It's really dumb that this sort of thing should even be a debate anymore, but apparently it is in the world of comics where there's a dispute over whether or not the supervillain Chameleon committed rape by seducing Peter Parker's (Spiderman's) roommate while disguised as Peter Parker. One might think that the writer could resolve this, but he claims that it wasn't rape too.
http://io9.com/5358396/spider+mans-villains-not-rapists-says-creator
It is difficult to believe on some level, then again sexual assaults happen a lot more in real life than in fiction, how couldn't it be rape? awful.
I don't find it difficult to believe. Beyond the question of is it or is it not which the answer to me is, yes it is, the thing that struck me most about this story is that the discussion and controversy is even happening at all. I am not familar with the comic world or the Spiderman saga but I'm at least happy that some people who do are recognizing it as an issue and aren't happy about it. The comment section after the article was more interesting then the article itself. Thanks for posting it Doug.
Well, that's just awesome. Just what we want to be teaching tween and teen boys (probably their biggest fan base).
Would it legally be sexual assault in Canada? It's my understanding, possibly my inaccurate understanding, that sex under false pretenses is only criminal in Canada if it places a partner's health or life at risk (so, criminal to have sex without disclosing HIV+ status, for example, but not criminal to have sex by saying "I'm with the band" or "I'm a millionaire" or what have you).
BTW, I'm not endorsing this. I'm just wondering about the legal status.
Michelle you got me curious about the demographics of whose reading this. I couldn't find any specific stats, though I found lots of discussions about the lack of stats. In what info I did find though is some info about readers of superhero comics which I assume includes spiderman on several blogs by women talking about the percentage of women vs men reading them. According to that info the average age and biggest demographic of superhero comic readers is about 22-35ish (depending on the survery), video game player, disposable income and single. Women make up about 10-15% of readership.
I found a few discussions related to Marvels aquisition by Disney which did talk about Marvels attempt to woo younger readers I'm assuming because it's some sort of issue for them. Much of the discussion consisted of how that might change the comics themselves as for years it's been a demographic of older readership that have been reading them. According to those discussions the younger crowd is more into Manga and other Japanese style comics and playing video games.
Nice timing for Disney, though. A little controversy for the media that they can claim not to have been responsible for publishing.
Several years ago there was a popular movie re a woman falling off a boat and losing her memory. A man rescues her and then tells her she is her wife. He gets her to do the house work, take care of the kids and has sex with her.
I thougt at the time this was really ugly and pushed the limits of acceptability on general television but there was no out cry about the subject.
Overboard was the name , I think, staring Goldie Hawn??
This was an American remake of an 1974 Italian film by Lina Wertmuller: "Swept Away by an Unusual Destiny in the Blue Sea of August" and that film was hotly challenged by feminists when it came out as romanticizing rape and sadism.
...with her real-life husband, Kurt Russell. I recall the movie, but not the name. Except for the sex part - it might have been vaguely implied, but it was a "family" movie, and if it was implied, I don't recall.
I think there's a difference between lying ABOUT yourself (e.g. I'm a millionnaire) and impersonating someone else to trick someone into having sex. I'm having trouble articulating the difference, but it's there.
Sure, people lie all the time to people they're trying to impress while dating (or, at least, leave stuff out). That's not the same as disguising yourself as someone the person is having a sexual relationship with.
Regarding the demographics, ElizaQ, come to think of it, that doesn't really surprise me either. So we should be worried not just about tween and teen boys reading this crap, but 20- and 30-somethings with disposable income who just can't wrap their heads around what "rape" means.
I repeat: just lovely.
Sure, people lie all the time to people they're trying to impress while dating (or, at least, leave stuff out). That's not the same as disguising yourself as someone the person is having a sexual relationship with.
Well, outside of a Hollywood movie or a comic book, I have to wonder how often impersonating someone would really work. Given that shape-shifters are fictitious and all.
I *think* I recall an actual story of a man who was a guest at a couple's home (or something like that) and ended up having sex with the host's wife because she believed the guest to be her husband. But other than that, I doubt I could go nextdoor, say "Hi Honey, I'm home" and have sex with my neighbour on the premise that I'm her husband.
That touches on the issue of the allegedly criminalized - but still commonly practiced and ignored by law - marital rape. It often happens that women wake up to find their husband having sex "with" them.
Notice the telling sentence structure in the preceding post: "a man has sex with a woman because she believes him to be her husband". Shouldn't it be his knowledge and actions that define the situation?
I really can't remember the story with any reliable clarity (anyone else remember this? Ring a bell??)
I believe it was his assertion that she knew he was not her husband. Her assertion was that it was dark and she didn't know.
I was only mentioning her belief in order to explain how such a thing could possibly happen, not to assign primary agency to her or anything like that.
This is a very common storyline.
It happened in FaceOff, when John Travolta and Nicholas Cage switched placed. I don't remember if there was a sex scene but it's implied as a goal by Travolta's character.
It happened in Buffy, when Eliza Dushku and Sarah Michelle Gellar's characters switched places.
It happened in Battlestar Galactica, when Sharon "Boomer" Valeri impersonated Sharon "Athena" Agathon and had sex with her husband.
Admittedly, 2 of those were full body transfers, rather than one person impersonating another, but the idea is the same.
I don't recall a rape controversy for any of those. There might be some cognitive dissonance as it's deep into the realm of the fantastical, and perhaps the directors are not conscious of their allegory.
This fits in with a long mythological tradition of male god figures taking a familiar form - usually an animal, e.g. Leda's swan - to fool and gain sexual access to mortal females. It has always been acknowledged as rape. The absence of controversy in modern times versions of this scenario says a lot about our process toward male unaccountability. Starting with that of the writer.
Would it legally be sexual assault in Canada? It's my understanding, possibly my inaccurate understanding, that sex under false pretenses is only criminal in Canada if it places a partner's health or life at risk (so, criminal to have sex without disclosing HIV+ status, for example, but not criminal to have sex by saying "I'm with the band" or "I'm a millionaire" or what have you).
I'm not sure about Canada but do remember reading that there is a case pending in the US like this having to do with an identical twin who slept with his brother's girlfriend. He would have gotten away with it except that he happened to be missing a tattoo. My guess is that prosecutors here would and should also press charges here if this happened.
I think that if you have to ask, "Is this rape?" then it is.
It must be uniquitous in scifi, I saw it on a season 2 episode of smallville last night. Didn't make it to sex, but there was making out and the point is the same.
In three of the four cases I listed, the gender roles were reversed from the spider man case (Galactica, Buffy, Smallville) which is pretty typical of scifi/fantasy.
