Please correct me if this has already been posted somewhere. Didn't notice it under AT.
Health minister orders probe of H1N1 body bag shipment to Manitoba reserves
Macabre. I overheard on the CBC today someone comparing it to sending body bags to Afghanistan troops.
Harper Health Care: more body bags!
I overheard on the CBC today someone comparing it to sending body bags to Afghanistan troops.
I don't get the comparison. Don't the troops in Afghanistan actually have a genuine need for body bags? What do they use instead...green garbage bags?
I'm glad to see the issue at the top of the news casts today, or it is on CTV am news programing at least. It needs to be. They had Iggy on already and of course it's great 'political' fodder in this 'is there or isn't there going to be an election' environment. I'm so disgusted by this though that I find myself not even caring about who or what is using it or getting partisan props for it. I hope they, whoever they might be, all go after it with great guns. Fuck Harper, fuck the 'State', fuck systematic racism...
Yes I'm having a very visceral reaction and likely once I calm down consider it more rationally and express what I think with nice and well thought out 'words' but right now, 'Fuck you (undefined globulous systemic mass) all' is all I can come up with.
Sorry bout the language if it offends anyone.
Iggy on CBC just now: "This shows a callous lack of compassion by the government, and the Health Minister can not blame this on her bureaucrats - she has to step up and take responsibility".
CBC reports the Minister has ordered an inquiry into this.
This action by the Harper regime, is beyond belief.
It is a psychological attack, and most importantly a transgression of FN's beliefs.
And what in the hell would they need body bags for in the first place? It is not as if anyone who died on the reserve would be shipped any where, they would be buried right there. And if people are that sick from it, they would be taken out to a hospital before they died, hopefully.
Noticed the story is closed to comments on the CBC's website, but the CTV's comments are full bore against FN's outrage, and downplaying that it is the Cons fault.
Spent some time at the CTV site voting down posts of the clearly racist fuckwads making them.
The G&M commentary was about the same as the racist fuckwads at CTV.
Unmoderated (or undermoderated) comment sections in mainstream news sites are a breeding ground for troglodytes, remind. :)
It's nice to see that the CBC recognizes that there are some stories that you just shouldn't open to comments if you can't moderate it well enough to keep the racist fuckwads out.
CBC is reporting Swine flu H1N1 outbreak in Ahousat..
Ya, I was happy to see comments closed at the CBC site too, michelle, and thought perhaps the other news outlets would close theirs too, but...I guess they do not mind spreading racist sentiments .
From Annex I of the Canadian Public Health Agency's Canadian Pandemic Influenza Plan for the Health Sector:
"Since it is expected that most fatal influenza cases will seek medical services prior to death, hospitals, nursing homes and other institutions (including non-traditional sites) must plan for more rapid processing of human remains. These institutions should work with the pandemic planners, funeral directors and coroner/medical examiner’s office to ensure that they have access to the additional supplies (e.g. body bags) and can expedite the steps, including the completion of required documents, necessary for efficient management of human remains during a pandemic."
Fortunately this virus has been relatively mild so far. But normal pandemic planning includes planning for the possibility of mass casualties, as unpleasant as that is to contemplate. You can yell at me if you like, but it won't change it. The pandemic plans in use now were mostly written while people were studying H5N1, which is a much more lethal virus. They've been planning for the worst, as much as they can. That's what they're supposed to do.
Edited to add: software could still use some work, I see. The paragraph in quotes is, oddly enough, a quote. It didn't format the way I thought it would so I added quotes.
And edited to clarify a bit more: What I'm suggesting is that they've put together standard pandemic planning kits and shipped them without considering the context of who they were shipping them to. I highly doubt that it was intended to offend.
In FN's cultures they believe that people should not bring items of death, as that brings death upon them. Thus the shipment of body bags brings death, not prepares for it. It was a huge colonialist cultural slap.
I understand what you're saying. What I reacted to was the suggestion that it was intentional. It wasn't members of the Conservative Party who assembled and shipped these kits; it was people working for the Public Health Agency and they were likely working from a list that included body bags as a standard item.
Point? That colonial ignorance is a good excuse, or what pogge?
Point? That colonial ignorance is a good excuse, or what pogge?
That's a good example of why I haven't posted here in months.
If you look upthread you'll find yourself suggesting that this was an intentional slap in the fact to these communities. I posted to demonstrate that where the cultural conflict isn't an issue, body bags would be a normal consideration, a normal part of a pandemic planning kit. Because where casualties are high enough to overwhelm the normal ability to cope, having dead bodies laying around exposed is, in itself, a public health hazard.
But I get it. I'm a bad person who's just making excuses. No need to show me the door. I already know where it is.
In FN's cultures they believe that people should not bring items of death, as that brings death upon them.
Thank god they don't feel that way about vaccinations & autism. I know of far too many people who are old-country friends of my dad who don't go to the doctor as they believe you get cancer when you go. When it comes to science vs superstition, science should win the day on health issues.
And....speaking only semi-glibly, how do they handle packing knives and rifles out on hunting trips?
I was sickened to hear this on the radio this morning and I'm glad to hear that an investigation is being carried out. I hope but doubt that it will be a useful exercise.
There seems to be some evidence linking Vitamin D3 with protection from H1N1. I think this information is worth desseminating...it also appears to increase protection from seasonal influenza, etc.
If you look upthread you'll find yourself suggesting that this was an intentional slap in the fact to these communities. I posted to demonstrate that where the cultural conflict isn't an issue, body bags would be a normal consideration, a normal part of a pandemic planning kit.
The guy who made the decision to send these body bags is saying something like that:
Earlier Thursday afternoon, Jim Wolfe, director of First Nations and Inuit Health for Manitoba, issued his own apology and took the blame.He said his department regrets the alarm the shipment has caused in those communities, which were hard hit by the H1N1 flu virus in the spring. Wolfe said the apology goes out to all First Nations in the country, not just those who received the bags.
He said their remote geography was part of the reason he asked nursing stations in those communities to stock up for the winter.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story/2009/09/17/mb-body-bags-butler-j...
There is no truth to the rumor that the Cons are sending body bags to their candidates' riding offices in Nunavut, Northen B.C., Northern Quebec, Northern Manitoba...
My apologies pogge, I did not mean to snap at you. And my tone was harsh when it should not have been. Just projected my anger towards you and I should not have.
~
Having said that, there is absolutely no excuse for lacking cultural sensitivity and excusing it as a lack of knowlege, particularily when it is your job to know, and be aware. That the Cons have people in such positions, who do not know squat from diddley, means it is their direct culpability, whether planned or accidental.
The colonial racist minset is systemic, no hand sanitizer because "they" might drink it, spelling Iqaluit wrong, and now sending body bags.
Then we have enough money to bail out the banks that don't need it, Canwest, Greyhound and the car manufacturers, but will give, those on whose land we sit, SFA. If FN's had proper living conditions, at the bare minimum of what we owe them, and were not under a constant genocidal attack, these out breaks would not even be happening.
Canadians should damn well be outraged en masse, and demanding that the rights of FN's be met. That they/we are not says much, IMV and none of it good.
Jim Wolfe, and the people in FNIHB around him, are all career civil servants. This can't be attributed to the Conservatives any more than it can be attributed to their Liberal predecessors. Indian and Northern Affairs Canada, along with the part of Health Canada that delivers health care to First Nations peoples in Canada (First Nations and Inuit Health Branch or FNIHB), have a way of doing things as bureaucracies that's unlikely to change. It's true that conservative views pollute that entire department ... but then, that's true of many departments in government ... and was true under the Liberals as well.
Health Canada still has some gigantic turds stuck to its face from past clumsy moves. Or is that egg? I just hope that these more recent events won't have the effect of harming health care delivery to First Nations peoples in Manitoba in some way.
unlikely to change?
Why are some people just accepting that this is okay and making excuses??????????????????????????????????
My apologies pogge, I did not mean to snap at you. And my tone was harsh when it should not have been. Just projected my anger towards you and I should not have.
Okay. I took a long break from this place because too often in the past, it seemed people were too quick to skip reading and rebutting the arguments and go straight to questioning motives instead. That was the reason for my reaction.
Well, really....there are very good reasons to question people's motives. However, I would not be questioning yours. ;)
unlikely to change?
Why are some people just accepting that this is okay and making excuses??????????????????????????????????
It's not OK. But I find it difficult to attribute it to the Conservative regime. And that's what some contributors here are suggesting. The Liberals, were they in power, would, undoubtedly, have had the Department do exactly the same thing. I doubt, frankly, whether NDP policy is developed enough in this regard to address such a question (other than to claim that under their watch they would NEVER do such a thing.)
The whole thing is rotten. Many FN people, I believe, want to see the DINA disappear and, probably, have the same view of FNIH Branch at Health Canada.
"I find it difficult to attribute it to the Conservative regime."
Try a bit harder, N.Beltov. Put your heart in it...
Frst, click on http://canada.ca to verify who is in power and accountable.
The H1N1 pandemic in First Nations communities is a huge crisis that can't be reduced to business as usual , the-NDP-wouldn't-do-better-if-it-were-in-power, and bureaucracies-can-be-so-frustrating.
I suggest you read Jessica Yee's essay here.
Yes, but I don't think the combat units would be opening up the shipments that contain body bags. This is akin to sending the body bags with their regular monthly top-ups of soap and other supplies, as if to say, "Here you go... keep some of these handy for your next engagement. Good luck! Thanks, etc..! "I don't get the comparison. Don't the troops in Afghanistan actually have a genuine need for body bags? What do they use instead...green garbage bags?
Yes, but I don't think the combat units would be opening up the shipments that contain body bags. This is akin to sending the body bags with their regular monthly top-ups of soap and other supplies, as if to say, "Here you go... keep some of these handy for your next engagement. Good luck! Thanks, etc..! "I don't get the comparison. Don't the troops in Afghanistan actually have a genuine need for body bags? What do they use instead...green garbage bags?
Are you saying the government sent body bags to the general FN population? Or did they just send them to the public health/ emergency measures officials?
I don't know, M Spector. I wasn't there. I was quoting someone I heard on the CBC. I understood the analogy immediately. It's fine if you don't, or don't want to.
Does it really matter? Do you think in small northern reserves, especially with the condition some of them are in, the "public health" or "EMS" officials, if they exist, are going to be that separate, incommunicado, from the rest of the community? No. Which is why this event made news.
It's not OK. But I find it difficult to attribute it to the Conservative regime.
What other deplorable thirdworld conditions on and off segregated "Indian" reserves are Canada's feds past and present not accountable for? I'll even go on the offensive and say that it wasn't a federal NDP government which created apartheid-like conditions in this Northern Puerto Rico.
[url=http://www.ndp.ca/press/body-bags-are-not-pandemic-plan]Body bags are not a pandemic plan[/url] Incompetence and Insensitivity must be explained
OTTAWA - Health Canada's decision to send dozens of body bags to First Nations communities in the Island Lakes Region in Manitoba as part of H1N1pandemic preparations is being strongly condemned by New Democrat Health Critic Judy Wasylycia-Leis (Winnipeg North).
"Health Canada's action is appalling and disgusting," said Wasylycia-Leis. "Can you imagine how it must have felt watching those bags being unloaded? Body bags speak louder than words. This casts serious doubt over government assurances that it's been listening to First Nations demands for urgent help to protect their residents."
The two old line parties need cleaning out of Ottawa.
Body bags are not a pandemic plan
I've just quoted the title of the NDP press release. They've obviously never read a pandemic plan and the bags weren't the only things in these shipments. And incidentally when the government officials are quoted I think maybe there's a bit of spin there, too. I've already linked to the government's pandemic plan which certainly does mention body bags.
When considering the possibility of a pandemic with a truly virulent virus (think H5N1), it would be prudent to consider the possibility that people would die faster than bodies could be properly processed. That was the point of the reference I linked to. Having a lot of dead bodies laying around exposed can be a health hazard in itself. The NDP is so intent on scoring political points on one issue that they're being irresponsible on a different issue. Not that they're the only party doing that.
We're still in that period where there's a higher than normal possibility that this new virus might evolve into something more deadly rather than burn itself out and become a normal part of the seasonal flu cycle. Nobody knows for sure what's going to happen and I think public health officials are unsure of how to deal with communications issues. If they say too much, which might include saying that body bags are a normal part of pandemic planning, they get jumped on for overreacting and scaring the public. If they say too little and things go south on them, they'll get clobbered for not saying enough to properly prepare the public for a serious event. Having politicians stomp on the message doesn't help.
There are definitely issues to be dealt with between aboriginal communities and Health Canada. From the government side, I think those issues should be dealt with by people who are sensitive to public health concerns as well as the concerns of those communities and not by politicians who aren't thinking before they speak.
ETA:
Actually I've thought better of this (quoting myself):
The NDP is so intent on scoring political points on one issue that they're being irresponsible on a different issue.
It may be that this is all genuine anger on their part with no political posturing. It doesn't change my main point that they're stomping on another issue.
In question period today, when asked about the community of Wrigley which has two thirds of its citizens ill with
the swine flu, Mr. Clement gave a long speeach about how they had met with the BC government and how the BC
government was on top of the situation and how the BC government would take care of it. Then the Minister of Health
told us how Canadians would have the immunization when they needed it. Well Wrigley needed it two weeks ago and
Wrigley is in the NWT, Mr. Clement. And students from Wrigley are here in my home community at college now.
They would have arrrived just after Sept. 1. It's not that I'm so terrified by this flu. It's that the Minister of Health keeps
saying we will all get immunized when we need it. This is such a total lie. Wrigley and my home town needed it two weeks ago.
She says there will be enough when the time comes, but I suspect that will be because most of us have already gotten over it.
I have decided that are really good at sneaky strategy and one line zingers and lies and not so good at long term planning
and other kinds of competent behaviour.
From what I've heard, a vaccine for A/H1N1 won't be able available in Canada until November at best. I think some countries are doing it in two stages with a smaller supply being made available earlier to vaccinate those who are particularly vulnerable along with "first responders", i.e. those who would treat infected patients. I believe Canada has the same priorities in terms of who gets vaccinated first, but no early shipment. It should be noted, though, that it still takes a while to develop influenza vaccine. It's not something you can whip up in a week or two.
ETA:
Flu vaccine coming too late, says opposition
Canadians will have to wait until November for the swine flu vaccine, the country's health minister said Friday, prompting a wave of criticism from the opposition, who say Ottawa has been too slow to react.
And one more:
Swine flu vaccines to fall short: WHO
Global production of vaccines to protect against swine flu will be "substantially less" than the previous maximum forecast of 94 million doses a week, the World Health Organization said Friday in Geneva.
ya, the other 2 things, besides "extra" body bags, in the shipment were hand sanitizers and face masks.
But don't mind me, this whole damn ting makes me furious, and Canadians lack of; outrage and agitating for immediate and better living conditions even moreso.
Last I heard, Canada is opting for the "better" vacine later, instead of the not so good vacine early.
Reading the story linked by Jas, the number of body bags being talked about is 30. A number like that seems like it's body bags for health care people flown in to treat pandemic victims, and whose remains would have to be flown out?
But then, I'm trying to make sense of something that doesn't make sense at all. This is Health Canada, right? Probably means someone at Health Canada is purchasing body bags because some Cabinet Minister owns or gets contributions from the body bag manufacturer.
And....speaking only semi-glibly, how do they handle packing knives and rifles out on hunting trips?
Sometime ago, I read an article in the Skeptical Enquirer about a "superstitious" practice by aboriginal people who used to live or die by the caribou hunt. In dire times when no one could find the caribou, an antler from a previous kill would be placed on a fire. When the antler cracked, the next day's hunt would go in the direction of the crack.
Funny thing about this "superstition" is that random chance would be a better chance than looking for the caribou in conventional places where they weren't. And, it also took the hunt decision making away from a leader who might have tunnel vision in his problem solving. A phenomena I see time and again at work when a group is trying to figure out a problem.
I would not make light of any "superstition" amoung a people who live close to the edge of survival. Those conditions do not favour those who keep nonesensical or irrational superstitions.
Only cultures further removed from day to day or week to week survival can afford the luxury of superstition.
See you at church on Sunday.
Thank you for addressing that comment tommy, I was too fucking mad at the colonial racism inherent in it, to do so.
In the context of what Jessica wrote in her essay - did you know it made The Guardian's pages ?!!! - about the government's refusal to send alcohol-based hand sanitizer to First Nations communities battling swine flu, because the suits feared these would be stolen by alcoholics - it makes perfect sense for First Nations peoples to interpret the reception of body bags instead of vaccines as an acknowledgment that many of them were going to die, that the government was giving up or not even trying to save their lives.
It is rather bizarre that Health Canada and the Minister acknowledge a grievous mistake but that some are still defending that decision here...
Thank you for addressing that comment tommy, I was too fucking mad at the colonial racism inherent in it, to do so.
Perhaps more instructive to the issue is the well documented "placebo effect". We know that it exists, it shows up on tests designed to measure the efficacy of a drug or treatment. It has to be accounted for. And, it stands to reason that if it can work positively, then it can also work negatively.
I wonder how Heywood would feel if someone from the government came into his neighborhood and plopped 30 body bags down.
Hard to keep a positive frame of mind, is my guess.
Or how about if we went to Parliament Hill, and plopped down 308 body bags?
Yer ass would be in jail, is what would happen.
Good couple posts, T_P, especially #33. Thanks.
I agree with others that this is a bureaucratic blunder (yes using a nice word) rather than political. A few years ago I was working for a medical supply company and met with some industry people regarding a pandemic planning conference. Of course among the great list of potential needs was lots of body bags and everyone brought it up for shock value. I can see easily how it became top of mind in pandemic planning.
Yes it was very insensitive, but that is the problem when you start adding layers onto decision making.
[url=http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=15268]Officials send body bags to swine flu sufferers[/url]
NATIVE leaders in Canada said they were "horrified" after receiving body bags from health officials as part of Canada's swine flu preparedness kits.
Aboriginal communities in Canada's Manitoba province were hard-hit by the deadly A(H1N1) outbreak some months ago and since then had asked Ottawa for medical supplies to prepare for a second wave likely to strike soon.
Leaders of more than 30 First Nations communities said they received "dozens of body bags from Health Canada as part of Canada's preparedness plan on H1N1".
The body bags arrived in kits containing hand sanitisers and face masks.
"We had asked for funding so we can get organised and to ensure medicines, hand sanitisers and other preventative kits were in place, but instead we are shocked to receive body bags," Jerry Knott, chief of the Wasagamack First Nation, said.
"This is an ominous sign that the Government is predicting a grim outcome," Chief David McDougall ,,,
Canada's Health Minister Leona Aglukkaq said she had asked officials for an explanation.
Swine flu protocol signed for First Nations
Two federal cabinet ministers and the newly elected national chief of the Assembly of First Nations (AFN) signed a communications protocol Saturday, promising to work closely with aboriginal leaders to control the spread of the H1N1 flu virus.Health Minister Leona Aglukkaq, appearing at an Ottawa news conference with Indian Affairs Minister Chuck Strahl and AFN National Chief Shawn Atleo, said the protocol is aimed at improving communications between government officials and remote First Nations communities.
When asked whether such a protocol would have "made a difference" in Health Canada's decision to include body bags in a flu-supply shipment to northern Manitoba reserves last week, she said, "I think it would have."
Progress of a sort but the devil will be in the details.
As usual, the comments section on the article is a bunch of racist fuckwards, which are being taken to task by a few aware people.
Of note, apparently the body bags were just not shipped to remote reserves, as Kenora reserve received them too, despite being 5 mins from the hospital.
The racist feedback on the cbc.ca website is a grim reminder that Lord Amherst once mused about using germ warfare (smallpox-infected blankets) against Canadian Indians. No wonder many still treat him as a Great Canadian...
Turns out it was the reserve that had ordered the body bags. They weren't sent by Health Canada.
"Despite speculation that Health Canada ordered last month's controversial shipment of body bags to Manitoba's Wasagamack First Nation, the delivery was requested by the community's nursing station in preparation for a possible second wave of H1N1 pandemic, according to a much-anticipated report released yesterday by the Deputy Minister of Health.
Health Canada previously admitted it had "erred" in sending the body bags, but the report said it was Wasagamack's nurse-in-charge who ordered 100 body bags on Aug. 12.
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2081144
They weren't sent by Health Canada.
Actually, they were. Wasgamack's nurse-in-charge ordered 100 from Health Canada, but they sent 38, of which Chief Jerry Knott returned 18.
Too bad people jump to conclusions before all the facts are known.
