School shopping in Ontario; the sequel

It's Me D wrote:

 

Bob Marley came from the Caribbean.

Check it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEQXvsQJVnY

Buffalo soldier, dreadlock rasta:
There was a buffalo soldier in the heart of america,
Stolen from africa, brought to america,
Fighting on arrival, fighting for survival.

I mean it, when I analyze the stench -
To me it makes a lot of sense:
How the dreadlock rasta was the buffalo soldier,
And he was taken from africa, brought to america,
Fighting on arrival, fighting for survival.

Said he was a buffalo soldier, dreadlock rasta -
Buffalo soldier in the heart of america.

If you know your history,
Then you would know where you coming from,
Then you wouldnt have to ask me,
Who the eck do I think I am.

Im just a buffalo soldier in the heart of america,
Stolen from africa, brought to america,
Said he was fighting on arrival, fighting for survival;
Said he was a buffalo soldier win the war for america.

Dreadie, woy yoy yoy, woy yoy-yoy yoy,
Woy yoy yoy yoy, yoy yoy-yoy yoy!
Woy yoy yoy, woy yoy-yoy yoy,
Woy yoy yoy yoy, yoy yoy-yoy yoy!
Buffalo soldier troddin through the land, wo-ho-ooh!
Said he wanna ran, then you wanna hand,
Troddin through the land, yea-hea, yea-ea.

Said he was a buffalo soldier win the war for america;
Buffalo soldier, dreadlock rasta,
Fighting on arrival, fighting for survival;
Driven from the mainland to the heart of the caribbean.

Singing, woy yoy yoy, woy yoy-yoy yoy,
Woy yoy yoy yoy, yoy yoy-yoy yoy!
Woy yoy yoy, woy yoy-yoy yoy,
Woy yoy yoy yoy, yoy yoy-yoy yoy!

Troddin through san juan in the arms of america;
Troddin through jamaica, a buffalo soldier# -
Fighting on arrival, fighting for survival:
Buffalo soldier, dreadlock rasta.

Woy yoy yoy, woy yoy-yoy yoy,
Woy yoy yoy yoy, yoy yoy-yoy yoy!
Woy yoy yoy, woy yoy-yoy yoy,
Woy yoy yoy yoy, yoy yoy-yoy yoy! /fadeout/

Driven from the mainland to the heart of the caribbean.

[color=red][url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zTxUxFjLB0&feature=related]Get Up! Stand Up![/url][/color]

My playlist for tonight. 

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6U-TGahwvs&NR=1]Stir it Up![/url]

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSg1AxVoG1I&feature=related]Concrete Jungle[/url]

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGep_Rl7y3g&feature=related]Bob in '76 with Rat Race[/url]

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbuhKR8YXlk&feature=related]Erykah Badu - On an On[/url]

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v98BJMDDfFY&feature=related]Cheer Up[/url]

Rexdale_Punjabi: Please forgive me.  In attempting to reply to your excellent posting, I accidentally deleted it.  I have tried to reproduce it below, and I hope it is reasonably accurate:

Rexdale_Punjabi Wrote:

Quote:

Oh give me a break, the Caribbean is not North America. It is The Caribbean and has its own tectonic plate even, as Its me d indicated. It is as much a part of North America as New Zealand is part of Austrailia, and that is not at all. Central America is not even considered to be a part of North America andit shares a plate. 

edit- MakwaI never claimed I was afro-caribbean. I stated im from East Africa. The dif is if I claimed I was west african, n from the caribbean it would be false I stated my ancestry. Im not west african Im east. That aint a claim I aint gonna post my history n shit on this I posted a lil bit, it made remid look stupid and she continues to try and argue and has now changed the subject to south asians not even in north america but USA n Canada. That topic came up cuz I said we gonna take bacc what ours and remind obv cant think outside of canada and usa. The fact that you use those 2 countries instead of w.e name ur ppl had for them shows u just briainwashed, and u like whoopi goldberg, or some other sellout on tv.

edit- And no Bookish Agrarian it doesnt carry hurt for you. Up till a couple days ago it did for me cops came up said all u niggers get against a wall. Searched us n shit Im like yo wtf is this u aint found shit, we aint done shit, n u aint got no right to do this. Muthafucca takes his baton smashes it into my chin. That hurt cuz. Not u saying that u hurt because you seen ur friend called that. I dont say nigger str8 up. Fucc that word we stopped usin it.

edit- Remind as for the slavery part there a lot more cases which dont include the new world ( forgot the traditional names) of ppl from east africa bein enslaved gypsies aka roma is one of them. All u did was change the argument because ur claim that my statement is false got turned on its head. Now u on a next thing.

edit- sigh Remind ur first nations and yet u hold a strong belief that the british would really really let the indentured servants esp the regular ones go free afterwards. The sellout gandhi was against this shit callin it slavery and you trust their documents, remember all the european powers liked to do shit and then morally clear their name afterwards. Shit, u like ignorant white ppl we tellin you something but you like NOPE UR OPRESSOR DID NOT WRITE IT DOWN DO IT COULDNT BE TRUE.

edit- Final thing see Africa is bigger then west africa. Blacc is associated w/ West africa because to north america most of the african slaves were west african. Im not claiming im african. Im stataing it if I was gonna try and pretend to be afro-carib like jamaican or some shit why would my name include my language/tribal&ethinic group? This aint a debate yall can win I know my history and real talks I dont give a fucc what ppl on this think why? Yall can ban me, shut down my computer, w.e dont change my ancestry and culture do it? See I dont know how this whole you can be sum1 else on the internet thing works I dont see the point in trying. Im from the Rex, Im blacc that my race, My 1st language is punjabi, my ethnicity is also Punjabi. Im done arguing cuz there was noting to argue about I was trying to shed light on something that the person who I was talking to has obv complelty shut their mind to, and can't look past 2 countries.

India is not even the name given to it by us and largely because of rebels controlling it 75% of what u see on the map as india is not under government control. We takin this shit bacc. All india is, is the same thing some latin american countries became a couple decades ago right-wing puppet states of america where there was warfare, tho rarely reported, mass poverty which very evident, and bein played against other countries in the region for american profit. All it is, for all the shit they talk about devolopment most of the money has gone into the hands of a few. Just because a corporation comes and adds lets say 10billion to the economy. Do you think the worker gettin paid literally .50 cents a day for adults gives a shit do you think it affects him? Most ppl still don't know where the next meal is coming from str88 up. And I shown b4 how the farmers now in debt for the huge part and basically slaves of GMO seed corps. India, by and large in the hearts and minds of ppl and in a reality tip if you lookin at gov control of regions does not exist. Not gonna say the traditional names on this tho and there a lot think about how many languages and dialects there are.[/quote]

My reply to you was to have been:

Makwa Wrote:

Quote:

My mistake, I'm afraid I missed that statement.  I must have misconstrued something else said by someone, or simply made it up in my head, my apologies.  I stand corrected.  When I refer to Canada and the USA/Mexico etc, I will typically refer to Turtle Island, but not always.  I have been taught by my elders that the aboriginal terms used for Asia and Africa are the medicine wheel colours for east and south, i.e. the yellow lands and the black lands, although I don't imagine this would be widely known.  It is true that I was raised in the Canadian Educational system, and have only a little traiditional knowledge - partly because of the racist practices of the state which purposefully seperated me from my people when I was quite young.  Nonetheless, it does remind me to be more diligent in seeking out wisdom from my elders now.

Again, my apologiies for messing up a detailed and thoughtful post.

Makwa wrote:

Rexdale_Punjabi: Please forgive me.  In attempting to reply to your excellent posting, I accidentally deleted it.  I have tried to reproduce it below, and I hope it is reasonably accurate:

Rexdale_Punjabi Wrote:

Quote:

Oh give me a break, the Caribbean is not North America. It is The Caribbean and has its own tectonic plate even, as Its me d indicated. It is as much a part of North America as New Zealand is part of Austrailia, and that is not at all. Central America is not even considered to be a part of North America andit shares a plate. 

fucc plates do you realize most of the continents today dont go by that it all politics. Guyana in the carib even tho it on mainland south america. Europe for the most part if attached to the eurasian plate n yet it a "dif" continent.

edit- MakwaI never claimed I was afro-caribbean. I stated im from East Africa. The dif is if I claimed I was west african, n from the caribbean it would be false I stated my ancestry. Im not west african Im east. That aint a claim I aint gonna post my history n shit on this I posted a lil bit, it made remid look stupid and she continues to try and argue and has now changed the subject to south asians not even in north america but USA n Canada. That topic came up cuz I said we gonna take bacc what ours and remind obv cant think outside of canada and usa. The fact that you use those 2 countries instead of w.e name ur ppl had for them shows u just briainwashed, and u like whoopi goldberg, or some other sellout on tv.

edit- And no Bookish Agrarian it doesnt carry hurt for you. Up till a couple days ago it did for me cops came up said all u niggers get against a wall. Searched us n shit Im like yo wtf is this u aint found shit, we aint done shit, n u aint got no right to do this. Muthafucca takes his baton smashes it into my chin. That hurt cuz. Not u saying that u hurt because you seen ur friend called that. I dont say nigger str8 up. Fucc that word we stopped usin it.

edit- Remind as for the slavery part there a lot more cases which dont include the "new" world ( forgot the traditional names) of ppl from east africa bein enslaved gypsies aka roma is one of them. All u did was change the argument because ur claim that my statement is false got turned on its head. Now u on a next thing.

edit- sigh Remind ur first nations and yet u hold a strong belief that the british would really really let the indentured servants esp the regular ones go free afterwards. The sellout gandhi was against this shit callin it slavery and you trust their documents, remember all the european powers liked to do shit and then morally clear their name afterwards. Shit, u like ignorant white ppl we tellin you something but you like NOPE UR OPRESSOR DID NOT WRITE IT DOWN DO IT COULDNT BE TRUE.

edit- Final thing see Africa is bigger then west africa. Blacc is associated w/ West africa because to north america most of the african slaves were west african. Im not claiming im african. Im stataing it if I was gonna try and pretend to be afro-carib like jamaican or some shit why would my name include my language/tribal&ethinic group? This aint a debate yall can win I know my history and real talks I dont give a fucc what ppl on this think why? Yall can ban me, shut down my computer, w.e dont change my ancestry and culture do it? See I dont know how this whole you can be sum1 else on the internet thing works I dont see the point in trying. Im from the Rex, Im blacc that my race, My 1st language is punjabi, my ethnicity is also Punjabi. Im done arguing cuz there was noting to argue about I was trying to shed light on something that the person who I was talking to has obv complelty shut their mind to, and can't look past 2 countries.

India is not even the name given to it by us and largely because of rebels controlling it 75% of what u see on the map as "india" is not under government control. We takin this shit bacc. All "india" is, is the same thing some latin american countries became a couple decades ago right-wing puppet states of america where there was warfare, tho rarely reported, mass poverty which very evident, and bein played against other countries in the region for american profit. All it is, for all the shit they talk about devolopment most of the money has gone into the hands of a few. Just because a corporation comes and "adds" lets say 10billion to the economy. Do you think the worker gettin paid literally .50 cents a day for adults gives a shit do you think it affects him? Most ppl still don't know where the next meal is coming from str88 up. And I shown b4 how the farmers now in debt for the huge part and basically slaves of GMO seed corps. India, by and large in the hearts and minds of ppl and in a reality tip if you lookin at gov control of regions does not exist. Not gonna say the traditional names on this tho and there a lot think about how many languages and dialects there are.

My reply to you was to have been:

Makwa Wrote:

Quote:

My mistake, I'm afraid I missed that statement.  I must have misconstrued something else said by someone, or simply made it up in my head, my apologies.  I stand corrected.  When I refer to Canada and the USA/Mexico etc, I will typically refer to Turtle Island, but not always.  I have been taught by my elders that the aboriginal terms used for Asia and Africa are the medicine wheel colours for east and south, i.e. the yellow lands and the black lands, although I don't imagine this would be widely known.  It is true that I was raised in the Canadian Educational system, and have only a little traiditional knowledge - partly because of the racist practices of the state which purposefully seperated me from my people when I was quite young.  Nonetheless, it does remind me to be more diligent in seeking out wisdom from my elders now.

Again, my apologiies for messing up a detailed and thoughtful post.

[/quote]

ye but realize that there u go the yellow lands and the blacc lands. There native legends of a white eagle comin n fuccin up a red eagle and a blacc eagle comin n freein it n sendin the white eagle bacc to the caves. Many of the natives knew about it

http://www.youtube.com/user/RevolutionaryINK

checc that channel out explains the ancient south n central americans and where that stuff comes from. Realize that up till the arab invasions the mid east and what you would call south asia were and still are a part of africa. The mid east has largely been taken over by arabs but in east africa's case it's only the very north part such as southern afganistan and pakistan is mixed. The modern state of india is a african state. Southeast Asians for the most part are a mix between the negrito tribes, east africans, and east asians more or less of each depending on area and they look it. Checc out the channel btw and go to the untold history

The recent (by which I mean over the last year) challenges to the way the site thinks about race and racism, have been one of the most important and interesting developments on the site. People have been asking if Rabble is DED, well, it has had some new life recently. I miss some of the old voices, like Skdadl, but these new directions are very good.

Forward:

Yeah. Its about institutionalized racism that people don't seem to recognize when they are not the target of it.

Maysie wrote:

I'm late to the party, but I need to reiterate Makwa's and RevolutionPlease's points of the absolute appalling rudeness to attack Rexdale Punjabi for his use of language, diction and grammar, as well as his use of a word that is clearly empowering for him. 

And the worst of all, policing his ethnicity and his background? What The Fuck? There are *numerous* self-identified white babblers who have chosen handles that in my hugely humble opinion are icky examples of cultural appropriation by white folks. 

So, babble, open to all, hm?

I respect remind, It's Me D and Bookish very much. I think that Rexdale brings a very important perspective that nobody else currently on babble does. Yes, he needs to be challenged on sexist language sometimes, and I have to say, all recent posts reflect that he's taken time to change this part of his posting, which is quite impressive given how many fights we have amongst ourselves with very slow learning curves indeed.

MY last point is about racism, and how much has changed in 50-60 years. No, there aren't illegal public lynchings anymore. But there are illegal searches and intimidation, such as Rexdale described, as well as illegal beatings and killings by the cops of young Black and FN men. All the time, every day. I would say the modality has changed and the form has changed, not the intent, not the lived reality, and, sadly, not the public perception.

yee n about the ethnicity thing remind can keep arguing ill eventually snap there'll be 1/2 a post of links and sources already remind is looking like an idiot from the lil bit of info that I posted just dont fee like finding everything agen cuz alot of the stuff on my comp got deleted cuz it was broken and I had to reformat

edit- Unionist it aint off-topic because this is part of a bigger problem as cueball just said and it being discussed

Unionist wrote:

Maysie wrote:

I'm late to the party, but I need to reiterate Makwa's and RevolutionPlease's points of the absolute appalling rudeness to attack Rexdale Punjabi for his use of language, diction and grammar, as well as his use of a word that is clearly empowering for him.

Hi, Maysie. The last time anyone mentioned issue of "school shopping" in this thread, and the racist and classist nature of it, was in [b]post #8[/b]. No, that is not a typo. If you think the thread should be renamed and moved elsewhere, please do so or maybe ask one of the other mods. I'll email the mods in the hope that someone cares.

By the way, since we're chatting off topic, I'd still appreciate an answer to [url=http://rabble.ca/comment/1006677/Maysie-wrote-Okay-Unionist][color=red]a question I asked you yesterday[/color][/url]. Cya later.

 

Perhaps mods should be splitting threads. That said, I don't see why all the fuss about people framing their stands, and refraiming the issue on that basis, especially when those stands seemed to have touched a gew nerves. Some things needed more thorough explanation, in particular the use of words. It's all good. I think.

About that other thing, well I see your point, but I think the situation should be allowed to evolve a little more. If we were to use the standard you want applied there to other issues of apparent latent prejudice, and deemed it to be express and deliberate prejudice, as opposed to ignorance, then we would have far fewer board members; for example the repeated attacks upon Rex_p's use of language, could be construed to have latent bias, if not overt. But yeah, I wonder where that is going to end up, you are right about that.

Rexdale wrote:

The modern state of india is a african state.

Interesting you should say this, its the same perspective I got from an elderly Punjabi fellow I once knew; in his case, prior to coming to Canada, he had also lived for a long while in Ethiopia.

Maysie wrote:

I respect remind, It's Me D and Bookish very much. I think that Rexdale brings a very important perspective that nobody else currently on babble does. Yes, he needs to be challenged on sexist language sometimes, and I have to say, all recent posts reflect that he's taken time to change this part of his posting, which is quite impressive given how many fights we have amongst ourselves with very slow learning curves indeed.

Thanks for the respect Maysie; I just wanted to point out that I have been consistent in my appreciation for Rexdale's posts and defence of his self-expression since he joinned Babble... so I think you put my name down on the wrong side of the table.

Maysie wrote:

I'm late to the party, but I need to reiterate Makwa's and RevolutionPlease's points of the absolute appalling rudeness to attack Rexdale Punjabi for his use of language, diction and grammar, as well as his use of a word that is clearly empowering for him. 

And the worst of all, policing his ethnicity and his background? What The Fuck? There are *numerous* self-identified white babblers who have chosen handles that in my hugely humble opinion are icky examples of cultural appropriation by white folks. 

So, babble, open to all, hm?

I respect remind, It's Me D and Bookish very much. I think that Rexdale brings a very important perspective that nobody else currently on babble does. Yes, he needs to be challenged on sexist language sometimes, and I have to say, all recent posts reflect that he's taken time to change this part of his posting, which is quite impressive given how many fights we have amongst ourselves with very slow learning curves indeed.

MY last point is about racism, and how much has changed in 50-60 years. No, there aren't illegal public lynchings anymore. But there are illegal searches and intimidation, such as Rexdale described, as well as illegal beatings and killings by the cops of young Black and FN men. All the time, every day. I would say the modality has changed and the form has changed, not the intent, not the lived reality, and, sadly, not the public perception.

With respect Maysie, and you know it is alot of respect on my part, I don't think this is very fair.

My concerns about the posting style of Rexdale was legitimate.  I do find it hard to follow.  The fact that I try suggests there is something of value in them to me because I continue to make the attempt.  However, instead of whinning I made a simple and positive suggestion to make it easier for some of us with older eyes to read.  I hardly think that is attacking anything.

As well, my point all along is has been that sometimes understanding why some people might find certain terms offensive may lead one to dial back a bit out of respect for others.  I find the word 'fuck' empowering at times.  However, I don't go into a nursing home and drop the 'f' bomb whenever the mood strikes me.  There is a time and place to use power words, it seems to me that repetitave use in this thread when some objected is not the place.  That isn't taking anything away from anyone.  It is a simple request for manners.

And of course things are not much better.  However, they are better, if only very slightly.  Maybe it is only because some folks are better at hiding their internalized racism.  But I still refuse to think we are not in a tiny bit better place when it wouldn't even occur to my children and their friends to think in that way.  That does not denegrate the very real reality of what people face in their daily lives, or the subtle and overt racism and violence experienced.  It is a simple matter of hope for the future.

I expect we don't disagree all that much. 

I'm just more of a glass is half-full kind of person.  I recognize that things are still awful.  I just live in hope.  If I didn't I couldn't be a farmer.  Given all the crap you have to fight against to farm - everything from corporate power to the weather - if you weren't a hopeless optimist you would just walk away muttering to yourself.  Given that -I tend to look for the silver lining no matter how faint and tarnished it might be.

Besides today we have two beautiful little calves just born learning to stand up in the sun outside my office window.  It is hard to be pessimistic watching that.

Especially old ones.

Gee, it's a good thing we had this discussion, because now we know a lot more about the relationship between data availability, school choice, socio-economic factors and educational outcomes.

Seriously, people: just what the hell are you up to?

Stephen Gordon wrote:

Gee, it's a good thing we had this discussion, because now we know a lot more about the relationship between data availability, school choice, socio-economic factors and educational outcomes.

The thing is, those data are already publicly available: it's census data. And making it hard to obtain makes it easier for bad schools hide behind "Well, what do you expect? It's a poor neighbourhood! It's your fault for being poor! Suck it up!"

If parents could reply "Bullshit! The district next door (or wherever) has the same makeup as this one, and their schools do much better", then something positive could happen.

Is it sufficient reason to suppress publicly-available data? Should StatsCan stop asking for socio-economic information? Should the existing data be erased? Should those who have seen it be sworn to silence?

Why?

To save some incompetent school administrators from embarassment?

Edit