Why has the NDP lost ground in Toronto?
Sat, 2008-10-18 22:56
#1
Why has the NDP lost ground in Toronto?
Sat, 2008-10-18 22:56
#2
NDP vote in 2004, 2006 and 2008 in the Old City of Toronto ridings:
B-EY: 32.2%, 35.0%, 32.2%
Danforth: 46.4%, 48.4%, 45.0%
Dav.: 34.1%, 32.6%, 31.3%
P-HP: 34.5%, 40.4%, 36.0%
SP: 15.7%, 19.2%, 13.3%
TC: 23.7%, 23.7%, 15.1%
T-S: 42.0%, 46.0%, 40.9%
It was pretty depressing to be in High Park that night, and Olivia didn't do as well as expected either (if a more popular Lib leader were there - they might have taken it back). It seems that the Greens have eaten into the NDP vote in Toronto, perhaps drawing from the urban middle class progressive vote that Layton was initially accused by many of being too aligned with.
Sat, 2008-10-18 22:56
#3
NDP vote in 2004, 2006 and 2008 in the Old City of Toronto ridings:
B-EY: 32.2%, 35.0%, 32.2%
Danforth: 46.4%, 48.4%, 45.0%
Dav.: 34.1%, 32.6%, 31.3%
P-HP: 34.5%, 40.4%, 36.0%
SP: 15.7%, 19.2%, 13.3%
TC: 23.7%, 23.7%, 15.1%
T-S: 42.0%, 46.0%, 40.9%
It was pretty depressing to be in High Park that night, and Olivia didn't do as well as expected either (if a more popular Lib leader were there - they might have taken it back). It seems that the Greens have eaten into the NDP vote in Toronto, perhaps drawing from the urban middle class progressive vote that Layton was initially accused by many of being too aligned with.
Sat, 2008-10-18 22:56
#4
NDP vote in 2004, 2006 and 2008 in the Old City of Toronto ridings:
B-EY: 32.2%, 35.0%, 32.2%
Danforth: 46.4%, 48.4%, 45.0%
Dav.: 34.1%, 32.6%, 31.3%
P-HP: 34.5%, 40.4%, 36.0%
SP: 15.7%, 19.2%, 13.3%
TC: 23.7%, 23.7%, 15.1%
T-S: 42.0%, 46.0%, 40.9%
It was pretty depressing to be in High Park that night, and Olivia didn't do as well as expected either (if a more popular Lib leader were there - they might have taken it back). It seems that the Greens have eaten into the NDP vote in Toronto, perhaps drawing from the urban middle class progressive vote that Layton was initially accused by many of being too aligned with.
Sun, 2008-10-19 19:32
#5
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Palmerston:
[b]NDP vote in 2004, 2006 and 2008 in the Old City of Toronto ridings:B-EY: 32.2%, 35.0%, 32.2%
Danforth: 46.4%, 48.4%, 45.0%
Dav.: 34.1%, 32.6%, 31.3%
P-HP: 34.5%, 40.4%, 36.0%
SP: 15.7%, 19.2%, 13.3%
TC: 23.7%, 23.7%, 15.1%
T-S: 42.0%, 46.0%, 40.9%[/b]
I suppose we might as well add 2007's provincial numbers for good measure...
B-EY: 44.32%
T-Dan: 45.85%
Davenport: 36.49%
P-HP: 44.71%
StP: 15.74%
TC: 18.82%
T-S: 41.15%
And for the heck of it, for the total overview, other Toronto seats (+ 2007 provincial)...
DVE: 13.2%, 12.9%, 13.3% (10.6%)
DVW: 8.6%. 9.1%. 10.2% (4.7%)
Eg-L: 10.4%, 11.5%. 8.4% (10.0%)
EtC: 9.9%, 9.6%, 8.3% (8.4%)
EtL: 14.5%, 15.6%, 11.7% (13.3%)
EtN: 12.2%, 10.6%, 15.7% (14.9%)
P-SE: 11.2%, 11.6%, 10.6% (11.2%)
ScA: 10.2%, 11.1%, 9.3% (10.5%)
ScC: 16.8%, 14.0%, 15.8% (13.3%)
ScG: 16.2%, 14.2%, 14.4% (21.9%)
ScRR: 9.3%, 10.8%, 14.7% (13.7%)
ScSW: 22.3%, 23.1%, 18.8% (18.1%)
Wil: 9.6%, 11.4%, 10.2% (8.3%)
YC: 13.7%, 13.6%, 12.1% (10.9%)
YSW: 21.2%, 21.3%, 28.0% (41.5%)
YW: 15.3%, 14.1%, 18.7% (28.0%)
I offer that sans commentary (for now, if only to save energy)
Sun, 2008-10-19 19:32
#6
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Palmerston:
[b]NDP vote in 2004, 2006 and 2008 in the Old City of Toronto ridings:B-EY: 32.2%, 35.0%, 32.2%
Danforth: 46.4%, 48.4%, 45.0%
Dav.: 34.1%, 32.6%, 31.3%
P-HP: 34.5%, 40.4%, 36.0%
SP: 15.7%, 19.2%, 13.3%
TC: 23.7%, 23.7%, 15.1%
T-S: 42.0%, 46.0%, 40.9%[/b]
I suppose we might as well add 2007's provincial numbers for good measure...
B-EY: 44.32%
T-Dan: 45.85%
Davenport: 36.49%
P-HP: 44.71%
StP: 15.74%
TC: 18.82%
T-S: 41.15%
And for the heck of it, for the total overview, other Toronto seats (+ 2007 provincial)...
DVE: 13.2%, 12.9%, 13.3% (10.6%)
DVW: 8.6%. 9.1%. 10.2% (4.7%)
Eg-L: 10.4%, 11.5%. 8.4% (10.0%)
EtC: 9.9%, 9.6%, 8.3% (8.4%)
EtL: 14.5%, 15.6%, 11.7% (13.3%)
EtN: 12.2%, 10.6%, 15.7% (14.9%)
P-SE: 11.2%, 11.6%, 10.6% (11.2%)
ScA: 10.2%, 11.1%, 9.3% (10.5%)
ScC: 16.8%, 14.0%, 15.8% (13.3%)
ScG: 16.2%, 14.2%, 14.4% (21.9%)
ScRR: 9.3%, 10.8%, 14.7% (13.7%)
ScSW: 22.3%, 23.1%, 18.8% (18.1%)
Wil: 9.6%, 11.4%, 10.2% (8.3%)
YC: 13.7%, 13.6%, 12.1% (10.9%)
YSW: 21.2%, 21.3%, 28.0% (41.5%)
YW: 15.3%, 14.1%, 18.7% (28.0%)
I offer that sans commentary (for now, if only to save energy)
Sun, 2008-10-19 19:32
#7
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Palmerston:
[b]NDP vote in 2004, 2006 and 2008 in the Old City of Toronto ridings:B-EY: 32.2%, 35.0%, 32.2%
Danforth: 46.4%, 48.4%, 45.0%
Dav.: 34.1%, 32.6%, 31.3%
P-HP: 34.5%, 40.4%, 36.0%
SP: 15.7%, 19.2%, 13.3%
TC: 23.7%, 23.7%, 15.1%
T-S: 42.0%, 46.0%, 40.9%[/b]
I suppose we might as well add 2007's provincial numbers for good measure...
B-EY: 44.32%
T-Dan: 45.85%
Davenport: 36.49%
P-HP: 44.71%
StP: 15.74%
TC: 18.82%
T-S: 41.15%
And for the heck of it, for the total overview, other Toronto seats (+ 2007 provincial)...
DVE: 13.2%, 12.9%, 13.3% (10.6%)
DVW: 8.6%. 9.1%. 10.2% (4.7%)
Eg-L: 10.4%, 11.5%. 8.4% (10.0%)
EtC: 9.9%, 9.6%, 8.3% (8.4%)
EtL: 14.5%, 15.6%, 11.7% (13.3%)
EtN: 12.2%, 10.6%, 15.7% (14.9%)
P-SE: 11.2%, 11.6%, 10.6% (11.2%)
ScA: 10.2%, 11.1%, 9.3% (10.5%)
ScC: 16.8%, 14.0%, 15.8% (13.3%)
ScG: 16.2%, 14.2%, 14.4% (21.9%)
ScRR: 9.3%, 10.8%, 14.7% (13.7%)
ScSW: 22.3%, 23.1%, 18.8% (18.1%)
Wil: 9.6%, 11.4%, 10.2% (8.3%)
YC: 13.7%, 13.6%, 12.1% (10.9%)
YSW: 21.2%, 21.3%, 28.0% (41.5%)
YW: 15.3%, 14.1%, 18.7% (28.0%)
I offer that sans commentary (for now, if only to save energy)
Mon, 2008-10-20 08:20
#8
I think that there are a few things going on here.
One is that having the so-called green party at something 10% in Toronto reduces the available number of votes for all parties. The NDP vote may be stagnant - but so is the Liberal vote. In fact the Liberal vote took a pretty big hit in Trinity-Spadina and Danforth this time as well.
The one bright spot for the NDP in Toronto was York South-Weston where the vote went up a lot this time.
I think that more and more Toronto is seceding from the rest of Canada in terms of having its own unique voting pattern that is completely different from the rest of Ontario (let alone the rest of Canada).
For the NDP, I think that there are probably two factors that create challenges in Toronto:
1. You cannot underestimate the impact of having a shamelessly pro-Liberal partisan rag like the Toronto Star as the main daily paper - and when day after day after day, the main daily paper reads like it was written by Liberal Party spin-doctors - it has to have some impact.
2. This election more than ever, the NDP under Layton ran a very class-based economically populist campaign. I think that this was the right thing to do under the circumstances and it was instrumental in sweeping northern Ontario and cementing the NDP lock on Hamilton, Windsor etc... and gaining ground in poorer and more blue collar ridings across Canada. BUT, in Toronto you have a population of largely white collar wannabes who just don't relate to that kind of messaging as well. The NDP base in Toronto such that it exists includes a lot of "creative class" professionals and teachers and nurses etc... and a lot of glitterati who like the NDP to be some esoteric pseudo-Green Party. When Jack Layton talks about "the kitchen table, not the boardroom table" - it is a great success in St. John's, Thunder Bay, Hamilton, Thompson and Windsor - bit you can almost hear all the snooty Margaret Atwood types turning up their noses in horror. Incomes in Toronto tend to be a lot higher than the national average too.
It would be nice to please everyone, but in the end, the NDP is first and foremost a party that defends the interest of working class people and if we have to choose between gearing our message towards winning the votes of working class people or winning back Margaret Atwood - I think the former has to take precedence.
Mon, 2008-10-20 08:20
#9
I think that there are a few things going on here.
One is that having the so-called green party at something 10% in Toronto reduces the available number of votes for all parties. The NDP vote may be stagnant - but so is the Liberal vote. In fact the Liberal vote took a pretty big hit in Trinity-Spadina and Danforth this time as well.
The one bright spot for the NDP in Toronto was York South-Weston where the vote went up a lot this time.
I think that more and more Toronto is seceding from the rest of Canada in terms of having its own unique voting pattern that is completely different from the rest of Ontario (let alone the rest of Canada).
For the NDP, I think that there are probably two factors that create challenges in Toronto:
1. You cannot underestimate the impact of having a shamelessly pro-Liberal partisan rag like the Toronto Star as the main daily paper - and when day after day after day, the main daily paper reads like it was written by Liberal Party spin-doctors - it has to have some impact.
2. This election more than ever, the NDP under Layton ran a very class-based economically populist campaign. I think that this was the right thing to do under the circumstances and it was instrumental in sweeping northern Ontario and cementing the NDP lock on Hamilton, Windsor etc... and gaining ground in poorer and more blue collar ridings across Canada. BUT, in Toronto you have a population of largely white collar wannabes who just don't relate to that kind of messaging as well. The NDP base in Toronto such that it exists includes a lot of "creative class" professionals and teachers and nurses etc... and a lot of glitterati who like the NDP to be some esoteric pseudo-Green Party. When Jack Layton talks about "the kitchen table, not the boardroom table" - it is a great success in St. John's, Thunder Bay, Hamilton, Thompson and Windsor - bit you can almost hear all the snooty Margaret Atwood types turning up their noses in horror. Incomes in Toronto tend to be a lot higher than the national average too.
It would be nice to please everyone, but in the end, the NDP is first and foremost a party that defends the interest of working class people and if we have to choose between gearing our message towards winning the votes of working class people or winning back Margaret Atwood - I think the former has to take precedence.
Mon, 2008-10-20 08:20
#10
I think that there are a few things going on here.
One is that having the so-called green party at something 10% in Toronto reduces the available number of votes for all parties. The NDP vote may be stagnant - but so is the Liberal vote. In fact the Liberal vote took a pretty big hit in Trinity-Spadina and Danforth this time as well.
The one bright spot for the NDP in Toronto was York South-Weston where the vote went up a lot this time.
I think that more and more Toronto is seceding from the rest of Canada in terms of having its own unique voting pattern that is completely different from the rest of Ontario (let alone the rest of Canada).
For the NDP, I think that there are probably two factors that create challenges in Toronto:
1. You cannot underestimate the impact of having a shamelessly pro-Liberal partisan rag like the Toronto Star as the main daily paper - and when day after day after day, the main daily paper reads like it was written by Liberal Party spin-doctors - it has to have some impact.
2. This election more than ever, the NDP under Layton ran a very class-based economically populist campaign. I think that this was the right thing to do under the circumstances and it was instrumental in sweeping northern Ontario and cementing the NDP lock on Hamilton, Windsor etc... and gaining ground in poorer and more blue collar ridings across Canada. BUT, in Toronto you have a population of largely white collar wannabes who just don't relate to that kind of messaging as well. The NDP base in Toronto such that it exists includes a lot of "creative class" professionals and teachers and nurses etc... and a lot of glitterati who like the NDP to be some esoteric pseudo-Green Party. When Jack Layton talks about "the kitchen table, not the boardroom table" - it is a great success in St. John's, Thunder Bay, Hamilton, Thompson and Windsor - bit you can almost hear all the snooty Margaret Atwood types turning up their noses in horror. Incomes in Toronto tend to be a lot higher than the national average too.
It would be nice to please everyone, but in the end, the NDP is first and foremost a party that defends the interest of working class people and if we have to choose between gearing our message towards winning the votes of working class people or winning back Margaret Atwood - I think the former has to take precedence.
Mon, 2008-10-20 08:23
#11
writer
Condos.
Edited to add: "Margaret Atwood types" - yeah, because international best-selling authors are a dime a dozen here in Toronto. They are a powerful voting block, that is for sure.
To be more clear: there is one "Margaret Atwood type" in Toronto - or Canada, for that matter. She would be Margaret Atwood.
[ 20 October 2008: Message edited by: writer ]
Mon, 2008-10-20 08:23
#12
writer
Condos.
Edited to add: "Margaret Atwood types" - yeah, because international best-selling authors are a dime a dozen here in Toronto. They are a powerful voting block, that is for sure.
To be more clear: there is one "Margaret Atwood type" in Toronto - or Canada, for that matter. She would be Margaret Atwood.
[ 20 October 2008: Message edited by: writer ]
Mon, 2008-10-20 08:23
#13
writer
Condos.
Edited to add: "Margaret Atwood types" - yeah, because international best-selling authors are a dime a dozen here in Toronto. They are a powerful voting block, that is for sure.
To be more clear: there is one "Margaret Atwood type" in Toronto - or Canada, for that matter. She would be Margaret Atwood.
[ 20 October 2008: Message edited by: writer ]
Mon, 2008-10-20 08:38
#14
don't be too quick to stereotype people who live in condos either. There is a huge range and in my experience, more of than not the actual owners of the condos are absentee and you have people with very modest incomes renting studio-sized condos from the owners because its all they can afford.
Mon, 2008-10-20 08:38
#15
don't be too quick to stereotype people who live in condos either. There is a huge range and in my experience, more of than not the actual owners of the condos are absentee and you have people with very modest incomes renting studio-sized condos from the owners because its all they can afford.
Mon, 2008-10-20 08:38
#16
don't be too quick to stereotype people who live in condos either. There is a huge range and in my experience, more of than not the actual owners of the condos are absentee and you have people with very modest incomes renting studio-sized condos from the owners because its all they can afford.
Mon, 2008-10-20 08:56
#17
writer
What stereotypes? Stockholm, coming from you, I am getting a much-needed injection of humour for the day.
Mon, 2008-10-20 08:56
#18
writer
What stereotypes? Stockholm, coming from you, I am getting a much-needed injection of humour for the day.
Mon, 2008-10-20 08:56
#19
writer
What stereotypes? Stockholm, coming from you, I am getting a much-needed injection of humour for the day.
Mon, 2008-10-20 08:57
#20
While the NDP has never been much of a factor in my riding, their vote was significantly lower this time. The NDP candidate this time was not of the calibre of Paul Summerville, Norman Tobias or Julian Heller (who ran provincially). Carolyn Bennett is also very personally popular and one of the most progressive Liberals. After seeing Kent lose so badly in '06, it's pretty clear St. Paul's has emerged into a very Liberal riding.
[ 20 October 2008: Message edited by: St. Paul's Progressive ]
Mon, 2008-10-20 08:57
#21
While the NDP has never been much of a factor in my riding, their vote was significantly lower this time. The NDP candidate this time was not of the calibre of Paul Summerville, Norman Tobias or Julian Heller (who ran provincially). Carolyn Bennett is also very personally popular and one of the most progressive Liberals. After seeing Kent lose so badly in '06, it's pretty clear St. Paul's has emerged into a very Liberal riding.
[ 20 October 2008: Message edited by: St. Paul's Progressive ]
Mon, 2008-10-20 08:57
#22
While the NDP has never been much of a factor in my riding, their vote was significantly lower this time. The NDP candidate this time was not of the calibre of Paul Summerville, Norman Tobias or Julian Heller (who ran provincially). Carolyn Bennett is also very personally popular and one of the most progressive Liberals. After seeing Kent lose so badly in '06, it's pretty clear St. Paul's has emerged into a very Liberal riding.
[ 20 October 2008: Message edited by: St. Paul's Progressive ]
Mon, 2008-10-20 09:08
#23
quote:
What stereotypes? Stockholm, coming from you, I am getting a much-needed injection of humour for the day.
Maybe I should conduct an experiment and see if I can EVER post on any topic at all, anytime, between today and the day I die and NOT have it provoke an immediate derisive, snarky, sarcastic comment from you.
I can already picture it. i will post my recipe for Paella Valenciana - and then be accused of showing insensitivity to people who fought against Franco in the Spanish Civil War!
Mon, 2008-10-20 09:08
#24
quote:
What stereotypes? Stockholm, coming from you, I am getting a much-needed injection of humour for the day.
Maybe I should conduct an experiment and see if I can EVER post on any topic at all, anytime, between today and the day I die and NOT have it provoke an immediate derisive, snarky, sarcastic comment from you.
I can already picture it. i will post my recipe for Paella Valenciana - and then be accused of showing insensitivity to people who fought against Franco in the Spanish Civil War!
Mon, 2008-10-20 09:08
#25
quote:
What stereotypes? Stockholm, coming from you, I am getting a much-needed injection of humour for the day.
Maybe I should conduct an experiment and see if I can EVER post on any topic at all, anytime, between today and the day I die and NOT have it provoke an immediate derisive, snarky, sarcastic comment from you.
I can already picture it. i will post my recipe for Paella Valenciana - and then be accused of showing insensitivity to people who fought against Franco in the Spanish Civil War!
Mon, 2008-10-20 09:26
#26
writer
And I challenge you to show me where I made any kind of statement that can be described as a stereotype of the people living in condos.
As opposed to your stereotype about "Margaret Atwood types" immediately above.
Rich, rich, rich, coming from you.
Sorry that pointing out the obvious has hurt your feelings.
Mon, 2008-10-20 09:26
#27
writer
And I challenge you to show me where I made any kind of statement that can be described as a stereotype of the people living in condos.
As opposed to your stereotype about "Margaret Atwood types" immediately above.
Rich, rich, rich, coming from you.
Sorry that pointing out the obvious has hurt your feelings.
Mon, 2008-10-20 09:26
#28
writer
And I challenge you to show me where I made any kind of statement that can be described as a stereotype of the people living in condos.
As opposed to your stereotype about "Margaret Atwood types" immediately above.
Rich, rich, rich, coming from you.
Sorry that pointing out the obvious has hurt your feelings.
Mon, 2008-10-20 12:12
#29
York South is an old NDP stronghold and it's nice to see a revival of the party there. Scarborough Southwest, Etobicoke North and York West could also be areas worth targeting.
Speaking of the "Yorks", one surprising result in Toronto was York Centre. The NDP used to have some strength there (Howard Moscoe ran there provincially for instance in Wilson Heights in the 70s and Downsview was NDP for years). But Dryden only won by 2500 votes - narrowing out the Tory. It used to be one of the safest Liberal ridings in Canada. As a left-Lib, I would think he'd take some NDP votes that wanted to stop the Tories.
[ 20 October 2008: Message edited by: St. Paul's Progressive ]
[ 20 October 2008: Message edited by: St. Paul's Progressive ]
Mon, 2008-10-20 12:12
#30
York South is an old NDP stronghold and it's nice to see a revival of the party there. Scarborough Southwest, Etobicoke North and York West could also be areas worth targeting.
Speaking of the "Yorks", one surprising result in Toronto was York Centre. The NDP used to have some strength there (Howard Moscoe ran there provincially for instance in Wilson Heights in the 70s and Downsview was NDP for years). But Dryden only won by 2500 votes - narrowing out the Tory. It used to be one of the safest Liberal ridings in Canada. As a left-Lib, I would think he'd take some NDP votes that wanted to stop the Tories.
[ 20 October 2008: Message edited by: St. Paul's Progressive ]
[ 20 October 2008: Message edited by: St. Paul's Progressive ]
Mon, 2008-10-20 12:12
#31
York South is an old NDP stronghold and it's nice to see a revival of the party there. Scarborough Southwest, Etobicoke North and York West could also be areas worth targeting.
Speaking of the "Yorks", one surprising result in Toronto was York Centre. The NDP used to have some strength there (Howard Moscoe ran there provincially for instance in Wilson Heights in the 70s and Downsview was NDP for years). But Dryden only won by 2500 votes - narrowing out the Tory. It used to be one of the safest Liberal ridings in Canada. As a left-Lib, I would think he'd take some NDP votes that wanted to stop the Tories.
[ 20 October 2008: Message edited by: St. Paul's Progressive ]
[ 20 October 2008: Message edited by: St. Paul's Progressive ]
Mon, 2008-10-20 12:39
#32
Left Turn
I think the msm fearmongered a lot of people in Toronto into voting Liberal rather than NDP, by runninng stories about whether the Conservatives could pick up any ridings in Toronto. There were stories about how the Conservatives were competitive in Don Valley West, and were making a major push to win this riding. There was even one evening where polster Nick Nanos mused on CPAC that his polling numbers for the greater Toronto area might allow the Conservatives to pick up ridings like Etobicoke Lakeshore.
Mon, 2008-10-20 12:39
#33
Left Turn
I think the msm fearmongered a lot of people in Toronto into voting Liberal rather than NDP, by runninng stories about whether the Conservatives could pick up any ridings in Toronto. There were stories about how the Conservatives were competitive in Don Valley West, and were making a major push to win this riding. There was even one evening where polster Nick Nanos mused on CPAC that his polling numbers for the greater Toronto area might allow the Conservatives to pick up ridings like Etobicoke Lakeshore.
Mon, 2008-10-20 12:39
#34
Left Turn
I think the msm fearmongered a lot of people in Toronto into voting Liberal rather than NDP, by runninng stories about whether the Conservatives could pick up any ridings in Toronto. There were stories about how the Conservatives were competitive in Don Valley West, and were making a major push to win this riding. There was even one evening where polster Nick Nanos mused on CPAC that his polling numbers for the greater Toronto area might allow the Conservatives to pick up ridings like Etobicoke Lakeshore.
Mon, 2008-10-20 12:51
#35
The Tories came very close in Don Valley West.
Mon, 2008-10-20 12:51
#36
The Tories came very close in Don Valley West.
Mon, 2008-10-20 12:51
#37
The Tories came very close in Don Valley West.
Mon, 2008-10-20 14:44
#38
Toronto Star has an effect in Toronto and alot of southern and Central Ontario.
People read it and believe it.
Mon, 2008-10-20 14:44
#39
Toronto Star has an effect in Toronto and alot of southern and Central Ontario.
People read it and believe it.
Mon, 2008-10-20 14:44
#40
Toronto Star has an effect in Toronto and alot of southern and Central Ontario.
People read it and believe it.
Mon, 2008-10-20 15:43
#41
quote:
Originally posted by Stockholm:
the NDP is first and foremost a party that defends the interest of working class people and if we have to choose between gearing our message towards winning the votes of working class people or winning back Margaret Atwood - I think the former has to take precedence.
Agreed.
Mon, 2008-10-20 15:43
#42
quote:
Originally posted by Stockholm:
the NDP is first and foremost a party that defends the interest of working class people and if we have to choose between gearing our message towards winning the votes of working class people or winning back Margaret Atwood - I think the former has to take precedence.
Agreed.
Mon, 2008-10-20 15:43
#43
quote:
Originally posted by Stockholm:
the NDP is first and foremost a party that defends the interest of working class people and if we have to choose between gearing our message towards winning the votes of working class people or winning back Margaret Atwood - I think the former has to take precedence.
Agreed.
Mon, 2008-10-20 16:47
#44
Scott Piatkowski
quote:
Originally posted by St. Paul's Progressive:
[b]While the NDP has never been much of a factor in my riding, their vote was significantly lower this time. The NDP candidate this time was not of the calibre of Paul Summerville, Norman Tobias or Julian Heller (who ran provincially). Carolyn Bennett is also very personally popular and one of the most progressive Liberals. After seeing Kent lose so badly in '06, it's pretty clear St. Paul's has emerged into a very Liberal riding.[/b]
I would imagine that the Liberal campaign in St. Pauls also got a bit of a boost from the publicity surrounding the (quite reprehensible) targetted cutting of brake lines.
Mon, 2008-10-20 16:47
#45
Scott Piatkowski
quote:
Originally posted by St. Paul's Progressive:
[b]While the NDP has never been much of a factor in my riding, their vote was significantly lower this time. The NDP candidate this time was not of the calibre of Paul Summerville, Norman Tobias or Julian Heller (who ran provincially). Carolyn Bennett is also very personally popular and one of the most progressive Liberals. After seeing Kent lose so badly in '06, it's pretty clear St. Paul's has emerged into a very Liberal riding.[/b]
I would imagine that the Liberal campaign in St. Pauls also got a bit of a boost from the publicity surrounding the (quite reprehensible) targetted cutting of brake lines.
Mon, 2008-10-20 16:47
#46
Scott Piatkowski
quote:
Originally posted by St. Paul's Progressive:
[b]While the NDP has never been much of a factor in my riding, their vote was significantly lower this time. The NDP candidate this time was not of the calibre of Paul Summerville, Norman Tobias or Julian Heller (who ran provincially). Carolyn Bennett is also very personally popular and one of the most progressive Liberals. After seeing Kent lose so badly in '06, it's pretty clear St. Paul's has emerged into a very Liberal riding.[/b]
I would imagine that the Liberal campaign in St. Pauls also got a bit of a boost from the publicity surrounding the (quite reprehensible) targetted cutting of brake lines.
Mon, 2008-10-20 16:54
#47
Was it a false flag operation to swing the sympathy vote for an otherwise high calibre candidate?
[ 20 October 2008: Message edited by: Fidel ]
Mon, 2008-10-20 16:54
#48
Was it a false flag operation to swing the sympathy vote for an otherwise high calibre candidate?
[ 20 October 2008: Message edited by: Fidel ]
Mon, 2008-10-20 16:54
#49
Was it a false flag operation to swing the sympathy vote for an otherwise high calibre candidate?
[ 20 October 2008: Message edited by: Fidel ]
Mon, 2008-10-20 16:57
#50
I think the only possible impact of the brake line cutting might have been to shake a few liberals out of their complacency and go to the polls. I've lived in St. Pauls for 12 years and it's been a liberal bastion federally the whole time.
I didn't know I was supposed to burn my Margaret Atwood books. I'll get right on that.
Mon, 2008-10-20 16:57
#51
I think the only possible impact of the brake line cutting might have been to shake a few liberals out of their complacency and go to the polls. I've lived in St. Pauls for 12 years and it's been a liberal bastion federally the whole time.
I didn't know I was supposed to burn my Margaret Atwood books. I'll get right on that.