I drove by the LCBO on Sunday and it looked busy. was anyone at the protest? did a lot of people show up to protest?
I read in the Sun that 150 cases of wine were sold during the boycott. If so did it work?
Israeli Wine Protest at Summerhill LCBO
Mon, 2009-04-13 19:33
#1
Israeli Wine Protest at Summerhill LCBO
Mon, 2009-04-06 11:28
#2
Oh, I meant to post that protest notice here. If you are so concerned about the protest going well, why didn't you post it, jpj? Unless I missed it.
Mon, 2009-04-06 11:49
#3
Michelle not that it really matters but actually I did not see the emails from a number of lists that I am on including NION, Eibi and Smadar's emails until after i drove by on Sunday.
My comp at home has been in the shop :-( and my office "prefers" us not to check our hotmail or gmail at work.
So that is why I did not post before the protest
Mon, 2009-04-06 12:02
#4
There are lots of other countries producing Kosher wines (some of them very fine, not the old-fashioned syrupy crap) for people who observe Passover. When I was in France, I was at a seder there and all the wine was French... and very good.
Does Ontario produce any kosher wine? It would be interesting for people who are trying to limit their food miles.
How much Israeli wine is sold is meaningless unless there is a comparative figure when there is not a boycott on.
Mon, 2009-04-06 12:39
#5
It certainly worked to raise attention given the Toronto Sun and UPI articles both of which make it clear that the protest was not Jews vs Arabs but pro-Palestinian Jews vs pro-Israel Jews and also make pro-Israel types look intolerant of dissent and thuggish.
Mon, 2009-04-06 13:10
#6
Who would buy Israeli wine in the first place. The stuff is so sweet it would only ever use it as an alternative to maple syrup on my pancakes!
I really don't like this being characterized as "pro-Palestinian Jews vs. Pro-Israel Jews". I think that the whole ought to be that one can be BOTH pro-Palestinian AND pro-Israel and take the position that it is for Israel's own good that they should end the occupation and be nicer to the Palestianians.
Mon, 2009-04-06 13:26
#7
I don't think the wine boycott is the most effective, at least not if you measure it in terms of actually reducing sales of Israeli wines which are predominatly only purchased by Israelis and Jews abroad who keep kosher. However, the article in the Toronto Sun was good in that it made an issue of divisions within the Jewish community (undercutting the "Jews are united behind Israel" line) and also made it pretty clear that Israel's supporters were intolerant of dissent to the point of being menacing so I think Sunday's action was actually a media success even if it doesn't hurt Israel directly in the cashbox. Also, being high profile, it may motivate others to boycott Israeli imports so there actually could be a negative economic impact even if not in wine sales per se.
Generally, other elements of the Israeli boycott have been more successful:
Motorola Sells Israel Bomb Division as National Boycott Campaign Advances
and
Mon, 2009-04-06 13:58
#8
Actually Dalton and Ella Valley merlots and Cab Sauvs are considered amongst the top 10 wines in EuropeWho would buy Israeli wine in the first place. The stuff is so sweet it would only ever use it as an alternative to maple syrup on my pancakes!
I really don't like this being characterized as "pro-Palestinian Jews vs. Pro-Israel Jews". I think that the whole ought to be that one can be BOTH pro-Palestinian AND pro-Israel and take the position that it is for Israel's own good that they should end the occupation and be nicer to the Palestianians.
Mon, 2009-04-06 15:09
#9
One of the list serves that I subscribe to had some photos from yesterday. It is actually quite funny becasue it seems that a motorbike gang showed up. Except in this case it was not the hells angels or the bandidos. No it was Yids on Wheels. This group of middle aged men trying to recapture their youth. They will not hurt you -- well actually they may give you a little nush and that could increase the cholesterol :-)
from the email i got
The link below is for some photos I took yesterday, notice the new trend for the regressive Jewish community -motorbikes and black leather. Once you open the link you need to press on the arrow on the top to start the slide show.
If you can't see the pictures in this email, click here to see it in a web browser:
http://www.kodakgallery.com/ShareLanding.action?c=5kcztk84.2c5piccc&x=0&y=-o1anyr&localeid=en_US
Mon, 2009-04-06 16:35
#10
Apparently, the one LCBO at Summerhill sold out of every single bottle of Israeli wine within a couple hours - something like 1500 bottles. Probably siginificantly more than if tehre hadn't been an organzied boycott.
Mon, 2009-04-06 16:37
#11
Oh, and for the people comenting on teh quality of Israeli wine, the stuff you get in Toronto is terrible. To drink actual good Israeli wine, you need to go to Israel or to very Jewish areas. The Kosher wine you buy at the LCBO has all been boiled, which destroys the taste.
Mon, 2009-04-06 17:14
#12
Can someone clarify how wine could ever be UNkosher in the first place? There is no pork or seafood in wine and no meat and dairy are combined - so isn't a glass of wine ipso-facto just as kosher as an apple picked from a tree?
Mon, 2009-04-06 17:26
#13
No. Obviously, I am not a rabbi or an expert on Jewish law but I will do my best here. While wine is not meat or dairy, it takes on a special status because it has been used in religious rituals by Jews as well as people of other religions. Therefore, even though it is a beverage, it takes on a different status than Coke or apple juice or beer, etc. The basic rule for wine is that from the time it becomes wine, it can only be handled by Jews - in everything from the bottling to pouring. If a non-Jew touches it, it immediately becomes non-kosher. Now, the way to coutner this is to boil the wine. If the wine is boiled, it can be handled by non-Jews and remain kosher...however, it also makes the wine taste like shit. Therefore, the wine you get at places like the LCBO are all "mevushal" - tehy've been boiled and are not very good. To get good kosher wine, you either need to go to Israel - and some of it IS really quite good - or you need wine that has been handled entirely by Jews. For example, my cousin went to law school in New York and had a part-time job working for a kosher catering company. He had to prove that he was Jewish according to orthodox Jewish law and his job was to pour wine for all of the guests. Since a Jew was pouring it, it remained kosher.
Mon, 2009-04-06 17:32
#14
Cueball
Therefore, even though it is a beverage, it takes on a different status than Coke or apple juice or beer, etc. The basic rule for wine is that from the time it becomes wine, it can only be handled by Jews - in everything from the bottling to pouring. If a non-Jew touches it, it immediately becomes non-kosher.
Never heard that before. In fact, I think you are wrong.
Mon, 2009-04-06 17:34
#15
Here's what came up on the first Google hit I got:
All the equipment, tools and winemaking storage facilities must be kosher. During the harvest, only Sabbath observant male Jews are allowed to work on the production of the wines. Since most of the experienced winemakers in Israel are not observant, this means that they can't touch the wine or the equipment, during the winemaking process.
During the production of kosher wine, no animal products may be used. Gelatin or egg whites are sometimes used by non-kosher wine makers, to clarify the wine, while kosher wine makers use a clay material, called bentonite, which pulls suspended particles to the bottom of the barrel.
For wine to be kosher one percent of the wine must be discarded, a symbolic remnant of the 10% tithe, paid to the Temple in Jerusalem in days gone by. Additionally, barrels must be cleaned three times.
There are really two levels of kosher wine. The first includes the restrictions outlined above, while the second, known as "mevushal" utilizes an additional process. This is important since Kashrut law stipulates that in order for a wine to retain its 'kosherness' once opened and poured by a non-Jew, (such as a waiter, for instance) the wine must be "mevushal."
Bringing the liquid to a boiling point makes this type of wine, causing air bubbles to be brought to the surface and the loss of some wine, due to evaporation. A wine that is produced in this manner retains its religious purity, regardless of who opens or pours it. A study at the University of California at Davis, has proven that it is not possible to consistently taste the difference between non- mevushal and mevushal wine.
Mon, 2009-04-06 18:04
#16
Can there possibly be anything as ridiculous as religious dietary laws??? I mean this crap about wine only being "kosher" if its only ever been handled by Jews is every bit as absurd as the dietary laws of Hindus. If you're a Brahmin and you eat something that might have been touched by someone of a lower caste - you need to undergo an elaborate three day "cleansing ritual". I'm sure that the rules around "halal" for Muslims are equally stupid.
How can anyone actually believe in religions that have such preposterous beliefs.
Mon, 2009-04-06 18:17
#17
remind
Amazing.
Mon, 2009-04-06 18:22
#18
Can someone clarify how wine could ever be UNkosher in the first place? There is no pork or seafood in wine and no meat and dairy are combined - so isn't a glass of wine ipso-facto just as kosher as an apple picked from a tree?
No, some of the fining agents in wine such as gelatin, isinglass or casein are made from dairy or meat products. Also, for a wine to be kosher only sabbath-keeping Jews can be involved in the entire process from harvesting through to the bottling. And to be kosher for passover a wine can't have come into contact with any grain, bread or dough.
And, as Star Spangled points out, a percentage of the wine has to be symbolically offered to God which leads me to wonder which of God's actions over the years can be attributed to having a bit too much of the sauce?
Mon, 2009-04-06 18:23
#19
Can there possibly be anything as ridiculous as religious dietary laws??? I mean this crap about wine only being "kosher" if its only ever been handled by Jews is every bit as absurd as the dietary laws of Hindus. If you're a Brahmin and you eat something that might have been touched by someone of a lower caste - you need to undergo an elaborate three day "cleansing ritual". I'm sure that the rules around "halal" for Muslims are equally stupid.
How can anyone actually believe in religions that have such preposterous beliefs.
Some of the dietary laws make sense in a desert climate thousands of years before the invention of refrigeration. For instance, I understand pork is more likely to go bad so it makes sense for people living in the middle east to avoid it. Also, as we now know, blood can carry many diseases so kosher and halal requirements that purge all blood from meat (using salt) also make sense. Other requirements for not only kosher but halal and other dietary laws are designed, I think, to keep people from sharing a meal with someone from another religion or tribe or at least make such intermingling uncommon. This reduces the chances of intermarriage by reducing social contact with outsiders and it also restricts the ability to be exposed to other ideas.
Mon, 2009-04-06 18:25
#20
Stockholm, the laws with regards to kosher wine are basically an anachronism - a throwback to a time where the laws may have made sense but are no longer really relevant but people still follow them either out of a sense of tradition or out of a refusal to try to challenge things that are considered holy laws. The laws may ahve once made sense. For example, Jews didn't want to drink wine that may have been used in other people's religious rituals. It would have rendered it unfit. Another reason is that at a time when Jews were being constantly persecuted, keeping food and drink production within the community ensured that enemies couldn't interfere with it and try to poison the Jews. Obviosuly, not a concern today but people cling to it.
Personally, I'm a proponent of taking teh meaningful aspects of religious laws (and there ARE some dietary laws I find meaningful even if I don't really follow them) and adopting them to modern realities. For example, I really like the Jewish notion of The Sabbath - of having a day of rest. Now that I'm a husband and father, the notion of family time has become very important and I like the idea of having a day to rest, enjoy a good meal, spend quality time together. But the people who follow this literally, I can't get behind. For example, there's a literal rule that says you cant light a fire on the sabbath. Well, in Moses' time, lighting a fire was a huge production...rubbing sticks tgether and all that. Today, lighting a fire is as easy as flicking a switch, so the idea of avoiding fire lighting in order to avoid arduous labour doesn't really have a lot of meaning to me.
Mon, 2009-04-06 20:03
#21
I follow pretty strict religious guidelines when I make "Garbage Pail Ale" in my basement.
Nobody but me must come in contact with anything involved in the brewing process. The resulting product is thus Q'osher.
Mon, 2009-04-06 21:11
#22
Well, you should join us in the beer and babbling thread then, with a bottle of it!
Maybe you should all bring a glass of wine, kosher or non-kosher, to the party and hang out a bit. Think of it like wrestlers who go after each other in the ring and then go out for a beer afterwards. :)
Mon, 2009-04-06 23:22
#23
The "Boycott Israel" supermarket protest in France could work whereas one in Canada would not have much effect. There are very few Israeli products in our stores unless one goes to a Jewish neighbourhood in Toronto or Montreal. A type of boycott that might work in Canada is a secondary boycott where people boycott goods and services from non-Israeli companies that do extensive business in Israel.
Note: we must not confuse kosher with Israeli. I always enjoy looking for the "Special K" symbol that makes a product kosher. I know that there are other kosher designations out there also. There's Coca-Cola that's kosher. I just can't find Kosher-Kola.
Mon, 2009-04-06 23:44
#24
The "Boycott Israel" supermarket protest in France could work whereas one in Canada would not have much effect.
You might be correct. I quit shopping at Auchan after I saw how many Israeli products they sold. I don't know who I would boycott here.
Note: we must not confuse kosher with Israeli.
Why would we do that?
Mon, 2009-04-06 23:58
#25
If only people had thought about the power of boycotts when Bush was in power - we could have simply had a boycott of any and all American products and we would have brought the US to its knees!
Tue, 2009-04-07 00:09
#26
Lots of us were boycotting US products, where possible. A problem with boycotting the US is that their economy and ours is so mixed together. If one wanted to be patriotic and buy socks at the Hudson's Bay Co. store, for example, one would still be buying from a US-based retailer.
Tue, 2009-04-07 08:15
#27
Here is NION's video of the event. Unfortunately the two assaults that occured as well as some of the more abusive comments were not captured by the videographer.
Tue, 2009-04-07 12:48
#28
Tue, 2009-04-07 12:55
#29
There's Coca-Cola that's kosher. I just can't find Kosher-Kola.
Actually, ALL Coca-Cola is kosher but as a public service announcement, I'll let everyone know that there is special edition coke that is kosher for Passover and is WAY better than normal coke. The original recipe used cane sugar for sweetening but they alter switched to corn syrup. Corn syrup is not kosher (couldn't tell you why exactly and I also think that Sephardic jews WILL eat it while Ashkenazis won't). So for Passover, they go back to the original recipe. Look for bottles amrked kosher for passover and you are in for a treat.
Tue, 2009-04-07 16:18
#30
The protestors who opposed the sale of the Israeli/kosher wine looked like a bunch of disgruntled homeless people. I think it's very convenient that akaMycroft's claim that "TWO ASSAULTS THAT OCCURED" (against the homeless protestors) were not captured my the videographer. How convenient...
The boycott-protestors could not even articulate a cohesive sentence when questioned. They wasted their time at the LCBO when they could have been out looking for a low-rental housing apartment to rent.
Tue, 2009-04-07 16:25
#31
Hey Katie911, guess what? On babble, we don't use "homeless people" as an insult - we think it's degrading and classist and rude. I realize that it might be difficult to muster some sensitivity around such issues, but it's right there in the babble policy statement you agreed to when you signed up.
Tue, 2009-04-07 16:40
#32
Cueball
Weren't a lot of Israel's founding fathers homeless people?
Tue, 2009-04-07 16:43
#33
... "Garbage Pail Ale"
Nobody but me must come in contact with anything involved in the brewing process. The resulting product is thus Q'osher.
beautiful...
Tue, 2009-04-07 16:48
#34
Hi Michelle - I was using the term "homeless people"* as an adjective to help visually describe the protesters who attended on Sunday. As far as I can tell that's not a violation of the babble policy, but then again, you would probably know better seeing as I can picture how wide your a** is from sitting on your computer all day, eating bonbons in your bachelor apartment commenting on blogs all day. Go get some exercize and fresh air.
*Homeless people - if you have a laptop and you're reading this right now - I apologize for equating you with loser protestors who attended the LCBO on Sunday.
Tue, 2009-04-07 16:59
#35
Cueball
Hi Michelle - I was using the term "homeless people"* as an adjective to help visually describe the protesters who attended on Sunday. As far as I can tell that's not a violation of the babble policy, but then again, you would probably know better seeing as I can picture how wide your a** is from sitting on your computer all day, eating bonbons in your bachelor apartment commenting on blogs all day. Go get some exercize and fresh air.
*Homeless people - if you have a laptop and you're reading this right now - I apologize for equating you with loser protestors who attended the LCBO on Sunday.
Are you 12?
Tue, 2009-04-07 17:01
#36
So let me guess Katie, you're trying to convince us of the value of your argument through charm and refinement? If your career truly is as a "hostess" as your bio claims then you're going to have to learn some manners if you want to be successful.
Tue, 2009-04-07 17:06
#37
remind
Just another small dead animal cue.
Tue, 2009-04-07 17:09
#38
That's what I suspected too, remind. Anyhow, show's over, folks.
Tue, 2009-04-07 17:20
#39
Damn! Race, class AND religion all in the same awesome post.
If you think the boycotters look like homeless people, you should see the residents of Gaza. More than 200,000 of them ARE are homeless since Israel's latest war crimes.
Fucking airhead.
Tue, 2009-04-07 17:35
#40
Oh, is "hostess" a euphemism for "unemployed and living off family money?"
Tue, 2009-04-07 19:00
#41
There's Coca-Cola that's kosher. I just can't find Kosher-Kola.
Actually, ALL Coca-Cola is kosher but as a public service announcement, I'll let everyone know that there is special edition coke that is kosher for Passover and is WAY better than normal coke.
Can anyone find any info on whether Philip Roth ever joined a wine tasting club, or if he took the Pepsi Challenge?
Tue, 2009-04-07 19:12
#42
Kate911 your posts here have been offensive and degrading. Perhaps you may want to consider another place to park your ignorance.
Tue, 2009-04-07 22:03
#43
AKA I did not hear about the assaults. What happened? any injuries?
Also I echo JPJ's comments about Yids on Wheels the NION vid that makes reference to bikers is actually very funny. The yids are no more than aging doctors and lawyers with the odd accountant. They had to get permission from spouses, mothers and daughters to even go for a ride.
To say bikers came to the protest is very funny.
Tue, 2009-04-07 22:35
#44
Lard Tunderin Jeezus
How humourless do you have to be not to notice that NION was making fun of these wannabe bikers?
Tue, 2009-04-07 22:59
#45
Lard Tunderin Jeezus
On the other hand, I was dumbfounded when watching the clip by the dancing and singing in celebration of Israel's campaign of ethnic cleansing and apartheid - primarily by women, it seemed.
Wed, 2009-04-08 09:37
#46
AKA I did not hear about the assaults. What happened? any injuries?
I just got this in my email:
PRESS RELEASE: NION statement on the Israeli Wine Boycott picket of April 5
At 1:00 On Sunday April 5, about twenty members and supporters of NION: Not in Our Name: Jewish Voices Opposing Zionism, held a peaceful sidewalk picket outside of the Summerhill/Yonge LCBO, asking customers this Passover to boycott Israeli wines. The title of the 500 brochures that they handed out was "Apartheid Isn't Kosher", suggesting that support for the Palestinian struggle can be expressed by boycotting the following Israeli wines: Dalton, Margalit, Barkan, Carmel, and Gush Etzion, urging people to make their Passover apartheid free by purchasing Kosher wine from countries other than Israel.
More than two hundred pro-Israel counter-demonstrators organized to disrupt the picket, including B'nai Brith, the Jewish Defense League (JDL), (with leatherjacketed JDL on motorcycles), and other organizations in support of Israel's wars and apartheid. The counter-demonstrators became increasingly abusive and unruly, threatening, and starting to be, violent. There are incident reports filed with the police. The police could not control the counter-demonstrators, who were blocking the sidewalk, pushing and hurling abuse and threats. The non-violent boycott picketers left quietly at 2:00, having made their point, delivering the news of the wine boycott, and representing the growing number of Canadian Jewish voices in support of Palestine, and the boycott of Israeli goods.
The Brochure: "Make Your Passover Apartheid Free"
can be downloaded from NION's website:
Not in Our Name (NION): Jewish Voices Opposing Zionism
Wed, 2009-04-08 11:03
#47
How humourless do you have to be not to notice that NION was making fun of these wannabe bikers?
well according to the release that AKA just posted about the boycott,
More than two hundred pro-Israel counter-demonstrators organized to disrupt the picket, including B'nai Brith, the Jewish Defense League (JDL), (with leatherjacketed JDL on motorcycles), and other organizations in support of Israel's wars and apartheid.
so i guess not all find it as funny as you do.
Wed, 2009-04-08 12:38
#48
Miles, if the nice little JDL demo was so warm, friendly and non-threatening why did the police advise the NION people to leave for their own safety?
Wed, 2009-04-08 15:14
#49
aka i was commenting on the bikers not the safety that is why i asked about the assaults.
to say that yids on wheels are a threat is a farce.
real threats are disgusting and those who assaulted anyone should be charged.
Wed, 2009-04-08 15:17
#50
now if YOW acted like "real bikers" then that will be a first
cops never fear yids on wheels. or think that they will provide any damage. to say they are JDL is just too funny
Wed, 2009-04-08 16:43
#51
aka i was commenting on the bikers not the safety that is why i asked about the assaults.
I'm commenting on both. Do you honestly not think the purpose of coming to this event as bikers was to intimidate the NION protesters?
And Miles, hate to break the news to you but there actually ARE bikers in the Canadian JDL and they usually come out to JDL events and demos. I would be surprised if they gave this one a pass given that it was called by the JDL and all.