Quebec election to follow federal election

Kinetix wrote:

What am I to do?

Offer to run for QS?

Sign the petition to demand that Québec solidaire and Parti vert be included in the televised leaders' debate:

[center][u]Débat Pour Tous[/u][/center]

Well, perhaps you would vote for such a rightwing, anti-working-class party, but that is your problem, as well as your odd desire for a return to the old order of "speak white".

Hate propaganda? What planet are you living on?

Martin, your link is no good. Try this one instead:

[center][u][url=http://quebecsolidaire.net/hochelaga-maisonneuve]Serge Mongeau announces candidacy in Hochelaga-Maisonneuve[/url] [/u][/center]

"...a return to the old order of "speak white."

Well let me wipe a tear for the suffering, oppressed multitudes of the Quebec of yesteryear. Oh wait, Quebecers are a part of the global colonialist populations that taught other nations how to speak white at the point of a gun and the edge of a bayonet across the world.

It's the native populations that are trying to piece together their disappearing languages while under the umbrella of civilized Europe, yet certain Quebecers would have you believe that they are the victims of North America - bullshit of course, to put it mildly.

Unionist, I can't seem to find the link for the English translation  on the QS link you posted.  If I am to communicate in French with my Francophone neighbours out of respect for their culture, then I expect the same courtesy in return before I consider casting my ballot for them.

"Screw off if you aren't prepared to learn French."

This is an assumption on your part. Whether or not I speak french is not the issue here. What is important to note is that there are a large number of Quebecers who share my views on the level of political representation that they recieve in this province. Your remark of not wanting my vote is highly indicative of the status many Anglphones and Allophones are subjected to as second class citizens who are consistently forced to vote for the lesser of all evils to them, but still have no voice. And when they do, as in the referendum, they are scapegoated by our political leaders and the applauding mobs of Herouxvillistes.

 "We told the fucker to go on in - but he just turned and ran. I think I was about to clobber the racist shit with my picket sign.."

Your endless self promotion is growing tiresome and gruesomely embarassing. I don't know why you must include these bits in all your posts when you feel challenged. I couldn't give a rats ass if you supported workers thirty years ago. It's an action that is generally rendered meaningless, in my opinion, when you support racially based policies such as 101 and the authorities that enforce such legislation by shutting down schools, designating the proper place for the use of a language, and bearing down on 'culprits' with fines and/or the loss of their jobs. These are not progressive policies and the next time you burp up the term Rhodesian, maybe you should check the mirror to see if the application fits the reflection better than your intended target.

"That candidate is in Hochelaga-Maisonneuve, not Verdun or the Point. There are practically no anglophones that far east, and every single one of them speaks French"

Again, it doesn't really matter where the candidate is running. I don't know any Anglophone Montrealers that do not speak French. The issue is not one of understanding the text. Contrary to your faulty perception of history, this province has NEVER been entirely made up of Francophones. These, 'autres' as they are disparagingly referred to, have the same right to be treated in an equal manner as their Francophone counterparts who will line up to vote. As such, if they will court my vote, they should at least offer a bilingual site for me to peruse, as I am forced to offer the same if I own any type of business in Quebec, even if it deals with out of province Anglophones a hundred percent of the time.

"Definitely agree with the work on reviving and promoting Aboriginal languages - I know people who are giving Innu lessons, and you can also learn Mohawk in these parts - but that is a different issue from your anti-Québécois rants."

I'm not the one making the plight of the FNs an issue in the Quebec political shere. It is apologists like yourself who seek to usurp the experience of dominated indigenous peoples around the world, often at the hands of Francophones, to seek justification for the 1930s worldview that is prevalent in this province - namely, a view that has race, religion and language at it's core as support for policies that are were better left in the past.

"I've been involved in labour and popular movements for decades - those who actually know me (including the founder of this site) can certainly confirm that. Including some very tough ones for refugee rights and against the discrimination experienced by immigrant workers. "

Good for you, but I don't recall asking for a resume. If you can't reach, maybe leaning against a wall will give you the pat you're looking for. The rest of your post, like every other of your challenged remarks, does not address any points. It's just an angry rhetort of a bruised ego. I don't know how you managed to defend a thesis in this manner but perhaps you should ask the educational institution for a refund.

"You are the one who is denying the history of oppression of the Québécois people, and the many progressive aspects of the struggle against it"

If you think that I'm doing this then perhaps you should educate me and the rest of the board about the oppression of the Francophones in Quebec. When I obtained my History degree and did my graduate studies the historical record did not justify your incessant whining.

I have never denied the progressive aspects of the Quiet Revolution, as I will not deny the benefits reaped by workers in fascist Europe under their totalitarian regimes. That does not mean that oppressing the minorities that live among us can be justified because the fucking trains run on time.

Your persistent refusal to aknowledge the concerns of hundreds of thousands of your fellow citizens who do not share your political views and to simply broadstroak them in villainous shades as bigots, intolerant etc, to shut them up, makes you the poster child of everything that is wrong with this province and a solid reminder that any pretensions of progressive ideals by Franco-first parties in this province are simply a case of the wolf masquerading as the shepherd.

So just don't respond to my posts. I'm not really interested in talking to you either.

Does anti-Québécois or anti-francophone bigotry get a pass on this board, or this site? It most certainly would not have been the intent of its founder, whom I have known for decades and who has always respected the Québécois people (of all ethnic origins) and recognised our right to self-determination.

I'm absolutely sure that if anyone were to troll the board with systemic insults against any other national, racial, sexual, gender or other human group as to how we are somehow congenitally fascist, or contruct straw-person oppression as in the "Fathers4Justice" as a means to go back to the old order, that person would have been long banned.

The insults regarding my honour as an activist and intellectual can be addressed elsewhere, but this person has systematically been insulting the entire Québécois social formation. This is counter to any attempt to build links with activists here in Québec, which was something the founders of rabble held very dear.

go fuck yourself, macho bully.

martin dufresne wrote:

As the one who started this thread, I protest viigan's continuous belittlement of Quebec progressives and especially his personal character assassination of lagatta.

What does anyone have to gain from his continuing presence on Babble?

Fully agree.

And speaking of your opening post, I am bemused at how the New Babble is trying to Russify our homeland:

Quote:

Quйbec solidaire intends to demand air time in televised ads and
leaders debates, as Quebec legislation allows for parties who have
garnered at least 5% of the popular vote in the latest contest.

The PQ's campaign is pretty impotent, pretty much reflecting the way their politics have degenerated.

Today on CBC Radio One, they had spokespersons for the Libs, the PQ, and the ADQ talking about health care. The ADQ character (while a creep in his own right) blasted the PQ for hypocrisy, pointing out (very accurately) how the Bouchard government had offered generous buyouts to doctors and other health care types in the 1990s while limiting enrolment in medical schools.

The cowardly PQ type (sorry, didn't catch the names) was feeble in response. I was hoping she would say:

[b]You're absolutely right. My party had lost its way ten years ago. That's history now. We're turning the page. We're going to reverse our errors in the course of crushing the "two tiers" that Charest has fostered and that your party would love to make a single private tier![/b]

But they don't like to get votes... So the beneficiary of the debate was the Liberal, and they haven't even issued a platform yet! They're copying the tactics of Dumont in 2007 and Harper in 2008, to not give the opposition a clear target. And in the absence of any vocal and visible opposition from the left, it may just work.

Weird events involving McKay's nomination meeting, as reported by the CEEB

http://www.cbc.ca/news/quebecvotes2008/story/2008/11/10/qv-pqfightassomp...

Chalk up another triumph for the vice and virtue committee, while at the same time, being left completely unaccountable for their own vitriolic performance.  Amazing

What's the likelihood that QS may win more seats than the ADQ?

Don't chortle.

martin dufresne wrote:

One interesting angle of the Quebec election is that now that there is a credible Left party on the ballot, pundits are rushing to the op-ed pages with pronouncements of the death of the Left or that Right-wing parties have now veered left or that the Parti Québécois is the Left or that the Left must become efficient, serious, etc. (Former Parizeau advisor Jean-François Lisée has just published a book by that title.) Clearly damage control moves from eightists [sic], including old-line sovereignists who don't seem to realize that QS is bringing back to politics a lot of folks who had grown disaffected since the various blows struck by Péquiste governments against the working class, which have led to its abandonment by almost all progressive organizations except at the time of referenda, none being forthcoming.

Who, Quebec solidaire? Bringing back to politics a lot of folks?  Four percent provincially, same as the Greens.  And that's electoral support, not partisan activists.

With all due respect, serious and credible parties win seats.  One will do.

"Eightists"?  Surely you mean rightists?

"Lost in translation: English mangled on notice sent to voters"

 http://tinyurl.com/68xjvb

" 'See to back' of notice for more information and be sure to 'stay inform' about how to vote.  Those
are examples of mangled English found on 3.7 million notices about
electoral-list revision that Quebec's chief electoral officer sent to
voters this week ...

" 'It's sloppy - they're mistakes a 3-year-old wouldn't make,' said
Allan Lemieux, a francophone. 'When we ask English people to translate
something into French and publish it, we expect it to be done
correctly. How can we ask that if we can't do it for English people?' ...

" 'We have been reproached in the National Assembly for providing
services in English" that go beyond what is required by law' [Denis Dion, a spokesperson for the chief electoral said] ..."

Kinetix wrote:

martindufresne, thank you.  As of my previous posting, the only candidates listed on the official site of the DGEQ were of the PQ and the ADQ.  As of today, the only ones listed are the PQ, Lib, Vert, and ADQ.  The QS candidate in Hochelaga-Maisonneuve appears not yet registered with the DGEQ.

I am trying to choose my words carefully, as I know that Québec has been a long fight indeed and I do not wish to belittle that.  

Before one makes assumptions about my language views, please note that I speak French in my home and am of Aboriginal, French and British heritage.  I feel that it is important for us as a society to remember why that fight was fought and to forge a new inclusive society with the Québecois French framework.  What I have seen happen here is the replacement of one dominant linguistic regime with another, and that is to our collective detriment. That being said, I am not interested in having this debate in this forum; I want help finding a suitable candidate to support.

The language laws in Quebec are not my primary concern, however, I still feel that they are important in how I decide to cast my ballot.  Our dollars, as few as there are, could be (in my opinion) better spent elsewhere, such as in healthcare or social housing as these are more important issues for me.  I don't like that my tax dollars are being spend to tell people what they're allowed to say and how they're allowed to say it, and such is my right as an elector.

Saying that I chose the wrong place to live is very unfortunate because I feel that regardless of where one chooses (or does not choose as circumstances arise) to live, one has the right to express opinions and speak out against what is perceived as an injustice.

I hope that explains my feelings on the issue.  I certainly didn't mean to bruise anyone.

Thanks for your consideration, we could use a lot more of that around here.  Simple justice demands no less.

One should have the right to express oneself freely, within certain limits, while taking responsibility for it.  But watch out for the progressive pile-on in this forum.

Your tax dollars could be put to different use, surely, and people's energies also could.  Good thing contributions to rabble.ca are not eligible for public subsidies.

I look forward to your further contributions to the discourse.

lagatta wrote:

Oh [aggressive language deleted] you're going to vote for a (centre) right bourgeois party because you don't agree with Quйbec solidaire about the constitution? Almost all the QS people I know voted for the NDP, though the latter is federalist. The election isn't a referendum.

Yes, QS stands for Quйbec sovereignty, mostly for reasons of democracy from below and self-determination, not nationalism. But it is rather obsessed with deliberation and democratic process - certainly not inclined to force an "йlection rйfйrendaire".

I know several non-sovereignists who vote QS, and at least one who has stood as a candidate for us.

Some such people apparently also vote for the Parti Quebecois:

http://tinyurl.com/62ofuu

""Support for sovereignty is on the decline and is now
perilously close to the psychological threshold of one third of the
electorate. Support for the yes side is now at 37 %, which is below the
result of the first referendum in 1980. Even more surprising,
one-quarter of PQ voters are now opposed to Québec sovereignty."

What's this I read about QS supporting an endum-referendum? A once-and-for-all vote on Quebec's place in Confederation?

Can we do it now, please?

Parti indépendantiste

[Wikipedia]

"According to leader Éric Tremblay, the PQ has given up the will to actively seek the sovereignty of Quebec. Tremblay considers that, if given a majority of seats at the National Assembly of Quebec, the Parti indépendantiste will have clear mandate to achieve sovereignty, even if it receives less than 50% of the popular vote.

"Its chief, Éric Tremblay,
does not hide his intention to put an end to all public financing of
English-language schools and hospitals come his election, even though
he would offer unilingual English-speakers care in their language.

"The party suggests a reduction of more than half of the number of
immigrants admitted, which would be reduced to 20 000, and the
selection of immigrants based solely on the knowledge of French.[1]"

There's no comparison with Affiliation Quebec.

There is lots of comparison between the hardline Parti indépendantiste and Nutik's nutgroup. Parties for narrow-minded bigots of their respective groups. Sadly, I know someone who ran for Parti indépendantiste last time. This created an uncomfortable moment at this year's May Day demonstration. I did not want to take her to task for that, but I don't feel "friendly" to someone who would support such a party either.

I believe you deleted "oh fuck", or something like that, which was an expression of exasperation, not aggression. I'm quite capable of being aggressive to rightwing trolls, and make no bones about that. The person I was exasperated about is a proclaimed leftist/feminist who was actually about to vote for the PLQ, a rightwing pro-business party. (I mean rightwing in that sense, not "far right" like the ADQ). I don't feel aggressive at all towards her, it is just a matter of throwing up my hands in dismay ...

At least I presume that is why you are quoting me out of the blue.

I never quote you out of the blue. I always try to make my comments cogent. Don't assume or presume, just ask.

Putting aside the question of tenor, show us one example of Allen Nutik's/AffiliationQuebec's putative "anti-French" tenets? Just one will suffice, and we can address that, reasonably.

Anti-sovereignty does not count, or there would be quite a few anti-French francophones in this province.