Chomsky -- Faurisson et al (again)

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Cueball Cueball's picture
Chomsky -- Faurisson et al (again)

 

Cueball Cueball's picture

quote:


If I'm not wrong, I believe he was referring to cross-cultural ignorance. He argues that the idea of Americans having no collective recolection of the numbers of dead civilians they left in Vietnam, is not an a priori indicator of American racism towards Vietnamese in the modern day. He clearly believes in gas chambers as he's said and written a billion times over, but his point is that people very often forget, distort or diminish the atrocities that they perform on other people, and that it represents the systemic problem of protecting one's self through selective memory, not of racism.

[url=http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=13&t=002504]O... Posted here by quart o' homomilk
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Coyote

Cueball wrote:

quote:

But Chomsky himself has stated that he would not have gone as far as he did in defending Faurissons right to publish, had he been more aware of the where Faurisson is coming from.

I'm aware of that. That's why I'm not outright condeming Chomsky, nor endorsing jpj's position. I said it was not his most shining moment, not a destruction of his reputation.

quote:

Chomsky is not all-seeing, and even your explanation of Chomsky's view indicates that his defence was based on theoretical premises regarding freedom of scholarship as you yourself has characterized it: "In an overarching sense, everything is up for debate and dissent."

And it is not the defense of this right for which I am critsizing Chomsky, it is for drifting into Faurisson's character and anti-Semitism or lack thereof, of which you have demonstrated he was not fully aware. Had he stuck solely to the Voltairian "defend to the death your right to say" that which is disagreeable, he would have been better off.

I think the criticisms of Chomsky's handling of this episode are fair game. I am [i]not[/i] interested in a witch-hunt, nor in a smearing of his reputation. And I think I said as much in the previous thread.

Coyote

By the way, way to get the last word in on the previous thread!

[img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img]

Cueball Cueball's picture

I have special powers.

Cueball Cueball's picture

But then again infallibility is not a prerequisite for moral rectitude.

I am talking about Chomsky not myself. [img]tongue.gif" border="0[/img]

Coyote

Indeed.

Legless-Marine

"It is elementary that freedom of expression is not to be restricted to views of which one approves, and that it is precisely in the case of views that are almost universally despised and condemned that this right must be most vigorously defended.

It is easy enough to defend those who need no defense or to join in unanimous condemnation of a violation of civil rights by some official enemy. "

- Noam Chomsky, "His Right to say it"
[url=http://www.zmag.org/chomsky/articles/8102-right-to-say.html]http://www.z...

Petsy

Of course Fuarisson has a "right" to say or write whatever he wishes as long as it is lawful. That doesn't mean that Noam Chomsky has to use Faurisson to make this point. He had to know the incredible pain this would engender and his research prior to writing was abysmal. He clearly knew nothing to little of whom he was defending. For a brilliant academic he showed incredibly poor judgement at best and wilful blindness at worst.

Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture

quote:


He clearly knew nothing to little of whom he was defending.

What an interesting comment from someone who routinely defends a racist state. I am trying to appreciate your logic. Is your argument that some racism, in particular anti-semitism is wrong, while other forms of racism, such as that expressed by the Israeli state and its most vocal supporters against Arabs and Islam, is acceptable?

Jacob Two-Two

quote:


But Chomsky himself has stated that he would not have gone as far as he did in defending Faurissons right to publish, had he been more aware of the where Faurisson is coming from.

I read an interview where he said the only regret he had in that whole affair was in ever backing off, even slightly, on his defence of absolute free speech. I assume he was talking about the statement you refer to.

quote:

He clearly knew nothing to little of whom he was defending. For a brilliant academic he showed incredibly poor judgement at best and wilful blindness at worst.

Why should he know anything about the author in question to defend his right to publish? What difference does it make? The principle is the same no matter who they are, what they're saying, or what the context is. We can't uphold freedom of speech, and then say,"well, except for these opinions, which we all know shouldn't be spoken, so they don't count".

It's a shame that certain arguments and opinions will cause people pain. My sympathy for this is sincere, but the fact is that the consequences of casting a chill over debate and dissent are far, far more serious than the emotional trials of those who have to read legitimately offensive writings. I think Chomsky was making a point, by defending the rights of precisely the most objectionable viewpoint he could find, to say that it is most important in these cases to defend free speech, because if the worst examples of such freedom aren't protected, then the freedom doesn't really exist. It is only the illusion of such. I would have written that introduction too.

ohara

Progressives and social democrats ought never give facists like Fausisson and his friends (Zundel et al) any credibility.

Chomsky could have chosen any number of ways to support free speech. Once you do as did Chomsky you not only put your reputation in question but you strengthen the racism inherant in the weasel words written by assholes like Faurisson. Shame on Chomsky.

Cueball Cueball's picture

If you are going to assert that in regards to this issue, you are going to have assert that Chmosky is lying when he said that he was unaware of the extent of Furisson's antisemetism when he first made the defence, either that or Chmsky should be psychic.

quart o' homomilk

Ohara, people give Faurisson and Zundel credibility when they block them from publishing, jail them for speech, and strip them of their rights on the outside. Everyone knows they're crackpots, so why treat them like dangerous political dissidents?

It should be obvious at this point that at best it is counter-productive. Faurisson's book got an enormous sales boost after being banned. Zundel has said to the public repeatedly that he is emboldened by being persecuted. It feeds into their whole lone martyr complex. The guy thinks he's Nelson Mandela.

Cueball Cueball's picture

Yes, odd that isn't it? It is almost as if other interests are served by embelishing the public profile of these bogey-men.

quart o' homomilk

If you are implying that the media-savvy presence of anti-semitic nutbars "serves other interests" in silencing dissent about Israeli policies, then I would say, yes I think you are probably right, but that seems to have evolved randomly-- the effect is unintentional. There is no cabal, as it were.

Jacob Two-Two

quote:


Chomsky could have chosen any number of ways to support free speech.

Like by defending J.K. Rowling's right to make up stories about spell-casting wizards? What a bold statement that would be.

I'll just repeat myself, since you clearly didn't read what I wrote:

I think Chomsky was making a point, by defending the rights of precisely the most objectionable viewpoint he could find, to say that it is most important in these cases to defend free speech, because if the worst examples of such freedom aren't protected, then the freedom doesn't really exist.

Get it? It is the offensiveness of the book that makes the defense of it's right to be published such a strong statement.

quote:

Once you do as did Chomsky you not only put your reputation in question but you strengthen the racism inherant in the weasel words written by assholes like Faurisson.

His reputation would only be questioned by those who understand neither freedom nor morality, and who cares what they think? And allowing racist words to be published does not strengthen their racism (what does that even mean?). It is driving them underground that makes them seem like an injured party, and gives them credibility. You are your own worst enemy.