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Syria #6

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Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

"If Its Good For Al Qaeda, Can It Be Good For Us?" asks U.S. Politician

U.S. Confirms Syrian Bombings Were Carried Out By Al Qaeda "Opposition" ... But We're Still Fighting On Their Side

Al-Qa'eda is supporting the Syrian opposition.

So is the Muslim Brotherhood.

And Hamas.

"Al-Qa'eda" = Al-CIA'duh

And our vicious toadies in Ottawa just do as they are told by Warshington as usual. Same old Same old.


Fidel
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kropotkin1951 wrote:
Fidel maybe you missed the memo.  It doesn't matter what platform the NDP runs on they will be the subject of an all out filthy and negative disinformation campaign from all the MSM outlets.  IMO given that reality they might as well have the discussions on all the major issues because the MSM will damn them if they do and damn if they don't.
 

So you're saying the NDP should fall on their swords an side with the Russians and Syrians in the Middle East? Why? Do you like Harper that much? What can the NDP do about it anyway? 

 


NDPP
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NOT VOTE UNANIMOUSLY FOR NATO WAR AS LAST TIME!!


Fidel
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Okay I hope the NDP doesn't vote for WW III to get under way the Middle East, either. 

I hope the NDP is written up in the anals of history as having voted against the "battle of Armageddon."

Happy?

Prism, 1979 wrote:
Jerry and Linda in the whitehouse
President sleepin' in his shoes red phones ring in the blackout
Ain't got time to lose U-boats off New England
Enemy submarines from Boston to Miami
On a red alert, you better scramble all the F-15's

Armageddon carry me home
Armageddon carry me home


CDN_FORCES
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Joined: Nov 24 2011
This person has a truly horrible worldview.

Inside Syria’s shabiha death squads

LATTAKIA, SYRIA AND BEIRUT, LEBANON — As Syria descends into civil war, Abu Jaafar said he is ready to kill women and children to defend his friends, family and president.

“Sunni women are giving birth to babies who will fight us in years to come, so we have the right to fight anyone who can hurt us in the future,” said the Allawite militiaman, a member of the ancient offshoot of Shiite Islam to which Syrian President Bashar Assad and the powerbase of his regime belong.

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/1212059--inside-syria-s-shabih...


kropotkin1951
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Yes and Iraqi soldiers threw babies out of incubators and  Libyan troops were given Viagra and then engaged in gang rape. Bahrain citizens need the steady hand of the Saudi troops do restore order.

Any other crap article you can share with us. I notice that the "reporters" are not even in Syria.  Like most of the Western media they sit in hotel rooms in other Middle East countries away from the action and rehash the spin they are fed by the multitude of foreign intelligence agencies actively working in the region.

This piece is a disgusting attempt at guilt by association.  All you need to know is which church someone prays at to condemn them as terrorists. This type of drivel is the standard fair in the lead up to NATO opening a new front in its ongoing thrust to rule the world.

NATO is the worlds largest and most murderous criminal organization.  It drops more bombs on civilians than all the "evil dictators" in the world combined.  How many wars does it take to make the world save for oil companies? I'll bet you have talking points to vilify all the other countries on the NATO list for future regime change. 

Pax Americana is a dictatorship of the 1%. The Exceptional Empire has lackeys in the military, police and security apparatus in countries all over the world. Paid killers for  the oligarchy that rules the world are what NATO troops are.  I don't understand people who kill for a living but many seem really good at self justification of their moral failings.  "Sure  I might be a murderous NATO soldier but the other guy is worse," leaves me cold since I have to foot the bill for the destruction that is wrought in the name of "democracy." 

 


CDN_FORCES
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kropotkin1951 wrote:

NATO is the worlds largest and most murderous criminal organization.  It drops more bombs on civilians than all the "evil dictators" in the world combined.  How many wars does it take to make the world save for oil companies?

 

Hardly. NATO has procedures to avoid bombing civilians, whereas certain countries make a point to do so in order to inflict collective punishment.


Catchfire
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Joined: Apr 16 2003

Hi CDN_FORCES, I'm reminding you that babble has an anti-imperialist mandate. Justifying killing civilians because the bomber promises to try really hard not to kill them falls rather outside its perimeter. For that matter, so does mocking people who "stay at home" rather than go kill people for freedom.

If you want to take NATO's side in this conflict, you need to find other rhetoric.


kropotkin1951
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CDN_FORCES wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

NATO is the worlds largest and most murderous criminal organization.  It drops more bombs on civilians than all the "evil dictators" in the world combined.  How many wars does it take to make the world save for oil companies?

Hardly. NATO has procedures to avoid bombing civilians, whereas certain countries make a point to do so in order to inflict collective punishment.

Thank you for your justification for the bombings.  I knew you had it in you.

NATO's procedures? Do you mean like counting ALL males of military age as combatants?  Doesn't matter who they are any military aged male is not considered civilian by the NATO killing machine.  As well the policy is to not include as civilians anyone who was with the person targeted by NATO's killing machine.  If you are the wife or child of a freedom fighter you too are not a civilian when murdered.  That is indeed execution for the crime of guilt by association.  If your father is fighting an occupying enemy then you as a child are also guilty.  If you are a cousin or brother and you go to a wedding and a targeted person is also attended then you too are not a civilian.

Yup great procedures to obfuscate.  Just call everyone you kill an enemy and voila almost no civilian causalities.

 


CDN_FORCES
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No one justified killing civilians, except the Alawi guy in the Star story.


Fidel
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Not all of their procedures are widely publicized for sure.

Our corrupt stoogeaucracies can't afford full blown military occupations Vietnam-style anymore. The future of fascism is with blitzkriegs and robotic warfare/terrorism.


kropotkin1951
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CDN_FORCES wrote:

No one justified killing civilians, except the Alawi guy in the Star story.

Don't trust those Alawi is your not to subtle message and it a disgusting one.  Dehumanizing the "enemy" is the first priority of any propaganda spewed out on behalf of an empire about to inflict more pain and suffering on millions of people. Again as in all the recent NATO invasions and incursions into other nation's sovereign affairs the reason is to protect the people from themselves. The Syrian government has been a brutal dictatorship and some of the people in the streets are democracy seekers.  However those people are vastly out numbered by thugs armed by NATO countries and their allies like Saudi Arabia and Israel. 

Both the Libyan and Syrian dictators lost most of their usefulness to the NATO machine when NATO built its own gulags and are using their own torturers instead of out sourcing that task. I look at Afghanistan, Iraq and Somalia and see broken countries where the people have no peace or security and that is certainly going to be the same thing in Syria if NATO gets its way.  How many Iraqi's would the Baathist's in Iraq have murdered in a decade. A few thousand a year at most seemed to be what they required to keep the country under their thumbs.  That outrageous body count though pales in comparison to the actual death and destruction inflicted on the population to "free" them.  Millions displaced, hundreds of thousands killed. The destruction of Fallujah and the ongoing health problems from the illegal and immoral ordinance used on a population trapped in a city as it was reduced to rubble.  All serious observers agree that there is sign of a secular democracy breaking out any time in the near future and the actual safety for civilians to live and work in peace is far worse than under the brutal dictator.  Under totalitarian governments  you only have to mind your tongue and keep your head down, you know like a recruit into the military.  In Iraq it is still the case that no one is really safe on the streets and gangs of thugs roam at will.

However it is worth noting that in those areas of the world the civilians may not have peace and security but the oil facilities are all well guarded and working just fine.  You may not want to risk your live in the streets of Tripoli unless you belong to a militia but the oil is flowing freely.

The Syrian people have more to fear from the evil empire with its unquenchable thirst for oil than from their own petty dictators.

 


CDN_FORCES
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kropotkin1951 wrote:

 

The Syrian people have more to fear from the evil empire with its unquenchable thirst for oil than from their own petty dictators.

 

 

Cute statement, but factually incorrect. I doubt that Mr Assad is looking after the interests of all the Syrian people. But don't take my word for it, just listen to the UN Observers who are in country witnessing some very horrible atrocities. In the interest of fairness, the Syrian Army is also suffering from attacks by the armed opposition, but from what's been published by the UN the Army is responsible for the vast majority of killings.

The comment about oil is always brought out. The reality is that if the US wanted Syria's oil they could just buy it. But they can't because of the sanctions imposed by the UN, and those sanctions were put in place after Assad decided to repress the "Arab Spring" using shells and bombs. But it would be a huge stretch to claim that any war against Syria (which won't happen by the way) would be about getting access to their oil. US oil production has climbed steadily over the past 5 years, and the ME now accounts for significantly less of their imports. It would be about stopping the killing of civilians. But like I said, there won't be a Libyian-style war in Syria, so Assad will probably get his way and just sell oil to China or on the black market.

 


kropotkin1951
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Actually it is factually correct and I don't find anything about our evil empire's murderous behavior to be cute. 

I also doubt Assad is looking after the interests of all the people. Who the fuck said he was?  That's the best you got for a rationale debate? The UN reports are not neutral they are biased. I can imagine what would happen in the streets of Montreal if people started bombing police stations and launching armed attacks against vital infrastructure. I am sure our police and military would not respond with excessive force. [sarcasm alert]

This is a civil war and the best that can be said for NATO is they are pouring gasoline on the blaze while screaming we saw the arsonist who lit this.


Fidel
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CDN_FORCES wrote:

The comment about oil is always brought out. The reality is that if the US wanted Syria's oil they could just buy it.

They don't want Syria's oil so much as Iranian oil. 

The Gladio Gang and blood for oil hounds want Iran's oil. And Syria is Iran's only ally in the region.

Moreover, Murder Incorporated has coveted Russia's natural resource wealth and meddling in that country's affairs since turn of the last century. Basically whichever country denies corporate America's access to natural resource wealth and-or cheap labour, they are considered part of the evol empire of darkness or whatever.


NDPP
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Pentagon Finishes Contingency Plan for Syrian Invasion

http://rt.com/usa/news/pentagon-syria-us-forces-923/

"...CNN's report confirms that the military has indeed drafted instructions that lay out the implementation of the no-fly zone. Additionally, officials say that a large number of US troops could soon be installed overseas to aid in the war.."


Fidel
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kropotkin1951 wrote:

CDN_FORCES wrote:

No one justified killing civilians, except the Alawi guy in the Star story.

Don't trust those Alawi is your not to subtle message and it a disgusting one.  Dehumanizing the "enemy" is the first priority of any propaganda spewed out on behalf of an empire about to inflict more pain and suffering on millions of people.

Allow me to bust in on this one. And I snipped-off what was an excellent post by you, kropotkin, because I wanted to expand on our previous exchange as to why the NDP hasn't contested any of the faulty lapdog newz media reporting since NATO-Qa'eda forces laid siege to Tripoli and are now working hand-in-glove to arm various "rebel groups" in Syria and using Turkey as a staging country to launch terrorist attacks against Assad's government troops and civilians. 

I'd just like to point out that like the events surrounding the infamous terrorist attacks on 9/11/01, the lapdog newz media are basically reporting whatever US Government and NATO countries instruct them to WRT Syria similarly. There is no fourth estate anymore. Lapdog newz media is a long-time organ of the state capitalist setup including NATO's ambitious push Eastward since the end the end of the cold war. 

It makes no sense to me that the NDP should shift gears now and challenge the official NATO-Gladio colder war version of events in Syria. The truth would necessitate pointing to the fact that US Government has colluded with righ wing religious fundamentalists, mujahideen, Al-Qa'eda and Qa'eda affiliated terrorists and mercenaries for hire from over 40 countries and dating back to 1980's Afghanistan, and 1990's Bosnia and Macedonia. How can the NDP begin to afford the time and effort and party resources to research this colder war issue and especially at a time when large numbers of even the left are still under the illusion that 9/11 was not an inside job to launch ten years of global warfiteering and imperialist maneuvering on the other side of the world?

I really don't believe this is what NDP delegates hired Mulcair to do. Like 9/11 truth, truth about Bosnia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and now Syria is simply too much for one oppostition party in Ottawa to take on. First things first we have a corrupt stoogeaucracy to clean out of in Ottawa. Like 9/11 truth is far too much for voters to focus on leading up to elections in 2015, so, too,  is this colder war maneuvering in the Middle East too much for the NDP to tackle. It would be political suicide. Eyes on the prize. And I think those who agree that 9/11 truth is too far gone down the rabbit hole to pursue politically, so is the current NATO agenda in Syria. Colder war events will unfold in the Middle East regardless of whether the NDP chooses to fall on their swords over Syria or not. Let's not make it easy for them to retain phony-majority power in Ottawa by 2015.  In Canada the real conspiracy is our obsolete electoral system. And if the NDP can overthrow our FPTP electoral regime, I think it would be significant for the left in general.


CDN_FORCES
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kropotkin1951 wrote:

Actually it is factually correct and I don't find anything about our evil empire's murderous behavior to be cute. 

I also doubt Assad is looking after the interests of all the people. Who the fuck said he was?  That's the best you got for a rationale debate? The UN reports are not neutral they are biased. I can imagine what would happen in the streets of Montreal if people started bombing police stations and launching armed attacks against vital infrastructure. I am sure our police and military would not respond with excessive force. [sarcasm alert]

This is a civil war and the best that can be said for NATO is they are pouring gasoline on the blaze while screaming we saw the arsonist who lit this.

People don't just wake one morning and decide it be jolly good fun to go "bombing police stations and launching armed attacks against vital infrastructure". They're pushed to it by heavy-handed government oppression. What you wrote makes it sound like the Syrian people are responsible for their current misfortune.


Fidel
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CDN_FORCES wrote:
People don't just wake one morning and decide it be jolly good fun to go "bombing police stations and launching armed attacks against vital infrastructure". They're pushed to it by heavy-handed government oppression. What you wrote makes it sound like the Syrian people are responsible for their current misfortune.
 

Yeah but what if Russia, China and Cuba were to start funding(and arming) a long list of right wing militias and other armed extremists in order to destabilize America similarly? What would happen is that those countries would soon be identified as having perpetrated acts of war against America. Similar occurs when Warshington funds legitimate political opposition groups around the world. That's crossing the line, too.


kropotkin1951
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CDN_FORCES wrote:

People don't just wake one morning and decide it be jolly good fun to go "bombing police stations and launching armed attacks against vital infrastructure". They're pushed to it by heavy-handed government oppression. What you wrote makes it sound like the Syrian people are responsible for their current misfortune.

Try sticking to what I write not what you think it sounds like.  Once again that style of argument belies the fact that you really have no facts.  NATO is once again engaged in regime change and the civilians are suffering and will suffer a whole lot more. Those are the facts full stop.

There was a reform process in place and the NATO backed terrorists refused to take part in it.  The voter turnout for the referendum on the proposed changes was higher than in Canadian federal elections and the new constitutional process was passed overwhelmingly. The brutal dictator agreed to a peaceful process to restrict his regimes power. NATO's response was fuck you we demand you leave.  The western backed terrorists bombed infrastructure in response to the people voting to go a peaceful route.

The imperialist bullshit you are spewing is dangerous to the health and safety of people all over the globe.. Your an advocate of murder and destruction and what the fuck that has to do with a progressive site is beyond me.


Fidel
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One of us is as a sponge for the pro war propaganda. And I'm pretty sure it isn't me or Kropotkin1951.


CDN_FORCES
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kropotkin1951 wrote:

CDN_FORCES wrote:

People don't just wake one morning and decide it be jolly good fun to go "bombing police stations and launching armed attacks against vital infrastructure". They're pushed to it by heavy-handed government oppression. What you wrote makes it sound like the Syrian people are responsible for their current misfortune.

Try sticking to what I write not what you think it sounds like.  Once again that style of argument belies the fact that you really have no facts.  NATO is once again engaged in regime change and the civilians are suffering and will suffer a whole lot more. Those are the facts full stop.

There was a reform process in place and the NATO backed terrorists refused to take part in it.  The voter turnout for the referendum on the proposed changes was higher than in Canadian federal elections and the new constitutional process was passed overwhelmingly. The brutal dictator agreed to a peaceful process to restrict his regimes power. NATO's response was fuck you we demand you leave.  The western backed terrorists bombed infrastructure in response to the people voting to go a peaceful route.

The imperialist bullshit you are spewing is dangerous to the health and safety of people all over the globe.. Your an advocate of murder and destruction and what the fuck that has to do with a progressive site is beyond me.

If you don't want me calling out your silly statements about mythical bombings at Montreal police stations and armed attacks against vital infrastructure, don't make them.

NATO isn't involved in regime change in Syria, and any civilian suffering is being caused by Assad's government. Those are the UN's facts by the way.

As for facts, everything I post here is factual and open source. And your timeline regarding Syria's current crisis is way off. K.A. as the UN special envoy came up with a peace plan that everyone agreed with, on paper at least. As soon as the UN monitors left Assad's forces resumed killing civilians.

My last point is that no one here (i.e. me) is supporting armed intervention in Syria, what you call imperialism. I've been very clear that that's not going to happen. Once Assad wins by killing a whole bunch of people I fully expect the usual suspects to come out of the woodwork bemoaning the fact that "The West" did nothing to help them - similar to Rwanda or South Sudan.


NDPP
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Russian Warning Shots  - by Thierry Meyssan

http://www.voltairenet.org/Russian-Warning-Shots

"...Any interpretation that what is currently happening in the Levant is the result of an internal dynamic of revolution/repression within Syria is not only false but a distortion of the real stakes involved...The Syrian crisis is first and foremost a further stage in the project of 'remodelling of the greater Middle East' a further attempt to destroy the 'Axis of Resistance' and the first 'war for gas' being played out.

What is actually at stake in Syria is not whether Bashar al Assad will be able to democratize the institutions he has inherited or whether the Wahhabist monarchies of the Gulf will succeed in destroying the last secular regime in the region and impose their sectarianism, but to determine the lines of separation between the emerging power blocks of NATO and the SCO (Shanghai Cooperation Council).

Some of our readers will be startled to read the preceding phrase. Indeed, the Western and Gulf media have been hammering the point day after day that President El Assad is a sectarian dictator working to the advantage of the Alawite minority, while the armed opposition to his authority is portrayed as the incarnation of democratic pluralism.

Just a glance at recent events is enough to belie this version..."

 

US Holds High Level Talks With Syrian Rebels Seeking Weapons in Washington

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/9334707/US-ho...

"A senior Free Syrian Army representative met in the past week at the US State Department with the US ambassador to Syria, Robert Ford and Frederick Huff, special coordinator for the Middle East, sources have confirmed. The rebel emissaries, armed with an iPad showing detailed plans on Google Earth identifying rebel positions and regime targets, have also met with senior members of the National Security Council, which advises President Obama on national security policy.

The move towards what was described as a 'Libya-lite' intervention in Syria is expected to gather force following the anticipated failure of the Annan peace plan and the meeting of the Syria Contact Group scheduled for June 30 in Geneva. 'The intervention will happen, it is not a question of 'if', but 'when'.."


quizzical
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CDN_FORCES wrote:
I fully expect the usual suspects to come out of the woodwork bemoaning the fact that "The West" did nothing to help them - similar to Rwanda or South Sudan.

couple quick questions...who are the "usual suspects"? and why are you labelling them as alleged criminals?


Fidel
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That's an insult to the ringmasters who played more of a hand in Rwanda than he cares to give them credit for.


howeird beale
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Fidel wrote:

Yeah but what if Russia,,, were to start funding to destabilize America similarly?

 

I remember when the USSR went out of business, they found entire warehouses in Russia full of nothing but unread copies of the Canadian Tribune.


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

They say the landscape resembles Canada except with fewer absentee corporate landlords siphoning-off the oil and gas and old growth forest to be made into luxurious toilet paper. And the logging roads better maintained in Canada.


Fidel
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CDN_FORCES wrote:
NATO isn't involved in regime change in Syria, and any civilian suffering is being caused by Assad's government. Those are the UN's facts by the way.

As for facts, everything I post here is factual and open source.

Anyone can see that this is another proxy war between the U.S.-led NATO countries and Russia and SCO countries supporting Syria. The countries funding and arming the "Free Syrian Army" are Saudi Arabia and Qatar, two undemocratic imperialist countries friendly with the Atlantic Alliance nations. There is no indication whatosoever that these imperialist countries intend to install a democratic government in Damascus. It's more likely that another regime friendly to Al-Qa'eda and Qa'eda affiliated terrorist groups would fill the power vacuum in Syria.

The truth is that most Syrians back the Assad government in Damascus. And it's likely that R2P "humanitarian" intervention in Syria could end up causing 100,000 deaths.


kropotkin1951
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CDN Forces I trust the UN on very few issues.  Its like saying the Greeks must be subjected to austerity because the World Bank and the IMF say it is good for them.  The UN has lost all credibility in this new century when it comes to international affairs.  The Duty to Protect is the antithesis of the idea that sovereign nations should not have their affairs interfered with by other countries. It leads to war mongers being able to say we had to or we would have been damned for inaction.  You effectively highlighted this dynamic in your post above.  The idea of war making as a good is immoral, illogical and either hypocritical or naive.  There can be no peace when there is war.  Starting wars always breaks the peace.  Going to war to bring peace is like fucking for virginity.

Sanctions like the ones being imposed that are designed to destroy an economy are in fact an act of war.  The arming of insurgents and provision of logistic and financial support as NATO and its allies are currently doing is a violation of international law. They are engaged in regime change and your efforts at obfuscating the truth are pathetic.  I wish that instead of firing environmental scientists our government would give people like you your pink slips and send you out to get a real job.


NDPP
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Joined: Dec 27 2008

US Attempting to Trigger Full Proxy War in Syria  - by Tony Cartalucci

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.ca/2012/06/us-attempting-to-trigger-full-p...

"...There is no turning back for the West, it has created a global cascade of destabilization, revealed its hand that it is aiming not only to overrun all of the Middle East, Central and Southeast Asia, but eventually Moscow and Beijing as well."


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