JDL sues Canadian Arab Federation for libel

Wed, 2008-03-12 12:52

aka Mycroft

quote:

Originally posted by ohara:
[b] Meir Weinstein a Canadian citizen not today involved with the American jdl[/b]

First of all ohara, the evidence on the American JDL website suggests Weinstein *is* involved in the American JDL. Secondly, Weinstein has been involved with the JDL since the late 1970s, including the decades that the "American JDL" was involved in terrorist activity (activity which only stopped when the group basically collapsed as a result of Rubin's arrest and suicide in 2002). Third, Rubin was up here and presumably worked with Weinstein (Indeed, according to the police, they went to the site of the Zundel bunker together a few days after it was firebombed) and Rubin as JDL Chairman, evidently, spent time in Montreal recruiting for the JDL, despite the fact that Montreal is within "JDL Canada's" territory. So Weinstein will have to go to court and argue that even though he was in the JDL for decades, brought or tried to bring JDL officials to Canada he was not involved with the US JDL.

And that's without even touching upon Weinstein's involvement with the terrorist Kach group and any links he may have with its off-shoots.

That's a tall order and I think your lawyer friend is assuming a lot if he seriously thinks that Weinstein can convince a court that he had nothing to do with the US JDL and that the Canadian and US groups are just namesakes. At the very least Weinstein will have a lot of 'splaining to do about his activities for the last few decades and will have to disclose a lot of documentary material.

In any case ohara, you have not answered my question:

Do you think the JDL has been a terrorist organization? What about racist? Or supremacist?

[ 12 March 2008: Message edited by: aka Mycroft ]

Wed, 2008-03-12 13:06

#53

aka Mycroft

Given the murky circumstances surrounding Weinstein if, by some miracle, he wins a lawsuit it will only be after spending tens of thousands of dollars on legal fees and it will only be a "technical" victory in which he's awarded a symbolic fee like $1. Frankly, given his associations, given the actual wording of the SPHR statement and given the FBI evidence on the JDL I don't see how he can win.

Wed, 2008-03-12 13:08

#54

ohara

I dont know how to characterize the jdl and given the litigation going on I refuse to put Babble in any jeopardy by answering your questions now.

Secondly all your foofara is meaningless. Weinstein has no criminal record., has never been charged with terrorist activities. Thats it AKA there aint no more no matter how much you wish it to be so.

Wed, 2008-03-12 13:14

#55

aka Mycroft

Ohara, can you say with a straight face that you believe the "Canadian JDL" has never had anything to do with the "American JDL"?

Wed, 2008-03-12 13:15

#56

Cueball

Anyway, I guess that brings us back to if Wienstien was standing next to one of his know "terrorist" associates, and was killed off as "collateral damage" in an effort to "ferret out" terrorists, would that be immoral?

Wed, 2008-03-12 13:18

#57

ohara

quote:

Originally posted by aka Mycroft:
[b]Ohara, can you say with a straight face that you believe the "Canadian JDL" has never had anything to do with the "American JDL"?[/b]

Firstly I never said that, secondly I said it doesnt really matter. Get some glasses

Wed, 2008-03-12 13:19

#58

Cueball

I think it would immoral, what about you O'hara?

Wed, 2008-03-12 13:23

#59

Michelle

So I guess, then, if someone started a Canadian Hamas, that would be a-okay, right?

Wed, 2008-03-12 13:32

#60

ohara

I suppose it depends on our own government and our laws now doesnt it? And you know I love the way you try to side track this. We were discussing a lawsuit brought on by Weinstein and its sustainability. Michelle (a moderator yet) decides to move this into yet another sphere. Michelle why dont you open a thread with that question so we can stay focussed on the thread. Thanks for your cooperation.

Wed, 2008-03-12 13:33

#61

Cueball

Or some Arabs tried to get a licence from the CRTC.

Wed, 2008-03-12 13:35

#62

Cueball

quote:

Originally posted by ohara:
[b]I suppose it depends on our own government and our laws now doesnt it? And you know I love the way you try to side track this. We were discussing a lawsuit brought on by Weinstein and its sustainability. Michelle (a moderator yet) decides to move this into yet another sphere. Michelle why dont you open a thread with that question so we can stay focussed on the thread. Thanks for your cooperation.[/b]

Good point. We are digressing. You were about to enlighten us with your view on the morality or immorality of Weinstien ending up as collateral damage in an operation designed to ferret out his known terrorist associates?

[ 12 March 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]

Wed, 2008-03-12 13:44

#63

ohara

You have all gone off the rails. I guess that is what happens when you begin to understand that this may not be a frivolous lawsuit.

Wed, 2008-03-12 13:45

#64

Coyote

quote:

Originally posted by ohara:
[b]I dont know how to characterize the jdl and given the litigation going on I refuse to put Babble in any jeopardy by answering your questions now.
Secondly all your foofara is meaningless. Weinstein has no criminal record., has never been charged with terrorist activities. Thats it AKA there aint no more no matter how much you wish it to be so.[/b]

Well, let's hope he doesn't get held on a security certificate simply on suspicion of association with terrorists. I mean, that would just terrible.

Wed, 2008-03-12 13:46

#65

Cueball

quote:

Originally posted by ohara:
[b]You have all gone off the rails. I guess that is what happens when you begin to understand that this may not be a frivolous lawsuit.[/b]

All I understand is that you have spent the afternoon sitting in your office defending the JDL of Baruch Goldstein. That is clear enough.

Wed, 2008-03-12 13:50

#66

ohara

wow you must have a camera and everything!!! Defending is not the word I choose. This was a legal discussion on the sustainability of a lawsuit. Nothing more. That you want to inflate it into much more is your problem not mine

Wed, 2008-03-12 13:52

#67

Cueball

I don't need a camera. I have a clock. That tells me everything I need to know.

Wed, 2008-03-12 13:56

#68

Cueball

Actually I was wrong, you have been defending the JDL of Baruch Goldstein since 10:00 am in the morning. All day now.

Wed, 2008-03-12 13:58

#69

ohara

You are wrong on all counts. I have engaged in a discussion on legal tactics. Any reasonable reading of the thread would point that out.

Wed, 2008-03-12 14:08

#70

Cueball

A "legal" tactic is claming no interest, while vigorously defending on technical grounds.

Wed, 2008-03-12 14:26

#71

ohara

Cueball maybe you forget, this is a discussion board. I have an interest in legal matters. akamycroft and I began this discussion on the viability of this lawsuit.

Forget it...hard to discuss with someone who has a one-track mind

Wed, 2008-03-12 14:30

#72

remind

quote:

Originally posted by ohara:
[b]...hard to discuss with someone who has a one-track mind[/b]

Well, now you know how some of us feel when dealing with you.

Wed, 2008-03-12 14:41

#73

ohara

That's original...this thread has veered way off course...Mods show some sympathy and end its life...Once it seemed clear that the legal arguments i put forward seemed real i guess it had to be derailed

Wed, 2008-03-12 14:53

#74

aka Mycroft

quote:

Originally posted by ohara:
[b]Firstly I never said that, secondly I said it doesnt really matter. Get some glasses[/b]

Of course it matters, you said:

quote:

The FBI statements are immaterial as applied directly to Meir Weinstein a Canadian citizen not today involved with the American jdl

The American JDL has been described as a terrorist organization by an agency of the US government. Your defence of Weinstein is predicated on the assumption that Weinstein's "JDL Canada" has nothing to do with the US outfit and that he is "not today involved with the American JDL" so of course it matters whether or not the American JDL and the Canadian JDL are in fact the same organization.

So, I ask you again:

Ohara, can you say with a straight face that you believe the "Canadian JDL" has never had anything to do with the "American JDL"?

[ 12 March 2008: Message edited by: aka Mycroft ]

Wed, 2008-03-12 14:58

#75

kropotkin1951

Ohara maybe you should ask your libel lawyer what the net effect of their withdrawing the post immediately and the fact they had a valid reason for thinking this was the case because the FBI told them so. Seems to me the lawyers will have a field day unless as I suspect a behind the scenes truce on this front is called. Neither side seems to have an open and shut slam dunk winner (enough cliches for everyone)and the damages would not amount too much. After all this is a fringe group calling another fringe group into disrespect. Hard to damage a reputation if you don't have one.

Wed, 2008-03-12 15:00

#76

aka Mycroft

Ohara, I also think your choice of words that Weinstein is "not today involved with the American jdl" is interesting. Do you concede that Weinstein has been involved in the "American JDL" in the past? Would this not be during one of the decades (say, the 80s) when the FBI described the JDL as the "the second most active terrorist group in the United States"?

[ 12 March 2008: Message edited by: aka Mycroft ]

Wed, 2008-03-12 15:57

#77

aka Mycroft

quote:

Originally posted by kropotkin1951:
[b] After all this is a fringe group calling another fringe group into disrespect. Hard to damage a reputation if you don't have one.[/b]

It's not accurate to call CAF a "fringe group". A recent leader of CAF now sits as a Liberal MP. The current head ran for the NDP in the last provincial election. CAF is basically the Arab equivalent of the CJC.

Wed, 2008-03-12 16:22

#78

kropotkin1951

Well ask the MSM they will tell you the NDP federally is a fringe party.

Wed, 2008-03-12 16:38

#79

jrootham

quote:

Originally posted by ohara:
[b]You are wrong on all counts. I have engaged in a discussion on legal tactics. Any reasonable reading of the thread would point that out.[/b]

This is just flat wrong. Any reasonable reading of the thread would convict you of the behaviour that you are accused of.

Wed, 2008-03-12 16:44

#80

aka Mycroft

quote:

Originally posted by ohara:
Michelle, to be clear only one of the JDL protestors made that stupid remark.

You weren't there so how do you know?

[ 12 March 2008: Message edited by: aka Mycroft ]

Wed, 2008-03-12 18:16

#81

Michelle

It said so in the article, I think.

Thu, 2008-03-13 04:17

#82

johnpauljones

I am really loving the conversation in this thread. It is really a bloody shame that this thread actually was missing one very important point.

Their was a racist act at Ryerson University. How soon we all can forget about that one little fact.

As far as I know through the media no one has been charged with committing the act.

Yet we have had an entire thread about 3 paragraphs in a release. 3 paragraphs that some are in agreement should never have been put in the release.

The lawsuit by the JDL would never have happened if the SPHR and CAF had stopped and used its brains to think.

Both groups are smarter than this episode lets on.

While debating JDL seems to be fun. It is sad that the real issue can be avoided.
That issue is the issue of racism on campuses across the GTA.

In the last couple of weeks we have had anti-semetic vandalism at York and racist based arson at Ryerson.

Thu, 2008-03-13 05:23

#83

ohara

quote:

Originally posted by jrootham:
[b]
This is just flat wrong. Any reasonable reading of the thread would convict you of the behaviour that you are accused of.[/b]

I challenge you to show me one post where I wasnt discussing legal tactics.

Thu, 2008-03-13 06:41

#84

aka Mycroft

I'd be impressed if you could show one post where your criticisms of the JDL extended beyond saying "I'm no fan".

Thu, 2008-03-13 06:59

#85

Cueball

quote:

Originally posted by johnpauljones:
[b]I am really loving the conversation in this thread. It is really a bloody shame that this thread actually was missing one very important point.
Their was a racist act at Ryerson University. How soon we all can forget about that one little fact.
As far as I know through the media no one has been charged with committing the act.
Yet we have had an entire thread about 3 paragraphs in a release. 3 paragraphs that some are in agreement should never have been put in the release.
The lawsuit by the JDL would never have happened if the SPHR and CAF had stopped and used its brains to think.
Both groups are smarter than this episode lets on.
While debating JDL seems to be fun. It is sad that the real issue can be avoided.
That issue is the issue of racism on campuses across the GTA.
In the last couple of weeks we have had anti-semetic vandalism at York and racist based arson at Ryerson.[/b]

Thanks for making this point.

Thu, 2008-03-13 07:45

#86

ohara

quote:

Originally posted by aka Mycroft:
[b]I'd be impressed if you could show one post where your criticisms of the JDL extended beyond saying "I'm no fan".[/b]

I thought that the constant demand for "oaths of loyalty" were frowned upon at Babble. Ive made myself clear on the jdl, Its time , like jpj has reminded us both to change the channel.

JDL sues Canadian Arab Federation for libel

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