Golf
Sat, 2008-01-05 05:04
#1
rural - Francesca
Golf
Sat, 2008-01-05 05:04
#2
rural - Francesca
I need to learn to play golf. Not for all the health benefits such as the vitamin D of sunshine, or the exercise of walking the course, or the simple flexibility the game requires, I’m talking about the health of my career.
While sitting in the waiting room of my chiropractor, my eye was caught by the headline “Get in the Game: 10 ways golf can boost your career”, on the front page of Golf for Women magazine. I borrowed (with permission and have returned) the magazine; and one of my greatest fears was about to be confirmed.
I always dreaded the work conversations that began with “we were talking about you on the golf course yesterday and….” and something about my job would get changed. Naturally there are no notes from this meeting on the green; no opportunity for me to have input or refute the ideas, or even suggested an improvement to the brainstorming. I’d been left out of the loop! Often these meetings involved people to whom I never reported and whose department didn’t relate to mine.
The article begins by pointing out a study that showed 40% of women felt that the lack of networking time was holding them back from advancement. The article goes on to suggest that men golf naturally and that women need to pay attention and get out there as well. Apparently it’s a skill that needs to be learned, up there with leaning office software.
The article suggests the first way to boost your career is to be flexible, learning to play even if you don’t want to. The practical example cites a woman who found high power clients because she could talk golf with them. The second point suggests becoming a networker, the practical example rose four job levels and credits golf for contributing to the rise.
Be team player asserts point three, and point four says to build relationships. Five says, “be ambitious”. “People transfer a view of expertise” cites the example, if your serious about golf you must be serious about work too.
Six offers the sage advice of being classy. Gee, don’t beat the boss, and if you do make excuses and point out their good shots. Make their game the focus. Obviously this is no longer about your needs, but their ego.
Seven suggests balancing your foursome with good golfers and not so good golfers; well I guess my scorecard will be busy. Eight suggests being detailed orientated, catering to your clients’ every whim, and making sure you pay for everything up front.
Nine offers opportunity-grabbing advice, the subtle art of pushing your own agenda. Number ten is sage advice regardless of the course of life you’re playing on: be courteous.
So with these ten points rolling in my head I figure I must take up golf. It seems the best person for the job can no longer be found through resumes and staff evaluations. It’s the person who can get out of the office on company time and golf with the big boys.
There’s nothing wrong with golf as a sport, as a distraction and as a past time. I just have a problem with one particular sport being identified as a career maker or breaker. I have played two sets of nine holes and had an absolute ball doing so. Nothing counted, we sort of cheated and we had a lot of fun. But no one’s life was altered as a direct result, I do think I made an impression and those in attendance realized I could have a lot of fun outside of the office.
[i] Footnote: after this was orginally published a woman in her 80's contacted me and sold me both her and her husbands golf clubs for $100, I too golfing lesson and my son and I plan, each summer, to go gofling - we've never made it! [/i]
Sat, 2008-01-05 08:48
#3
Sven
quote:
Originally posted by rural - Francesca:
[b]Apparently it’s a skill that needs to be learned, up there with leaning office software.[/b]
Don’t believe it.
Building a network [i]is[/i] important in business but taking up golfing is not some magical key that must be used in order to automatically—and effortlessly—create a network for yourself.
The key is [i]engaging[/i] with a wide variety of people. You can be a great golfer but if you can’t personally engage with people, you’ll never build a network.
Personally, I think the best way to engage with people is with one-on-one lunches. I get out and talk with people and get to know them, their interests, and their business objectives. And I reciprocate, so that they can learn more about me.
I also enjoy dinners. Ms. Sven and I had a dinner last night with two couples (one of the people is a retired general counsel that I’ve known for years and one of the other people is the head of a division of a large local company whom I hadn’t met before). We had a ball. Ms. Sven and I just talked all evening with four very interesting people who have done a lot of interesting things in life. We’re doing the same thing tonight with another couple (one of whom is a senior exec at our company) and we’re just going to their house for a casual dinner and watch some movies).
Golf may be a vehicle to do that but it’s not a necessary vehicle.
Learning to golf even passably well will burn up an incredible amount of your free time. My free time is my free time. I’d rather read, go for a walk, ride my motorcycle, ride my bike, listen to music, hang out with friends, go to a movie, etc. The last thing I want to do is to go schlepping out to the golf course every Saturday and Sunday to spend several hours playing 18 holes of golf...and that’s pretty much what you need to do in order to learn the game.
quote:
Originally posted by rural - Francesca:
[b][Golfing helps you become a] team player asserts point three[/b]
Last time I checked, golf isn’t a team sport.
quote:
Originally posted by rural - Francesca:
[b]Five says, “be ambitious”. “People transfer a view of expertise” cites the example, if your serious about golf you must be serious about work too. [/b]
Have an avocational expertise in something you really enjoy. Life’s too short to spend hundreds of hours on something you hate or don’t really enjoy.
quote:
Originally posted by rural - Francesca:
[b]Six offers the sage advice of being classy. Gee, don’t beat the boss, and if you do make excuses and point out their good shots. Make their game the focus. Obviously this is no longer about your needs, but their ego. [/b]
I have actually asked many people who golf in the business context, “Do you let the other guy win?” To a person, they say, “Never!!” And, it doesn’t matter if the other guy is the person’s boss or a customer.
Oh, and a person can be plenty “classy” without ever taking a single stroke on a golf course.
quote:
Originally posted by rural - Francesca:
[b]Nine offers opportunity-grabbing advice, the subtle art of pushing your own agenda.[/b]
Again, that can be done in other contexts.
quote:
Originally posted by rural - Francesca:
[b]Number ten is sage advice regardless of the course of life you’re playing on: be courteous.[/b]
Ditto.
quote:
Originally posted by rural - Francesca:
[b]It seems the best person for the job can no longer be found through resumes and staff evaluations.[/b]
There’s some truth to that. People will be more inclined to want to work with you if they [i][b]like you[/i][/b] and can [i][b]trust you[/i][/b]. They only way they can do that is if they really get to know you.
quote:
Originally posted by rural - Francesca:
[b]There’s nothing wrong with golf as a sport, as a distraction and as a past time. [snip] I have played two sets of nine holes and had an absolute ball doing so. Nothing counted, we sort of cheated and we had a lot of fun. But no one’s life was altered as a direct result, I do think I made an impression and those in attendance realized I could have a lot of fun outside of the office. [/b]
Well, if you had fun and enjoyed it, and want to continue learning the game, then have at it. But, life is too short to make it an obligation.[/QB][/QUOTE]
Sat, 2008-01-05 10:03
#4
rural - Francesca
Ahhh yes but there's nothing like the supreme boss coming to talk to you and saying "we (the other management staff) were talking about you and we think you should ______________"
Well since I couldn't play I wasn't invited and therefore couldn't put my own input into this undocumented meeting.
Needless to say, despite learning to play, I haven't played [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img]
But I can play road hockey pretty good [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img]
Sat, 2008-01-05 11:33
#5
Sven
quote:
Originally posted by rural - Francesca:
[b]Ahhh yes but there's nothing like the supreme boss coming to talk to you and saying "we (the other management staff) were talking about you and we think you should ______________"Well since I couldn't play I wasn't invited and therefore couldn't put my own input into this undocumented meeting.[/b]
But, you know what? That will happen all the time anyway. You can't go to every lunch, dinner, and sporting event that your boss goes to with other people, right? Office talk is going to happen whether you golf or not.
With regard to road hockey, I used to love playing that as a kid. Get two big snowballs as goal posts and drop the puck! Very few Americans had the singular pleasure of playing road hockey growing up. I was just lucky enough to have grown up in Minnesota...a mere six miles from the Canadian border, no less! [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img]
Sat, 2008-01-05 11:45
#6
Sven is right. Golf is a very inefficient way to network. It can work as you say, but it's not worth the amount of time it takes considering how few people you can be with on a round. Plus you have the overhead cost of having to spend time learning it and practicing.
Sat, 2008-01-05 11:46
#7
Sven
quote:
Originally posted by Proaxiom:
[b]Sven is right. Golf is a very inefficient way to network. It can work as you say, but it's not worth the amount of time it takes considering how few people you can be with on a round. Plus you have the overhead cost of having to spend time learning it and practicing.[/b]
Not to mention that the sport is horrendously expensive.
Sun, 2008-01-06 07:02
#8
It's the whole idea of 'networking' that's offensive to me. If you want to have lunch with a friend, go have lunch. If you like golf (and/or drinking -- I sure do), play golf. But honest to god I cannot stand these mutual back-scratching societies that you run into all over the place in business. Talk about seeing people as a means to an end.
Sun, 2008-01-06 07:39
#9
quote:
Originally posted by Sven:
[b]Not to mention that the sport is horrendously expensive.[/b]
Between cost in time and cost in money, it's a toss-up why I don't play golf.
quote:
Originally posted by triciamarie:
[b]It's the whole idea of 'networking' that's offensive to me. If you want to have lunch with a friend, go have lunch.[/b]
We're not really talking about spending time with friends, here. This is about cultivating business relationships. The fact is that you are not going to go out and try to be good friends with hundreds of different people that you know through your work. But you will be able to do your job a lot better if you are acquainted with these people.
We all have pragmatic elements in our relationships with other people. I'm not sure whether you object to that fact or whether you just object to those elements being consciously managed.
Sun, 2008-01-06 07:45
#10
Sven
quote:
Originally posted by triciamarie:
[b]It's the whole idea of 'networking' that's offensive to me. If you want to have lunch with a friend, go have lunch. If you like golf (and/or drinking -- I sure do), play golf. But honest to god I cannot stand these mutual back-scratching societies that you run into all over the place in business. Talk about seeing people as a means to an end.[/b]
Let's say someone asks me about how to find a divorce lawyer because she wants to get a divorce and she doesn't know the first place to look.
If all divorce lawyers were equally competent, ethical, hardworking, etc., I'd say, "Just open the phone book and choose a divorce lawyer."
But, the fact of the matter is that they are not all equal.
I can recommend some divorce lawyers, not because I've had to use them personally, but because I know them (and not just know [i]of[/i] them) and have talked with people who worked with them. So, I can be reasonably confident that I can make a good recommendation.
Let's say you need to replace your roof. Not every roofer is equally competent and honest. So, you reach out to others to get a sense of past experiences they have had roofers.
Networking in one's job is no different.
[ 06 January 2008: Message edited by: Sven ]
Sun, 2008-01-06 11:32
#11
quote:
Originally posted by Sven:
[b]I can recommend some divorce lawyers, not because I've had to use them personally, but because I know them (and not just know [i]of[/i] them) and have talked with people who worked with them. So, I can be reasonably confident that I can make a good recommendation.
[/b]
Your confidence may be misplaced. Some of the most ineffective lawyers that I have had the good fortune to go up against are at the hub of the very smarmiest social networks. They may be pleasant to talk to, and sure, everyone gets some wins, but unless you have lots of money, believe me, they don't give a shit about optimizing your outcome.
Where do you think they get all this time to sit on committees and have lunch with you?
Sun, 2008-01-06 11:54
#12
quote:
Originally posted by Proaxiom:
[b]We're not really talking about spending time with friends, here. This is about cultivating business relationships.[/b]
Exactly. Networking is a warped, elitist practice that originates in business and professional schools. Fortunately, I hear from family members that after Enron this manner of doing business is on a downswing -- pardon the pun -- in North America. So there may yet be hope for those who try to stand on merit, and don't golf, or "lunch" (the verb).
[ 06 January 2008: Message edited by: triciamarie ]
Sun, 2008-01-06 13:44
#13
quote:
Originally posted by triciamarie:
[b]Exactly. This is a warped, elitist practice that originates in business and professional schools.[/b]
Not having anything more illustrious than a math degree, I engage in networking all the time. Mostly with hackers.
Information on software/hardware security, vulnerabilities, exploits, etc moves very fast. It's impossible to keep up if you don't have access to the right channels. And you can only get access to the right channels by building the right connections. Conversely, having such access makes me far more effective at my job.
Your association of networking with old boys clubs is too narrow. It didn't originate in the business community. It originated at the same time as structured human society.
Sun, 2008-01-06 14:10
#14
Sven
quote:
Originally posted by triciamarie:
[b]Fortunately, I hear from family members that after Enron this manner of doing business is on a downswing -- pardon the pun -- in North America.[/b]
Don't believe it. Networking, in its various forms, will be around as long as there are human societies and as long as one human's ability is not identical to all other humans' abilities. It's an informal, but extremely valuable, means of gaining information.
Sun, 2008-01-06 14:25
#15
quote:
Networking, in its various forms, will be around as long as there are human societies and as long as one human's ability is not identical to all other humans' abilities.
Absolutely. Networking will never go out of style.
Whether it's golf, working a room at a reception, lunches and or dinners, charity work, or whatever, the social contacts you make are extremely important. Always have been and always will be.
Sun, 2008-01-06 16:34
#16
quote:
Originally posted by Proaxiom:
[b]
I engage in networking all the time. Mostly with hackers.
[/b]
Do hackers really golf, and lunch? I can't imagine.
How's their swing?
Sun, 2008-01-06 21:09
#17
quote:
Originally posted by triciamarie:
[b]Do hackers really golf, and lunch? I can't imagine.How's their swing?[/b]
Maybe not golf so much. [img]smile.gif" border="0[/img]
There's a third reason I don't play, I suppose.
Wed, 2008-01-09 04:01
#18
I agree about networking. Employment Insurance used to run group sessions for newly unemployed people (not sure if they still do) and they emphasized the importance of networking in finding work.
Now, I've found work through networking and I've found work through the applying-cold-from-a-job-ad. But networking works a lot better.
People find it distasteful because it feels like nepotism to get jobs or contracts through networking, and I suppose in a way it kind of is. But often, that's the way you as an employer or as a person who needs to find someone to provide a service can take a big shortcut.
But there are exceptions. I once hired a lawyer a few years back who was a friend of mine and that was a huge, huge mistake. The lawyer was a really nice person and knew what he was talking about, but when it came to actually working for me, was terrible. Very nice guy, someone I trust, but I'd never recommend his services to anyone.
On the other hand, I once had a fantastic dentist that I met at church. So why wouldn't I go to a dentist I know instead of a complete stranger? Luckily, he was good, too.
And networking doesn't just happen in business. Many activists are constantly networking, and form coalitions based on what they know of other activists through groups, circles, etc. From what I've seen, labour union activists shmooze with others, and certainly progressive politics is full of networking.
As Sven says - it's human society. I understand not liking the fact that the person who is best at making useless small talk at parties and hospitality suites ends up with the most contacts and connections and opportunities, but I doubt it's going to change as long as human beings are social animals.
[ 09 January 2008: Message edited by: Michelle ]
Wed, 2008-01-09 04:51
#19
Lard Tunderin Jeezus
I think Francesca's point is: Golf is her boss' (and possibly the office's) activity of choice, and the golf course is where decisions are being made without her.
In her milieu, I'd take up golf.
Wed, 2008-01-09 06:51
#20
Here's a free golf lesson:
If your boss says he is out of the office and on his cell this afternoon, he's golfing.
If he says he's out of the office and unavailable, he's golfing and too drunk to talk.
Learn to play hardball. Then you won't have to suck up on the golf course. [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img] You won't win regardless-if you are a lousy golfer,they'll dump on you and if you are good,they'll find a way to avoid you.
Its amazing how far these weiners will go to win. One executive, who took a lot of lessons,had the latest graphite drivers and practiced a lot would surreptitiously use a tee on his second shot. He was good,better than the rest of the 4some, but needed to crush the opposition.
I saved some time by showing up drunk,carrying a 5 iron and a bent putter,had a great time and threw the cheater off his game so bad that he wanted to strangle me. They were after my business or I would not have been there.
Most business golfers are herd animals advancing themselves,not lovers of the sport and it shows.
Wed, 2008-01-09 06:59
#21
quote:
Originally posted by jester:
[b]I saved some time by showing up drunk,carrying a 5 iron and a bent putter,had a great time and threw the cheater off his game so bad that he wanted to strangle me. They were after my business or I would not have been there.[/b]
That's awesome.
[img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img]
Wed, 2008-01-09 10:02
#22
rural - Francesca
I've play two sets of 9 holes in my life, the second set, I was so hammered the rest of the staff took turns looking after me.
I'd just come through a very public work related scandal and needed to blow steam.
They all knew it and just made sure I didn't do anything too extreme.
They were very amused as I'm usually very much the professional and always on my best behaviour.
Since I wrote this piece, I've changed jobs and I'm now and Executive Director of a charity. I have board members who golf but it's not an issue, and naturally I have golf tournaments but most are 3rd party and I don't actually have to attend.
Wed, 2008-01-09 11:44
#23
I love charity golf tournaments where I can interact with society ladies and make small talk like:
"Rather than cleaning out the stale dated pate' and artichoke hearts out of your pantry,you can easily afford to fill that oversized pimp ride with fresh fruit and veggies for the food bank. And for less than you spent on golf shoes! Keep your eyes on the ball and don't turn your head when you snarl."
Wed, 2008-01-09 12:16
#24
[waxing nostalgia]
As elitist a sport golf can be ... okay, as elitist a sport golf IS, it truly is the worlds purest sport around and the best test of ones character. Worth the insane amount of wasted time.
I had to quit golf a couple years back, when I started university, since the cost of the sport went way up, and my available money went way down.
Thu, 2008-01-10 06:12
#25
When benefits are extended based on social connections, this precludes involvement or competition by those who are not as socially connected to the person exercising the influence. This is a form of entrenched discrimination based not only on relative merit and social networking / golf skills, as the rhetoric would have it, but also or primarily on class, race, sex, age, physical ability, language and ethnicity. So by buying into the culture of cronyism I think we are endorsing the system that concentrates economic and political power in the hands of the privileged.
[ 10 January 2008: Message edited by: triciamarie ]
Thu, 2008-01-10 07:04
#26
quote:
Originally posted by triciamarie:
[b]When benefits are extended based on social connections, this precludes involvement or competition by those who are not as socially connected to the person exercising the influence. This is a form of entrenched discrimination based not only on relative ability and social networking / golf skills, as the rhetoric would have it, but also or primarily on class, race, sex, age, physical ability, language and ethnicity. So by buying into the culture of cronyism I think we are endorsing the system that concentrates economic and political power in the hands of the privileged.[ 10 January 2008: Message edited by: triciamarie ][/b]
Excellent post.
People who truly love golf come from all walks of life and they play a totally different game.
The golf gig is used to separate and nurture the tools and stooges useful for continuing the concentration from those who may have undesirable qualities like integrity or principles.
Thu, 2008-01-10 07:16
#27
Triciamarie, I think most of us would agree with you that using connections to exercise influence is unethical. It happens all the time, and it's not going to stop, but it's still unethical.
Where some of us are conflicting with you is in your equation of [i]networking[/i] with [i]having someone else exercise influence[/i]. Networking is far more about establishing channels for information, and occasionally just for having access to people themselves.
eg.
I met an accountant at a party, I wonder if I could ask him whether something I bought is tax deductible.
I met an accountant at a party, I wonder if he would be interested in buying a new kind of copier I'm selling.
I met an accountant at a party, I wonder if he could get me an interview at his firm.
Obviously the third one is unethical, though few people would refuse to use that option if it was available.
Think about what Sven posted earlier. The question "Do you know any good divorce lawyers?" is an example of using a social network for economic gain.
Thu, 2008-01-10 16:27
#28
quote:
Originally posted by Proaxiom:
[b]Think about what Sven posted earlier. The question "Do you know any good divorce lawyers?" is an example of using a social network for economic gain.[/b]
As I responded earlier, just because a lawyer is recommended to you, does not necessarily mean that this is a good lawyer. If you're smart you will do your homework to ensure that whoever you're considering is interested in your type of case, they have good experience, you can communicate with them, they are able to address the potential benefits and risks of your matter, you have common expectations regarding time frame and cost and responsiveness and who will be handling your case and so on. You might ask another lawyer for an initial recommendation but you should never hire a lawyer based on a schmoozy referral alone because that is no assurance of merit.
And that is my point about networking.
[ 10 January 2008: Message edited by: triciamarie ]
Thu, 2008-01-10 17:14
#29
Sven
quote:
Originally posted by triciamarie:
[b]You might ask another lawyer for an initial recommendation but you should never hire a lawyer based on a schmoozy referral alone because that is no assurance of merit.[/b]
If you know and trust the lawyer from whom you are asking for a referral, then it’s not going to be a “schmoozy referral”. People who ask me for a divorce lawyer referral ask me because they trust me and my judgment and know that I’m going to refer them to someone that I would use myself.
Most people can’t judge whether a lawyer is excellent, competent or incompetent. A person usually chooses a lawyer, in the absence of a trusted referral, based on whether or not there’s “good chemistry” between that person and the lawyer. Basically, “Do I like her?” A lawyer may be a “swell guy” and appear to know exactly what to say and do, but he could be incompetent and most people wouldn’t know the difference.
I know little about criminal law and I don’t know any criminal defense lawyers well. But, if a family member was charged with a serious crime, I would use my network of trusted people to find a very good criminal lawyer. A friend of mine is a “big city” criminal prosecutor in the county which includes St. Paul. She’s been a criminal prosecutor for over thirty years. I’d call her in a heartbeat because she knows who is a very good, and who is a very bad, criminal defense lawyer.
It’s the same with finding a roofer. Or a surgeon. Or an employee.
Basing an important decision on a sterile, two-dimensional C.V. is a crap-shoot.
[ 10 January 2008: Message edited by: Sven ]
Thu, 2008-01-10 19:42
#30
Networking is the heart of a community. But not golf.
When my kids were in school and I was a school trustee, my network was the rink. I watched my son play hockey, and my daughter figure-skate. And I heard about parents' school concerns even before the principal did.
And I heard who was a good roofer. And who had had bad experience with certain lawyers who shall go nameless.
If you don't have kids skating, you have friends who do, and you have a local junior hockey team you can go cheer for. More fun than golf, and cheaper.
Sun, 2008-01-13 10:48
#31
When my kids were younger I learned that the source of all wisdom was Saturday morning soccer games. All the parents were there and that included people that were notoriously difficult to catch in the office.