Offensive songs by artists you love

Papal Bull wrote:

Yeah, listening to Rush's lyrics is a lot like reading Ayn Rand for Canadians.

Rush's members have been quite open about being disciples of Ayn Rand.

Well geez, if we're going to go there, how about Miss Otis Regrets or Frankie and Johnny?

This isn't offensive, but another tune I like even though it's about an unpleasant subject:

Quote:

Police officer, how can it be?
You can 'rest everybody but cruel Stack O' Lee
That bad man, oh, cruel Stack O' Lee 

Billy de Lyon told Stack O' Lee, "Please don't take my life,
I got two little babies, and a darlin' lovin' wife"
That bad man, oh, cruel Stack O' Lee

"What I care about you little babies, your darlin' lovin' wife?
You done stole my Stetson hat, I'm bound to take your life"
That bad man, cruel Stack O' Lee

...with the forty-four
When I spied Billy de Lyon, he was lyin' down on the floor
That bad man, oh cruel Stack O' Lee
"Gentleman's of the jury, what do you think of that?
Stack O' Lee killed Billy de Lyon about a five-dollar Stetson hat"
That bad man, oh, cruel Stack O' Lee

And all they gathered, hands way up high,
at twelve o'clock they killed him, they's all glad to see him die
That bad man, oh, cruel Stack O' Lee

Mississippi John Hurt 1928

Well said. I was listening to California Dreamin' a few days ago and I winced at that classic "If I didn't tell her, I could leave today" line. Wannabe cowardice... how low can you go?

"If I Were A Carpenter" is also problematic.  On one level, it's got an antimaterialist "I want to live as a traveling artisan, surviving on the purity of my own craftsmanship" message, but GAWWWD it's sexist.  It's like Tim Hardin wasn't looking so much for a wife as an unpaid shop assistant.  I've been trying to create a non-male supremacist set of alternative lyrics for it.

Scott Piatkowski wrote:

As for California Dreamin', I once had an argument with someone (who is a Christian) who was convinced that the line was "I got down on my knees and I began to pray" when it's really "I got down on my knees and I pretend to pray". They were absolutely convinced that the song wouldn't make sense if they were wrong, and were offended by the real words.

On a similar note, I once went down to the states and when there I saw a best of Van Morrison for 2$ at a thrift shop. Couldn't say no to that! So, it gets to Brown Eyed Girl. You know the part "making love in the green grass"? It was changed to "laughin and a-runnin' behind the stadium with you". I got pissed and tossed out the CD as I couldn't handle the censorship being so blatent and crude, whoever remastered the tune just took an earlier part of the track and spliced it in.

I have always secretly cringed when contemplating that question.  EWWW, Van....just EWWW

Of course, that also leads us to Neil Diamond's immortal "Girl, You'll Be A Woman Soon", a song that I used as part of the sound design for a production of the Paula Vogel play "How I Learned To Drive", if anyone here has ever read that or seen a production of it.

Yes, I definitely knew that "The KKK" was Joey's pet name for Johnny. 'KKK' says all you need to know about Johnny as a person. Here is another tidbit, Joey always insisted on the Ramones playing "The KKK Took My Baby Away" live at most shows. It really is a great song and the subject matter has nothing to do with the KKK it has to do with Johnny being a total goon. Even another tidbit, when Joey was on his deathbed he refused to let Johnny come and see him in the hospital, nuff said.

Scott Piatkowski wrote:

That was actually the radio edit from when it was first released. It's rare to find collections that include the original version.

Ah, well then. Either way I had never heard that radio edit and it angered me immensely.

Simultaneously, regarding the "brown eyed girl"'s age, how old was Van when that song was written. A little personal, but it was a real hoot to see the girl who was my first kiss when I was 14 when we were both 20.

Papal Bull wrote:

 regarding the "brown eyed girl"'s age, how old was Van when that song was written. A little personal, but it was a real hoot to see the girl who was my first kiss when I was 14 when we were both 20.

Well, Van was about 21 or 22 when he wrote and recorded the song.  Ironically(if Wikipedia can be trusted on this point)Van claims to never have been paid any royalties at all for "Brown-eyed Girl", due to the incredibly bad contract he signed before recording(a contract that also left Van personally reponsible for paying the costs for the recording session).

My P.C's in the shop, but I happen to have access to one and thought this was a very interesting thread so in loo of working for a minute here's my take:

This is always a bit of a conundrum.... Sometimes artists intentionally provoke (as some have mentioned with the Nirvana song "rape me") for thought. Many a progressive musician (or any artist for that matter) might also write /create "in character"... Immediately springing to mind (in the 70's) would be progressive folkie fav Phil Ochs (try "Love me I'm a Liberal") or another being  Randy Newman (who was pilloried for writing "short people" back in the day -he's only, like 5'3 BTW- or try "yellow man") for example.

 Sometimes the subtle attempt to be provocative -in order to make people think- might be misconstrued as offensive, which might in fact be exactly the point... Neil Young's "a man needs a maid" from Harvest might fit in that category. That said I am a fan of all kinds of music and artists and occasionally some my faves have more then a few that truly ARE cringe worthy....Hell I love (old) ACDC - hardly a bastion of political correctness.   The same could be said of another major form of social commentary - Comedy & Satire.

I am also a huge fan of the Blues.... And I could just about say every other blues tune out there from the greats like Muddy Waters, Albert King etc, is often sexist. (also many old blues songs sing about "chicken" - If you have knowledge about what that slang represents in a blues context you know what I'm talking about). I guess you have to take in the context, the artist, time period etc.

My 2 cents anyhow.

(P.S I been meaning to make a Canadian version of "Love me I'm a Liberal" (as in LPC) for years... might just get around to it)

Artist: Ochs Phil
Song: Love Me, I'm a Liberal

I cried when they shot Medgar Evers
Tears ran down my spine
I cried when they shot Mr. Kennedy
As though I'd lost a father of mine
But Malcolm X got what was coming
He got what he asked for this time
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

I go to civil rights rallies
And I put down the old D.A.R.
I love Harry and Sidney and Sammy
I hope every colored boy becomes a star
But don't talk about revolution
That's going a little bit too far
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

I cheered when Humphrey was chosen
My faith in the system restored
I'm glad the commies were thrown out
of the A.F.L. C.I.O. board
I love Puerto Ricans and Negros
as long as they don't move next door
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

The people of old Mississippi
Should all hang their heads in shame
I can't understand how their minds work
What's the matter don't they watch Les Crain?
But if you ask me to bus my children
I hope the cops take down your name
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

I read New republic and Nation
I've learned to take every view
You know, I've memorized Lerner and Golden
I feel like I'm almost a Jew
But when it comes to times like Korea
There's no one more red, white and blue
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

I vote for the democratic party
They want the U.N. to be strong
I go to all the Pete Seeger concerts
He sure gets me singing those songs
I'll send all the money you ask for
But don't ask me to come on along
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

Once I was young and impulsive
I wore every conceivable pin
Even went to the socialist meetings
Learned all the old union hymns
But I've grown older and wiser
And that's why I'm turning you in
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

Al-Q'abong: That got me thinking about how frequently people on babble and EnMasse (my sole points of reference) claim that something offends them. It seems to me that one's ability to be offended is somehow a sign of one's "progressiveness" in these here parts. In other words, the more easily one is offended, the higher one thinks one ranks among the right people.

I agree. And actually, I think many are not even offended; they'll just as soon call something offensive, alleging that some people must (or should) be offended. It sounds manipulative to me. Indeed, 75% of what we do offends conservative, patriarchal, capitalist values if we are any good at it, so please don't suggest that offending no one is a positive criterion. Maybe this very good thread title ought to have read "sexist/racist/oppressive" instead of "offensive"...

However, I completely disagree that "My Handy Man" is sexist stereotyping. Indeed it runs conter to the stereotype that women are not supposed to say these things or get that kind of attention and praise it.

Can't say I dislike it...I love it actually, but some white folk will find it offensive.

KRS-One Ah Yeah

Ah yeah, that's whatcha say when you see a devil down
Ah yeah, that's whatcha say when you take the devil's crown
Ah yeah, stay alive all things will change around
Ah yeah, what? Ah yeah!

So here I go kickin science in ninety-five
I be illin, parental discretion is advised still
dont call me n***a, this MC goes for his
Call me God, cause that's what the black man is
Roamin through the forest as the hardest lyrical artist
Black women you are not a b***h you're a Goddess
Let it be known, you can lean on KRS-One
Like a wall cause I'm hard, I represent GOD
Wack MC's have only one style: gun buck
But when you say, Let's buck for revolution
They shut the f**k up, kid, get with it
Down to start a riot in a minute
You'll hear so many Bowe-Bowe-Bowe, you think I'm Riddick
While other MC's are talkin bout up with hope down with dope
I'll have a devil in my infrared scope, WOY!
That's for calling my father a boy and, KLAK KLAK KLAK!
That's for putting scars on my mother's back, BO!
That's for calling my sister a hoe, and for you
BUCK BUCK BUCK, cause I don't give a motherf***
Remember the whip, remember the chant, remember about rope and
you black people still thinkin about vot-ing
Every president we ever had lied
You know I'm kinda glad Nixon died!

This is not the first time I came to the planet
But everytime I come, only a few could understand it
I came as Isis, my words they tried to ban it
I came as Moses, they couldn't follow my commandments
I came as Solomon, to a people that was lost
I came as Jesus, but they nailed me to a cross
I came as Harriet Tubman, I put the truth to Sojourner
Other times, I had to come as Nat Turner
They tried to burn me, lynch me and starve me
So I had to come back as Marcus Garvey, Bob Marley
They tried to harm me, I used to be Malcolm X
Now I'm on the planet as the one called KRS
Kickin the metaphysical, spiritual, tryin to like
get wit you, showin you, you are invincible
The Black Panther is the black answer for real
In my spiritual form, I turn into Bobby Seale
On the wheels of steel, my spirit flies away
and enters into Kwame Ture

In the streets there is no EQ, no di-do-di-do-di-do
So I grab the air and speak through the code
the devil cannot see through as I unload
into another cerebellum
Then I can tell em, because my vibes go through denim
and leather whatever, however, I'm still rockin
We used to pick cotton, now we pick up cotton when we shoppin
Have you forgotten why we buildin in a cypher
Yo hear me kid, government is building in a pyramid
The son of God is brighter than the son of man
The spirit is, check your dollar bill G, here it is
We got no time for fancy mathematics
Your mental frequency frequently pickin up static
Makin you a naked body, attic and it's democratic
They press auto, and you kill it with an automatic

triciamarie wrote:

Rush, The Trees

 

Quote:

There is unrest in the forest,
There is trouble with the trees,
For the maples want more sunlight
And the oaks ignore their pleas.

(etc etc)

So the maples formed a union

And demanded equal rights.
"The oaks are just too greedy;
We will make them give us light."
Now there's no more oak oppression,
For they passed a noble law,
And the trees are all kept equal
By hatchet, axe, and saw.

I like some Rush but yeah; they went through an Objectivist phase.

"And though his mind is not for rent / Don't put him down as arrogant...."

Edited to add - read the rest of the thread, and other folks already pointed that out (are they still objectivists?  I thought they came to their senses.)

Nope.  Peart is making a comment on how lefties use force to prevent the strong and talented from rising to their natural heights.

What about short people by Randy Newman(guy who sung most of the songs in toy story)?

Mojoroad1 wrote:

My P.C's in the shop, but I happen to have access to one and thought this was a very interesting thread so in loo of working for a minute here's my take:

This is always a bit of a conundrum.... Sometimes artists intentionally provoke (as some have mentioned with the Nirvana song "rape me") for thought. Many a progressive musician (or any artist for that matter) might also write /create "in character"... Immediately springing to mind (in the 70's) would be progressive folkie fav Phil Ochs (try "Love me I'm a Liberal") or another being  Randy Newman (who was pilloried for writing "short people" back in the day -he's only, like 5'3 BTW- or try "yellow man") for example.

 Sometimes the subtle attempt to be provocative -in order to make people think- might be misconstrued as offensive, which might in fact be exactly the point... Neil Young's "a man needs a maid" from Harvest might fit in that category. That said I am a fan of all kinds of music and artists and occasionally some my faves have more then a few that truly ARE cringe worthy....Hell I love (old) ACDC - hardly a bastion of political correctness.   The same could be said of another major form of social commentary - Comedy & Satire.

I am also a huge fan of the Blues.... And I could just about say every other blues tune out there from the greats like Muddy Waters, Albert King etc, is often sexist. (also many old blues songs sing about "chicken" - If you have knowledge about what that slang represents in a blues context you know what I'm talking about). I guess you have to take in the context, the artist, time period etc.

My 2 cents anyhow.

(P.S I been meaning to make a Canadian version of "Love me I'm a Liberal" (as in LPC) for years... might just get around to it)

 

Artist: Ochs Phil
Song: Love Me, I'm a Liberal

 

I cried when they shot Medgar Evers
Tears ran down my spine
I cried when they shot Mr. Kennedy
As though I'd lost a father of mine
But Malcolm X got what was coming
He got what he asked for this time
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

I go to civil rights rallies
And I put down the old D.A.R.
I love Harry and Sidney and Sammy
I hope every colored boy becomes a star
But don't talk about revolution
That's going a little bit too far
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

I cheered when Humphrey was chosen
My faith in the system restored
I'm glad the commies were thrown out
of the A.F.L. C.I.O. board
I love Puerto Ricans and Negros
as long as they don't move next door
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

The people of old Mississippi
Should all hang their heads in shame
I can't understand how their minds work
What's the matter don't they watch Les Crain?
But if you ask me to bus my children
I hope the cops take down your name
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

I read New republic and Nation
I've learned to take every view
You know, I've memorized Lerner and Golden
I feel like I'm almost a Jew
But when it comes to times like Korea
There's no one more red, white and blue
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

I vote for the democratic party
They want the U.N. to be strong
I go to all the Pete Seeger concerts
He sure gets me singing those songs
I'll send all the money you ask for
But don't ask me to come on along
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

Once I was young and impulsive
I wore every conceivable pin
Even went to the socialist meetings
Learned all the old union hymns
But I've grown older and wiser
And that's why I'm turning you in
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

Uh, Phil wasn't actuall ENDORSING the offensive views expressed in those lyrics(although you might have had a stronger point had you included his homophobic adlib aimed at the DAR, which can be heard on Phil's live album).  Phil was attacking establishment liberals on many ways that there liberalism wasn't really all that "liberal"(such as the unpleasant habit of some wealthy Democratic politicians in the U.S. to support school segregation and then send their OWN kids to all-white private schools, a habit race-baiting Republicans like Nixon and Reagan and their minions later incorporated as an element in the "limousine liberal" stereotype.    It was the old idea of using the ugliness to nail the ugly-an idea that went back to Jonathan Swift and Mark Twain, and one Phil used in other, darker songs like "I Kill Therefore I Am" and "Pretty Smart On My Part", songs whose lyrics probably can't be quoted in full on Babble.)

RE Phil Ochs,

Ken, that was EXACTLY MY POINT.  (same for Randy Newman)

ETA: Ochs "outside a small circle of friends" hits home the same way.

Interesting. I didn't know that.

Quite the opposite chronology, it seems.  If great artists steal, then Plastic Bertrand is a great artist:

As to the song mentioned in the OP of this thread, John Lennon said(in the "Lennon Remembers" interview he did right after the Beatles' break up)that he always HATED "Run For Your Life".  He said it was something he came up with off the top of his head when the label was pushing for another single.  And the song was released in 1965, at a time when the Beatles had almost NO control over the process of making their own records.  If it had really been up to John himself, the song would likely never have been written.

And John wrestled with the side of him that inclined towards violence all through his life, as he did in the shockingly confessional bridge he wrote for McCarthey's "Getting Better"

I used to be cruel to my woman

I beat her and kept her apart from the things that she loved

And in his solo song "Jealous Guy":

I didn't mean to hurt you,

I'm sorry that I made you cry.

And in his famous observation about how it was always the most violent people who were for love and peace.  John GOT IT that he had those issues and made a significant effort to change on that front.

I doubt we're going to see Eminem or Chris Brown ever get that real with themselves.

al-Qa'bong wrote:

Nope.  Peart is making a comment on how lefties use force to prevent the strong and talented from rising to their natural heights.

Hmm, perhaps I should re-listen to all of my highschool stuff again - I was pretty sure this was about Canadian/US relations?

With regards to the reference to the Sex pistols song Bodies. John(ny) Lydon (rotten) said in an interview (can't recall where or from what) I read while ago that the song was written after he was told of his mother (whom he loved dearly, and wrote the Public Image Limites song Swan Lake in her honour after her death) having a miscarriage and the pain and guilt she felt because of it.

On the topic as a whole I myself would like to parapharse John Denver (when he was testifying at the PMRC) I'm strongly opposed to censorship in our society or anywhere else in the world. To me is art, pure and simple. Art in any form can and will be offensive. Take Piss Christ by andres serrano for instance not only is blatanly offensive it is heretical. I myself am a 24 year old male and have grown up listening to some really "provocative" music to put it mildly. Slayer, the American thrash metal band has always been a favourite of mine because of its guitar riffs and drum breakdowns and pure intensity. The band also has a fixation on the morbid,death of all forms , the occult, and numorous references to Satan himself. Basically alot of subject matter that would make any X-tian fundie or diehard PCer shit themselves twelvefold. Hell their music is even embraces by neo-nazis (despite the fact the lead singer/bassist is a Latino) The band however are not Satanists nor do they condone genocide or mass murder, to them such lyrical content it is simply an apt accompaniment to their unique sound. For instance when asked about their song Angel of Death (yeah that guy Mengela) was sympathetic guitarist Jeff Hanneman replied  

"nothing I put in the lyrics that says necessarily he was a bad man, because to me - well, isn't that obvious? I shouldn't have to tell you that."

An even worse offender would be Chicago noise rock band Big Black, whose lyrical subject matter touches on all the very dark side of American life/culture . But not in any way to achieve any form of monetary gain nor to become "rock stars" but simply to connect to those who already know this or who have experienced it in one way or another. Nothing I can say can be said about this band or other, than can be said better by the book Our band could be your life (it won;t underline) or the documentray American Hardcore: the History of American Punk rock 1980-1986. I recogize there is alot of fucked up shit in songs along the way. But I'll be damned if 'Cocaine Blues" "down by the river" "Hey Joe" get banned. I'd fucking shot myself. If anything I'm way more offened by Lady Gaga and the ilk because they are straight up corporate whores to the T and spout industry garbage for money. She ain't no Kathleen Hanna, not by a long shot. Yes I listen to offensive music, I don;t think I'm a bad person.Thats the thing about art its like Duchamp's fountain to some it's profound to others it;s just another place to piss.

I love Michael Jackson's music, but this song creeps me out, considering his creepy habit of sharing his bed with little boys who visited his ranch and the allegations of sexual abuse made against him:

PYT (Pretty Young Thing)

Bah, The Police.

I liked their first record (the one with the line: "My fine young son has turned out gay," and the song about having sex with a rubber doll), and their second one was OK, but by the time they turned out the third one they were complete corporate whores and offensive by their existence, and thus songs like "Don't Stand So Close to Me" were mere slimy emanations of an already putrid swamp.