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Their 'Manisfesto' seems to have a lot of interesting information about Marx, about whom I don't know enough to critique, nor even to assess if revcom's presentation is correct [edited to add:or complete; our shelved 'History of Western Civ' text says the Paris Commune shot prisoners too, though not as many as its opposition. Apparently, noted elsewhere, Marx praised the Paris Commune, and while 'times were different', I think groups today that are talking about the past ought to clarify these issues, rather than ignore them. Shooting prisoners, or abusing them, past or present- like Canada did with Afghan detainees- cannot be swept under the rug.]
In the paragraph on technology and primitive cultures, it is true that technology would change the way those societies functioned, however I'm not sure it's accurate to say human will has nothing to do with social function- for example, in the midst of technological change, Indigenous and other cultures, like local organic food-producing neighbourhoods, seek to retain elements which are particularly important today, in providing healthy, respectful relationships with Earth and humans.
The paragraphs on Lenin and Stalin are biased, and ignore the massacres, rapes, tortures, deportations, starvation, attempted genocide, pogroms, and other abuses of the Cheka, secret police, and powers of the Soviet Union. Evidence is provided at babble, and many other sources, and in the experience of the families of survivors.
It really would be easier to read/ learn about the useful elements of Marx's contribution to thought with those who are clear to critique abusive behaviour.
By that measure, Leninism might be considered as a desperate response to the 1 percenters of that era. Reactionaries come in all flavours you know.
thanks, I've edited that post.
When 'Jihad' or 'McCrusade' or 'Zionism' or 'Nazi-ism', or 'whatever-ism' kills ordinary civilians it is like Lenin and Stalin who murdered and tortured the poorest, the peasants, the 99 percent.
Marx died before the Russian Revolution and the atrocities were committed by Stalin and Lenin. The anarchists of Marx's era predicted his ideas, in the hands of the wrong people, would lead to a police state. My namesake's large funeral procession marching under the black flag not the red likely set the wheels in motion to start the repression in Kronstad two weeks later.
European fascists were the most efficient killers of the last century. They and their corporate-sponsored military machine were supposed to march into Russia and takeover Asia while slaightering nferior Russians, slavs and non-slavs willy nilly, "Father Stalin" included. Uncle Joe's crime against the European financial oligarchy was that he prepared for war in secret, and most probably violated basic human rights in doing what Nazi German did openly in violating the Versailles treaty. Both used slaves and both in supposed secrecy from the rest of the world. I don't believe the western democracies were unaware of Hitler's crimes early on. They knew. The rounding-up and murdering of leftists, union leaders and then Jews was an open secret early in the war sometimes referred to as western aggression against the Russian revolution part II.
The Romanovs were not surprised by the October revolution. They'd put down popular people's rebellions at the turn of the century. The writing was on the wall for the Tsar, and Russian elites chose to carry on oppressing Russians and waging insane wars for resource grabs against Nicholas' cousin in Germany all the while. Good riddance. Stalin's show trials have been surpassed in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and Guantanamo. Historians agree that political purges are the end result of regime changes throughout history. There will always be elites and their hangers on who will insist on going not quietly but with a fight and arrogance right to the last.
Before, during and after Marx's life in the 1800's, people in Ukraine worked against oppressive occupiers of many stripes. My understanding is that anarchists assassinated members of the Moscow Central Council, unleashing repression by powers of the Soviet Union, which fell for the most part, yet again, on ordinary civilians and peasants.
Ordinary people in Ukraine experienced centuries of oppressive rule, and suffered the brunt of WW1, with more casualties in fact than those of the West.
Lenin and Trotsky basically usurped a popular uprising which had been centuries in the making. There was a great diversity of parties in Ukraine working together through the Central Rada to effect democratic change, their efforts ruined by the Provisional Russian Government (statement of Ukrainian Central Rada (Council) June 10, 1917, from "The War and Ukrainian Democracy")and again by Leninists. Violent anarchists made things worse.
In eastern Ukraine anarchists fought against Ukrainians who were trying at the same time to oppose the atrocities of western-backed forces, and Lenin's forces, against Ukrainian civilians. Anarchists helped Lenin win.
Recent anarchist websites I've seen, posted during the G20 events, thankfully were clear to say they did not agree with the behaviour of all anarchists in the past. Babblers ought to be clear too.
Lenin started off his tour of duty massacring Ukrainians in Kyiv, then allowed his underlings to slaughter, torture, rape civilians who were perceived to be 'counter-revolutionaries'. Stalin was responsible for the murder by famine of ten to fourteen million people, along with other atrocities. Soviet KGB continued to terrorize civilians, even after later leaders began to give Ukrainians some cultural rights, like letting Ukrainian language exist. There are still cultural issues, and the USSR's Chernobyl imposition on Ukraine still has to be made safe. Sanitation, healthcare, economic control by Russia or Europe are still problems...
Hitler was a genocidal war criminal, killing millions, who usurped desolation of ordinary Germans, (and others), suffering under the Versailles Treaty, which demanded killing financial reparations for the profits of bankers on the backs of the poor. Just like bankers are demanding of ordinary Europeans and civilians in other countries now.
from the June 10th, 1917 statement:
"Every village, every county, every council, whether departmental or regional which stands for the interests of the Ukrainian people must have the closest possible connection with the Central Rada (Council)...In cities and those places where the Ukrainian population lives intermingled with other national groups, we enjoin our citizens immediately to come to an understanding and agreement with the democracy of those nationalities, and together with them to begin preparing a new, normal way of life."
from Nov.7, 1917;
"To employ all means for the purpose of strengthening and developing the rights of local self-governments, which are the organs of the immediately subordinate administrative governments...
"...freedom of speech, of the press, of religion, of assembly, of association, of strikes, freedom of the person and domicile, right and power to use local language in connection with all establishments..."
from law approved on Jan. 9, 1918 by the Ukrainian Parliament (Centralna Rada),
The U.P.R. from its own receipts would set aside sums for each National Union, wherein:
National minorities of the Ukrainian Republic could set up National Unions each with a National Assembly elected by members of said Unions with the following conditions:
"The Constituent National Assembly is composed of members elected by universal suffrage, equal, direct and secret, with application of the principle of proportional representation for all sexes and creeds. "
In each Union is also a Rada (Council) "which is elected by the National Assembly and responsible to it."
[edited to add: today where issues of 'nationality' are a problem, this recognition of equality could be useful, and/or representation could be based on provinces, localities, areas of work, common concerns, 'occupy' gatherings...]
I didn't think we're striving here toward pure anarchist thought, to the extent that we need to draw up our denouncements lest people become confused or fearful of where we're going with it. Ditto for Bolshevism. Perhaps a reading of the biography of Nestor Makhno might help to clarify the behavior of some anarchist societies and their circumstances.
I've read some of the biography of Nestor Makhno, he fought those who were simultaneously trying to stop atrocities of reactionary 'whites' and reactionary 'reds'.
"I didn't think we're striving here toward pure anarchist thought, to the extent that we need to draw up our denouncements lest people become confused or fearful of where we're going with it. Ditto for Bolshevism. "
I agree we're not striving for ideologies here, however it is important that self-described anarchists, bolsheviks, and westerners today clarify they don't agree with atrocities of any names/leaders previous.
As far as westerners go, I think we've been clear over the past number of years on the board that we don't agree with atrocities that our leaders have implicated themselves in. As tracking down for an opinion one way or another the supposed anarchists and bolsheviks hereabouts who fashion themselves after historical entities that have committed atrocities, good luck with rooting them out.
Just thought of a (not brilliant, but whatever) protest slogan: "Bomb NATO, Not Nations"
Anyway, closing for length.