A guard dog.
Why Compulsory Voting is Wrong
Wed, 2008-11-05 19:01
#52
Cueball
Wed, 2008-11-05 19:01
#53
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
[b]A guard dog.[/b]
police
Wed, 2008-11-05 19:04
#54
Cueball
Oh you mean like muscle for the borgiose. Rich social democrats do the poor "favours", and the poor in turn reward them with political power, thourgh a forced vote and then they are so grateful they act as muscle for your regieme.
Nice scam.
[ 05 November 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]
Wed, 2008-11-05 19:10
#55
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
[b]Oh you mean like muscle for the borgiose. Rich social democrats do the poor "favours", and the poor in turn reward them with political power, thourgh a forced vote and then they are so grateful they act as muscle for your regieme.Nice scam.
[ 05 November 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ][/b]
To monitor if votes are bought, one needs to bring a cam in and out the polling booth.
Wed, 2008-11-05 19:12
#56
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
[b]Fuck you.[/b]
Do you eat with that mouth?
quote:
[b] So yeah, I pay him more than what the NDP thinks is a good minimum wage when I can.[/b]
You were one of those who [b][i]abstained[/i][/b] from voting in the last election just after our 22 percent tin pot in Toronto raised his phony majority government's pay by 25%. So what are you talking about?
quote:
[b]Speaking of which, aside from "Liberal/Dippers, same old slippers", do you have a couch he could stay on because I am full up? PM me you address and I will send him right over.[ 05 November 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ][/b]
I thought you were paying him a living wage? Let me guess, you gave him a lick and a promise for $10.25/hr de-indexed for inflation three years from now? You cheap basted
[ 05 November 2008: Message edited by: Fidel ]
Wed, 2008-11-05 19:12
#57
Cueball
Forced voting AND cameras in the polling station. Its getting really good now.
Wed, 2008-11-05 19:14
#58
Cueball
quote:
Originally posted by Fidel:
[b]I thought you were paying him a living wage? Let me guess, you gave him a lick and a promise for $10.25/hr de-indexed for inflation three years from now? You cheap basted
[ 05 November 2008: Message edited by: Fidel ][/b]
You started in with the insults Fidel. Actually this guy gets $12 under the table. What does that work out to over $15? The $10 the "liberals/dippers, same old slippers" are offering, is what... 2/3rds of what I am paying out?
Why should I vote for a $10 minimum wage when I pay more? What good does that do me or anyone I know?
[ 05 November 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]
Wed, 2008-11-05 19:17
#59
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
[b]Forced voting AND cameras in the polling station. Its getting really good now.[/b]
Filming yourself in the booth and when you insert your ballot should be illegal too. Secrecy and statehood are forever linked.
Wed, 2008-11-05 19:19
#60
Cueball
You and J. G. Ballard should have drinks sometime.
Wed, 2008-11-05 19:20
#61
Twelve bucks an hour? So now you admit the Liberals lick and a promise for $10.25/hr several years from now is entirely inadequate. I'll bet you're really glad now that the Liberals slithered into Queen's Perk and not the NDP. Do you see now what abstaining from votes does for ya? [img]tongue.gif" border="0[/img]
Wed, 2008-11-05 19:20
#62
I'd gladly pay 12 bucks for someone to close this thread.
Wed, 2008-11-05 19:20
#63
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
[b]You and J. G. Ballard should have drinks sometime.[/b]
Not before a vote.
Wed, 2008-11-05 19:21
#64
Cueball
quote:
Originally posted by Fidel:
[b]Twelve bucks an hour? So now you admit the Liberals lick and a promise for $10.25/hr several years from now is entirely inadequate. I'll bet you're really glad now that the Liberals slithered into Queen's Perk and not the NDP. Do you see now what abstaining from votes does for ya? [img]tongue.gif" border="0[/img] [/b]
I know that you talk, I pay. I pay more because I know that $10 you were talking about was a joke. $12 after taxes. Not your measely $10 before taxes. Why should I vote for that shit?
It would be immoral for me to support a measure, which simply doesn't measure up and then pretend I am doing somebody somewhere some good.
[ 05 November 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]
Wed, 2008-11-05 19:24
#65
Cueball
quote:
Originally posted by Slumberjack:
[b]I'd gladly pay 12 bucks for someone to close this thread.[/b]
Send it to me and I will stop posting for whole hour, how is that?
Wed, 2008-11-05 19:27
#66
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
[b]
Send it to me and I will stop posting for whole hour, how is that?[/b]
Not exactly the same as closing it. How bout six bucks for now, and I'll save the rest for the next hour?
Wed, 2008-11-05 19:28
#67
Cueball
Well I can't really help with the closing it thing, but I could say some more things that might cause it to happen. But that would defeat the purpose of what you want, no?
[ 05 November 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]
Wed, 2008-11-05 19:29
#68
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
[b]Send it to me and I will stop posting for whole hour, how is that?[/b]
I will always have more to say about voting.
Wed, 2008-11-05 19:30
#69
Cueball
Yeah, like everyone should do it. Friggin moralists.
Wed, 2008-11-05 19:30
#70
Can we get back on topic, please? What do [i]you[/i] think Jesus would wear to work, Cueball?
Wed, 2008-11-05 19:31
#71
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
[b]I know that you talk, I pay. I pay more because I know that $10 you were talking about was a joke. $12 after taxes. Not your measely $10 before taxes. Why should I vote for that shit?[/b]
Well now NDP'ers everywhere are holding non-voting high rollers like you accountable for every adult worker in Ontario should earn at least the NDP's proposed $10 bucks an hour promised immediately as of last year. And it looks like you'll need to hire a few more guys to enforce even that minimum, so you'd better get busy. Time's a waistin'
Wed, 2008-11-05 19:31
#72
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
[b]Well I can't really help with the closing it thing, but I could say some more things that might cause it to happen. But that would defeat the purpose of what you want, no?
[ 05 November 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ][/b]
[img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img] If you think it might help, what the heck.
Wed, 2008-11-05 19:35
#73
Cueball
quote:
Originally posted by Fidel:
[b]Well now NDP'ers everywhere are holding non-voting high rollers like you accountable for every adult worker in Ontario should earn at least the NDP's proposed $10 bucks an hour promised immediately as of last year. And it looks like you'll need to hire a few more guys to enforce even that minimum, so you'd better get busy. Time's a waistin'[/b]
Far from it. I was paying $10, [i]after taxes[/i] an hour to start 5 years ago. Skilled labour get more. You guys are a joke, from where I am standing.
[ 05 November 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]
Wed, 2008-11-05 19:37
#74
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
[b]Yeah, like everyone should do it. Friggin moralists.[/b]
In politics you have only two choices: violence or morality.
Wed, 2008-11-05 19:39
#75
Cueball
Exactly. Enforced voting is violence. Allowing people the choice is the moral position. But being a moralist is quite different than being moral. Moralists always want to impose their morality on others.
[ 05 November 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]
Wed, 2008-11-05 19:40
#76
Jesus, Cueball. You never annoy me so much as when you're totally right, and then set about alienating everyone from your position with your combative attitude. But hey, that's your right. Just sayin'.
The concept of forcing people to vote is undeniably fascist. There are some forms of political coercion that we can't avoid. For instance, if this was a sane society, we would be coercing responsible environmental stewardship because the alternative is plummeting into ecological destruction.
Low voter turnouts, on the other hand, while regrettable, have never harmed anyone, nor are they responsible for any ills of society. Your fanciful notions that compulsory voting would help your political goals are based on no evidence or logic whatsoever, and would be a downright scary justification for such heavy-handed tactics if they were. Can't you see that you play right into the alarmist right-wing notion of the left as Stalinesque would-be dictators with this craziness?
Voting is about democracy. Democracy is about liberty. Who could tell me that I'd better exercise my liberty or pay the consequences and not explode from the hypocrisy? Get in the booth and be free or you'll wish you did. Don't argue, just do as you're told! I don't want any part of your so-called freedom when I'm marched into it at the point of a gun. Isn't this the same argument we've all been making about Iraq for five years? You can't coerce people into being democratic? Contradiction in terms? Any of this ring a bell?
I hate it when people don't vote. It grates on my nerves. It's such a small gesture and requires so little of you. Why throw away the slim vestige of democracy that our system affords? (don't answer that, Cueball) Despite this, I would never, ever, under any circumstances, not in a million years be so arrogant as to tell someone they had no right to refuse it. This is [i]their[/i] democratic franchise, the expression of their freedom. They can put it on a pedestal or shit all over it just as their heart desires because it belongs to [i]them[/i] and no one else.
You don't have the right to tell them what to do with it. Thank god.
Wed, 2008-11-05 19:41
#77
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
[b]Exactly. Enforced voting is violence.[ 05 November 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ][/b]
It is perceived as violence only for the immoral.
Wed, 2008-11-05 19:42
#78
quote:
Originally posted by Benoit:
[b]In politics you have only two choices: violence or morality.[/b]
There is always more choices.
Wed, 2008-11-05 19:43
#79
Cueball
quote:
Originally posted by Benoit:
[b]It is perceived as violence only for the immoral.[/b]
Bullshit how do you propose to make it mandatory?
Wed, 2008-11-05 19:43
#80
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
[b]Far from it. I was paying $10, [i]after taxes[/i] an hour to start 5 years ago. Skilled labour get more. You guys are a joke, from where I am standing.
[ 05 November 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ][/b]
The O'Liberals are the running joke with 10% of the province living anywhere below obscure poverty lines and hemorrhaging more jobs every day and over 1.2 million adults still not earning $10 bits an hour. But Cueball Inc. will be there to pick up the slack, we can be sure. All those who didn't vote must have been a-okay with their pathetic record for self-induced powerlessness at Queen's Perk.
Wed, 2008-11-05 19:44
#81
Cueball
quote:
Originally posted by Jacob Two-Two:
[b]Jesus, Cueball. You never annoy me so much as when you're totally right, and then set about alienating everyone from your position with your combative attitude. But hey, that's your right. Just sayin'.[/b]
What is wrong with allienating people who are promoting fascist ideas?
Wed, 2008-11-05 19:46
#82
quote:
What is wrong with allienating people who are promoting fascist ideas?
That you're not persuading them away from fascism. If that's not your intent, why do you waste all this energy. What are you trying to achieve?
Wed, 2008-11-05 19:47
#83
Cueball
I don't intend to persuade them, I am alienating them.
[ 05 November 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]
Wed, 2008-11-05 19:49
#84
I know. That's what annoys me.
Wed, 2008-11-05 19:50
#85
Cueball
I am supposed to be nice about fascism?
Wed, 2008-11-05 19:51
#86
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
[b]Bullshit how do you propose to make it mandatory?[/b]
I'm a deliberative democrat which means I proceed through collective deliberations.
Wed, 2008-11-05 19:52
#87
Cueball
Uh uh. You say you support forced voting. How would it be enforced?
Wed, 2008-11-05 19:55
#88
Steve and McGuilty: 22 percent tin pots
Wed, 2008-11-05 19:56
#89
Cueball
An opportunity to screen the entire population. A reason to update everyones personal information. Very scary if you have a criminal record. What kind of proofs would be needed? Where you live, or where you work all this information would be screened by the state.
No thanks.
Wed, 2008-11-05 19:58
#90
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
[b]Uh uh. You say you support forced voting. How would it be enforced?[/b]
It is easy to enforce if participating to census is, as it should be, compulsory.
Wed, 2008-11-05 19:58
#91
Cueball
And what if people decide not to comply? What then?
Wed, 2008-11-05 20:01
#92
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
[b]And what if people decide not to comply? What then?[/b]
Whatever the deliberative assembly has decided is good enough for me.
Wed, 2008-11-05 20:02
#93
Cueball
Shooting, then?
Wed, 2008-11-05 20:03
#94
It's easier for our paternalistic stoogeocrats to disenfranchise Canadians when they have no reason to vote ie. the unemployed, homeless, semi-homeless, working for slave wages and rags on their backs, in between jobs, in between cities/provinces, the sick and the dying, orphaned voters, frustrated voters etc It all adds up to phony-baloney democracy
Wed, 2008-11-05 20:04
#95
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
[b]Shooting, then?[/b]
Shooting them is the fascist way to do thing. Learn something about fascism. Fascism is about personally cult. It is about totally identifying yourself with the leader. For a fascist there cannot be more than one candidate to vote for.
[ 05 November 2008: Message edited by: Benoit ]
Wed, 2008-11-05 20:05
#96
Cueball
Oh not shooting them then. Asking them nicely then? What?
Wed, 2008-11-05 20:08
#97
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
[b]Oh not shooting them then. Asking them nicely then? What?[/b]
Rational people search for the most efficient method.
Wed, 2008-11-05 20:09
#98
Cueball
What if people don't comply with the most 'effcient method'?
Wed, 2008-11-05 20:09
#99
quote:
Originally posted by Benoit:
[b]Rational people search for the most efficient method.[/b]
And if I refuse?
Wed, 2008-11-05 20:11
#100
Just so long as they don't feel inclined to cast protest votes, stoogeocrats everywhere will be safe from democracy. It's an important theme of our own phony-baloney democracy
Wed, 2008-11-05 20:12
#101
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
[b]What if people don't comply with the most 'effcient method'?[/b]
It is a good question to be asked in a deliberative assembly. But in such an assembly, I bet you will develop a motivation to answer it.