Here's just another thought to throw into the mix.
Human's have been living/working with/using had a relationship with domesticatic animals for likely thousands of years.
There are/have been a diversity of different breeds of things like Chickens, sheep, ducks, cattle, swine etc etc.
If people all gave up meat and became vegan..no animal products many if not most of these would simply become extinct. In fact right now many breeds are at extinction level with in some cases only several hundred animals in existence.
This mostly because of the development of the the types of chickens and breeds used in factory farming. The similar sort of homogenization of our food systems that's happened with veggies and the loss of upwards of 80% of the vareties that were available 100 years ago.
Just wondering how people feel about actual extinction of types of these animals that humans have had a relationship with for eons.
I don't mean it to be an uber provocative question that's suggesting anything one way or another about people's different food choices. I myself was veggie at one time and aimed to be vegan. Changed though for a number of reasons.
I'm just interested in pondering the ethics and some of the questions behind the mere existence of these animals in the first place. There's talk about sentience and responsibility. Do we have a responsibility to ensure them living in the first place? Especially considered that there mere existence is because of the relationship that humans have with them for eons. Or is it okay to simply let them die out of existence because they are no longer necessary. If say we moved to a point where we simply conserved for the sake of their own life itself, like say pets is that viable in a ecological sense?
I'm not saying I have the answers either, ethically speaking. Some of these questions I've been pondering myself.
For instance Micheal brought up this point in reference to Farmpunks comments about organic farming.
quote:
Finally, regarding your comment about organic farms and cow dung: how much of the food we're producing, and the manure required to grow this food, is devoted to maintaining livestock? How much food could we raise if we decided to make better use of, for example, human waste, or the waste from animals we chose not to slaughter (and treated with greater consideration)?
Many of these comments are actually things I considered myself in my own life in setting up a small sustainable homestead within the framework of permaculture and creating the circular and ecological system of waste to food to waste to food and so on. What I learned though when I got into the nuts and bolts of ecologically and basic biological principles of the not only human but the lifecyle of the animals themselves is that it is not so easy to just say..no killing..just use the waste. In order to perpetuate the very existence of the animals over the long term in both health and welfare both physical and psychological it's not necessarily a good option to say leave and let be.
For instance, ever seen a flock of chickens with a over abundance of roosters? It can get really nasty. Like lots of death and carnage type nasty. The roosters will fight and kill each other for dominance and breeding rights. There is nothing unatural about this either. Feral and wild chickens act the same way. So in relation to humans, if we leave and let be do we just let it happen or do we integrate in with the natural tenedecies that happen anyway and create a relationship that can provide benefits for both us and the animals.
In the case of roosters a small flock owner generally will cull the males for food when they are big enough.
Now in factory farming systems it's another story, the male chicks as soon as they are able to be sexed are pretty much killed and thrown out in the garbage.
I actually seriously considered the possibility of having a chicken flock that could provide the waste for the overall system as well other things like weeding and pest control and not introduce killing into the cycle. I also wanted to be a part of trying to conserve some of the breeds that are facing extinction. That was before I understood the life cycle and nature of the animals themselves in terms of their own birth and death cycles as well as health and welfare. Genetics, in terms of breeding and inbreeding is also important..that plays into the overall health of the animals as well as the potential to keep having babies and existing perpetually. Short term no killing would work, but long term, the sustainability of the animals themselves is another question entirely.
I'm not that knowledgeable about other domesticatic animals but I expect the patterns are similar.
I also want to make it clear that I'm speaking about the existence of animals in a non-factory or industrial type operation.