Will Dion/Rae agree to step aside for Ignatieff to be Prime Minister?

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Mon, 2008-12-01 13:32

madmax

kylebailey260 wrote:

Dion stepping aside at this point wouldn't do much good-

You have no idea how negativel Dion is viewed by the Public? Dion stepping aside would do alot of good. It will prevent alot of harm to the coalition. It will put on a good face for Dion leaving. Go anywhere, and say Prime Minister Dion and see if you get a warm fuzzy smile. This turkey ain't gonna fly. Don't do it!!! Be smart!!!

Dion can take credit for building the coalition and leave with dignity. But don't allow for a minute of seat time as the Prime Minister.

It is BAD politics and I hope the LPC and the NDP recognise such.

Of course Harper could rebound with Dion as Prime Minister.......

Mon, 2008-12-01 13:41

#53

Stockholm

According to CTV it will be Dion until may 2. Who cares? the coalition deal is to last 2.5 years and by the time it comes to an end, Dion's four months as interim PM will be ancient history.

Mon, 2008-12-01 13:51

#54

Papal Bull

"According to CTV it will be Dion until may 2. Who cares? the coalition
deal is to last 2.5 years and by the time it comes to an end, Dion's
four months as interim PM will be ancient history."

Yup, it could always be worse. Imagine the media frenzy if Rae was made interim PM, in a coalition propped up by the NDP?

Mon, 2008-12-01 13:52

#55

kylebailey260

madmax wrote:
kylebailey260 wrote:

Dion stepping aside at this point wouldn't do much good-

You have no idea how negativel Dion is viewed by the Public? Dion stepping aside would do alot of good. It will prevent alot of harm to the coalition. It will put on a good face for Dion leaving. Go anywhere, and say Prime Minister Dion and see if you get a warm fuzzy smile.

Actually, I think if you go to the 63% who voted ABC, and said PM Dion as leader of a Liberal/NDP coaltion...you would get an overwhlmingly warm response. Not really to Dion, but to the coalition as a a whole.

Who are those voters? Liberals, who will of course do anything to get power back, and will certainly swallow Dion for fourish months. NDPers, who are clearly getting a chance of a lifetime. Greens, many of whom have a crush on Dion for the Green Shift, and would probably see Dion as PM (Maybe with a Linda Duncan as enviro min?) as a golden opportunity to get a green shift actually done. and of course the Bloquistes, who have a grudging respect for him (which has got to be roughly equal if not better than how they feel about SH), and are really only in the game to bargain anyway. Dion did very well in the francophone leaders debates too (way better than the english ones).

I really don't think Dion is viewed negatively by the Canadian public at all. In fact, I'd say he is viewed as an honest, integral guy with a passion for the environment. Who happened to not do so well during the last election.

Mon, 2008-12-01 13:59

#56

jfb

kylebailey260 wrote:

A Liberal friend of mine says that Goodale is associated with the Rae camp- if that is true (which is probably subjective depending upon which LIberals you talk too)- then Dion would be a more honest broker/interim leader until the race.

Dion stepping aside at this point wouldn't do much good- the two former roommates appear intent on taking the leadership to May 2. I think having another interim leader, even if one could be found who isn't perceived as associated with either camp- wouldn't be adding or removing any poison from the chalice of power passed from an interim to a new leader.

I agree with jas- time to see the how the leadership candidates respond in a coalition gov't would be nice.

Personally, I think Rae has so much to gain by having a chance to prove his statesmanship (esp. vis a vis the NDP caucus, and the left wing of the Liberal party), that there is no way he'll let Iggy take power. Having the support of 50 of 77 MPs (and where exatly does this figure come from, other than Iggy camp spin?) won't allow Iggy to grasp the reins. Iggy would need to call riding presidents, youth leaders etc....and he can't do that quietly and without upsetting a chance for a coalition.

Question for those who know NDP popular, and federal caucus support better than I:

There is a perception that Rae is 'persona-non-grata' to dippers...but how long would that last in a situation where they sit down in caucus together and everybody has two swallow the lesser of two weevils?

The NDP would not be interested in Rae as a leader no matter how statesman like he is. We just had an election where Rae was the "NDP battering ram" so, no we are not going to get all warm and fuzzy. Besides that, we have Rae to thank for the problems with electing NDPers. So no, we are not going to warm up to Rae.

______________________________________________________________________________________
Our kids live together and play together in their communities, let's have them learn together too!

Mon, 2008-12-01 14:03

#57

duncan cameron

Dion has been confirmed as leader of the coalition by Liberals leaving their caucus meeting that just ended.

Mon, 2008-12-01 14:10

#58

Scott Piatkowski Scott Piatkowski's picture

duncan cameron wrote:
Dion has been confirmed as leader of the coalition by Liberals leaving their caucus meeting that just ended.

Edward Blake's position in history is secure!

Mon, 2008-12-01 14:13

#59

madmax

kylebailey260 wrote:

Not really to Dion, but to the coalition as a a whole.

Who are those voters?

I am waiting to find one, and I seriously mean one, on the street, at random, who says, they want to see Dion as Prime Minister. It doesn't happen, and it hasn't happened yet. This is 3 days running now. I receive open hostility and anger. As soon as any other name is mentioned, there is varing degrees of positive and negative response. I must not have bumped into any hardcore LPC in three days who want to accept Dion as Prime Minister.

Quote:
I really don't think Dion is viewed negatively by the Canadian public at all. In fact, I'd say he is viewed as an honest, integral guy with a passion for the environment. Who happened to not do so well during the last election.

You really don't think Dion is viewed Negatively by the Canadian Public?

Heaven forbid people share that view within the LPC

OH CRAP!!!

DION LEADER OF COALITION

Mon, 2008-12-01 14:17

#60

josh

duncan cameron wrote:
Dion has been confirmed as leader of the coalition by Liberals leaving their caucus meeting that just ended.

Bad public relations move. But it might have been the only way to get Iggy on board.

Mon, 2008-12-01 14:18

#61

madmax

The LPC have handed Harper a christmas present.

Mon, 2008-12-01 14:23

#62

Caissa

Yeah, an eviction notice from 24 Sussex Dr.

Mon, 2008-12-01 14:25

#63

madmax

josh wrote:

duncan cameron wrote:
Dion has been confirmed as leader of the coalition by Liberals leaving their caucus meeting that just ended.

Bad public relations move. But it might have been the only way to get Iggy on board.

TERRIBLE PR. I can't wait for the fireworks.

How does DION staying on as LPC leader bring Iggy on Board?

Mon, 2008-12-01 14:28

#64

Caissa

Dion was the only reasonable choice. There will be a new PM in May.

Mon, 2008-12-01 14:28

#65

josh

I think he was worried that another interim leader, like Goodale, could have put a crimp in his leadership plans.

Mon, 2008-12-01 15:06

#66

V. Jara

Stockholm wrote:
According to CTV it will be Dion until may 2. Who cares? the coalition deal is to last 2.5 years and by the time it comes to an end, Dion's four months as interim PM will be ancient history.

This is good. The new Liberal leader will be strait-jacketed by the coalition for up to two years. Usually the first thing a new leader should do is seek a legitimate mandate and the Liberals won't be able to do that without serious political costs. They will also be led by a real lame duck, sock puppet in the interim- Dion's reward for leaving peacefully. Have fun with that one Liberals. Finally, during the coalition forming to May honeymoon (assuming there is one) period, Ignatieff, Rae, and Leblanc will probably be excluded from cabinet to avoid giving any one an "advantage." The NDP could need to take advantage of their absence and Dion's lame duckness by trying to hog the media spotlight in an attempt to set the "agenda for government."

I think who the NDP picks for cabinet is partly dependent on which ministries they got. I am also working on the same assumption as everyone else that the NDP will aim for gender parity. Previous cabinet experience and bilingualism will count for a lot. In terms of regions, the NDP has to give Northern Ontario something because it holds virtually all the seats there. BC probably needs some representation because 10 of the NDP seats come from there and there are still seats to be won in BC. I think BC is mildly likely to get the shaft though, because the NDP has a House Leader and Assistant Deputy Speaker from there. That being said, I'd be pleased with the following:

HRSD- Godin

Heritage- Mulcair

Environment- Duncan

Health- Judy W-L

+ the two others

Mon, 2008-12-01 15:14

#67

remind

This is how I see part of this coalition cabinet

PM – Dion’

Intergovernmental Affairs - Layton

Government House Leader - Libby Davies

Finance - Goodale

Foreign Affairs - Iggy SoS Paul Dewar

Justice - Scott Bryson SoS- Megan
Leslie

Environment - Linda Duncan

Citizenship, Immigration and Multiculturalism - SoS Olivia Chow

Heritage - Charlie Angus

Defense- Mulcair

Public Works – Bob Rae SoS Irene
Mathyssen

Indian Affairs - Jean Crowder

Fisheries and Oceans - SoS Jack Harris

Agriculture - Wayne Easter SoS Alex Atamanenko

Pulic safety - Mark Holland SoS Dawn Black

Industry - Le Blanc? SoS T Martin?

Human Rights- Hedy Fry or Dosanjh?

Health - Judy Wasylycia-Leis

National Revenue - Martha Hall Findlay?

Human Resuorces - Hedy Fry or Dosanjh?

Etd because we only get six out of 24 and hopefully a bunch of SoS positions and hopefully no NDP to go the lesser portfolios I left out.

___________________________________________________________

"watching the tide roll away"

Mon, 2008-12-01 15:37

#68

Lard Tunderin Jeezus Lard Tunderin Jeezus's picture

I think it is telling that madmax is the only one here who expressed a problem with Dion becoming PM initially. He is not seen as a problem by most. Indeed, a coronation of Ignatieff would be far more problematic for most.

Mon, 2008-12-01 15:40

#69

pogge

V. Jara wrote:
Dion's lame duckness

I believe the technical term is "lame duckitude."

Mon, 2008-12-01 15:43

#70

Fidel

josh wrote:
I think he was worried that another interim leader, like Goodale, could have put a crimp in his leadership plans.

That guy should be given a cabinet position sans portfolio and allowed nowhere near another federal finance dept. The Liberals are already talking about Frank McKenna and John Manley participating in advisory roles on the economy. I think it would be a conflict of interest seeing as both of them are board members of two of Canada's largest banks. Those two are stooges for American interests. I'm not crazy about this coalition with the reLiberals already.

Mon, 2008-12-01 15:45

#71

Bookish Agrarian

no, no- its lame duckiness

Mon, 2008-12-01 15:47

#72

remind

Lard Tunderin' Jeezus wrote:
I think it is telling that madmax is the only one here who expressed a problem with Dion becoming PM initially. He is not seen as a problem by most. Indeed, a coronation of Ignatieff would be far more problematic for most.

What is it "telling" of? Though I concur, I would rather be in an accord with Dion, than with Iggy or Rae.

___________________________________________________________
"watching the tide roll away"

Mon, 2008-12-01 15:52

#73

The Bish

It's seemed pretty clear to me from the start that Dion was the most logical choice for PM. If the Liberals had just declared someone else was their leader without a convention, that would have given the Conservative talking point about a coup d'etat that much more steam. Plus Dion is on the left-wing of the Liberals, which would make it easier for the NDP and Bloc to work with him. On top of that, it's already clear that he's stepping down in May, which means the Liberals now have time to properly sort out their leadership issues.

Mon, 2008-12-01 17:20

#74

madmax

Caissa wrote:
Yeah, an eviction notice from 24 Sussex Dr.

The coalition is sending the eviction notice, not the LPC.

Mon, 2008-12-01 17:33

#75

Michelle

This thread might actually be unique enough to keep going separately. But if it starts getting off topic of the Liberal leadership and onto general discussion about coalition, we'll be moving to the coalition thread.

Mon, 2008-12-01 17:42

#76

madmax

Lard Tunderin' Jeezus wrote:
I think it is telling that madmax is the only one here who expressed a problem with Dion becoming PM initially. He is not seen as a problem by most. Indeed, a coronation of Ignatieff would be far more problematic for most.

This is a very forgiving forum for politicians such as Dion. That is not so true of the electorate. I am not alone with regards to Dion, not even in this forum. I don't like the thought of Dion handing the keys back to Harper. As for Ignatieff, isn't a new leader coming on board in May? If it is Iggy, how will he be less of a problem? I didn't say any of the LPC leadership choices were anything to write home about. You can only do so much with slim pickings. I await tommorrows coffeeshop talk.

I am adding some LPC thoughts from Liberal for Life Blog

Quote:
Although I'm slightly less gung ho about this coalition than I was, but for the same reason. I don't trust Layton as far as I can throw him, better the Devil you know right? But even though Layton's a moron we can't back down on this or else the Conservatives will bankrupt the opposition parties.

Still I'm off the idea of Dion as leader, there's no way he can handle a shady bastard like Layton, we need someone who can.

Once thing is clear, the NDP and LPC are in the boat together.

Mon, 2008-12-01 17:59

#77

Michelle

Let's continue here since this thread is getting long, and I wanted to consolidate this with the shorter one anyhow.

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