The Criminilization of Sexuality

The age of consent is 14 in canada with it being allowed even younger if the two participants are close in age (2-3 years I think). But its 14 for everything else so a 60yr old could date a 14yr old unless they are in a position of power of the teen then it defaults to 18 for consent (teacher, minister, babysitter, boss, etc)

It's a social matter if people are "deciding" that it's okay for someone to commit statutory rape on a kid, as long as they manage to convince the kid to say yes somehow.

There have to be SOME rules in place to protect children from predators.

I don't believe in criminalizing kids. But what Boze seems to be suggesting is that it's an entirely private suggestion. So, hey, a 7 year-old "decides" s/he wants to have sex with a 30 year old? Hey, that's a private matter!

I'm sure that's not what Boze is saying, but it shows that there have to be SOME rules. Because unfortunately, there ARE adults out there who will victimize children sexually.

The younger you can start conditioning kids to obey the law...the better.

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I was wondering what people thought about consent laws both in Canada and the US. If I am not mistaken the age of consent in Canada was recently raised to 16. Although there is some sort of extended age bracket for those under 18 or something.

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[url=http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2007/11/08/ot-petition-071108.html]MP offers prize to teens who peddle his petition[/url]

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An Ottawa MP [Conservative Pierre Poiliиvre] is drawing fire for offering teenagers a chance to win a $1,000 scholarship if they write an essay — and collect 25 signatures on a petition to raise the age of sexual consent from 14 to 16.

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Whatever happened to charging adults like this with "contributing to juvenile delinquency"?

Discussing what the age of consent should be seems so arbitrary when you consider how early on kids are sexualized. When a young girl is raised on the sexually covert messages of artists like Britney Spears, it makes one wonder if an age limit would be able to do anything to stop young people from being sexually active. It seems especially hopeless when you consider that so much of the marketing industry is based on young people being sexualized and buying into exactly what age of consent is attemptng to protect youth from.

No, the existing law was already sufficient deterrent to sexual predators.

The "intent" behind this law was political posturing by a conservative government that wants to look as if it's doing something to protect people when in reality it's doing nothing of the sort.

This point begs the question as to wether or not the law as a meanns of enforcement can be a solution to this problem, without basicly allowing the police to do random raids into peoples homes without a warrant, or greatly increasing surveliance overall. I think, it might be wise to focus more on social development, as opposed to jack boots.

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Originally posted by Ghislaine:
[b]Who supports the right of people over the age of 21 being in legal sexual relationships with 14 and 15 yr olds?????[/b]

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I do, so long as there is no relationship of trust, authority, or dependency between them, and they both consent.

That, in fact, was what the law provided before this new completely unnecessary amendment.

By the way, we've been through all the arguments before. [url=http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=005787]He..., for instance.

Why do you get to play morality cop with other people's consensual sex?

Um, yeah. For some people, these are not just hypothetical 'what-ifs'.

eta: For a typical 14-year-old, simply [b]being[/b] a 21-year-old is enough to put you in a position of trust and authority.

[ 06 May 2008: Message edited by: Stephen Gordon ]

I don't see how that matters. Why would a gay 21-year-old get a pass for getting involved with a 14-year-old?

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Originally posted by Stephen Gordon:
For a typical 14-year-old, simply [b]being[/b] a 21-year-old is enough to put you in a position of trust and authority.

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How about if I link to a cool comic?

[img]http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/dating_pools.png[/img]

(21/2) + 7 > 14

It's just creepy.

Irrelevant? Get over yourself. I asked you a question. Got an answer?

N. Beltov, you are a willfully ignorant hack. Or just stupid; I'll leave the choice to you.

I'm applying *exactly* the same criteria to gays and straights.

You know, this isn't a game for some people.

That's really hilarious coming from a self-described [i]piсata[/i], Professor.

I take it, therefore, that you have NOTHING to say about the difficulties faced by young queers who, faced with the social shunning (or worse) attached to their sexual orientation, choose to start their sexual lives with older, but safer, partners.

Arrest them, or their partners anyway. That seems to be your answer. How "progressive".

[ 06 May 2008: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]

What do you mean, "on both sides of the line", j r?

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Originally posted by N.Beltov:
[b]What do you mean, "on both sides of the line", j r?[/b]

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Sorry, I was responding to Stephen. I was assuming that was referring to young people people having sex with older people and having bad outcomes. I was pointing out that for some people the new bad outcome is criminal charges.

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Originally posted by M. Spector:
[b]You can tell your underage daughter whatever you want about what she can or can't do. That's up to you.

But we're not talking parent's rights here, and we're not talking about your specific personal case. That's your own business, not ours.

What we are talking about is the criminalizing of consensual sexual activity where there is no relationship of trust, authority, or dependency involved. Maybe you could direct your arguments to that issue, without trying to personalize it to Your Rights As A Mom.[/b]

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So sorry, lost my mind for a moment and forgot you have no sense of humour. The "right of Mom" comment was a joke, however, as Stephen pointed out, this is a less theoretical question for some of us than it is for others.

It's idiotic to expect that a 14 or 15 yr old isn't going to put more faith and trust in someone significantly older than is wise. It can't be an equal relationship. There is too much developmental difference there. So I have no problem with charging a 21 yr old who would take advantage of a 14 yr old sexually.

Now, if we're talking about me, personally, any 21 yr old who laid a finger on my 14 yr old daughter (heck, even quite a bit older than 14) had better pray the authorities get to him before I do.

And I'm sorry, N. Beltov, that goes for both heterosexual and homosexual orientations. There is an inherent imbalance of power.

Oh for shame, N. Beltov. Show some integrity. When I make the point, you accuse me of homophobia. When a moderator makes the *exact same point*, you meekly back down.

Well perhaps I can be of some service here, when I was 20 I slept with a 14 year old. I don't really feel bad about it at all. Nor do I think there is anything odd about younger people seeking out older people to have sex with, as part of their secual experimentation. This was very much her "show" and she was very explicit about losing her virginity to me, and I was very reticent to do it. In fact I demured for the longest time. In fact it was much more about the "losing it" thing than it was about me, as I remember it. She was as they say "precocious". This is not to say that I did not encourage the attraction because I most certainly did, and I was flattered and enjoyed the experience.

Does the fact that she was very close to 15 and I close to 21 change the dymanics of the relationship? In fact, as I remember it the difference in age between 14 and 18 was enormous gap in terms of esteem and social power. Grade 6 students look up to grade 7 and 8 students like they are gods, in a way that 20 year olds simply do not look up to 22 years olds.

17 year olds routinely abuse their younger associates, and in fact date rape is fairly common in these age categories. Of course people who are 20 are supposed to be adults... well ok... in some fashion that is truly different than that of a 19 year old?

Really?

I think a lot of this has to do with development of the individuals involved, and that emotional context simply can not be defined by arbitrary age categories, though obviously there are going to be clear power dynamics when you are dealing with people who are of different emotional stages of development. I am not really sure if this is not really true in almost any human encounter, whatever the reason for the power imbalance, be it age, or social status otherwise aquired through fame or wealth.

I think its very difficult to make a kind of definition that says this is bad because there is an "unequal power balance" because this is almost universally true in any relationship. Sex is a highly emotionalizing experience, and people often feel very vulnerable when they are experiencing a serious physical attraction for someone, and this almost alway results in feelings of powerlessness of some kind or another, so I hardly think that the relative imbalance of "power" can be used to determine that some sex is bad.

If someone did not look up to the person they were having sex with in some fashion or another, then I'd say that was a pretty weird sexual relationship. Power dynamics can always be exploited of course, but just because they [i]can[/i] be, does not mean that they [i]are[/i] being exploited.

As for my experience, my friend and I went on to be good friends for a ten years, and even now we are occassionally in touch.

[ 06 May 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]

I was accused of homophobia; I was annoyed, and I think I had a right to be.