babble is rabble.ca's discussion board but it's much more than that: it's an online community for folks who just won't shut up. It's a place to tell each other — and the world — what's up with our work and campaigns.
Toronto Catholic board to debate if religion trumps rights of gay students
I doubt we've heard the last of this. The Catholic school boards can take the case to court and they stand a good chance of winning.
A key precedent here with many common factors is the case of Trinity Western University v. British Columbia College of Teachers about a decade ago. Because TWU expressly taught that homosexuality was sinful (etc.), its teacher education graduates were not certified by the BC College of Teachers because of the discriminatory nature of the school's teachings. The lower courts ruled in favour of the BCCT decision but the Supreme Court of Canada ruled in favour of Trinity Western and said that the religious freedom charter rights overruled the human rights issue of the school's anti-gay beliefs.
The Catholic Church will lose - either in court, or in the acceleration of the abolition of their apartheid school system. Either way, the dustbin of history is their next stop.
Anna Maria Tremonti hosted a segment on The Current today where they repeatedly made the assertion that "Only Ontario fully funds Roman Catholic Schools in Canada". [The quoted phrasing is lifted directly from capsule description of the piece on the program's home page (although it doesn't appear at the permalink above)]
I think it is yet another case of Central Canadian Overlord syndrome... I wrote to complain.
me wrote:
Listening to the reports on the naming of Gay/Straight Alliances in Catholic schools in Ontario, I was struck by the repeated assertion that "Only Ontario fully funds Roman Catholic Schools in Canada" (the words are taken from your website's capsule description of the segment). I question the accuracy of the assertion.
Alberta and Saskatchewan (as well as Ontario) have publicly funded Catholic school boards and schools and both do so within the same constitutional framework as Ontario (Section 93 of the Constitution Act). I have no experience of the system in Saskatchewan, but here in Alberta there is no special tuition, no distinct levy or fees to have one's child attend a school operated by any of the Catholic boards. They are publicly and fully funded by operating grants from the provincial government (roughly 28% of the money coming from Education Property Taxes, the remainder from general revenues). At present, almost one quarter (22.3%) of Alberta school children are being educated by the various Catholic school boards and all of them are receiving an education that is publicly funded.
There may be a distinction between Ontario and Alberta insofar as there are geographical areas in Alberta that are do are not within the jurisdiction of any of the Catholic boards, but (and it is a big but) the mechanisms are in place to allow for such school boards to be created through a citizen initiated process in any of these areas. In terms of population, the overwhelming majority of Albertans have access to a publicly and fully funded Catholic system.
P.S. Philosophically I am opposed to the provisions of section 93, I believe they have outlived their original purpose and confer an unwarranted privilege on a single group. My motivation in writing is totally about what I consider to be a misleading description of the facts on the ground. At the very least, the assertion that "only Ontario FULLY funds" needs a further explanation.
We just got a very strange flyer in the post today which I assume (because they don't come right out and say it) is the province saying they want to cut public school funding and increase it for the Catholic system. There will be hearings in the fall.
They seem to be implying that teachers' wages are to blame - without actually saying it, of course.
The Student President at Crandall University is distancing himself from a policy that bans the hiring of gay staff members. Ian Pelkey said he's received an overwhelming number of calls from students who agree that the personal lives of their professors shouldn't affect the hiring process.
"Just because we choose to go to Crandall doesn't mean we agree with all the policies," he said. "A lot of people weren't even aware that this was a policy."
The rule in question is part of the school's Moral Code. It states staff must "be sexually pure, reserving sexual intimacy for within a traditional marriage between one man and one woman."
Pelkey said he's being urged by students and some staff to represent their views, as the policy is making headlines.
Ontario's anti-bullying bill, also known as Bill 13 or the Accepting Schools Act, passed through the legislature just before noon today by a margin of 65-36. Only the Progressive Conservatives voted against the legislation.
Catholic educators and church leaders oppose the bill because it requires schools to allow students to call anti-homophobia clubs gay-straight alliances if they wish.
Defund the catholic schools. Teaching homophobia is not acceptable especially when done with public funds.
They don't teach homophobia.
I'm Catholic, and I don't agree with the Church's homophobia. And I don't usually agree with right wing think tankery. However, what about overall results? Why not lobby Catholics to consider 21st century human rights and abandoning their homophobia?
Defund the catholic schools. Teaching homophobia is not acceptable especially when done with public funds.
They don't teach homophobia.
I'm Catholic, and I don't agree with the Church's homophobia. And I don't usually agree with right wing think tankery. However, what about overall results? Why not lobby Catholics to consider 21st century human rights and abandoning their homophobia?
Defund the catholic schools. Teaching homophobia is not acceptable especially when done with public funds.
They don't teach homophobia.
I'm Catholic, and I don't agree with the Church's homophobia. And I don't usually agree with right wing think tankery. However, what about overall results? Why not lobby Catholics to consider 21st century human rights and abandoning their homophobia?
I'm Catholic, I'm Bi, and I also don't agree with the RCC's stand on homosexuality. That being said, it is something that needs to be adressed from within. It is NOT something that should be forced by the government. The School Board is NOT saying that anti bullying clubs can not be formed. I agree with the School Boards stand. There is no reason to have a club specifically targeting gays. I was bullied all the way through junior high in the PUBLIC school system. I can tell you right now, joining a club that was specific to gays would have been the last thing I did.
Defund the catholic schools. Teaching homophobia is not acceptable especially when done with public funds.
They don't teach homophobia.
I'm Catholic, and I don't agree with the Church's homophobia. And I don't usually agree with right wing think tankery. However, what about overall results? Why not lobby Catholics to consider 21st century human rights and abandoning their homophobia?
Defund the catholic schools. Teaching homophobia is not acceptable especially when done with public funds.
They don't teach homophobia.
I'm Catholic, and I don't agree with the Church's homophobia. And I don't usually agree with right wing think tankery. However, what about overall results? Why not lobby Catholics to consider 21st century human rights and abandoning their homophobia?
In Alberta the Catholic schools cherry pick students. Their scores SHOULD be better given that dynamic.
That is bull and a lie. They do not.
I have been a teacher and now an administrator since the 1970's. A court ruling determined that a student was catholic if he/she said he was catholic yet catholic schools still selectively ask for baptismal cerificates to disallow students. They also do not have sufficent services for certain categories of special needs. The one that is most critically short is BD sites. This of course forces catholic parents to seek these services in the public system. Yeah, they cherry pick. I work with that reality on a daily basis.
I have been a teacher and now an administrator since the 1970's. A court ruling determined that a student was catholic if he/she said he was catholic yet catholic schools still selectively ask for baptismal cerificates to disallow students. They also do not have sufficent services for certain categories of special needs. The one that is most critically short is BD sites. This of course forces catholic parents to seek these services in the public system. Yeah, they cherry pick. I work with that reality on a daily basis.
Where? My boys go to Catholic School here in Calgary. The schools have MANY non Catholics. I would say that you do NOT teach here in Alberta as you don't appear to know what you are talking about.
I have been a teacher and now an administrator since the 1970's. A court ruling determined that a student was catholic if he/she said he was catholic yet catholic schools still selectively ask for baptismal cerificates to disallow students. They also do not have sufficent services for certain categories of special needs. The one that is most critically short is BD sites. This of course forces catholic parents to seek these services in the public system. Yeah, they cherry pick. I work with that reality on a daily basis.
Where? My boys go to Catholic School here in Calgary. The schools have MANY non Catholics. I would say that you do NOT teach here in Alberta as you don't appear to know what you are talking about.
Uhhh, actually that was my point. Your son's school has many non-catholics but have they accepted every catholic? Which non-catholics have they accepted?
Gerryhurt - welcome to babble - and why are you attacking people one second after putting your foot in the door?
Might as well go after me. I believe that Catholic schools should be defunded AND that they should not be allowed to discriminate in any way against LGBTQ persons or lifestyles - including denial of students' rights to form gay-straight alliances should they so choose.
I have been a teacher and now an administrator since the 1970's. A court ruling determined that a student was catholic if he/she said he was catholic yet catholic schools still selectively ask for baptismal cerificates to disallow students. They also do not have sufficent services for certain categories of special needs. The one that is most critically short is BD sites. This of course forces catholic parents to seek these services in the public system. Yeah, they cherry pick. I work with that reality on a daily basis.
Where? My boys go to Catholic School here in Calgary. The schools have MANY non Catholics. I would say that you do NOT teach here in Alberta as you don't appear to know what you are talking about.
Uhhh, actually that was my point. Your son's school has many non-catholics but have they accepted every catholic? Which non-catholics have they accepted?
Hmmm.... if that was the case, really don't know why they excepted my boys. Neither excelled academically and the youngest is ADD and required to be coded, extra help, special program. So, again I say that you are full of it with your unfounded accusations.
Gerryhurt - welcome to babble - and why are you attacking people one second after putting your foot in the door?
Might as well go after me. I believe that Catholic schools should be defunded AND that they should not be allowed to discriminate in any way against LGBTQ persons or lifestyles - including denial of students' rights to form gay-straight alliances should they so choose.
Or if you are going to fund religious schools how about a school for Druids?
Gerryhurt - welcome to babble - and why are you attacking people one second after putting your foot in the door?
Might as well go after me. I believe that Catholic schools should be defunded AND that they should not be allowed to discriminate in any way against LGBTQ persons or lifestyles - including denial of students' rights to form gay-straight alliances should they so choose.
Yes, I've already picked up on the fact that to belong here you have to follow the crowd and not make any waves. Dissent from the party line is not tolerated. Got that.
Gerryhurt - welcome to babble - and why are you attacking people one second after putting your foot in the door?
Might as well go after me. I believe that Catholic schools should be defunded AND that they should not be allowed to discriminate in any way against LGBTQ persons or lifestyles - including denial of students' rights to form gay-straight alliances should they so choose.
Or if you are going to fund religious schools how about a school for Druids?
I'd be ok with that - except that my kids don't look Druish.
I doubt we've heard the last of this. The Catholic school boards can take the case to court and they stand a good chance of winning.
A key precedent here with many common factors is the case of Trinity Western University v. British Columbia College of Teachers about a decade ago. Because TWU expressly taught that homosexuality was sinful (etc.), its teacher education graduates were not certified by the BC College of Teachers because of the discriminatory nature of the school's teachings. The lower courts ruled in favour of the BCCT decision but the Supreme Court of Canada ruled in favour of Trinity Western and said that the religious freedom charter rights overruled the human rights issue of the school's anti-gay beliefs.
The decision can be read in full here: http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/scc/doc/2001/2001scc31/2001scc31.html
It was not unanimous, and Justice L’Heureux‑Dubé's dissenting opinion is also of interest.
So we may see an Ontario reprise. The negative publicity ensuing could help erode support for funding Catholic schools with tax dollars.
We discussed this case at some length above.
The Catholic Church will lose - either in court, or in the acceleration of the abolition of their apartheid school system. Either way, the dustbin of history is their next stop.
Anna Maria Tremonti hosted a segment on The Current today where they repeatedly made the assertion that "Only Ontario fully funds Roman Catholic Schools in Canada". [The quoted phrasing is lifted directly from capsule description of the piece on the program's home page (although it doesn't appear at the permalink above)]
I think it is yet another case of Central Canadian Overlord syndrome... I wrote to complain.
We just got a very strange flyer in the post today which I assume (because they don't come right out and say it) is the province saying they want to cut public school funding and increase it for the Catholic system. There will be hearings in the fall.
They seem to be implying that teachers' wages are to blame - without actually saying it, of course.
Meanwhile in New Brunswick:
The Student President at Crandall University is distancing himself from a policy that bans the hiring of gay staff members. Ian Pelkey said he's received an overwhelming number of calls from students who agree that the personal lives of their professors shouldn't affect the hiring process.
"Just because we choose to go to Crandall doesn't mean we agree with all the policies," he said. "A lot of people weren't even aware that this was a policy."
The rule in question is part of the school's Moral Code. It states staff must "be sexually pure, reserving sexual intimacy for within a traditional marriage between one man and one woman."
Pelkey said he's being urged by students and some staff to represent their views, as the policy is making headlines.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/story/2012/06/01/nb-crandall...Ontario's anti-bullying bill, also known as Bill 13 or the Accepting Schools Act, passed through the legislature just before noon today by a margin of 65-36. Only the Progressive Conservatives voted against the legislation.
Catholic educators and church leaders oppose the bill because it requires schools to allow students to call anti-homophobia clubs gay-straight alliances if they wish.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/story/2012/06/05/ontario-anti-bully...
And they still call themselves "Progressive"? At least Harper is a bit more honest.
I once tried to reserve some sexual intimacy within a traditional marriage between one man and one woman, but they turned me down.
Which hotel were you booking with?
The Share-a-ton.
Obviously you forgot about the weight restrictions.
Yeah, well at least they put me on a weight list.
I have always thought you had a pronounced list.
Thick joke.
They don't teach homophobia.
I'm Catholic, and I don't agree with the Church's homophobia. And I don't usually agree with right wing think tankery. However, what about overall results? Why not lobby Catholics to consider 21st century human rights and abandoning their homophobia?
Catholic schools' test scores often better than public schools: C.D. Howe report
In Alberta the Catholic schools cherry pick students. Their scores SHOULD be better given that dynamic.
I'm Catholic, I'm Bi, and I also don't agree with the RCC's stand on homosexuality. That being said, it is something that needs to be adressed from within. It is NOT something that should be forced by the government. The School Board is NOT saying that anti bullying clubs can not be formed. I agree with the School Boards stand. There is no reason to have a club specifically targeting gays. I was bullied all the way through junior high in the PUBLIC school system. I can tell you right now, joining a club that was specific to gays would have been the last thing I did.
That is bull and a lie. They do not.
Fortunately, no one is being forced to join these clubs.
I have been a teacher and now an administrator since the 1970's. A court ruling determined that a student was catholic if he/she said he was catholic yet catholic schools still selectively ask for baptismal cerificates to disallow students. They also do not have sufficent services for certain categories of special needs. The one that is most critically short is BD sites. This of course forces catholic parents to seek these services in the public system. Yeah, they cherry pick. I work with that reality on a daily basis.
Where? My boys go to Catholic School here in Calgary. The schools have MANY non Catholics. I would say that you do NOT teach here in Alberta as you don't appear to know what you are talking about.
Uhhh, actually that was my point. Your son's school has many non-catholics but have they accepted every catholic? Which non-catholics have they accepted?
Gerryhurt - welcome to babble - and why are you attacking people one second after putting your foot in the door?
Might as well go after me. I believe that Catholic schools should be defunded AND that they should not be allowed to discriminate in any way against LGBTQ persons or lifestyles - including denial of students' rights to form gay-straight alliances should they so choose.
Hmmm.... if that was the case, really don't know why they excepted my boys. Neither excelled academically and the youngest is ADD and required to be coded, extra help, special program. So, again I say that you are full of it with your unfounded accusations.
Or if you are going to fund religious schools how about a school for Druids?
Yes, I've already picked up on the fact that to belong here you have to follow the crowd and not make any waves. Dissent from the party line is not tolerated. Got that.
Gerry-basic point. Catholic schools can and do exclude students. Public schools can not.
I'd be ok with that - except that my kids don't look Druish.
Prove it. Anybody can make unfounded accusations. Catholic Schools take all Catholics, and they also take Non Catholics.