Just wanting to point out conclusions others came up with and what my thoughts were on this issue. You may not like it but there it is.
You can call it nasty others have other thoughts on this issue. Have a nice day regardless.
Racism at the YMCA of Greater Toronto
Tue, 2008-05-27 10:39
#52
Tue, 2008-05-27 11:08
#53
Michael Hardner
quote:
I see nothing wrong with telling an institution that they need to improve their anti-racism policies and practices, if that is your opinion.
Of course there's nothing wrong with that, but that's not what's happening. Accusations are being made without clear accounting of how it was reported and what actions were taken.
If such things were being said in casual conversation, I for one would ask a few questions.
Tue, 2008-05-27 11:20
#54
Cueball
quote:
Originally posted by Makwa:
[b]This site is not enmasse. At this point, Seddig is merely relating their personal experience and their proposed actions. I see nothing wrong with telling an institution that they need to improve their anti-racism policies and practices, if that is your opinion. I have known people of colour who have worked at the YMCA and have spoken about racism. Seddig and the others who are supporting this action may well be sock-puppet creations, but unless I have IP evidence of my own to support this allegation, which I have not yet determined, I will give Seddig the benefit of the doubt.[/b]
Regardless of wether or not the experiences related are true, I think it is pretty evident that the process for investigating and dealing with racism are clearly a problem. The fact is that it appears that the "why" does not have a sufficiently evolved independent mechanism for establishing if such charges are true or not.
What has been stated here is that there is no specific process, and what process there is basicly refers the complaint back to the person who the complaint is about. This is not sufficient.
No one has stepped forward to show that the YMCA does in fact have an alternate and indpendent process of invetsigating possible racism, this in itself might even be construed as racist, given that we live in a racist society, and considering that the YMCA is a sufficiently large and established organization that should at the very least have some sort of established independent process for dealing with racism.
Tue, 2008-05-27 11:27
#55
Makwa
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Hardner:
[b]Of course there's nothing wrong with that, but that's not what's happening. Accusations are being made without clear accounting of how it was reported and what actions were taken. ... If such things were being said in casual conversation, I for one would ask a few questions.[/b]
In that case, I am relieved that you have not engaged me in casual conversation, as that sounds kind of confrontational. If a POC or an FN person mentioned in passing to me that they think institution X is racist, I would simply listen to what they had to say, without automatically questioning their perception or credibility or forcing them to supply detailed particulars.
Seddig has indicated that she and others have cause to believe that the YMCA has a particular bias regarding racism and accusations of racism, and are lobbying them to develop better anti-racist policies and procedures. She doesn't appear to want to get into specifics on a public board, and I see no reason to insist that she does.
If we are to provide a 'balanced' view such that every instance of racism that is identified by an FN or POC is constantly challenged, then I suggest we simply fold up this forum altogether as a nice idea, but unrealistic.
PS: Nicely written, Cueball.
[ 27 May 2008: Message edited by: Makwa ]
Tue, 2008-05-27 11:30
#56
Michael Hardner
quote:
In that case, I am relieved that you have not engaged me in casual conversation, as that sounds kind of confrontational. If a POC or an FN person mentioned in passing to me that they think institution X is racist, I would simply listen to what they had to say, without automatically questioning their perception or credibility or forcing them to supply detailed particulars.
You don't seem to understand. We're talking about INCIDENTS here. I'm not talking about questioning credibility, I'm talking about asking questions so that I can make a decision for myself.
quote:
Seddig has indicated that she and others have cause to believe that the YMCA has a particular bias regarding racism and accusations of racism, and are lobbying them to develop better anti-racist policies and procedures. She doesn't appear to want to get into specifics on a public board, and I see no reason to insist that she does.
If we are to provide a 'balanced' view such that every instance of racism that is identified by an FN or POS is constantly challenged, then I suggest we simply fold up this forum altogether as a nice idea, but unrealistic.
If you were accused of racism, wouldn't you want the opportunity to respond ? It's only fair.
Tue, 2008-05-27 11:40
#57
Makwa
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Hardner:
[b]If you were accused of racism, wouldn't you want the opportunity to respond ? It's only fair.[/b]
I think we criticize individuals, politicians and governments with almost every post here without seeking comment from 'the other side'. You are free to ask Seddig to provide clarification, and anyone is welcome to try to get the Y's side. If you have information which would demonstrate the Y's committment to anti-racist practice, it would be wonderful if you would bring it forward. However, it seems to me that there is a particular defensiveness that arises when any POC or FN makes a declaration of racist behavior or systems.
Tue, 2008-05-27 11:45
#58
This thread proves to me that an extremely well worded and formulated letter using all the right pc buzzwords can bypass the logical brain function and get people to emotionally react like parrots especially the called "intelligent" and "academic" and "left wing" posters here. Please provide even a little bit more proof and evidence instead of generalities of what you speak of in the letter or else to me this is a brilliant example and proof itself of manipulating the so called left wing intelligensia. You can just copy the generic body of this letter, personalize it a little and apply it to any and all institutions and government offices in Canada and label them "racists" also. Why just stop at the YMCA why not launch a preemptive attack on all institutions in Canada. Ridiculous really. Yes and nasty also.
Tue, 2008-05-27 11:45
#59
Michael Hardner
quote:
I think we criticize individuals, politicians and governments with almost every post here without seeking comment from 'the other side'. You are free to ask Seddig to provide clarification, and anyone is welcome to try to get the Y's side. If you have information which would demonstrate the Y's committment to anti-racist practice, it would be wonderful if you would bring it forward. However, it seems to me that there is a particular defensiveness that arises when any POC or FN makes a declaration of racist behavior or systems.
Makwa,
We don't criticize people for things that they haven't been proven to have done. When we do, as with the 9/11 conspiracy theories, it's controversial.
They should at least be given a chance to respond to what is being said, shouldn't they ? Otherwise anyone can say anything about anyone.
There's enough proven discrimination out there for us to discuss and act on to keep us all busy. [img]smile.gif" border="0[/img]
Tue, 2008-05-27 11:59
#60
Makwa
quote:
Originally posted by lukeskywalker:
[b]You can just copy the generic body of this letter, personalize it a little and apply it to any and all institutions and government offices in Canada and label them "racists" also. Why just stop at the YMCA why not launch a preemptive attack on all institutions in Canada. [/b]
Good idea. Sounds about right to me. It's about time that most institutions in Canada take a good look at the institutionalized racism that pervades much of our society. All major business and bureacracies should have an independent anti-racist policy that has measurable results. Thanks for the suggestion. However, do tone down the snarking at 'left wing intellectuals' would you, it lowers the tone of what is otherwise an excellent idea.
Tue, 2008-05-27 12:21
#61
Makwa
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Hardner:
[b]We don't criticize people for things that they haven't been proven to have done.[/b]
Sigh. Anyway, were I to state that it is a fact that I have been handled with violence at the hands of security guards and police in the past, would you really demand 'proof'? If a person has indicated that they have suffered from an assault or an indiginity from an unnamed individual would you demand 'proof'? Surely, as long as a statement is not libellous, we can give babblers some benefit of doubt?
Tue, 2008-05-27 12:56
#62
Michael Hardner
Makwa,
quote:
Sigh. Anyway, were I to state that it is a fact that I have been handled with violence at the hands of security guards and police in the past, would you really demand 'proof'?
No.
quote:
If a person has indicated that they have suffered from an assault or an indiginity from an unnamed individual would you demand 'proof'? Surely, as long as a statement is not libellous, we can give babblers some benefit of doubt?
I think that libel involves individuals, not organizations. No one is demanding proof, just asking questions. Surely if somebody is bringing up these points, they want the issues brought to light and possibly even something to be done about them.
Tue, 2008-05-27 13:09
#63
Good posts Makawa and Cueball.
I don’t want to quote anything from those who are afraid of anti-racist policies and actions to avoid engaging them or giving them more credibly than they deserve. So just asking, Is it so difficult to understand that two people who very clearly shown that they know each other may visit each other and use each other’s computer to check emails or write posts?
But lets get to the important issues. I want to ask other people's opinion about the following:
On an anti-racism board someone is trying to promote anti-racist ideas and engage an organization to develop anti-racist policies. First a white male comes on the board and say they never seen anyone experiencing racism at this organization nor that any person of colour that they knew at this establishment while using their services told them that they experienced racism. Then a person who claims to be a person of colour come on board and say similar things. What do you think of that? What would be the purpose of this kind of post on an anti-racism board?
What happens when a woman tries to promote sexual assault/harassment prevention policies and measures on a feminist board, and a man comes on the board and say that they never witnessed anyone experience sexual assault/harassment and no-one ever told them they experienced sexual assault? Then a woman comes on board and say similar things.
What purpose this kind of comments fulfill?
Tue, 2008-05-27 15:25
#64
Cueball
Well, I had the same problem over there when a friend of mines account was banned, for sock-puppetry. In fact Skywalker fellow has substantially misrepresented point of the policy. Simply put they ban all secondary accounts from the same IP. That is the policy. I haven't looked over at the board to see what is going on, but such a procedure is just standard, and not necessarily directly related to the content of the whatever is being posted, so it is not the case that "they are sharp enough to see through the falsehoods of the sock puppets posting there."
It is a policy, the policy has some problems I believe, but to charachterize it as an outrigtht rejection of the position of the letter, and Seddig and Noor is not necessarily accurate.
Tue, 2008-05-27 15:43
#65
/thread drift/ I post to enmasse (occasionally) as well as to babble. When fools over there, or over here, criticize the other board, I call them out. Both boards have progressive-minded people who (for reasons I will never succeed in understanding) have decided to ghettoize their conversations. But attacking another board reminds me of those who judge a person by what political party one thinks they support. It's infantile, splittist, reactionary, and dangerous./drift off/
[ 27 May 2008: Message edited by: unionist ]
Tue, 2008-05-27 15:59
#66
I don't really care about their policy and the fact they banned a person. this wasn't even a case of two accounts formed from the same IP. A person with a pre-exiting account who was offended by racism wanted to post something, so what?
I don't know how wide spread this kind of policies are among on-line services but this is problematic for families like mine. we have one account for all of us and we also have our relatives stay with us once in while who use the same computer. all our family members and relatives are very vocal about our opinion so these kind of things are barriers and can happen once in a while. I am not worried about the posts of a person who is obviously threatened by anti-racist actions nor that anyone is worried about being suspended or banned from other site.
Even if both accounts were from the same IP still the fact remains that the Y doesn't have anti-racist policies and an organizational structure to support anti-racist practices.
After reading their posts it became clear that their anti-racism board is dominated by white folks who see themsleves as beign entitled to "tell" peopel of colour how they shoudl approach racism and who they should consider as their supporters I made sure I made my position clear about their atitude toward people of colour who write about racism and then stop posting and reading that forum.
I didn't have any intention of investing my energy in posting on a board that anti-racism is controled by white people.
They suspended my account because they thought I was "aggressive".
So it is not a lost for anyone at all.
[ 27 May 2008: Message edited by: Seddig ]
Tue, 2008-05-27 16:01
#67
Maysie
Just a side note re. organizational change and applying anti-racism policies into action. The one part of organizational AR training that is most often missing is systemic accountability and implementation pieces, integrated at every level, from front line staff, to managers, directors, board of directors. This includes job descriptions, performance evaluations, how board recruitment is done, outreach to clients/members, etc, etc.
AR and AO knowledge, values, and practices then get institutionalized, just the way racist values are institutionalized currently. Yes it's massive change, but it's what needs to happen.
Training is not enough.
Many AR educators make lots of money coming for monthly or annual trainings. The organization can say "We've had monthly trainings for the past X years, so we're good" and the AR educator can say "Cha-ching!". And nothing changes.
Tue, 2008-05-27 16:16
#68
quote:
Originally posted by bigcitygal:
[b]
AR and AO knowledge, values, and practices then get institutionalized, just the way racist values are institutionalized currently. Yes it's massive change, but it's what needs to happen.Training is not enough.
[/b]
I couldn’t agree with you any more bigcitygal.
Tue, 2008-05-27 17:03
#69
Makwa
quote:
Originally posted by Seddig:
[b]After reading their posts it became clear that their anti-racism board is dominated by white folks who see themsleves as beign entitled to "tell" peopel of colour how they shoudl approach racism and who they should consider as their supporters I made sure I made my position clear about their atitude toward people of colour who write about racism and then stop posting and reading that forum.I didn't have any intention of investing my energy in posting on a board that anti-racism is controled by white people. [/b]
Good luck in finding that forum. Do let us know how it goes.
Tue, 2008-05-27 17:23
#70
I am wondering what is going on here. Even prior to lukeSkywalker's interesting post I was wondering if we had the same person posting under different names. I counted three before Luke's post. It just seemed obvious to me. I could be entirely wrong however.
As to the substance; I am against institutionalized racism.
errrr..to be honest; I am actually against institutionalized anything :-)
And then too I am not a believer in the efficacy of posted policy memos. I think they are shrugged off by the majority of readers who are forced to read them by their employers.Typically none of us will ever believe they apply to us.
The Y has changed since I was a kid. It does seem to cater to those with more available cash than it used to that's for sure. Obviously, something in their mandate has altered over the years but I wonder how racist it really is.
I see a lot of allegations here, all of which may be true but [b]I also[/b] would benefit from hearing some specifics.
Honestly I am just shaking my head over this.
[img]eek.gif" border="0[/img]
Tue, 2008-05-27 17:30
#71
Cueball
Let's ignore the accussations of sock-puppetry for a while ok?
In your view a complaint process that is circular is appropriate? In that if I raise a complaint to an organization about a supervisor or manager, that complaint is referred back to the same supervisor or manager who the complaint is about.
This is, in fact, a detail of the [i]specific[/i] complaint you have asked for.
[ 27 May 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]
Tue, 2008-05-27 17:41
#72
quote:
Originally posted by Unbiased:
[b]Honestly I am just shaking my head over this.
[img]eek.gif" border="0[/img] [/b]
and [b]now [/b]that I read the forum at "that other place" !!!!
[img]eek.gif" border="0[/img] [img]eek.gif" border="0[/img] [img]eek.gif" border="0[/img] [img]eek.gif" border="0[/img] [img]eek.gif" border="0[/img] [img]eek.gif" border="0[/img] [img]eek.gif" border="0[/img]
I highly recommend scrolling up to luke's post and checking the link.
tooooo funny.
gullibility check in order
Tue, 2008-05-27 17:54
#73
Cueball
Rather than just deciding to find any possible ways to discredit the claim and the people making the claim and playing with the rather limited smiley function of the this board, why don't you consider the claim:
quote:
And how do I feel about the YMCA? They suck even worse than before. They chose to not even dignify my complaint, or follow process.
[url=http://forum.canadianparents.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&... Parents.[/url]
Again, the complaint is "no process."
[ 27 May 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]
Tue, 2008-05-27 18:01
#74
quote:
Originally posted by Makwa:
[b]Good luck in finding that forum. Do let us know how it goes.[/b]
I know Makawa what you mean. anytime poc and AP start to speak they are told how to speak and what to say.
I wish people question a person who is trying to stop anti-racist policies and what they have to loose and their intent instead of trying to convince them. this way it is their intent which is being questioned and not the anti-racist movement. however as soon as poc and AP start to do that they are called aggressive but actions to stop our efforts to change the system is acceptable.
[ 27 May 2008: Message edited by: Seddig ]
Tue, 2008-05-27 18:05
#75
quote:
I loved how 'noor' and 'Seddig', while maintaining the flimsiest illusion that they were somehow different people, also had exactly the same idiosyncratic way of (mis)using the quote function.Between that, the identical IP address, and their perfect agreement on everything (really, always, the first sign of a potential sock puppet) I think it's pretty clear.
Mind you, babble doesn't want to believe noor/Seddig is a sock puppet until there's DNA evidence. Well, that's the text, anyway. Personally I think the subtext is that they don't want to look like they're "silencing" a POC, though why they'd believe a sock puppet about their POC status is unclear.
Tue, 2008-05-27 18:26
#76
Cueball
And focus on the specific identity of this poster are really moot, and also a distraction that is begining to border deliberately obscuring the issue, since this charge was also raised by [b]Anne-Anne, Fitness Instructor, Noise[/b] and [b]Makwa[/b] all of whom report racism present at the YMCA, experienced directly or reported to them.
The sock-puppet issue I am sure has been noted by the moderators, and I am sure they will deal with it when and if it is necessary, but the general complaint of several posters is now to be dismissed because some anonymous guy who has never posted here before comes along to "warn" us here.
Who is Lukeskywalker, and why should we trust him in particular? This is bullshit, in the face of several posts from many quarters, expressed in clearly different styles and under different names.
Or is Noise a Sedding sock-puppet too?
[ 27 May 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]
Tue, 2008-05-27 18:29
#77
Today a young person was telling me that they feel discouraged that racism is such as big problem that can’t be dismantled and they feel that how loud we try to speak there are always racists forces that are much louder than ours.
I told them that the racist voices may be forceful but we are equipped with our determination, and strong analysis.
I hope public can see the nature of the problems at the Y by reading the words of support for them. And how they can’t address the situation by proepr logic and analysis (becasue there is no jsutification for what is happening) and instead are looking for other ways to bully anti-racist voices into silent. Some one brings a example of lack of process for complaint at the YMCA but we don't hear any resposne to that.
Wed, 2008-05-28 03:33
#78
quote:
I loved how 'noor' and 'Seddig', while maintaining the flimsiest illusion that they were somehow different people, also had exactly the same idiosyncratic way of (mis)using the quote function.Between that, the identical IP address, and their perfect agreement on everything (really, always, the first sign of a potential sock puppet) I think it's pretty clear.
Mind you, babble doesn't want to believe noor/Seddig is a sock puppet until there's DNA evidence. Well, that's the text, anyway. Personally I think the subtext is that they don't want to look like they're "silencing" a POC, though why they'd believe a sock puppet about their POC status is unclear.
You realize who you are quoting here right? This person is not exactly a bastion of progressive thought.
Wed, 2008-05-28 05:51
#79
So is it a consensus, then, among babblers that the use of sock puppets is acceptible if it's in the service of the greater good?
quote:
And focus on the specific identity of this poster are really moot, and also a distraction that is begining to border deliberately obscuring the issue, since this charge was also raised by Anne-Anne, Fitness Instructor, Noise and Makwa all of whom report racism present at the YMCA, experienced directly or reported to them.
Surely racism is pervasive enough that the Y would not be immune.
Question is, do we encourage a discussion started by a sock puppet who makes vague allegations and seems to bear a grudge that may not have anything to do with racism?
Wed, 2008-05-28 05:57
#80
Cueball
And who has established that there is indeed a sock puppet? You? Some guy on the interweb called Lukeskywalker. The policy of another board? Have you read that policy? How does it apply here?
Does use of the same IP by two seperate accounts indicates sock-pupptery? Does this board allow such multiple use of the same IP by different people? I think it does.
Wed, 2008-05-28 07:04
#81
Makwa
quote:
Originally posted by Sineed:
[b]Question is, do we encourage a discussion started by a sock puppet who makes vague allegations and seems to bear a grudge that may not have anything to do with racism?[/b]
Sineed, you disappoint me somewhat with this approach, especially as you have already acknowledged that systemic racism turns up everywhere. If I had seen any issue around IP adresses, I promise you I would have adressed it long ago, and I promise you I did check. Without further indications, I am not interested in pursuing it further. Now can we leave this be? (ps: i would kill for an auto spell check)
[ 28 May 2008: Message edited by: Makwa ]
Wed, 2008-05-28 11:15
#82
Just to add onto what Makwa has said...
I don't give a damn who says what or does what on En Masse. I like many of the people over there, and Tehanu in particular is fabulous, but that forum is not this forum and I don't want people dragging disputes from there here. Nor do I want people trashing that forum here. If you have a problem with something that has happened there, deal with it there.
There is no reason for the moderators on babble to believe that Seddig and noor are sock-puppets. Last I heard, lots of people have spouses, sisters, brothers, parents, and children living in the same house as them, and using the same computer. It stands to reason that if one person has had a racist experience, then most likely they'll talk to their spouse about it. Their spouse might even have been with them when they had that bad experience. Heck, their spouse might even want to talk about it.
So the automatic conclusion I came to (and I realize this is a big strange assumption [img]rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] ) was that they knew each other and were either working together on this issue, or that perhaps they're related or spouses. Sometimes, when a man and a woman love each other very much, they live in the same place! And use the same computer! I know this sounds kind of icky, but some day maybe you'll want to do that too. (Okay, I'm being facetious now - Seddig and Noor, forgive me if you're not actually a married couple, I'm just raising that as a possibility, but the fact is, I really don't care what, if any, familial or friendship relationship there might be between you.)
Neither of them have violated babble policy and neither of them deserve the attacks they're receiving here. If you want to attack them on some other board, please, go right ahead, I have nothing to say about that and other forums can run any way they please.
But you will NOT drag those attacks onto this board. lukeskywalker, this is your first and last warning to keep your attacks to yourself, otherwise YOU will be the one who is gone.
[ 28 May 2008: Message edited by: Michelle ]
Wed, 2008-05-28 13:13
#83
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
[b]Just to add onto what Makwa has said...So the automatic conclusion I came to (and I realize this is a big strange assumption [img]rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] ) was that they knew each other and were either working together on this issue, or that perhaps they're related or spouses.
[ 28 May 2008: Message edited by: Michelle ][/b]
edited to add: good assumption Michelle.
When person "A" says that there is something forthcoming and in response to that person "B" posts what was promised and claerly indicates "as promised" then they are very clearly stating that they know each other. The techniques that are used to hang onto the status que by trying to put people who speak out against racism in negetive light are just amazing.
Ontario Court of Appeal (R.V.Parks, 1993)states:
"Racism and in particular anti-black racism, is part of our community's psyche. A significant segment of our community holds overtly racist views. A much larger segment subconsciously operates on the basis of negative racial stereotypes. ......... These elements combine to infect our society as a whole with the evil of racism." (edited to add the " for clarity)
In a society that undeniably racism is a big problem it is absolutley essential to ask for implementable anti-racist policies and practices. Specially for an organization such as YMCA which is receiving funding to serve youth, Aboriginal Peoples, new comers to Canada, and low income.
The extent that some would go to stop anti-racist actions and how they try to defelct attention from the problem by trying to put those who speak out against racism in negetive light only shows the depth of racism and the size of the problem.
Edited to add: I have the paper copy of the rulling which I printed while ago. I have to search the "canLL" to find the electronic copy and will post when I find it.
[ 28 May 2008: Message edited by: Seddig ]
[ 28 May 2008: Message edited by: Seddig ]
Wed, 2008-05-28 13:15
#84
Cueball
Where does the quote begin and end. Moreover, can we have the link?
Wed, 2008-05-28 13:33
#85
R V. Parks is the famous automatism case or the sleepwalking case in which the defendant killed his parents-in law.
[url=http://scc.lexum.umontreal.ca/en/1992/1992rcs2-871/1992rcs2-871.html]htt...
I remember this case well.
Here is the relevant citation for the case Sedding provided above:.
quote:
What is Racism?Racism according to the Ontario Human Rights commission refers to “any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social cultural or any other field of public life.”
In addition, in R. V. Parks (1993), 15 O.R. (3d) 324 at 342 the Ontario Court of appeal stated that “Racism, and in particular anti-black racism, is a part of our community's psyche. A significant segment of our community holds overtly racist views. A much larger segment subconsciously operates on the basis of negative racial stereotypes. Furthermore, our institutions, including the criminal justice system, reflect and perpetuate those negative stereotypes. These elements combine to infect our society as a whole with the evil of racism.”
It is important to note that the courts are yet to fully appreciate the severity of the forms of discriminations as experienced by the disabled community which we established earlier. The same courts are yet to acknowledge the forms of discriminations as experienced by the racialized communities, including the disabled ethno cultural community. This demonstrates the sheer magnitude of the challenges experienced by the racialized disabled ethno cultural communities. As reflected by a recent Ipsos-Reid survey commissioned by the Dominion Institute “one in six Canadian adults report that they have personally been the victims of racism. Moreover, approximately one in ten Canadian adults would not welcome people from another race as next-door neighbours.” Like the general racialized communities, the racialized disabled communities are subjected to “words that describe racialized persons as a “minority” assume that white people are the predominant population group which is an inaccurate portrayal of most countries in the world and, increasingly, of many areas in Canada. A term which applies to all people who are not seen as White by the dominant group, generally used by racialized groups as an alternative is the term visible minority. It emphasizes that skin colour is a key consideration in the “everyday” experiences of their lives.”
[url=http://tinyurl.com/3sxoej]Tiny URL[/url]
[ 28 May 2008: Message edited by: Stargazer ]
Wed, 2010-06-09 09:45
#86
I stand by you. I tried to contact u on the other site seddig...the bread and roses. It would not let me. so i signed up for this one. I work for the ymca and I am going through the same thing there. Everything you are saying I stand behind you 100 percent. The unfair treatments...the scandals with the charity money, I KNOW ABOUT ALL OF THAT. Please do not hesitate to contact me. Ignore the people who don't believe you. As long as the word is out and you and I both know it's the truth. Alot of my co workers know too because we work for them. People who are not in it would not know unless you tell them. anyways contact me.
Wed, 2010-06-09 10:17
#87
Iagree, can you give us examples of the racisim you're dealing with?
Tue, 2010-06-22 21:34
#88
iagree, I think the breadandroses displayed their true selves by their reaction to concerns about racism - They got very defensive very fast one wonders why?
Racism in YMCA is clearly a big problem however they have been able to keep it quiet because of some of the examples we have seen on these sites - as soon as they hear about racism they want to silent whoever speaks about it.
Good for you for speaking out.
Mon, 2012-07-09 20:23
#89
talk about racism at the YMCA of Toronto see this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eslvfiuOJk8
why are the staff trying to stop people taping the arrest? what are they afraid of. YMCA of Toronto is known for it ongoing to force people of colour to finding their place and staying there. If they speak out for themselves they get banned from there.
They kicked out a woman of colour from there establishment because she was breast feeding her baby. their reasoning was "this is a family establishment" what is more family oriented than breast feeding your baby?
what a shame that so many people have no other place other than the Y and in spite of all the bigotry by YMCA of Toronto still have to use that their establishments.
Mon, 2012-07-09 20:33
#90