"Islamic Like Me" by Danielle Crittenden
Wed, 2007-12-12 02:53
#1
Maysie
"Islamic Like Me" by Danielle Crittenden
Wed, 2007-12-12 02:53
#2
Maysie
I wish I was making this shit up, but my mind isn't that twisted.
Danielle Crittenden, who feminists may remember as the right-wing woman married to David Frum who wrote the famous backlash book "What Our Mothers Didn't Tell Us" decided to wear a niqab for a week to see what it's like. Please make sure you have a support system and maybe some alcohol on hand before reading this.
She has four blog entries:
[url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/danielle-crittenden/islamic-like-me-taking... Like Me: Taking on the Veil[/url]
[url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/danielle-crittenden/islamic-like-me-does-t... Like Me: Does This Burka Make Me Look Fat?[/url]
[url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/danielle-crittenden/islamic-like-me-why-do... Like Me: Why Don't You Just Take It Off?[/url]
[url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/danielle-crittenden/islamic-like-me-do-you... Like Me: "Do You Have Sky Miles?"[/url]
Danielle describes very little response to her getting on the subway with a big knapsack, booking a one-way flight to New York City (it was a test) expecting all sorts of discrimination and not getting any. Well, I guess it's all made it up isn't it?
quote:
"The vast majority of Muslims abhor terrorism," we are frequently reminded, and of course that's true. And yet, even tolerance can be taken too far.If I had chosen to walk about Washington in a white hood and sheets rather than black ones, I doubt I would have encountered such universal politeness. And yet, what the Klan outfit represents to someone of African-American descent is exactly what the burka should represent to every free woman. Those who impose it upon women believe that a whole category of human beings can be treated as property; that this category may be beaten, sold into marriage, divorced at whim, denied education and work, raped with impunity, and stoned to death for offenses that would be pardoned in a man. For the wearer of the white hood, the subjugated category is defined by race. For the wearer of the black hood, it's defined by sex. Otherwise the two garments carry the same meaning--with the slight variation that one is worn by the would-be oppressor, the other by the oppressed.
For a wonderfully written antidote, please check out Fatemeh Fakhraie's article on, where else, Racialicious.com [url=http://www.racialicious.com/2007/12/11/the-veil-does-not-a-prison-make/].... "The Veil Does not a Prison Make"[/url]
quote:
Readers, you know my issue with people who use “Muslim” and “Islamic” synonymously. For god’s sake, would somebody check the Associated Press guidelines?! “Islamic” describes architecture and history…things. A “Muslim” is an adherent of Islam; Muslims are people, not things.
Fatemeh's response to the Danielle's quote above:
quote:
Wow. I guess that’s how Ms. Crittenden sees Muslim men and women: rapist wife-beaters and chattel, respectively. She never stops to think about Muslim women who voluntarily take on the niqab (the majority of niqabis in the west do this as part of a more conservative interpretation of Islam). What about them, Ms. Crittenden? Since they are “imposing” the niqab on themselves, do you think that they view themselves as property, to be beaten and raped?Ms. Crittenden’s bias against Muslims, the Middle East, and Islam itself are readily apparent throughout the entire series of posts. Whenever she refers to her niqab, she uses her Orientalism megaphone, choosing adjectives that paint the niqab as so alien that it’s not even from the same time period as we occupy: it arrived in what “looked like a package someone had shipped 400 years ago…” and doing laundry makes her feel like she lives in “a Victorian household,” making her realize that she won’t be able to live “a normal life” because of it.
[ 12 December 2007: Message edited by: bigcitygal ]
Wed, 2007-12-12 04:02
#3
My question is: what the hell is Danielle Crittendon doing blogging on THE HUFFINGTON POST? I thought the Huffington Post was supposed to be progressive! Now they're posting racist, right-wing tripe by Republican Bush supporters?
Good grief.
Wed, 2007-12-12 08:12
#4
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
[b]My question is: what the hell is Danielle Crittendon doing blogging on THE HUFFINGTON POST? I thought the Huffington Post was supposed to be progressive! Now they're posting racist, right-wing tripe by Republican Bush supporters?Good grief.[/b]
I've always considered the Huffington post liberal rather than progressive.
Wed, 2007-12-12 08:25
#5
Depends. In the US, the definition of "progressive" is more akin to "liberal" than in Canada.
Wed, 2007-12-12 08:47
#6
quote:
Originally posted by DavisMavis:
[b]Depends. In the US, the definition of "progressive" is more akin to "liberal" than in Canada.[/b]
Yeah, that's what I was getting at in an oblique manner. The political spectrum in the United States is a very narrow slice of the right side of the spectrum. Liberals are on the "left" there. Canada's political spectrum a bit further left and somewhat wider though that is changing quickly as our assimilation "moves forward". I don't like to see Canadians adopting their terminology but it's part of that same process.
Wed, 2007-12-12 09:04
#7
Maysie
Danielle is Canadian, as is her husband David Frum. Her step-dad is Peter Worthington, btw.
So, anyone read the links and have any comments?
Wed, 2007-12-12 09:31
#8
quote:
Originally posted by bigcitygal:
[b]Danielle is Canadian, as is her husband David Frum. Her step-dad is Peter Worthington, btw.So, anyone read the links and have any comments?[/b]
whoops! I didn't realize this was "anti-racism". I'm outta here! [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img]
Wed, 2007-12-12 09:45
#9
quote:
Originally posted by bigcitygal:
[b]Danielle is Canadian, as is her husband David Frum. Her step-dad is Peter Worthington, btw.So, anyone read the links and have any comments?[/b]
I thought the experiment was interesting; I haven't heard of anyone else trying this sort of thing before. Can it be called racist if Islam is a religion?
Wed, 2007-12-12 09:49
#10
quote:
Originally posted by bigcitygal:
[b]So, anyone read the links and have any comments?[/b]
I'm sorry. [img]smile.gif" border="0[/img] Mea culpa! I started the thread drift. I did read one of the Critter articles and then realized it was on Huffington Post, thus my outrage.
One was enough for me. It was a stupid experiment to begin with. As a white woman who sees Muslims as the enemy, she probably wouldn't even notice any racism directed towards her anyhow, either because she would, due to her own prejudices, think they were justified, or due to her lack of experience and therefore lack of seeing the same thing happen to her over and over and over again and having years to analyze it, not think certain incidents through. Stuff would escape her because she'd be so used to acting the way people around her were acting. Also, I don't know about anyone else, but if I were to suddenly start wearing full veils, I would be so unused to it and feel so self-conscious that I would probably be more focused on trying to fit in and "act Muslim" than anything. That would probably be a pretty huge distraction from analyzing the world around you.
Finally - she has no idea what it's like to BE a Muslim woman. She probably has all sorts of preconceived notions of how they act and what they say and how they speak and all that. So I very highly doubt she could ever have exactly the same experience as Muslim women have, simply because she likely has no niqabi (or hijabi) women as friends and therefore has no idea how to "act the part" beyond whatever racist generalizations she's heard in the circles she and her hubby travel in.
(Am I forgiven now? [img]smile.gif" border="0[/img] )
[ 12 December 2007: Message edited by: Michelle ]
Wed, 2007-12-12 10:15
#11
Le T
quote:
I thought the experiment was interesting; I haven't heard of anyone else trying this sort of thing before. Can it be called racist if Islam is a religion?
"Black Like Me" and "Nickle and Dimed" are but two of the many examples of writers of privilege who "try on" the life of an oppressed person. It's a very common technique, the Toronto Star usually runs an article at least once per year on a writer who has gone undercover as a homeless person.
As for whether it's racist or not because "Islam is not a race", who cares. It's white rich people with space to write their ideas oppressing "non-white" people. It's racist because it's white-supremacist (i.e. "now we understand what it's like").
Thu, 2007-12-13 13:57
#12
Makwa
quote:
Originally posted by bigcitygal:
[b]So, anyone read the links and have any comments?[/b]
I read it, and found it puke-worthy. No attempt to even understand anything about the religion of Islam, or talk to any Muslim women at all, or even to visit a mosque. That they would expand this sorry excuse for reporting to four parts astonishes me - how many ways can you say [RenStimpyMrHorsevoice.wav]"No sir, I don't like it!"[/RenStimpyMrHorsevoice.wav] Badly written, dull and poorly researched. Bleah.
Thu, 2007-12-13 14:18
#13
Catchfire
And the nerve of her titling the piece "Islamic Like Me"! At least [i]Black Like Me[/i], which, as Le Tйlйspectateur points out, had its own problematic sense of entitlement, took the side of the oppressed. This pap ('puke-worthy' indeed) clearly set out to vindicate whites and indict Muslims. It would resemble a Woody Allen movie if I then criticized her for not attempting to integrate with actual Muslims ('The food's terrible! And such small portions!') but whatever, Woody's great. This 'journalism' is not.
And to comment about how polite customs people were [i]after they saw her Canadian Passport with her smiling white face on it![/i] I wonder what would have happened if she didn't speak English and had a UAE passport? Cripes. What utter shit.
Sat, 2007-12-15 21:28
#14
Actually, I thought her pieces were quite good. [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img]
Sat, 2007-12-15 22:24
#15
RevolutionPlease
quote:
Originally posted by leftcoast:
[b]Actually, I thought her pieces were quite good. [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img] [/b]
What a depressing day.
Sat, 2007-12-15 22:59
#16
Yeah, the truth hurts.
Sat, 2007-12-15 23:30
#17
RevolutionPlease
quote:
Originally posted by leftcoast:
[b]Yeah, the truth hurts.[/b]
No, the truth displays the bigotry and xenophobia.
Sun, 2007-12-16 03:49
#18
leftcoast, stay out of the anti-racism forum from now on. Thanks.
Sun, 2007-12-16 22:17
#19
as a white male muslim I find her fraud at best disrespectful to women and to muslims. clearly no one called her on her lack of arabic greeting
"as-salaam-u alaykum", which I have experienced when traveling: others greeting me in arabic, as I would initiate as custom (and courtesy) require. Of course I answer appropriately and welcome a conversation with an "aki", especially since I am white, although Israel is as close as I've come to Mecca.
Surely she writes well, although her socialogic methods would seem unethical to a scholastic reviewer.
...and has she learned her religion, or does she maintain her (apparent) heresy?
Wed, 2007-12-19 20:38
#20
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
[b]leftcoast, stay out of the anti-racism forum from now on. Thanks.[/b]
Did I imagine [url=http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=009606&p=... post from leftcoast[/url] addressed to Michelle a month ago:
quote:
Whoa--you are really thin skinned. Babble is obviously a board for the left to sit around sneering at those who may disagree (yes, you are looking in the mirror when you accuse me of that) and engage in self-congratulatory agreement about the failed stance of the NDP. You don't need to ban me; I'm gone.
Keeps coming back like some of the meals I cook...
Sun, 2008-01-20 02:26
#21
Well, in any case, he's gone now. In fact, when I went to lock his account a few minutes ago, someone had already done it! So, I guess that means another moderator got to him first. Always nice when there's a consensus. [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img]
P.S. Whoops, I was wrong. I misread the screen (it's early!) so I actually did get to him first. Ha ha, oldgoat. Nyah.
[ 20 January 2008: Message edited by: Michelle ]
Sun, 2008-01-20 06:41
#22
Lard Tunderin Jeezus
A much more interesting and useful take on this was done by Morgan Spurlock on "30 Days". He transplanted a midwestern Christian insurance salesman into a muslim community for thirty days, and recorded his reactions and revelations.
Sun, 2008-01-20 08:58
#23
Thank you LTJ. That's one of the most constructive post on the thread so far. I'm adding the film on my netflix queue.
***
FYI: I can't believe people on this thread have criticized black like me and nickel and dimed. You can criticize imperfection all you want, all that matters in the end is that they were very successful in communicating ideas which helped shift attitudes. Armchair investigative journalists who have no idea how hard it is. IJ done well is possibly the most important forms on journalism. Personally, Black Like Me is probably one of the books which has most influenced my in my life. One of the TV reports which most influenced me was a British man who joined the fashion industry, and chronicled how the male managers sought to sexually utilize their 15 year old models. Just because some IJ such as Crittenden's is lower quality doesn't mean all IJ is bad.
***
The blog by Danielle Crittenden. It starts off badly when it's announced she only did it for one week. I think it would need to last a lot longer than that. She started with one attitude and sought ways to confirm it. She was unscientific in her one trip to the airport and she probably knows it. There is not one idiot out there who thinks Muslims are harassed 100% of the time and whites are never harassed. Racial profiling would obviously be implemented in a statistical manner. Did she try and have middle eastern accent and uncomfortable mannerisms? If she spoke like the guards they would subconsciously be more comfortable with her.
Of course that's one of the reasons I could never do such investigative journalism - I'm a shitty actor :-)
Sun, 2008-01-20 10:49
#24
So she went to the Washington airport without any overt prejudice being evident.
What a wonderful country! Or city. Or maybe just airport.
I am not so sure that her experiences would be the same if she tried them in rural Texas, or even Indianapolis. Washington has many Muslims, some connected to the diplomatic corps. So they are somewhat used to them there.
Mon, 2008-01-21 07:00
#25
quote:
Originally posted by 500_Apples:
[b] *** FYI: I can't believe people on this thread have criticized black like me and nickel and dimed. You can criticize imperfection all you want, all that matters in the end is that they were very successful in communicating ideas which helped shift attitudes. [/b]
I'm happy that it touched you and as you say changed your life.
But its is important that we collectively be consciouses about what we are doing and reading.
If we cant discuss things critically, in order to make things better then we are not really interested in stepping outside of our comfort zone.
"Black like me" would have been radically different if it was written by a Black man or woman. There are so many subtle things that are hard to comprehend, and that remain hidden to those who are not part of a culture.
Think of it this way, nobody in thier right mind, woudl think that there was any real dept, to the musings of an African or Arabic writer, who pretended to be white for a week or even a month. There would most likely be critics of how naive, this foreign writer is, to assume that they can fully appreciate mainstream white-Canadian in such a short period.
Heck I've lived here for over 17yrs, and people still tell me and others that have been here for 30yrs, that we don't trully undrestnd cuz we are not part of the culture. There is still something new about about the so-called mainstream culture, that is surprising and new.
"Black like me" tried to get it, but fundamentally did not really get it. I would say it did go further than some others, but still missed some key points.
It is about time that the mainstream White-media learn that we can speak for ourselves, and i think the so-called progressive white-left, needs to learn to not take everything that they learn from the "cultural actors" as the gospel truth. Reading some more writers from the racialised groups, especially those that seem to rub the collective left, the wrong way, will go a long way to furthering that gap.
Mon, 2008-01-21 09:16
#26
quote:
"Black like me" would have been radically different if it was written by a Black man or woman.
Any biographical book by any black person would presumably tell what kinds of discrimination he or she faces daily.
"Black like me" is a book about a white person's experiences.
The white person pretending to be black discovers a universe of oppression which he had not expected.
That is why it was a powerful book, and opened lots of white minds.
Mon, 2008-01-21 09:31
#27
sorry - I didn't realize this was the anti-racism forum.
[ 21 January 2008: Message edited by: RosaL ]
Mon, 2008-01-21 10:59
#28
quote:
Originally posted by jeff house:
[b]"Black like me" is a book about a white person's experiences.
That is why it was a powerful book, and opened lots of white minds.[/b]
Yes and now that the minds have been open, there needs to be a reading about the Black peoples experiences. Not just a white persons experience as a black person.
I'm saying it was a good start, I'm also saying that was decades ago, we need to go deeper, and as they say on the streets "keep it real"
A group of men, pretending to be women, will only go so far. Since we have ample opportunities to interact with women, i would respectfully suggest that we find out what their issues are, from them.
Same as I would respectfully suggest, that if we want to understnad what is going on today in the various racialised comunites, we should respectfully listen, and be Leary of giving too much credence to the voices of the so-called White persons experiences as a *insert flavor of the month* person.
We need to learn to stop defending the Eurocentric & paternalistic tendencies.
Its 2008, anyone that wants to hear the diverse voices of the various racialised and marginalsed groups , can go to the sources.
Or we can just pretend like its 1930 or 1960 or 1800, and only listen to the exotic stories of the people who dared to go live like the so-called natives.
Mon, 2008-01-21 11:51
#29
Makwa
Since everyone is having a love fest with that stupid book called 'black like me' where some white guy pretended to be black, and caught a glimpse of everyday life that he simply could have had by having a close black friend or by simply reading the reams of black literature available at the time, doesn't this merely illustrate that nobody will take anything seriously until it's written by a white person?
I am seriously tired of having my reality dismissed until acknowledged by a white person. If white folk don't want to read about aboriginal or POC realities until it affects them, then they are simply engaging in their white privilege that enables them to forget which doesn't affect them, until a favoured white friend has some experience of it.
Since white reality is the dominant force which engages discourse, all discussion about 'white like me' or 'indian like me' or any other play acting used to engage white sympathy is simply exploitation and yet another sop to white guilt.
Mon, 2008-01-21 11:58
#30
Makwa
quote:
Originally posted by jeff house:
[b]The white person pretending to be black discovers a universe of oppression which he had not expected. That is why it was a powerful book, and opened lots of white minds.[/b]
This is the lie. This is the idea that nothing is real until white folk figure it out. There was no 'new world' until white folk accidentally found their way there. There were no black folk writing analysis on racism, or on culture before a white man put on black face and lived in a boarding house for a couple of days. The reason that this was a new experience for white folk is because white folk refused to read the writing of black folk. Willfull ignorance is no excuse, so it is said. It may have 'opened lots of white minds' but only because they were closed to the hundreds of years of black writers and poets and playwrights and filmmakers before that. Colour me very unimpressed with all those open white folk.
Mon, 2008-01-21 12:15
#31
Maysie
Thanks to AfroHealer and Makwa for putting into words what's the crux of why this is so problematic. You guys rock!
Mon, 2008-01-21 12:59
#32
quote:
This is the lie. This is the idea that nothing is real until white folk figure it out.
Perhaps you have a methodology for ending racism which does not require white people to "figure it out."
Black Like Me was a book by a white person, directed at white people, by and large, which helped them to "figure it out".
That's no lie, just reality.
Mon, 2008-01-21 16:42
#33
I think I get what BCG, Makwa and Afrohealer (and probably others are saying). The trouble is you're preaching to the choir. In my experience, sometime white people react better when another white person calls them on their racism. That way, the white guy can't dismiss the criticsm as a result of the POC's sensitivity, preious bad experiences, hang-ups etc. Yes, that too is racist in and of itself, but if it makes an ignorant white person think about some of their beliefs, maybe it might do some good.
It would be great if every white person read a first hand account of what it's like to be black, aboriginal, middle eastern, and so on, but a lot aren't going. Enter "Black Like Me".
quote:
Its 2008, anyone that wants to hear the diverse voices of the various racialised and marginalsed groups , can go to the sources.Or we can just pretend like its 1930 or 1960 or 1800, and only listen to the exotic stories of the people who dared to go live like the so-called natives.
Sadly, many people haven't changed all that much since 1960, which means the things that oppened their eyes 50 years ago, will still open eyes today.
Mon, 2008-01-21 17:16
#34
quote:
sometime white people react better when another white person calls them on their racism
By that standard, I should point out that they react even better when NO ONE calls them on their racism...
One difference between then and now is that there are writers being published, organizations speaking out, schools being integrated. So anyone needing to read a Xt-ian to understand Islam or a White to understand Blacks or a man to understand women is just adding bricks to the wall around him or herself. I often am asked to give talks about the antifeminist backlash and my non-negotiable condition is that a feminist be also invited to speak.
Mon, 2008-01-21 17:26
#35
Makwa
quote:
Originally posted by jeff house:
[b]Perhaps you have a methodology for ending racism which does not require white people to "figure it out."[/b]
Gosh, JH. I thought I made myself clear. Pay attention to FN and POC for a change. Read their works, quote them, make their words the point of analysis. It's not that difficult. Respect them. That is all.
Mon, 2008-01-21 17:51
#36
Lard Tunderin Jeezus
As a grade school student who could count all the black people he knew on his nose, 'Black Like Me' was a relevation. Without it, the Civil Rights movement had lacked context and perspective. Always remember the era it which this book was released.
As importantly, 'Black Like Me' prepared me to encounter Eldridge Cleaver and Dick Gregory a few years later. I still have my copy of "Dick Gregory's Political Primer".
Mon, 2008-01-21 18:46
#37
Maysie
Summer you are so gorgeously spot on with this that I have to quote you again:
quote:
I think I get what BCG, Makwa and Afrohealer (and probably others are saying). The trouble is you're preaching to the choir. In my experience, [b]sometime[/b] white people react better when another white person calls them on their racism. That way, the white guy can't dismiss the criticsm as a result of the POC's sensitivity, preious bad experiences, hang-ups etc. Yes, that too is racist in and of itself, but if it makes an ignorant white person think about some of their beliefs, maybe it might do some good.
I added the bold to say, in my experience it's "most of the time".
Summer's words above are precisely why, in the 80s, 90s and early 00s, anti-racism education was framed around having 2 co-facilitators, one white, one of colour. So that the white facilitator could deal with the white folks, that they could hear all this info from a white person. This model remains effective to this day.
I've said a jillion times that I'm light skinned. If this wasn't a discussion board I wouldn't have to keep saying it of course, but it's important to be clear where and how I enter this work. I'm very aware this makes me more "palatable" for white folks when I'm doing AR and AO (anti-oppression) work. At the 101 level I let it slide, at the 201 level I will push them to examine why a darker skinned POC or FN person isn't "good enough" or authoritative enough to be saying what I'm saying and to be heard in the same way. At the 300+ level I will assist in facilitating a re-examination of what power is, who is "allowed" to hold it in what circumstances, and how to use power they hold to be white allies.
As an educator, this is a realistic compromise that I make, in the hopes of getting through to someone for the first time. As a hard-assed activist, it bugs the hell out of me.
Just like we need men, connected to the feminist movement, to work with other men, we need white folks, in community with POC and FN people, to be allies and to do AR work. I argue this around any social location for those who are in the non-marginalized position.