Cell phone video captures police killing of unarmed man in Oakland
Fri, 2009-01-09 20:38
#1
derrick
Cell phone video captures police killing of unarmed man in Oakland
Sat, 2009-01-10 01:47
#2
Cueball
Disgusting execution.
Sat, 2009-01-10 07:30
#3
Infuriating. That pig is lucky the entire train full of people didn't show him some justice. It's not likely he'll get any in court.
Sat, 2009-01-17 12:31
#4
Some good follow-up in this duplicate thread. (But let's continue discussion here in this earlier thread - just didn't want the info that Martin posted to be lost.)
Fri, 2009-02-06 01:21
#5
Witnesses say they were beaten by BART cops:
http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_11630509
Resistance continues:
http://www.sfbg.com/blogs/politics/2009/02/regular_protests_mark_oscar_g...
Thu, 2009-03-05 12:35
#6
[u][color=red][url=http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2009/03/oscar_grant_tribunal.php]The "liberal" SF Weekly scoffs at People's Tribunal plan on Oscar Grant killing.[/url][/color][/u]
Thu, 2009-03-05 16:34
#7
Five bucks says the cops try to confiscate the video and prosecute the filmer under the guise of obstructing justice. Remember the RCMP tizzy over the Youtube video of Dziekanski? Now that the trial's on, we know why. They cooked up an ass-covering story and have stuck to it even though the video proves otherwise.
Fri, 2009-03-06 10:24
#8
That People's Tribunal sounds great! Even more so for the criticism it is drawing; highlights the US establishment's fear of the people.
Fri, 2009-03-06 12:09
#9
The Tribunal is great, yeah. It highlights also, unfortunately, how even the single most progressive area in the entire US marginalizes antiracist thinking. When for instance the Bay Area Rapid Transit police chief (it's BART cops that are implicated here) calls on his officers to make donations to Mehserle, the press treats it as an isolated act of boneheadism, not as part of a pattern of racism that's emerging.
Mon, 2009-03-23 12:03
#10
[u][url=http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/03/23/MNDR16L705.D... compares Oakland to "Detroit" after police killed.[/url][/u]
This is likely to delay the Mehserle trial as well.
[u][url=http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2009/03/09/18575830.php]Video and other reports on tribunal here.[/url][/u]
--
"One law for the lion and the ox is oppression" - Blake
Mon, 2009-03-23 12:21
#11
Cueball
I was born in Oakland. Any notion that it is not as bad as Detriot is merely a sense of well being triggered by nicer weather.
Mon, 2009-03-23 12:33
#12
A few dozen people gathered Sunday on MacArthur Boulevard where the first two officers were shot Saturday. Ordinarily, victims are memorialized within hours by neighbors and friends who pile up mounds of flowers, stuffed animals, liquor bottles, photos and candles. Yet in another example of the neighborhood's mixed feelings about the police, only four votive candles had been placed along a chain-link fence.
Gee, I wonder why? Oh yeah:
Some young people said they distrust the police because officers unnecessarily harass them. "You can't walk down the street with a hoodie on your head, dreads on your head, without the police hassling you," said Mike Davis, 19, who lives near 74th Avenue and MacArthur Boulevard. "If you're in a car with rims or tinted windows or loud music, they're going to harass you because they've got more power."
Mon, 2009-03-23 12:44
#13
Luckily, Oakland media has nice, white people like Chip Johnson to tell the people of the city what to do and how to feel about these police shootings, and to chastise those disenfranchised and marginalized communities who are more angry about racist police officers killing and racially profiling people in their communities than they are about this incident.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/03/23/MNPG16L7DK.DTL
I wonder if Chip Johnson dedicated a column to publicizing a memorial for Oscar Grant?
"Routine traffic stop," huh? Yeah, I'm sure the black residents of town know all about routine traffic stops - sounds like it's a regular part of their routine when a police car spots them on the road.
Mon, 2009-03-23 12:50
#14
Rexdale_Punjabi
disgusting but they will be brought to justice. Ever wonder why police stations look like fortresses surrounded by those spiked fences and havin barricades on em in the hood? but no in the rich areas? cuz they know what happens when shit breaks lose ppl go for the cops 1st. the war in the streets is colors but it blacc vs blue not the blue vs red u been told. dam i wish my cellphone had video on it the things I could show u dam
Mon, 2009-03-23 13:08
#15
I was born in Oakland. Any notion that it is not as bad as Detriot is merely a sense of well being triggered by nicer weather.
Cueball, I thought that Oakland was in the process of being revitalized/gentrified as of late. My brotehr used to live in San Francisco and says that since the lack of real estate and crazy housing costs in SF, lots of younger families have been moving over to Oakland and turning it around. Lots of the high-tech workers seem to be flooding the area and making the commute to silicon valley.
Mon, 2009-03-23 13:19
#16
Cueball
Uhh, this statement, more than any other you have made indicates that you and I have a substantially different view of the world.
"Turning it around" = destroying the existing culture of the city, the city that was the birth place of the Black Panthers, and made names like Huey Newton, and Bobby Seale famous. I should say the city is being destroyed by an invasion of young wealthy people who are taking advantage of the destitution of the once relatively prosperous working class community that existed there, and driving them from their communities.
But I am just being nostalgic. There are and were many good things about Oakland.
Mon, 2009-03-23 13:22
#17
Rexdale_Punjabi
exactly me n Cue lookin at it from the bottom SSC from the elite. Gentrification forces the poor into more areas that deemed what the word ima go with unwanted. Happening the downtown core in TO. Instead of fixing the problem all ur doing is taking it elsewhere. "Beachfront Brazilians favelas that u livin in/ the hood is prime real estate they want bacc in again/ " - Immortal Tech from the Song Harlem Renessaince tru words. Fucc Gentrification fucc tearin down the projects so some rich ass muthafucca can build his 1mil dollar condos there. We have a right to exist and live peacefully too without being threatened with eviction every other day esp downtown cuz condos would be a "better" use of the land.
edit- Also SSC saying that young rich white families moving into a city "turns it around" shows what u really think of us son. Cue u right he got a way dif view of the world. I bet u thinking right now well maybe if they didn't do all those things like gangbang they wouldn't be poor and stucc in the hood. Or you think the poor are poor cuz they lazy or deserve that the vibe im getting off ur words.
Mon, 2009-03-23 13:26
#18
maybe we do come at it from different perspectives. I look at run-down crime-ridden areas where people live in fear and welcome changing that. And I do think that, in many cases, nice condos ARE a better use of space since it means tax revenues for the city, it means wealthier people who can attract businesses, it means more people taking transit to work or driving a short distance instead of driving their car an hour each direction, it means sustainable land use instead of urban sprawl.
If you want to see a city completely devoid of any gentrification, just look at Detroit. I'd take downtown Toronto over that any day.
Mon, 2009-03-23 13:27
#19
Gentrification is definitely up in Oakland. I can't tell you the number of resulting sustained moans in print from the people who have moved in, about the fact that the old Oakland is still there. The greater gentrification means that there are more complaints and you see a monthly column somewhere about "I'm moving out of Oakland, it has failed to meet my standards." (But hey, the Chronicle, which I linked to, is about to be shut down, maybe this kind of divorced-from-reality coverage is the reason.)
Never been to Detroit, can't say it's better, worse, the same, or if the whole comparison is stupid. It's just that "Detroit" here is code for equating blackness, poverty, crime and violence into one big stew that the likes of the current media coverage has cooked up.
Mon, 2009-03-23 13:33
#20
Cueball
Well, we lived up the hill a bit, which if you know Oakland tells you where I am looking at if from. But not right on top of the hill. But, being white, and walking around Oakland taught me a lot about racism and fear. On the other hand it also taught me a lot about the power of community. I saw Peter Tosh perform there on the night after the Grateful Dead played on the same stage. So, I cherrish it.
Mon, 2009-03-23 13:33
#21
Rexdale_Punjabi
the people live in fear of the police cuz they racist. According to you changing that is changing the racial makeup which is racist. You saying ppl in the hood don't take transit? shit we take it more BECAUSE we can't afford cars. so ur only look out for the rich white ppl? OMG the poor rich white kid has to drive to work longer so why not steal the only thing the poor POC have their neighbourhoods. Urban sprawl? Nigga the suburbs is urban sprawl with the houses everywhere even the houses in the hood are like apartments compared to the suburban ones. The hood manages to fit close to 50-60k ppl in a 2km square area going from doomztown to steeles and there houses in that area. Can you show me suburbs that do the same? Detroit is poor cuz the manufacturing jobs left it the downtown is gentrified. And it exists as a result of this racist ass system.
ur just a racist classist person aint u. And realize something changing what? forcing the people in the "run-down crime-ridden area" somewhere else? where you don't have to see it? and then you say how are we ignoring yur problems?and I think you'd rather only have parts of downtown aka not regent, P.O, P.K, V.P, St.Jamestown or any of the other hoods only the rich white parts
Mon, 2009-03-23 13:35
#22
edit- Also SSC saying that young rich white families moving into a city "turns it around" shows what u really think of us son.
Please do not put words in my mouth. I said 'young families'. Nowhere did the words "rich" or "white" appear. if you want to take issue with my perspective, that's fine but do not engage in fundamental dishonesty.
Mon, 2009-03-23 13:38
#23
Rexdale_Punjabi
that's all it ever means code words don't try to look innocent on here ppl know what you talking about.
"My brotehr used to live in San Francisco and says that since the lack of real estate and crazy housing costs in SF, lots of younger families have been moving over to Oakland and turning it around. Lots of the high-tech workers seem to be flooding the area and making the commute to silicon valley."
u said ur jewish which basically white. the crazy housing costs also something generally only white/rich ppl talk about cuz in the hood u got rent lol and the houses cheaper anyway. the high-tech workers are almost always white with some asians who are part of the elite anyway. if you say something sticc to it like a man don bacc down. u can apologize or some shit but don't try to make it look like u never said shit when clearly you have and it there for all to see.
Mon, 2009-03-23 13:38
#24
Cueball
It's not really a "words in mouth" thing. It's the failure to see what the words don't say, that should be said.
Mon, 2009-03-23 13:39
#25
OMG the poor rich white kid has to drive to work longer so why not steal the only thing the poor POC have their neighbourhoods. Urban sprawl? Nigga the suburbs is urban sprawl with the houses everywhere even the houses in the hood are like apartments compared to the suburban ones.
Did you read my post? I'm saying I want MORE people taking transit. I'd rather FEWER people drive 2 hours a day and spew exhaust fumes into the air. I'd rather REDUCE urban sprawl so that we're NOT paving voer over forests to build McMansions. I think having middle class and - gasp! - even "wealthy" people in urban centres is actually a good thing. But you seem too resentful of "rich ass muthafuckas" to recognize that they're a necessary component or urban revitalization./
Mon, 2009-03-23 13:39
#26
Rexdale_Punjabi
I think he knows perfectly well what they say and don't say he just denying it cuz of the site he on. It pretty obvious when someone says run-down crime-ridden area that it aint a happy white suburb that comes to mind.
Mon, 2009-03-23 13:42
#27
Rexdale_Punjabi
the way u want to go about it shows a total disregard for the poor part of society that evidently u aint a part of cuz u dont give a shit. U want them forced out so the rich can move in. Resentful aint the right word it would mean I want what they have.
"I don't want to escape the plantation, I wanna come bacc, free all my ppl, hang the muthafucca who put me there, and burn the place down" - Immortal Technique
Understand?
Mon, 2009-03-23 13:43
#28
u said ur jewish which basically white. the crazy housing costs also something generally only white/rich ppl talk about cuz in the hood u got rent lol and the houses cheaper anyway. the high-tech workers are almost always white with some asians who are part of the elite anyway.
Who gives a shit if someone is Jewish or Asian or white or whatever the hell? You're the one stereotyping by suggesting only "whites" or "jews" are rich and care about good neighbourhoods and seem to lump other ethnicities into the impoverished in the "hood" which is not the case. You don't ahve to be white or "rich" to want your kids to be able to live in a safe neighbourhood.
Mon, 2009-03-23 13:45
#29
Rexdale_Punjabi
im not suggesting that only whites are rich im saying generally that what happens. and that right you have ot be white to want safety but you have to be blind to not see the racial and class aspect of what really hapening.
edit- and don't tell me shit about who cares YOU have the luxury of not caring I don't.
Mon, 2009-03-23 13:47
#30
Cueball
It's all tied together for sure.
But I think its really hard for Canadians, and especially white Canadians to see just how really brutal the cops are in the States. They look the same pretty much. I have friends from Pitsburgh who were really stunned at the idea that anyone would even think of the idea of going into a police station and file a report or make a complaint. But you can still do that here, and the cops are relatively under control.
I gotta say the blatantness of this execution really stunned me, even for US cops. Not a second thought, he just whipped out his gun and shot this guy in the back of the head in front of 50 people, in a crowded BART station.
Mon, 2009-03-23 13:47
#31
Rexdale_Punjabi
you can't make no complaint against the police in Toronto lol have fun trying. Uh yea I wanna make a report on the gang unit. Theyll start laughing right there you can't make a report against them it what 1 POC vs 3 or 4 white cops who the jury gonna beleive? add in the fact that the 1 guy proly has a couple charges and lives in the "wrong" area and you have a failed case.
Mon, 2009-03-23 13:53
#32
Cueball
This may be true. But if you did that in Oakland they would take you down stairs and then beat you up directly and then laugh at you. Its a completely different kind of thing. And that is the essence of what I am saying.
I have never seen cops here taunt people and stir shit up, just so they could make an arrest, and I have seen plenty of that in the states.
So who even knows what was going on before the cameras are rolling.
Mon, 2009-03-23 13:57
#33
Rexdale_Punjabi
and here ull get the gang unit after you n proly get ur ass kicceed while u in the projects infront of every1 and have every1 around u proly strip searched in public it the same shit bro
edit- cue what part of TO u live in u see it all the time theyll be beating the shit out of a 12 or 13 year old to make an arrest
edit- I don't think they knew the camz were rollin and ill try and find the longer video. What happened was the dudes were standing and they were cuffed against the train then one of the cops punches the man who got shot and they all sit down and put their hands up like yo we aint done nothing chill. and shit starts happening dudes gettin taccled and then the gun comes out
Mon, 2009-03-23 13:59
#34
Cueball
Yes well, being the guy I am I don't make it up to Chalk Farm very often, so I'll take your word for it. But the evidence speaks for itself. We just have to look at the video to see how confident the cops are in the states.
That was just a straight up public execution. A demonstration I guess, for everybody to see. "We can do this, and we will do this, and the press will cover our ass."
And then the press does cover this guys ass, Its just amazing. You watch the video, then read the press reports and you can't connect the two things.
Mon, 2009-03-23 14:07
#35
Rexdale_Punjabi
I hear u id still like to beleive there would be a public outcry if a blacc man was publicly killed by a cop like this in TO but I doubt it a lil white girl aka jane creba though hell would break loose. Just see what 23 division does n it the same across the city.
edit- bro the week before march break they had my school on Loccdown while they basically raided it they had canine unit, swat teams, undies, and a bunch of squad cars and they searched bare ppl and sniffed all the loccers. And guess waht do you see it on the news? why cuz nobody gives a shit that ppl in the hood have their constitutional rights violated every single day and in schools too. their reason "we beleive there maybe guns in the school". Did they find any? I don't think they laid a single charge in the raid cuz ppl slicc like that they werent gonna find shit. They never even got ppl for weed but they beat the shit out of lots of ppl cuz ppl heard there was a loccdown and started running for class and cops think we running from them so they taccle bare ppl like me and my bois. What did we have on us nothing? What did they think we had on us? Every weapon imaginable. Why? You think about it. The only not-white cop was some sellout ass asian man.
edit- Actually im sure they never laid any charges cuz no1 was arrested or we would have known about it or seen it we were near the front of the school. so wtf is that. no accountability or anything just when they feel like it they can.
Mon, 2009-03-23 14:15
#36
Rexdale_Punjabi
exactly always have lotz of cruisers esp if it a white area they wanna show ppl they "doing their job". But bro ur white u can go in like that me it like this. "Yes u seem to match this describtion and this one. We are looking for one blacc male between 4ft 7 and 6ft 6 lol between 120-250 pounds and wearing baggy clothing. Step over here to be processed." im joking around but the descriptions are never really good so u don't go in there unless you get arrested or to bail someone out.
Mon, 2009-03-23 14:16
#37
I'm not surprised at all by that, R_P. I figured stuff like that would be happening more often now that the Toronto Police have stationed officers right in the schools. We had a thread on that a while back, too.
Mon, 2009-03-23 14:16
#38
Cueball
Sure. They do that. It's getting worse. I saw the cops come after these three black guys from the suburbs three weeks ago, for what amounted to a minor bar fight, and there were ten cruisers, despite the fact that the original officers had everything basically under control. Matched the description of an armed gangbanger they were looking for, so they said. Description: "Black male with baggy pants." So just about anyone.
And yes, I did go down to the station and I did file a report that contradicted some of the story as it was obviously being set up for trial. Originally they refused to take my statement, but I forced them too. Maybe that is just the white teflon working for me, but I dont think I would do that in Oakland. I don't know if I will follow that up, but as we used to say, they need to know that "little brother is watching back."
So I see it. And maybe we are catching up. And I agree we have to figure out some way to limit police power before they get as confident as those transit cops.
Mon, 2009-03-23 14:18
#39
Cueball
exactly always have lotz of cruisers esp if it a white area they wanna show ppl they "doing their job".
Bingo. So I went down to the station to make it clear that I did not think they were doing their job very well.
Mon, 2009-03-23 14:25
#40
Rexdale_Punjabi
ty. it weird thought how they always deploy POC to the white areas and the opposite for the hood. All the small town redneccs come to the hood. In my life I seen 6 POC as cops. 2 asians dudes, 1 jamaican, 3 indians. really 2 asian ppl 4 blacc ppl. rest have all been white. one a regular day just in lets say albion mall u got. 2-3 cruisers in the parking lot. u got 2-3 goin up n down kendleton proly around to O-Blocc. Got a couple going up albion and turning and going down finch. Got a couple on martingrove, n a bunch in doomz, stove, MOC, n around KP. plus always a bunch of random undercovers, and always a couple cruisers in the albion plaza, 1 atleast making rounds betwen the rowntree and north kipling plaza usually 2. You have a couple making a round between smithfield, John D. Parker, Highfield and 1 that turns and goes to clairvillle go kids are being criminalized by the cops. If one of these cops is being paid even 30-40g n the undies more think about how much money is being sunk into that. O and I forgot all the parking enforcement cars randomly going up n down. and all the ones around the high schools. and this doesnt include humberwood lol cuz I don't go around those ways. Mine is proly a low estimate cuz I don't go around doomztown everyday. But I know by heart basically the where the others are lol. That called knowing ur area. Just highlighting an example of what it mean when ppl say in the hood we have a fucced up relationship with cops.
Mon, 2009-03-23 14:31
#41
Rexdale_Punjabi
another thing we don't realize though (might be wrong don't take the subway that often and don't go around east ends) is that most of the stations ain't right in the hood they outside so you wouldn't have the same hood ppl vs cops relationship in that area. Personally like Kipling station the one I know best is in one of the richest areas in TO or near it. And I think finch and Jane ones are the same not in the hood really.
Mon, 2009-03-23 14:50
#42
Cueball
Oh you don't have to thank me. I really don't want anyone ripping up the neighborhood, at all, cops included.
But the main thing is that it looks like the situation with policing might be getting out of control. And so that is why, its important to keep these doors open while we sitll can, before the transit cops start doing public executions.
So, yes, people have to make complaints, and have to go down to the cop shop to file them. Easy for me to say because I have white teflon everywhere I go, but if I don't use it I know one day I might not have it anymore.
And the way I do it, is I never get angry (at least not visibly so) and I treat them like like they are bank teller or someone in the service industry, politely and professionally. Trying to keep it in their mind that they are working for me.
Question authority before authority questions you.
But, if there is an avenue that you can safely make stink, its worth doing.
Mon, 2009-03-23 14:51
#43
Cueball
Anyway. thanks. Gtg.
Mon, 2009-03-23 14:52
#44
Rexdale_Punjabi
yep and for ppl who don't think they have an agenda? one peice of evidence all it takes. A lil while ago Law STudents at York U were going around JnF wit brochures telling ppl what their rights are and the 32 div pigz got pissed. That aint illegal so why they pissed? hmm ....
edit- Yea ppl in the hood tho we always co-operate with cops and still get our asses kicced. Lol you don't move in ur car and go for license n shit at night or fucc it even day till asked with a flaslight in ur face. Cuz u know they'll pop u n say ur cellphone looked like a gun and you don't wanna go out like that. Not cuz ur scared of death but cuz u still have shit u feel u got to do.
Tue, 2009-03-31 12:09
#45
A disgraceful double standard continues, as the knives come out for Oakland mayor Ron Dellums. Dellums was (of course) at the memorial service for the four policemen. The families of two asked him not to speak. He agreed. This is now spun as a failure on his part. Check this rhetoric from one columnist:
Dellums arrived at the police officers' union hall five hours after the shooting. A council member said the mayor - by his own inaction - has become "irrelevant" and of no use. Even with a week to come up with something - anything - to acknowledge the sense of moral outrage felt by the community - and the nation - Dellums shows no resolve, no gumption to use police resources to confront criminal elements in our city. Dellums was gracious, eloquent and sincere in his apologies, condolences and sympathies to the officers' families, but he never captured the outrage felt in his city.
[u][url=http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/03/31/BAIS16PMCR.D... must go[/url][/u]
Why are the knives out? Because Dellums has been gracious but not turned this into a "war on crime." And maybe because of who he is....
[u][url=http://www.mayorrondellums.org/career/]Who is Ron Dellums?[/url][/u]
--
"One law for the lion and the ox is oppression" - Blake
Tue, 2009-03-31 12:42
#46
Ze:
I couldn't open your second link but, besides being set in Oakland and featuring police officers, what does this story have to do with the OP? At first I thought it was the same event but it would appear to be unrelated and the story you've linked makes no reference to the story in the OP. Sorry, just a little confused, your posts tend to be relevant and on topic so I assume I am missing something. Who is Ron Dellums? (and why is he in this thread?) 
Tue, 2009-03-31 18:19
#47
Ron Dellums is the mayor of Oakland. The two cases of a BART cop shooting a black man on the subway, and a black man shooting 4 cops in Oakland, are being linked constantly here in Northern California. (I suppose I could start a new thread for the cop-killing, but I'm not big on thread proliferation.) But one gets the outpouring of grief and demands for outrage, while the other sees no justice for the victim. In one, a black man is essentially executed, in the other the black community is painted as the authors of crime because one black man shot 4 cops. But maybe I'm too "emotionally involved" in this one.
Link for Dellums career -- http://www.mayorrondellums.org/career/
Mon, 2009-05-18 11:41
#48
[url=http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/05/18/MNB016IR1R.D... hearing starts today in BART killing[/url]
Mon, 2009-05-18 13:51
#49
Defense attorneys are just as eager to knock the case down to manslaughter before it ever goes to a jury. They say Mehserle, 27, fired his pistol at 22-year-old Oscar Grant of Hayward early New Year's Day while intending to shock the supermarket worker with a Taser stun gun.
I don't know if that defence is going to fly. Since when do cops taser people on the head?