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It is precisely because I don't agree with the idea that the Cons and Liberals are the same that I do not support this idea at all.
The difference may sound minor but it is huge. The Liberals have a very different electoral constituency. They have been the status quo party much of their history. They have also courted moderately socially minded people and have for decades delivered little substance and a lot of puffery on those issues but enough substance and puffery to occupy enough space on the political spectrum to make it impossible for the NDP to engage. As such they have done more for big business than the Cons for many years. The Conservatives on the other hand are more Reform party than establishment. They are a right wing reactionary party that compromises just enough to stay in power. The Liberals and Conservatives represent and answer to two different sets of people so while their policies may be in many respects similar it is a result of the Liberals trying to do enough progressive sounding things to keep their people happy and the Conservatives trying to not be so extreme as to alienate too many in the centre while throwing enough "red meat" as they call it to their supporters. These differences do show up in policy even as both court the centre at election. The Conservatives are as right wing as they can possibly get away with while the Liberals tend to the status quo trying to keep things calmly on a pro-business course.
Any revival of the Liberal party would create serious risk of confusion among voters who ascribe qualities to the "brand" that are not well founded. To promote the Liberals as a saviour of Canada in this way is to deny the incredible power of impressions which make a form of reality in politics masking the real need to have a pro-people policy agenda.
I have for some time here noted that the Liberals could in fact do this and I think that is what they will do if they are to survive, but I would not think that this is either a safe road to go down now one we should applaud or encourage. I have warned about this because I think it is possible we could even be facing the Liberals as the main opponent in as short a time as the next election if things play out a certain way. That is, however, a very risky possibility. At best it would be an unwanted and confusing distraction at worst set the people up for a gigantic fraud should they actually elect them again.
If more sticks to Harper over the next couple years then the Liberals could be more electable than his party and a greater threat to the NDP. And the Liberals may deliver even worse than they have before having moved even further to the right.
I think this entire line of discussion is fed by the fantasy that those parties are that similar either intrinsically or in their political appeal. As much as we can be upset at both of them to fail to distinguish their differences is foolhardy and dangerous and allows them to dominate the spectrum. Each need to be called out for what they are. One is a status quo pro business establishment party posing to be progressive chasing a progressive vote and the other is a band of reactionary yahoos posing as a mainstream alternative. Those distinctions are enormous even if our assessment of their danger to Canada may be the same. The Liberals have earned their demise -- let them have it and let the country enjoy it.
In a few cases under NDP provincial governments - notably Manitoba and Ontario - the Liberals have found themselves in the unusual position of criticizing the NDP from the left after the latter slides to the right. While this has not been a universal phenomenon (e.g. in BC the Liberals *became* the right-wing coalition), I do want to see the Liberals stick around to keep the NDP honest and act as a barrier to keep the NDP from sliding too far away from where it should be. And in the event of a severe NDP collapse, the Liberals often end up being the last-ditch hope of progressives (e.g. McGuinty in post-Rae Harris Ontario, present situation notwithstanding).
It would be nice if the Greens take up that mantle instead, but first we need to actually see Greens in Canada consistently to the left of centre. At the moment they are all over the spectrum.
No surprise. The Liberals changed their rules to allow interim leader Bob Rae to run for the leadership of the Liberal Party.
if he wins then he'd lose and all 35 liberal mps but mostly ontario voters wont vote him cuz of 1990s i guess?
ontario goes to NDP than LIB. eh! lol!
The Liberals are polling under the NDP at the moment, but Mulcair has received far more press coverage than Rae. Back when Rae got the bulk of press coverage before Mulcair's coronation, the Libs were doing better than they are now. Also, Rae polls pretty well in Ontario, especially amongst older Ontarians. So, it could be interesting. Rae is a left-leaning Lib, so if there's too little difference between the NDP and the Libs, it'll be interesting to see whom the public chooses as the primary alternative to the Conservatives.
I think Rae will hang onto plenty of seats. He might not be an electrifying fresh face, but he is a known quantity. He's proved his Liberal credentials. He has some credibility with the half of the party that didn't like Michael Ignatieff. He knows Ontario. Beyond that, his French is decent, and so is his understanding of rural and working class populations. He can hold that sinking ship steady, and is opportunistic to capitalize on any mistakes that the NDP or Conservatives make.
I'm not saying Rae is strong. Just that the Liberal party has plenty of loyalists that don't hate Rae. Those loyalists might get scared away by whatever "star candidate" they decide to replace Rae with.
Either way, the NDP is going to have to fight for every vote.
Should be an interesting contest, as Martha Hall Findlay is intrested, as well as Marty Cauchon, Gerald Kennedy, and maybe David McGuinty, and certainly Dominic LeBlanc. I'd love to see Martha win because she really tears into Harper every chance she gets.
Bob was born in 1948. The Liberals will be decimated if they pick an old war horse to lead them into the next election. He keeps looking older and older and certainly will not be an effective poster boy for a revitalized party.
Go Bob Go is all I have to say.
"Hello my name is Bob and I've been a political hack since I was a young man. I've now had nearly 35 years at the job and still have no ideas only platitudes."
In response to the thread title (which I am willing to consider a question):
They could, as a party, auto-euthanize. Just fold up their tent and take their butts home (safely).
In the Toronto Danforth by-election Bob had Mao sized posters of himself overlooking the DVP, brought every Liberal MP and 'star' into the riding, did everything he could to keep his slow-witted candidate with the feather-lite resume out of the spotlight, and succeeded in moving the liberal vote total by 743 votes.
I actually really hope the Liberals make Rae their permanent leader. He has been their leader for the last year and they are stuck at 18% and his approval numbers suck. Rae is a known quantity and Canadians do not like what they see. There is no reason to believe that Rae will suddenly become anymore popular as permanent leader than he is now as interim leader. He can trey to move his party to the left but if the Liberals are rediuced to Bob Rae weakly shouting "me too" to everything Tom Mulcair says - then anti-Harper Canadians will have to choose between the NDP with 103 seats led by a strong dynamic leader who has a good record as a provincial cabinet minister or the Liberals with 34 seats led by a senior citizen whose biggest claim to fame is having driven Ontario into the ground.
Mulcair would chew Rae up and spit him out!
Well for starters Kinsella, who has been quite effective as a Liberal election campaigner in the past, thinks Rae will be a disaster. Only Liberals can forgive Bob Rae’s original sinhttp://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/second-reading/only-liberal...
I'm on board with anything that will end the Reform Party's reign.
The Liberals will be in the wilderness for a couple elections. to rebuild then they willl return.. .
I wanna former Liberal switch to vote NDP in 2015 so they can get a form govt, they should know that NDP is the opposition and give them chance to get govt like first time, why not Canada need change? just like Layton's quote "We can change" etc. Liberal supporters should realize it. I just say Liberal is old story and same old etc. no offence
The Reform/Alliance faction, within the CPC, seems to be demonstrating signs of dissatisfaction with sitting on their hands in caucus (particularly those Western and rural Ontario MPs whose constituents are becoming increasingly disaffected by the lack of resolve (betrayal) on social issues, while the fact of the PMO attachment to Bay St., and its hollowing out of the Canadian resources sector (Potash Corp. notwithstanding) leaves true Tories, Blue or Red (who are economic nationalists by tradition) alienated from power. The NDP/NPD Quebec caucus may yet experience similar impatience from their constituents, if Quebec MPs fail to address the social implosion that's occurring nightly on the streets of Montreal. Is a 'Bloc Solidaire' in the offing? I believe that Canada is too politically and economically regionalized for a single federal party to govern amongst competing national interests. A Liberal/ PC Tory coalition is workable, I think. It's the NDP, Bloc Solidaire, and Reform/Alliance faction that might be rendered dysfunctional.
That wasn't written by Kinsella, it was written by Adam Goldenberg. Goldenberg was a speechwriter for Ignatieff, so this may provide a clue as to why he's not a big Rae fan.
Kinsella ran the last Liberal campaign.
He's fucked.
And of course, the most vivid recent demonstration of this phenomenon was in the UK: the Lib Dems' Charles Kennedy vs Tony Blair and New Labour...
The Lib Dems were to the left of Labour on one issue and one issue only - the invasion of Iraq...of course now the Lib Dems are propping up David Cameron and the Tories and their extreme rightwing government and getting NOTHING in returnm for it.
Exactly! It's time for Canadians to vote strategically for the NDP if we want to stop the right wing Harpers.
I don't like strategic voting -- however there is no compelling reason to vote Liberal since they have nothing to offer.
I think the Liberals will end up choosing Rae. The debates between Rae, Harper and Mulcair could be quite entertaining.
Are the Libs going to pick Trudeau. The Huff Po has an article today speculating his running. If he is as inept as is being asserted on these threads, why does his name keep coming back up? I have to admit, the fact that his last name is Trudeau worries me. Should it?
Trudeau may run some time around 2020. I don't think he'll take a shot at it this time around. The Libs need to find away to avoid a coronation and have a race a bit akin to the recent NDP race. Of course, I look forward to an endless stream of Liberal leadership race threads.
by 2020, will Trudeau have anything to run FOR?
Arthur, no u dont need worry because he could almost lose his seat in last election NPD almost beat him
Papineau in 2008 Lib got 41% and NPD 9% and 2011 he got only 38% and NPD 28% (+20 pp)
next election he would likely lose
The same thing could have been asked of the NDP in 1993.
Not really. All that happened with the NDP was a fall from a strong third-place to a weak third-place(in the popular vote) showing.
Falling from Official Opposition to minor party status is entirely different. The Liberals in the U.K. NEVER recovered from that fall.
From leadnow.ca:
Era of the Red Tory is long gone
Harper's new enemy: conservatives
Leadnow is encouraging people to encourage at least 13 Conservatives to vote against the omnibus budget bill.
Could a "Liberal-Progressive" coalition help the process along? Give a place for non-goose-stepping Cons to go to?
Or why don't dissident Cons just break off and start their own little bloc? They could hold the balance of power.
I just want Harper stopped. Now.
One place to pressure Conservative MPs.