Just here for some viewpoints
Wed, 2008-03-19 05:19
#1
Just here for some viewpoints
Wed, 2008-03-19 05:19
#2
Cueball and I were having a discussion and the issue of reparations to native Canadians came up.
"Cueball:
Now if you want to confront this issue on a different level, why not head on over to the Aboriginal Issues forum and discuss it with Native Canadians"
So I guess my question is, are the people of Canada treating the native Canadians fairly?
Thank you.
Wed, 2008-03-19 05:25
#3
No.
See all the other threads in this forum for details.
Wed, 2008-03-19 06:02
#4
There numerous threads on here where you can easily discover that the answer is no.
Wed, 2008-03-19 06:05
#5
That's what I thought, but wanted to get some native Canadian opinions first.
So, as native Canadians, what do you think should be done? Is it giving money or land or apology or something else?
Thank you
Wed, 2008-03-19 06:10
#6
Le T
giving = returning what continues to be stolen?
Wed, 2008-03-19 06:21
#7
remind
quote:
Originally posted by pk34th45:
[b]That's what I thought, but wanted to get some native Canadian opinions first.[/b]
Uh, respectfully, the respectful way to get some "native" Canadian opinions is to read the prior threads in this forum, and then ask questions should you have any after you have read them, and not demand that your questions be answered.
Also, in Canada we do not refer to First Nations as "natives". Aboriginal or First Nations would be good or abbreviate to FN's.
Wed, 2008-03-19 06:28
#8
quote:
Originally posted by remind:
[b]Also, in Canada we do not refer to First Nations as "natives". Aboriginal or First Nations would be good or abbreviate to FN's.[/b]
Sorry, that was how Cueball referred to FNs. I was copying him.
Wed, 2008-03-19 06:43
#9
Le T
First Nation is actaully the term that some communities use for the community. Some people call themselves First Nations people, or First People, or Native people, or Aboriginal people, or Indigneous people. Those of course are unspecific terms and many Native people reffer to themselves with a more specific name that they have given themselves, like Anishnabe or Kanyen'ke:ha, etc.
The terms Aborginal and Indian are also legal terms in the [i]Indian Act[/i] and the Constitution.
Wed, 2008-03-19 06:51
#10
Known around the world as Holland (actually just provinces), real name the Kingdom of Netherlands, and of course the language and people are known as Dutch! [img]confused.gif" border="0[/img]
I understand how it can be complicated.
Wed, 2008-03-19 06:54
#11
Maysie
What Le Tйlйspectateur said. Edited to add that some FN people identify based on their community (such as Cree, Ojibway, Metis) or by clan (such as Bear, Blood).
Also, those of us who were born in Canada, but are not Aboriginal/First Nations, don't generally refer to ourselves as native Canadians.
There are a few First Nations/Aboriginal posters on babble. If you read past threads in this forum, pk3, you will find where posters identify themselves.
[ 19 March 2008: Message edited by: bigcitygal ]
Wed, 2008-03-19 06:54
#12
Le T
Usually comparisons between colonial states/kingdoms and Indigenous Peoples are discuraged in the AIandC forum.
Wed, 2008-03-19 06:55
#13
Nomenclature can be a minefield.
Wed, 2008-03-19 07:01
#14
N.Beltov
quote:
Le Tйlйspectateur: Usually comparisons between colonial states/kingdoms and Indigenous Peoples are discouraged in the AIandC forum.
Really? Do you agree with that policy (if that's what it is)?
[ 19 March 2008: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]
Wed, 2008-03-19 07:08
#15
Le T
Thanks for correcting my spelling, I love it when people do that.
The comparison of The Netherlands being called Holland and the hundreds of different peoples being called Indians (and the repercussions of that naming) is not one that should be made in the forum. It amounts to the same thing as reverse racism.
Edited to further comply with Standard English
[ 19 March 2008: Message edited by: Le Tйlйspectateur ]
Wed, 2008-03-19 07:16
#16
N.Beltov
OK, Le Tйlйspectateur .... I thought you were making a different sort of claim, not having to do with naming but having to do with making use of an analysis of colonial/imperialism in the different cases. [i]mea culpa.[/i]
P.S. I've corrected the correction.
Wed, 2008-03-19 07:23
#17
Le T
naming is a big part of colonialism - I'm not sure I follow your reply. Can you expand?
Wed, 2008-03-19 07:33
#18
N.Beltov
Sure. I thought you were arguing that colonial or anti-imperialist analyses should be excluded from being made use of in AI and C threads. Canada's history, after all, includes the status of colonial outpost of the British Empire.
Wed, 2008-03-19 09:13
#19
Hmm... being an Anishnabe, it’s hard to perceive the question as being anything other than rhetorical or perhaps just naive. Learning and understanding are more about challenging one’s self than challenging others.
But the question is vague. What do you mean by ‘treated fairly’? And at what level are you asking the question? Personal? Community? Tribal? National? Or just ‘natives’ in general? I guess I’m wondering if this is a serious question.
However, all things consider I’d answer no.
Wed, 2008-03-19 16:23
#20
quote:
However, all things consider I’d answer no.
ditto.
Wed, 2008-03-19 18:13
#21
And I don't think they ever have.
Thu, 2008-03-20 12:50
#22
Makwa
I have been struggling with this for some days now. I don't find it valuable for an outsider to be querying FN people for their own entertainment or elucidation, unless they have a specific point to address. Unlike others, whom I have observed on other, less intelligent BBs (which shall remain nameless) I do not find it useful nor uplifting to constantly try to teach those who are either in conflict with FN ideals or simply unaware. Although I shan't pursue the point at this time, I would prefer that the FN forum not be used as an educational resource for those who choose not to seek enlightenment among many published texts, preferably by FN authors. Perhaps some FN people would care to offer some suggestions, but that is completely up to them.
Thu, 2008-03-20 13:34
#23
Great reply Makwa, especially since I believe this thread was opened just so the person could show the superiority of his own country.
He's using us to prove some kind of a point. It's just wrong.
Thu, 2008-03-20 16:26
#24
quote:
Originally posted by Stargazer:
[b]He's using us to prove some kind of a point.[/b]
Possibly. Or he may simply be following Cueball's suggestion. It's not often that we have someone living in Europe posting on babble, so I try to give them the benefit of the doubt when they're new.
(Since I'm not aboriginal, apologies for any thread derailing.)
[ 20 March 2008: Message edited by: Wilf Day ]
Thu, 2008-03-20 21:09
#25
quote:
Originally posted by Stargazer:
[b]Great reply Makwa, especially since I believe this thread was opened just so the person could show the superiority of his own country.
[/b]
Hi Stargazer. You've been proven wrong 3 times already when it comes to accusations you have made about me. This makes it four.
I truly do wish to learn more about FNs. All we get in Europe is the standard "Indians treated poorly, land stolen, no hope" narative, which from what I am reading is not the whole story.
I admit I have not read all the posts in this particular forum. There are alot.
It takes time to learn 500 years of European and FN history.
Thank you
[ 20 March 2008: Message edited by: pk34th45 ]
Thu, 2008-03-20 21:41
#26
Think "Canadian apartheid", pk34th45. Canada is world renowned for its abuse of indigenous people.
Fri, 2008-03-21 02:22
#27
Makwa
quote:
Originally posted by pk34th45:
[b]Hi Stargazer. You've been proven wrong 3 times already when it comes to accusations you have made about me. This makes it four.[/b]
By opening your post in a condescending way towards one of our most respected First Nations posters, you reduce your opportunity to get any constructive replies to your questions. Feel free to disagree, but please do so politely and respectfully. While posting in the Aboriginal Issues forum, please be aware that this is a space for Aboriginal people to discuss issues from their perspective, and it is particularly intended that FN people feel safe to post here. I would suggest that if you actually want to learn more about the indiginous peoples of Turtle Island, you would do well to take some time to read some of the earlier posts.
Fri, 2008-03-21 02:34
#28
Makwa
quote:
Originally posted by Le Tйlйspectateur:
[b]Some people call themselves ... Indigneous people. [/b]
Of course, indigneous people are also called "Grandfathers," and are used to heat the water to steam in a sweatlodge. Or is that Igneous people? (Then again, some people call me the space cowboy ... dadadadadada) [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img]
Fri, 2008-03-21 03:58
#29
quote:
Hi Stargazer. You've been proven wrong 3 times already when it comes to accusations you have made about me.
Thanks Makwa, but I'd like to address this.
To Pk*** :you may not be a right wing troll (the jury is istill out on that one). However, I am completely right in that you are an an xenonphobic person with a chip on his shoulder and a constant need to prove cultural superiority.
I don't think I should have to dig up the numerous threads in which you have proclaimed your superior "progressive" nationalism.
And unlike the others, I really do not believe you care about FN issues, except in the context of using this thread to prove the above. I may be wrong, but I don't think so, especially given this thread was only opened so you could continue with your natioanlistic jargon (while using FN people's stories to do it).
Fri, 2008-03-21 04:12
#30
quote:
Originally posted by Stargazer:
[b]However, I am completely right in that you are an an xenonphobic person [/b]
Yes, those xenon headlights sure scare me when I'm on my bike at night.
[img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img]
And no I'm not xenophobic. And no I have no "chip" on my shoulder.
Fri, 2008-03-21 04:33
#31
You've been asked by the moderator of this forum to be respectful of Aboriginal voices here. At this point, you're trolling. So, this is the second moderator telling you to be respectful in this forum, or don't post here at all.
Fri, 2008-03-21 05:10
#32
OOps, damn, no grammar checker.
Okay look, let's call a truce. All I ask of you is that you cease and desist on the uber nationalism front and that you and whoever stop using FN people as a means to extol your respective countries crappy treatment towards those people whose lives and/or cultures have been ruined.
I think that is a fair deal.
Fri, 2008-03-21 05:40
#33
Agreed.
[ 21 March 2008: Message edited by: pk34th45 ]