Judicial recounts

Wed, 2008-10-22 07:22

Politics101

Another recount has been ordered - this time in a Quebec riding won by the Bloc

THE CANADIAN PRESS

OTTAWA - The fourth recount following last week's federal election has been ordered in the Quebec riding of Brossard-La Prairie.

Marcel Lussier of the Bloc Quebecois was re-elected in the riding just south of Montreal by just 102 votes over Liberal candidate Alexandra Mendes. Elections Canada says the recount will be held Thursday in Longueuil, Que., by a judge of the Quebec Superior Court.

[ 22 October 2008: Message edited by: Politics101 ]

Wed, 2008-10-22 07:22

#103

Politics101

Another recount has been ordered - this time in a Quebec riding won by the Bloc

THE CANADIAN PRESS

OTTAWA - The fourth recount following last week's federal election has been ordered in the Quebec riding of Brossard-La Prairie.

Marcel Lussier of the Bloc Quebecois was re-elected in the riding just south of Montreal by just 102 votes over Liberal candidate Alexandra Mendes. Elections Canada says the recount will be held Thursday in Longueuil, Que., by a judge of the Quebec Superior Court.

[ 22 October 2008: Message edited by: Politics101 ]

Wed, 2008-10-22 07:22

#104

Politics101

Another recount has been ordered - this time in a Quebec riding won by the Bloc

THE CANADIAN PRESS

OTTAWA - The fourth recount following last week's federal election has been ordered in the Quebec riding of Brossard-La Prairie.

Marcel Lussier of the Bloc Quebecois was re-elected in the riding just south of Montreal by just 102 votes over Liberal candidate Alexandra Mendes. Elections Canada says the recount will be held Thursday in Longueuil, Que., by a judge of the Quebec Superior Court.

[ 22 October 2008: Message edited by: Politics101 ]

Wed, 2008-10-22 07:22

#105

Politics101

Another recount has been ordered - this time in a Quebec riding won by the Bloc

THE CANADIAN PRESS

OTTAWA - The fourth recount following last week's federal election has been ordered in the Quebec riding of Brossard-La Prairie.

Marcel Lussier of the Bloc Quebecois was re-elected in the riding just south of Montreal by just 102 votes over Liberal candidate Alexandra Mendes. Elections Canada says the recount will be held Thursday in Longueuil, Que., by a judge of the Quebec Superior Court.

[ 22 October 2008: Message edited by: Politics101 ]

Wed, 2008-10-22 07:54

#106

Krago

In the 2003 Quebec provincial election, the riding of Champlain ended in a tie. A re-vote was held a few weeks later which the PQ candidate won.

Wed, 2008-10-22 07:54

#107

Krago

In the 2003 Quebec provincial election, the riding of Champlain ended in a tie. A re-vote was held a few weeks later which the PQ candidate won.

Wed, 2008-10-22 07:54

#108

Krago

In the 2003 Quebec provincial election, the riding of Champlain ended in a tie. A re-vote was held a few weeks later which the PQ candidate won.

Wed, 2008-10-22 07:54

#109

Krago

In the 2003 Quebec provincial election, the riding of Champlain ended in a tie. A re-vote was held a few weeks later which the PQ candidate won.

Wed, 2008-10-22 08:08

#110

Stockholm

I've never quite understood why DOCTOR PROFESSOR Keith Martin switched from the CPC to the Liberals when he did.

The DOCTOR PROFESSOR was by all accounts an enthusiastic Reform Party MP during the reign of arch-social conservatives Preston Manning and Stockwell Day - and during that period he was a reliable vote against any and all legislation to expand gay rights etc... and he was the leading proponent of scrapping the Canada Health Act and privatizing as much of the health care system as possible. He even ran for the leadership of the Canadian Alliance on a platform of privatizing health care.

THEN, when the Canadian Alliance merged with the Tories and ditched a lot of its socially conservative baggage and morphed into being more of a classic small "c" conservative party - all of a sudden the good DOCTOR PROFESSOR decided that the CPC was too rightwing for him.

I have never understood why he was so perfectly comfortable in the Reform Party/Canadian Alliance of Manning and Day - but once that party merged with the PCs and moved a bit to the centre right from the far right - he suddenly decided it was time to join the Liberals?

Wed, 2008-10-22 08:08

#111

Stockholm

I've never quite understood why DOCTOR PROFESSOR Keith Martin switched from the CPC to the Liberals when he did.

The DOCTOR PROFESSOR was by all accounts an enthusiastic Reform Party MP during the reign of arch-social conservatives Preston Manning and Stockwell Day - and during that period he was a reliable vote against any and all legislation to expand gay rights etc... and he was the leading proponent of scrapping the Canada Health Act and privatizing as much of the health care system as possible. He even ran for the leadership of the Canadian Alliance on a platform of privatizing health care.

THEN, when the Canadian Alliance merged with the Tories and ditched a lot of its socially conservative baggage and morphed into being more of a classic small "c" conservative party - all of a sudden the good DOCTOR PROFESSOR decided that the CPC was too rightwing for him.

I have never understood why he was so perfectly comfortable in the Reform Party/Canadian Alliance of Manning and Day - but once that party merged with the PCs and moved a bit to the centre right from the far right - he suddenly decided it was time to join the Liberals?

Wed, 2008-10-22 08:08

#112

Stockholm

I've never quite understood why DOCTOR PROFESSOR Keith Martin switched from the CPC to the Liberals when he did.

The DOCTOR PROFESSOR was by all accounts an enthusiastic Reform Party MP during the reign of arch-social conservatives Preston Manning and Stockwell Day - and during that period he was a reliable vote against any and all legislation to expand gay rights etc... and he was the leading proponent of scrapping the Canada Health Act and privatizing as much of the health care system as possible. He even ran for the leadership of the Canadian Alliance on a platform of privatizing health care.

THEN, when the Canadian Alliance merged with the Tories and ditched a lot of its socially conservative baggage and morphed into being more of a classic small "c" conservative party - all of a sudden the good DOCTOR PROFESSOR decided that the CPC was too rightwing for him.

I have never understood why he was so perfectly comfortable in the Reform Party/Canadian Alliance of Manning and Day - but once that party merged with the PCs and moved a bit to the centre right from the far right - he suddenly decided it was time to join the Liberals?

Wed, 2008-10-22 08:08

#113

Stockholm

I've never quite understood why DOCTOR PROFESSOR Keith Martin switched from the CPC to the Liberals when he did.

The DOCTOR PROFESSOR was by all accounts an enthusiastic Reform Party MP during the reign of arch-social conservatives Preston Manning and Stockwell Day - and during that period he was a reliable vote against any and all legislation to expand gay rights etc... and he was the leading proponent of scrapping the Canada Health Act and privatizing as much of the health care system as possible. He even ran for the leadership of the Canadian Alliance on a platform of privatizing health care.

THEN, when the Canadian Alliance merged with the Tories and ditched a lot of its socially conservative baggage and morphed into being more of a classic small "c" conservative party - all of a sudden the good DOCTOR PROFESSOR decided that the CPC was too rightwing for him.

I have never understood why he was so perfectly comfortable in the Reform Party/Canadian Alliance of Manning and Day - but once that party merged with the PCs and moved a bit to the centre right from the far right - he suddenly decided it was time to join the Liberals?

Wed, 2008-10-22 23:46

#114

Malcolm

quote:

Originally posted by M. Spector:
[b]Why is that, exactly?[/b]

I suspect there are a number of reasons.

1. Historically in Canada, Conservative governments have been more vocally supportive of the military and its members, and have usually invested in the capacity of the services - ie, initiating capital upgrades. The Liberals, however, have tended to do more by way of pay and benefits for CF members.

2. The military is, by nature, a culture which values deference to authority - which historically has been a significant aspect of conservative ideology.

There`re doubtless many more reasons, but I suspect those two covewr most of it.

That said, I certainly wouldn`t say the CF and CF family vote is monolithic by any means. I am aware of one command team in recent years evenly split among the three parties in terms of political preference.

Wed, 2008-10-22 23:46

#115

Malcolm

quote:

Originally posted by M. Spector:
[b]Why is that, exactly?[/b]

I suspect there are a number of reasons.

1. Historically in Canada, Conservative governments have been more vocally supportive of the military and its members, and have usually invested in the capacity of the services - ie, initiating capital upgrades. The Liberals, however, have tended to do more by way of pay and benefits for CF members.

2. The military is, by nature, a culture which values deference to authority - which historically has been a significant aspect of conservative ideology.

There`re doubtless many more reasons, but I suspect those two covewr most of it.

That said, I certainly wouldn`t say the CF and CF family vote is monolithic by any means. I am aware of one command team in recent years evenly split among the three parties in terms of political preference.

Wed, 2008-10-22 23:46

#116

Malcolm

quote:

Originally posted by M. Spector:
[b]Why is that, exactly?[/b]

I suspect there are a number of reasons.

1. Historically in Canada, Conservative governments have been more vocally supportive of the military and its members, and have usually invested in the capacity of the services - ie, initiating capital upgrades. The Liberals, however, have tended to do more by way of pay and benefits for CF members.

2. The military is, by nature, a culture which values deference to authority - which historically has been a significant aspect of conservative ideology.

There`re doubtless many more reasons, but I suspect those two covewr most of it.

That said, I certainly wouldn`t say the CF and CF family vote is monolithic by any means. I am aware of one command team in recent years evenly split among the three parties in terms of political preference.

Wed, 2008-10-22 23:46

#117

Malcolm

quote:

Originally posted by M. Spector:
[b]Why is that, exactly?[/b]

I suspect there are a number of reasons.

1. Historically in Canada, Conservative governments have been more vocally supportive of the military and its members, and have usually invested in the capacity of the services - ie, initiating capital upgrades. The Liberals, however, have tended to do more by way of pay and benefits for CF members.

2. The military is, by nature, a culture which values deference to authority - which historically has been a significant aspect of conservative ideology.

There`re doubtless many more reasons, but I suspect those two covewr most of it.

That said, I certainly wouldn`t say the CF and CF family vote is monolithic by any means. I am aware of one command team in recent years evenly split among the three parties in terms of political preference.

Thu, 2008-10-23 12:54

#118

robbie_dee

[url=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081023.welxnrecount... and Mail: Recount Confirms Gail Shea the Winner in Egmont[/url]

The margin was sliced from 62 votes to a mere 55.

Note also - Elections Canada also now has a fifth recount listed on their website for Andrew Kania in Brampton West.

[ 23 October 2008: Message edited by: robbie_dee ]

Thu, 2008-10-23 13:36

#119

Centrist

There's also been a court-ordered recount today in Esquimalt-Juan De Fuca (Lib Keith Martin's riding).

[url=http://www.cfax1070.com/newsstory.php?newsId=6772]http://www.cfax1070.co...

Fri, 2008-10-24 12:23

#120

JeffWells

The Dosanjh recount is underway:

quote:

The recount began behind closed doors at 9 a.m. Friday morning. Elections officials say it is impossible to tell when it will wrap up.

[url=http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20081024/BC_van_south_r... Dosanjh could be unseated in B.C. recount[/url]

Yeah, I could live with that.

Fri, 2008-10-24 12:44

#121

kropotkin1951

One time and for one time only I will be cheering for the Conservatives to win a seat. Dosanjh is a nasty asshole who doesn't deserve to sit as an MP. He spent the last two weeks of the campaign vilifying me as an NDP activist because in his little elitist brain he thinks he has some sort of claim to my vote. One right wing crime fighter or another if it doesn't give Harpo a majority is no difference to me.

Fri, 2008-10-24 12:45

#122

madmax

Why is that?

I don't know the other candidate. What if the other candidate is worse? It is possible.

Fri, 2008-10-24 13:07

#123

Stockholm

In the overall scheme of things - its a good thing to kill of the Liberal Party in BC. I only wish that Doctor Professor Keith "I support two-tiered health care" Martin could bite the dust as well.

Fri, 2008-10-24 13:15

#124

kropotkin1951

quote:

Originally posted by madmax:
[b]Why is that?
I don't know the other candidate. What if the other candidate is worse? It is possible.[/b]

Because Dosanjh has insulted everything I believe in while trying to tell me to vote for his party. If you listened to his speech on election night it sounded like Pariseau except the NDP were "progressive" ingrates who interfered with the natural ruling parties right to rule.

One more right wing conservative or one more hypocritical liberal. One is a ideologue and the other is a two faced liar so I normally wouldn't care but after the attacks on the NDP 's progressive sitting MP's that he engaged in then I say a pox on him and his party.

Besides if he loses he can always run for the Liberals in the upcoming provincial election.

Fri, 2008-10-24 13:38

#125

TCD

If Dosanjh loses there's positives and negatives.

Negatives:
- The Tories are one seat closer to a majority.
- There's one less Opposition MP to stand up to Harper and oppose the government on important issues like extending the war in Afghanistan, massive corporate tax cuts, giveaways to banks.... oh wait. Never mind.

Positives:
- It's always nice to see an opportunist fail purely because of his opportunism.
- I have a vindictive streak and I will enjoy seeing him fail. Again. I enjoyed watching him fail as a sell-out NDP Premier but I think I'll enjoy watching him fail as a sell-out Liberal even more.
- It will help silence his inane argument that people should "strategically" support the Liberals in BC to stop the Tories - despite the fact that they have less support than the NDP, fewer seats than the NDP, and poll behind the Greens.

[ 24 October 2008: Message edited by: TCD ]

Fri, 2008-10-24 15:09

#126

Treetop

[url=http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2008/10/24/brossard-recount.html... win seat from Bloc in Montreal riding recount. [/url]

"The Bloc Quйbйcois has lost a seat in suburban Montreal after a recount of federal election results from last week.

Liberal candidate Alexandra Mendes has unseated Bloc Quйbйcois incumbent Marcel Lussier in the riding of Brossard- La Prairie, according to a recount conducted by a Quebec Superior Court judge"

Fri, 2008-10-24 15:52

#127

TCD

Alice Klein's head is exploding as she tries to figure out whether this is a good or bad development.

HINT: [url=http://reactionismwatch.wordpress.com/2008/10/14/brossard-la-prairie-man... victorious Liberal thinks we should stay in Agfhanistan until 2011. Fuelling all those tanks is bad for the environment.[/url]

[ 24 October 2008: Message edited by: TCD ]

Sun, 2021-11-21 18:39

#128

jfb

.

Fri, 2008-10-24 17:09

#129

Centrist

Meh, Dosanjh has won going from 33 votes to 22 in the recount.

[url=http://canadianpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5is8Wr3gJz3VDzanIFiUJYq6ElI...

[ 24 October 2008: Message edited by: Centrist ]

Fri, 2008-10-24 17:58

#130

TCD

Recount the recount.

Two more and he'll lose.

Fri, 2008-10-24 18:10

#131

TCD

Interesting... the judge who did the recount is the same judge who signed the warrant that allowed police to raid [url=http://origin.www.cbc.ca/canada/story/1999/08/20/bc_clark990820.html]Glen Clark[/url]'s house. Which made him a pretty important figure for [url=http://origin.www.cbc.ca/news/story/1999/08/20/bc_clarkeve990820.html]Do... who ultimately revealed the details to the media[/url] and ultimately launched Uj into his career in the Premier's office.

Mon, 2008-10-27 17:25

#132

Centrist

It looks like Dosanjh's win on recount is going to be appealed.

quote:

A Vancouver Conservative candidate who lost a federal election recount last week is appealing the result in court.
The Elections Act gives the judge supervising the recount the option of counting all the valid votes, plus spoiled and rejected ballots, [b]or[/b] only those from a sampling of ballot boxes.
In the Vancouver South recount B.C. Supreme Court Associate Chief Justice Patrick Dohm opted to recount votes from [b]28[/b] out of [b]184[/b] ballot boxes.
The recount in Vancouver South found four vote changes in 22 of the 28 boxes that were opened, raising the possibility of 30 or more vote changes in the unopened boxes, Leitch says.
He conceded getting Dohm to change his mind was a long shot.

I always assumed, in the sense of fairness, that a recount would include all ballot boxes considering the closeness of the result (a 33 vote spread).

In this case, only 28/184 (15%) of the ballot boxes were opened and counted, which saw a 11 vote reduction from 33 votes to 22.

[url=http://www.news1130.com/news/national/article.jsp?content=n1027127A]http...

Sun, 2021-11-21 18:39

#133

jfb

.

Mon, 2008-10-27 22:05

#134

bekayne

Keith Martin wins his recount:
[url=http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/story.html?id=5f3488f5-...

Mon, 2008-10-27 23:02

#135

jas

Not sure what the evidence is to prove that Dosanjh, as Attorney General - an office that is supposed to have some independence from government - ordered an investigation of Clark in order to get into the leader's chair. I don't think Dosanjh even wanted the job. If someone can prove otherwise, please outline the facts.

Until then, I hope he wins the recount and I hope he keeps winning his seat just to spite you. Until the NDP can put up a plausible candidate in Vancouver South, I guess NDPers will continue to root from their armchairs for the Conservative candidate. What "progressive" politics. [img]rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]

ETA: got my A-Gs mixed up.

[ 27 October 2008: Message edited by: jas ]

Tue, 2008-10-28 06:02

#136

Stockholm

What a shame that the excreable DOCTOR PROFESSOR Keith Martin won. I'll never understand why that creep has any personal appeal at all. He is a champion of scrapping the health system and has the most grating, unctuous voice of anyone in federal politics. The Liberals would really better off not having such an embarrassing person in their caucus.

What can you say about someone who was an enthusiastic supporter of Preston Manning and Stockwell Day and then only became a Liberal AFTER the Reform Party merged with the PCs and became less rightwing than it was before.

Tue, 2008-10-28 11:01

#137

V. Jara

quote:

Originally posted by Stockholm:
[b]I've never quite understood why DOCTOR PROFESSOR Keith Martin switched from the CPC to the Liberals when he did.
The DOCTOR PROFESSOR was by all accounts an enthusiastic Reform Party MP during the reign of arch-social conservatives Preston Manning and Stockwell Day - and during that period he was a reliable vote against any and all legislation to expand gay rights etc... and he was the leading proponent of scrapping the Canada Health Act and privatizing as much of the health care system as possible. He even ran for the leadership of the Canadian Alliance on a platform of privatizing health care.
THEN, when the Canadian Alliance merged with the Tories and ditched a lot of its socially conservative baggage and morphed into being more of a classic small "c" conservative party - all of a sudden the good DOCTOR PROFESSOR decided that the CPC was too rightwing for him.
I have never understood why he was so perfectly comfortable in the Reform Party/Canadian Alliance of Manning and Day - but once that party merged with the PCs and moved a bit to the centre right from the far right - he suddenly decided it was time to join the Liberals?[/b]

He said he would have PM Paul Martin's ear on private medicare. He said the PM was very open to his ideas about "saving" the system (through privatization). In the end, PM Martin made him Parliamentary Secretary to someone and he never reached cabinet before the next election was called.

As for Horgan and Burgis switching. I highly doubt it. Horgan knows the provincially seat is a much safer bet, and he didn't win that one by a large margin in 2005. He would be the best candidate the NDP currently has for the job. If Horgan were to run for Martin's seat, it'd be another grudge match, highly dependent on the strength of the Conservatives.

Tue, 2008-10-28 11:23

#138

1948

quote:

Originally posted by jas:
[b]Not sure what the evidence is to prove that Dosanjh, as Attorney General - an office that is supposed to have some independence from government - ordered an investigation of Clark in order to get into the leader's chair. I don't think Dosanjh even wanted the job. If someone can prove otherwise, please outline the facts.[/b]

Without buying into the overall theory the evidence that Ujj wanted the Premier's job is the fact that he [b]ran[/b] for the job at some considerable time and expense. He didn't become leader by accident.

And while there's little evidence that Ujjal "ordered" the investigation he certainly served himself well by publicly announcing that his predecessor was under investigation.

When Judy Wasylycia-Leis did the same thing to Ralph Goodale, Ujjal
[url=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080331.wrcmp_income... idignities.[/url]

Tue, 2008-10-28 12:07

#139

jas

I'm sorry, but if anything stinks about the whole Clark abdication, it's Clark being hired shortly after by Jimmy Pattison, of all people, arch-nemesis of anything socially deomocratic, and longtime corporate contributor to the former Socreds. And people think [i]Dosanjh[/i] was involved in some kind of conspiracy?

Tue, 2008-10-28 13:18

#140

Krago

Thank God Maclean's is on the story!

[url=http://blog.macleans.ca/2008/10/27/vancouver-south-recount-dont-shoot-th... South Recount: Don't shoot the electoral messenger y'all[/url]

[url=http://blog.macleans.ca/2008/10/28/vancouver-south-recount-okay-i-give-u... South Recount: Okay I give up. What the heck is going on out there?[/url]

[url=http://blog.macleans.ca/2008/10/28/vancouver-south-recount-the-latest-in... South Recount: The latest intrigue plus memories of ballot battles past[/url]

Tue, 2008-10-28 14:07

#141

kropotkin1951

quote:

Originally posted by jas:
[b]I'm sorry, but if anything stinks about the whole Clark abdication, it's Clark being hired shortly after by Jimmy Pattison, of all people, arch-nemesis of anything socially deomocratic, and longtime corporate contributor to the former Socreds. And people think [i]Dosanjh[/i] was involved in some kind of conspiracy?[/b]

Glen after being Premier should have gone on to be a bus driver or something. What kind of working class kid would take a job as an executive? He didn't deserve to get a good high paying job for fuck sakes he was only an NDP Premier. Obviously no skills or anything to bring to a boardroom table.

Now if he was not an NDP Premier he would likely have instead got the Mulroney style treatment. Those kinds of politicians get appointed to numerous Boards of Directors and get handsome payments from many corporations for attending a few meetings a year. But no he was NDP so he actually was only able to secure a job were they expected him to work for a living not reward him for his work in government on behalf of Howe Street.

Conspiracy theories like yours Jas are a disgusting display of smear your opponents.

Tue, 2008-10-28 18:24

#142

jas

I'm pretty sure you would know who Jim Pattison is. Anyone who does can immediately recognize the contradiction of an a well-known local arch-conservative hiring a former NDP party leader after he resigns. How do you explain this?

I'm not the one with the conspiracy theories. According to some intimations made in the anti-Ujjal threads, Dosanjh was paid off by the federal Liberals to deliberately run a bad provincial campaign and sink the BC NDP into a deep political abyss (not sure why the federal Liberals would need the BC NDP sunk, but the conspiracy theorists obviously have their own ideas) and was rewarded with a federal cabinet post.

Tue, 2008-10-28 19:43

#143

jas

FTR, I liked Glen Clark and notwithstanding some errors of his, I felt he was the victim of a relentless attack campaign. I guess my point here more is that the attacks on and inferences about Dosanjh seem to be based mainly on the fact that he was invited to join the federal Liberals and he took the invitation. The fact that he ran a pitiful provincial campaign seems to link him in some people's minds to some sinister plot. Whereas Glen hopping over to Jimmy Pattison's camp* after sinking the provincial NDP draws no ire from anyone? Nor any question? No, the failures of the NDP are "Ujjal's fault". Double standard.

*(and I couldn't help but think at the time what a powerful PR message Pattison sent out with that move, eg; "The socialists are vanquished. I OWN their leader.")

Tue, 2008-10-28 23:13

#144

Malcolm

quote:

Originally posted by jas:
[b]I'm pretty sure you would know who Jim Pattison is. Anyone who does can immediately recognize the contradiction of an a well-known local arch-conservative hiring a former NDP party leader after he resigns. How do you explain this?
[/b]

I don't know many business leaders with a strict ideological litmus test when they hire.

Let me amend that. I don't know many SUCCESSFUL business leaders with a strict ideological litmus test when they hire.

Glen Clark hadd sufficient talent to get elected to the provincial legislature, to get appointed to Cabinet, to become premier and to win an election which seemed unwinnable.

What Jimmy Pattison saw (that bright Luseland boy who grew up in socialist Saskatchewan), was a talented guy who needed a job and would bring several useful skills, connections, experiences and insights.

What a load of puritanical shite you spout. You seem to think that having been an NDP politician means that he has no right to earn an effing living.

Tue, 2008-10-28 23:41

#145

Pogo

The problem with Dosanjh is that he didn't try. When he became premier he ignored the upcoming election and instead organized a tour of India. During the election he avoided defending the government. He was so poor a campaigner that it looked like he gave up.

Glen Clark didn't give up.

Wed, 2008-10-29 08:08

#146

jas

quote:

Originally posted by Malcolm:
[b]
What a load of puritanical shite you spout. You seem to think that having been an NDP politician means that he has no right to earn an effing living.[/b]

Right. Glen, as talented as you proclaim him, couldn't find an effin' livin' anywhere else...? He didn't really look too long or hard, did he? Anyone who can't see the contradiction of an avowed social democrat joining the ranks of Jimmy Pattison (almost immediately after, I would add) doesn't have the right to judge other politicians for their career decisions. OK? Or to spout off ad nauseum on these boards about how the NDP is the only party in Canada with "principles".

But yeah, I'm the puritanical one here. [img]rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]

Wed, 2008-10-29 08:54

#147

johnpauljones

quote:

Originally posted by Malcolm:
[b]What a load of puritanical shite you spout. You seem to think that having been an NDP politician means that he has no right to earn an effing living.[/b]

Well I for one would be very happy if Uj and Bob Rae stayed poor and unemployed!!!! [img]mad.gif" border="0[/img]

Wed, 2008-10-29 10:12

#148

kropotkin1951

quote:

Originally posted by jas:
[b]
Right. Glen, as talented as you proclaim him, couldn't find an effin' livin' anywhere else...? He didn't really look too long or hard, did he? Anyone who can't see the contradiction of an avowed social democrat joining the ranks of Jimmy Pattison (almost immediately after, I would add) doesn't have the right to judge other politicians for their career decisions. OK? Or to spout off ad nauseum on these boards about how the NDP is the only party in Canada with "principles".
But yeah, I'm the puritanical one here. [img]rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] [/b]

No you miss the difference between a persons private live and their public life. Glen resigned from politics and has not engaged in politics since. The moment he left politics his personal financial decisions such as taking an executive job working for Jimmy Boy is none o my business nor yours. When The Liberal hack leaves politics I will not care either but he didn't leave politics. Since he is a politician his decisions are properly the subject of public discourse because he keeps asking people to vote according to his political preference.

The moment Glen stopped being involved in the political process was the moment he gets his privacy rights back as just another citizen. When the Vancouver South asshole resigns from politics I will stop opposing him and asking for his defeat.

Wed, 2008-10-29 10:27

#149

Unionist

quote:

Originally posted by Malcolm:
[b]Glen Clark hadd sufficient talent to get elected to the provincial legislature, to get appointed to Cabinet, to become premier and to win an election which seemed unwinnable. ... You seem to think that having been an NDP politician means that he has no right to earn an effing living.[/b]

I agree. I too appreciated Glen Clark from afar and was revolted by the character assassination to which he was subjected. Sitting in judgment of politician's private lives, especially after they leave politics (or before they enter) is a messy business. It's invariably selective and subjective, and ultimately no one is immune. Judge them by the principles they uphold and their effectiveness.

Wed, 2008-10-29 10:59

#150

jas

Well, it's good to know that you only have to keep your principles when you're in public office. You might want to let a few of the more vocal NDP hardliners here know that.

So Glen is immune to criticism because he no longer is involved in politics and apparently doesn't even help out with NDP campaigns anymore, since taking the job with longtime Socred supporter Jim Pattison. Okey dokey.

quote:

Judge them by the principles they uphold...

Will do. I guess I'll just have to [i]psychically intuit[/i] that Glen is still a social democrat, keeping his socialistic principles quietly intact while working for Jimmy. And I will do my best to vilify Dosanjh, who has the [i]gall[/i] to remain in public life, and to actually try and win elections and make a difference in government. What nerve.

Wed, 2008-10-29 11:17

#151

Unionist

quote:

Originally posted by jas:
[b]Well, it's good to know that you only have to keep your principles when you're in public office. You might want to let a few of the more vocal NDP hardliners here know that. [/b]

Look, I'm not advocating a dogmatic approach here. If ex-NDP politicians (or ex-anyone for that matter) leave office and then pursue shady [i]political[/i] activities not consonant with the professed principles of their parties, then I think they are more than fair game for criticism.

Two examples that spring to mind are Ed Broadbent's appointment by Brian Mulroney to head a dubious "human rights" organization created just for him, followed by Audrey McLaughlin heading off to Iraq in the wake of its "liberation" to spread "democracy" under the aegis of the "National Endowment for Democracy" - linked at the hip with you-know-who:

quote:

The NED was created in 1982 by a handful of powerful people, including former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger. ... This period saw over two dozen separate U.S. military- and CIA-led interventions throughout Latin America. “Where the Cold War-era CIA once crushed genuinely democratic movements, the NED attempts to coopt them,” write James Ciment and Immanual Ness in CovertAction Quarterly. ...
Beginning in the late 1980’s, the Canadian government created several arms-length agencies dedicated to “democracy promotion.” Thomas Axworthy and Les Campbell, who have recently proposed and conceptualized a “blueprint” for an NED-like structure under the banner of the “Democracy Canada Institute,” point out that policy makers were initially seeking to create an organization similar to the National Endowment for Democracy. Things did not proceed quite as planned, and Parliament instead created the International Centre for Human Rights and Democratic Development (ICHRDD, later renamed Rights & Democracy). Ed Broadbent was named R&D’s first president, following his retirement as leader of the NDP. It is no secret, however, that R&D maintains a close affiliation with the NED, sharing a database on the NED’s website along with funding, and partnering with some of the same organizations as NED. On its website, the NED describes R&D as a “counterpart institution” and reveals that, “During the planning phase for the new Centre, members of a Parliamentary task force consulted with the leadership of NED.”
Campbell’s and Axworthy’s contributions demonstrate the non-partisan nature of overt operations in Canada. Campbell was once chief of staff for former NDP leader Audrey McLaughlin, and later joined one of the NED’s core institutes, the National Democratic Institute for International Affairs (NDI), where he is regional director for Middle East operations. He has recruited so many Canadians to work there that nearly a quarter of NDI’s staff are Canadian. Axworthy, meanwhile, is a former Liberal insider (and brother of former Liberal foreign-affairs minister Lloyd Axworthy) and a one-time secretary to Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau.

[url=http://canadiandimension.com/articles/2006/10/28/709/]Canadian Dimension[/url]

Then this gem:

quote:

Audrey McLaughlin, a former federal NDP leader, says she does not share the Canadian left's overwhelming opposition to the forced removal of Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein.
She acknowledged that, were she still living in Canada, she would have opposed the war...
While critical of certain aspects of the U.S.-led war, Ms. McLaughlin said her experience working for a U.S. organization in Baghdad has affected her views.

[url=http://www.dashhouse.com/darryl/2003/08/leftists_wrong.htm]Source.[/url]

These are people who should be called to account, IMO.

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