Gender segregated camp in NS says boys should hike and girls should get pedicures

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"Next year, if girls do like to go fishing and they want to play the golf, there could be a mixture," he said. "There's a very good chance this might never happen again."

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Well yeah, now that the story has hit the MSM it's time to re-think the idea... [img]rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]

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Will S: In Grade 9 we had sex-segregated gym classes that often engaged in different sports. The boys had to wrestle, the girls got to dance, we played Murder Ball, they did gymastics. Frankly I think I would have preferred dancing and summersaults to body slams and bruises from balls whipped at me.

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[drift]
Dear god, I just had a flashback to Grade 10 gym class. We had a section called, I believe, "Modern Dance". We used props like a stick with a long ribbon on the end, and hula hoops, but not to swing around our hips. The props were flung gracefully about while we "danced" our "routine". The horror! [img]eek.gif" border="0[/img]

Although I will say, it sounds better than body slams and bruises.
[/drift]

My theory about the camp is it's caught in a timewarp to a time that never existed but that everyone thinks happened in the 50s. Good luck with that facade, Richard Dauphinee, ya big doofus. [img]tongue.gif" border="0[/img]

Hey BCG, that's actually an Olympic sport, isn't it? I forget what it's called, but it's part of the gymnastics events.

Here are the results of a poll conducted by [url=http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060927/your_say_06...

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Friday August 10, 2007
Should boys and girls go to separate camps?
Results:

Yes 51%
No 49%

No.. what's next.? Segregation by colour, religion, ethnicity?? I've been involved with the air cadet organization for over 30 years.. boys and girls attend camp but we teach them to be responsible and when they're not, that's where staff come in to ensure that all kids are safe and that rules are followed. Is it a perfect world? No, of course not... but is there one? But ask yourself if there's much of a difference between camp and school? Should we look at segregated schools next?
Kevin - Roslin, ON

The girl should conduct a poll of others to see if there is interest in a girls camp to parallel the boys activities.It is just to difficult to get the supervisory staff for for mixed gender groups not to mention accomodation and toilet facilities.Unfortunitally for her boys and girls are mostly differant.
Rod

It is not so much 'should' but be 'allowed'. Boys should be allowed to have their own groups the same as girls. I don't see Girl Guides becoming 'Guides'. Scouts should have remained just for boys. There should be girl camps and boy camps and a mixture of both.
Heidi

I am complete support of equality and equal access to services but I think that it is ridiculous to ask that camps change their specific programming to meet the needs of one individual. I do not think that there is a necessity to de-segregate boys and girls camps. I think that there are good reasons to have segregated camps. There may be some boys, girls and/or parents that want their children to go to segregated camps. Some campers may learn better in segregated environment. Currently there are three types of camps, boys only, girls only and mixed camps, this offers choice to parents and campers. It is up to the individual to find the camp that fits with their expectations and needs, if the girls camp does not offer the programming that girls want then I think parents should be working with the camp to offer the desired programing. I think that the young girl and her parents have the power and privilege to work with a girls camp to offer what they want and they will find that there probably is a great many girls that would attend a camp that offers the same outdoor experiences as the boys camp.
Shirley Bell - Peterborough, ON.

I feel that we should have all boy and all girls camps. Some children are much more comfortable at a camp where they don't have the added social pressure of dealing with the opposite sex. Girls and boys develop differently and behave differently especially during their middle elementary years and sometimes it is nice for both genders to have a break from each other. I don't think gender based camps are the issue here at all, the real issue is to have such sevre gender bias when planning the camps. Why can't there be an all girls fishing, hiking and golfing camp? The community should look closely at the way they are sterotyping their children, and maybe offer all girl and all boy camps along with co-ed camps that give the same experiences for both genders.
Anonymous

What an amazing little girl! She is so well-spoken. Even her mother didn't match the ability of this little one to get her point across. As for the 'girls only' camp, I don't blame her for not being interested. Come on, manicures! Is that all we can offer our girls? They should let her attend the camp she is interested in attending. Go fishing!
Wendy Onizak - Winnipeg

It may come as a surprise but believe it or not Boys and Girls are different. When my son was in the Beaver's program in Nova Scotia we were forced to have a girl in the group. I didn't find it a problem but my son said "Dad how come we have to have a girl and yet boys don't want to be in Sparks or Brownies" I could imagine the ridicule should it happen. My point is, sometimes Boys and Girls just want to have something for themselves yet because of one or two families we change the whole organization. The same thing happened when we caved to the Lords prayer and they standing for the National Anthem in schools or the peanut allergies. The majority in elections would never change yet we bend over backwards for the silliest of "TRADITIONS"
Ian Whitecross - Yellowknife

One has to question the ridiculous lengths to which people defend their rights to "equality". On a daily basis I see multitudes of "female only" educational programs, fitness centres, sporting teams and on and on. It seems that the very moment something is organized exclusively for males the discrimination cry is heard across the nation. If this little girl in Nova Scotia wants to go fishing so badly, her parents should buy her a pole and some worms, send her to the water, and stop this grandstanding nonsense!
Bob Brook - Lakefield Ontario

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I was a Girl Guide, back when there was a big debate whether girls should be allowed to join the "boys" clubs of Scouts and Cubs and Beavers. I remember at the time (being 11 or 12 or so)And being against the junction. But, back then I didn’t think of it as a gender-equality issue, I saw it more as seeing the boys encroaching on my comfort level. I enjoyed a close-knit group of “girls,” together, without the added pressure of making friends with the boys. Silly looking back on it now! But, it seems as though some of the comments above reflect this idea of a “comfort level” that would be lost if camps were not segregated.

Exactly, I agree. I saw both of it happen as a Girl Guide. Camp experiences were generally gender-neutral, and wonderful. And when we did gender-specific activities they seemed to serve a purpose Ie. perusing Fashion magazines, with the purpose of talking about their negative affects on body image. The only thing that stands out as being negative and perpetuating stereotypes, was one meeting where a make-up consultant came in and discussed wearing make up with us, and how to properly apply it (I would have been about 14 at the time...) so that it looks natural, and blah blah blah...but besides that, we did mostly the same things that the boys did, I think!

Are there enough parents of girls who want their girls to engage in "tomboyish" activities to financially justify the opening a girls camp which is not all about nails and facials?

I'm not a parent yet, so I can't know. I would want my sons and daughters to go beyond a little box, but I'm merely a single 23 year old male who thinks he has the answers. Are parents gendering their kids less than they used to?

I intentionally put the word in quotation marks. I am asking a question about the attitude of Canadian parents today.

[ 15 August 2007: Message edited by: 500_Apples ]

Quotation marks do not necessarily mean you're quoting someone.

I believe what Apples is trying to say is, how successful would an all-girls outdoors (as in fishing, etc.) camp be if parents have already gendered their daughters towards rejecting such "tomboyish" things?

[ 15 August 2007: Message edited by: Free_Radical ]

Not to get too nitpicky, but you wrote a post in which you characterized some activities as "tomboyish". You used quotes, so we can assume you meant that those are activities that could be perceived by some people, but not you, to be "tomboyish". You also questioned whether there would be any demand by parents to enroll girls in those activities that some people, but not you, perceive to be "tomboyish". So my question to you is, who perceives these activities as "tomboyish"?

And what decade are we living in, if we are going to assume that parents of girls won't sign their girls up for hiking because they think it's "tomboyish"? You seriously think that there's a possibility that there would be no demand for an outdoors camp for girls because hiking and fishing and golf could be perceived as "boy" activities?

Thus my timewarp comment. This ain't the 50's anymore. I think most parents of girls recognize that girls like outdoor games and activities as much as boys do.

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Originally posted by Michelle:
[b]Not to get too nitpicky, but you wrote a post in which you characterized some activities as "tomboyish". You used quotes, so we can assume you meant that those are activities that could be perceived by some people, but not you, to be "tomboyish". You also questioned whether there would be any demand by parents to enroll girls in those activities that some people, but not you, perceive to be "tomboyish". So my question to you is, who perceives these activities as "tomboyish"?

And what decade are we living in, if we are going to assume that parents of girls won't sign their girls up for hiking because they think it's "tomboyish"? You seriously think that there's a possibility that there would be no demand for an outdoors camp for girls because hiking and fishing and golf could be perceived as "boy" activities?

Thus my timewarp comment. This ain't the 50's anymore. I think most parents of girls recognize that girls like outdoor games and activities as much as boys do.[/b]

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You are being nitpicky. I don't really understand this practice. I always give people the benefit of the doubt on messge boards. Honestly I'm finding this little sidethread ridiculous and I almost feel as if you want me to have made that assholish comment.

Now, I didn't characterize any activities as tomboyish. I characterized them as "tomboyish". There is a massive difference, like light and day. I know it's somewhat problematic, so I wouldn't use that language in front of a five year old. But babble is a mature audience.

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So my question to you is, who perceives these activities as "tomboyish"?

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That's not your question to me. That was my open question, which was derailed. My question was precisely on what are parents' perceptions these days, and how and to what extent do they gender their kids. I am not going to give an definitive answer to my own question. Since I asked the question, that means I don't know the answer.

And indeed I don't. Yes, girls do more sports, As much as boys? I don't know. Do parents still gender their kids? Yes, that seems obvious. Are there some girls who would love a camp that's all about fishing, hiking, et cetera? Yes. Are there enough modern parents in even small communities, that whenever running such a boys camp is financially sustainable, it will also be financially sustainable to run a girls camp? That, I don't know. And that's why I asked the question. You can mention the 1950s or the 2000s all you want, but your attitudes as mine are definitely more contemporary than those of a lot of people. And many people are still very much in the 1950s.

Some here have said they have no problems with boys camps and girls camps. But if you're in a small town which also happens to be very traditional, and you have forty boys for the athletic camp, but only six girls whose parents want them to go to such a girls camp, then that option might not be available. Then you can either send the girls to the boys camp, tell the girls to get lost, send hem inconveniently far way, or to some other type of camp, less athletic.

[ 15 August 2007: Message edited by: 500_Apples ]

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Originally posted by Sven:
[b]

That isn't a very good metaphor, 500. [img]tongue.gif" border="0[/img] [/b]

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All right.

Like fog and day?

[ 15 August 2007: Message edited by: 500_Apples ]

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Originally posted by Sven:
[b]I was thinking of the more clichй metaphor: Like night and day.[/b]

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I actually laughed out loud.

I can't believe I wrote that and didn't realize!

[url=http://www.girlsrockcamp.org/]Or, girls can forget about camping and pedicures, and they can just go to camp to "rock on" and rock out!"[/url]

This website was better than a jolt of caffeine to wake me up this morning!

For sure! I want to go to Rock Star camp! [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img]

Rexdale_Punjabi wrote:

this is retarded I would never go to a camp full of guys man screw that. you knoww lol

Hi R_P,

Can I ask you not to use the word "retarded" the way you have used it in a couple of posts? It really does smack of contempt for people with intellectual disabilities. I'm not saying you mean it that way. But that's how it sounds.