Nobody ever said it was in the bag - but if these Liberal bloggers keep putting out the word that Olivia Chow is such a superstar that she ought to be mayor of Toronto - they may inadvertently be helping to her to get more positive publicity and cement her hold on the riding.
On behalf of the NDP, I'd like to express my sincere thanks to Liberal bloggers everywhere for touting Olivia Chow as a potential mayor - and thereby helping her get re-elected to parliament.
The polling thread indicates the Cons gaining ground in TO ridings, and the Liberals slipping badly.
Unless the Conservatives win about 300 seats, Trinity-Spadina won't be going Tory.
No, I'm saying that IF her people have done anything to create this buzz - then my hats off to them for being so shrewd. I think its more likely that some amateurish Liberal bloggers who have watched a few too many episodes of the West Wing outsmarted themselves and got hoisted on their own petards.
If I were Olivia Chow and it came my attention that the Liberal blogoshpere was touting me as a possible mayor - I'd smile to myself, be coy, say NOTHING and enjoy the Liberal manufactured positive publicity while it lasts! What's not to like?
I'm not sure how to respond to such an incoherent stream of consciousness...
my only point is that I'm delighted that Liberal bloggers are touting Olivia Chow as a potential mayor of Toronto. It helps promote her as a politician of national significance who punches above her weight. The more they create a "buzz" about her as a possible mayor - the more positive publicity it creates for her. I don't hear anyone suggesting that Christine Innes should run for mayor - i guess these Liberal bloggers acknowledge that Olivia Chow has far more to offer than does their own Grade Z place holder of a candidate.
I'm not sure what the Liberals purpose is in talking up Olivia as a potential mayor - but it can only backfire by making her look even more attractive in the eyes of the voters - and all she has to do is say NOTHING!
I am saying that despite her best efforts to maintain the appearance of some kind integrity, you are making her out to be a garden variety political operator with your amateurish theories about the political machinations of her PR "team, by manufacturing "buzz" at the expense of the truth.
I guess you think it sounds smart -- You are a real smooth smoothy, Stockholm. Jack as you see, has clearly ruled out running. Perhaps his PR team is not as "sophisticated" as Olivia's.
So, I am speculating that it is you who is really the covert "Liberal" blogger, and not LBAL, as you assert.
I speculate that Olivia is keeping her options "open".
So then surely Jack's organization is equally savvy and would likewise keep their cards close to their chests on Jack's position on the Mayoralty race. Perhaps that has been the problem all along, Jack is surrounded by incompetent's and Olivia is the spinmaster of spinmasters. Hats off to you Stockholm. Your attempts to sound like you are a smooth political operator only brings the party into disrepute, once again.
Jack is already leader of the NDP and gets saturation publicity every day of the week - he doesn't need to be the subject of idle gossip about the Toronto mayoralty for people in his riding to know that he's a national political figure.
I'm not sure what your point is. I'm just glad that Liberal bloggers seem to be giving Olivia Chow all this positive publicity by musing about her as a possible mayor of Canada's largest city. I guess it burns you up because you have such a pathological hatred for her and were hoping that these Liberal stuns would help defeat her. Instead they will backfire. I understand your feelings, it hurts to be FOILED.
Good chance she wont win this riding next time out. If not then it might be a good move for her. She is a bit wasted up there in the talking shop.
I had the impression that you hated all political movements that aren't based in the streets. How do the politics of Toronto city hall differ from the politics of The House?
Jack is already leader of the NDP and gets saturation publicity every day of the week - he doesn't need to be the subject of idle gossip about the Toronto mayoralty for people in his riding to know that he's a national political figure.
Wooot!
I'm not sure what your point is. I'm just glad that Liberal bloggers seem to be giving Olivia Chow all this positive publicity by musing about her as a possible mayor of Canada's largest city. I guess it burns you up because you have such a pathological hatred for her and were hoping that these Liberal stuns would help defeat her. Instead they will backfire. I understand your feelings, it hurts to be FOILED.
In no way shape or form do I associate Olivia Chow with you. I don't dislike her at all. This was indeed part of my point. If you really cared about her fortunes, you would stop being "supportive". All the good this speculated "liberal" bloggery has done for her, you seem intent on undermining it. This is why I questioned your alliegiance, by the same token as you allege these others are really "liberal" agents, so might you be, based on the effect your speculations about her engaging in slimey political gamesmanship and spin would have.
Here is the big reason why Olivia Chow will not run: she became a Member of Parliament on January 23, 2006. She needs to survive federal politics until January 23, 2012 so that she can get a pension. This will sound crass: Olivia Chow should hope that the next parliament has a majority government--Conservative or Liberal (or NDP which I doubt). That way, she will become eligible for a pension upon leaving federal office.
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I will accept Stockholm's assertion that Adam Vaughan is not an NDPer. I believe Vaughan wanted NDP support when he first decided to run for council. However, the local NDP supporters decided to support another candidate.
I have read that Adam Vaughan will not be running for mayor. He, like others who supported Miller on many issues, would have a hard time getting elected as anyone associated with Miller will have the "Miller tag" attached by the opposing candidates.
For 2010, I don't think there will be any social democratic candidates running for mayor. The risks of losing is too high. Any social democrat who wishes to run will likely wait for 2014.
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While I think there will be a lot of potential candidates testing the waters to see if they should run for mayor, I think many will not run. John Tory will be the front runner. Karen Stintz and Denzil Minnan-Wong will test the waters but will probably not run. George Smitherman needs to raise his profile in the suburbs of Etobicoke, North York, and Scarborough or else he won't have a chance in beating John Tory. Smitherman could do well if he gives a clear indication to the voters why he wants to become mayor and what he plans to do. He will need to take some risks if he wishes to run for mayor. Smitherman will need to act quickly. I give him a 50-50 chance in running for mayor.
If Its Tory vs. Smitherman - I say VOTE TORY!!!
Bringing the party into disrepute once more.
Here is the big reason why Olivia Chow will not run: she became a Member of Parliament on January 23, 2006. She needs to survive federal politics until January 23, 2012 so that she can get a pension. This will sound crass: Olivia Chow should hope that the next parliament has a majority government--Conservative or Liberal (or NDP which I doubt). That way, she will become eligible for a pension upon leaving federal office.
Fair enough. But I say this. Given that Trinity Spadina is not sown up, and that the federal election may indeed happen before the Toronto Mayoralty race, and Olivia might lose, she would be stupid to rule out running, since if she loses she wont be getting that pension anyway if she does lose in TP. Ruling out running for mayor would be foolish. She certainly isn't going to step down in TP to run, but that doesn't mean she might not want to if things don't pan out.
I say this despite Stockholm's wild eyed musings about the Machiavellian antics of her million dollar a day PR team. One would think that a true NDP loyalist would stop spilling the beans on the inside story behind Olivia's clever scheming.
That is what I think, yes. No beans to spill.
I'm very flattered if you think I have any "beans to spill". I just read the newspapers and some blogs like everyone else and express my opinions.
The stuff about pensions is total bull shit. Most MPs could snap their fingers and make more money in the private sector than as an MP and work a lot less hard.
If you want to know a really fast road to personal bankruptcy, it would be to run for mayor of Toronto. It is conservatively estimated that to mount a remotely credible campaign you need at least a $1 million and most candidates end up lending their own campaigns their life savings and spend years trying to pay off all the debts afterwards.
In any case, anyone who had the slightest intention of running for mayor had better decide like NOW! Because you need a good year to fundraise and get support and campaign all across Toronto. The idea that anyone is going to run for Parliament next spring, lose and then say "Oh gee, I lost my seat in parliament, I guess I should try to be mayor of Toronto instead as a consolation prize and to ensure that I still have a pay cheque" is ABSURD. Running for mayor is a huge personal sacrifice that will lead to probable personal financial ruin for all but the winner.
If Its Tory vs. Smitherman - I say VOTE TORY!!!
I'd stay home or vote for a fringe candidate.
Good chance she wont win this riding next time out. If not then it might be a good move for her. She is a bit wasted up there in the talking shop.
Let's try this again. You seem to put more faith in the politics of pavement pounding then the actions of hand shaking, suit wearing politicos. Given your pronouced anti suit bias, why are you so much in favor of Olivia becoming mayor of Toronto?
I will accept Stockholm's assertion that Adam Vaughan is not an NDPer. I believe Vaughan wanted NDP support when he first decided to run for council. However, the local NDP supporters decided to support another candidate.
Not sure if he wanted "NDP support" as much as "NDP supporters", i.e. in the John Sewell tradition, he styled himself as an "independent progressive".
But remember, too, his card-carrying Liberal father Colin Vaughan--didn't he have some play in David Lewis's 1974 defeat?
Jack couldn't get elected mayor in '91 within the old city of Toronto boundaries. I can't see Olivia picking up the necessary votes in the 'burbs, esp. with the current anti tax, anti union sentiments whipped up by the city strike.
It's still a long way to November 2010, but I think any left of centre candidate will find it tough slogging. Paul Godfrey and the developers will likely unify around a right of centre candidate and raise buckletloads of money to ensure victory.
That is assuming that voter turn-out is evenly distributed. The fact is that no left candidate will succeed in the burbs for the reasons you have outlined. Voter interest in city elections is notoriously low, so in fact about the only chance the "left" has of success is doing well in central core and hoping for a lack lustre performance by the right in suburbs. In fact, someone like Chow is about the only kind of person who has the weight to pull left leaning voters out in strength, and pull off this trick.
If Its Tory vs. Smitherman - I say VOTE TORY!!!
I'd stay home or vote for a fringe candidate.
Any word on whether Enza Supermodel Anderson is running again?
Considering how David was successfully painted as dangerously left-wing, capitulating to unions, raising taxes, etc, I can't see Olivia leaving federal politics and reducing the # of NDP MPs to run for mayor on a long-shot.
Right. Again, but it would be foolish for Olivia to exclude the possibility since she might soon be out of federal politics, and in such circumstances running for mayor would seem much more reasonable. Being mayor of Toronto is in no means a step down from being an MP for the opposition.
The ONLY possible way that someone "left of centre" could get elected mayor of Toronto in the current climate would be if they were an extremely progressive card-carrying Liberal with a home base in the suburbs - in other words Shelley Carroll. Anyone else would just be pissing away a million dollars and a vast amount of volunteer effort for nothing.
I think that unless Shelley Carroll runs, the "left" (for want of a better word) should ignore the race for mayor, concentrate on council races and force Smitherman and Tory to compete over who can attract the progressive vote.
BTW: If we are talking about NDPers who might want to run for mayor for no other reason than to avoid collecting EI - forget Olivia Chow who has a job right now and look no further than Marilyn Churley who hasn't been doing much since losing in Beaches-East York last year - and she at least has five years fo experience as a provincial cabinet minister.
The fact is that no left candidate will succeed in the burbs for the reasons you have outlined.
It can be done under favourable circumstances. Miller carried all but one of the suburban wards in the 2006 election. However, he was (at the time) a very popular incumbent running against a weak candidate in the form of Jane Pitfield, who got only marginal support from the centre-right faction of council and their backers.
In fact, someone like Chow is about the only kind of person who has the weight to pull left leaning voters out in strength, and pull off this trick.
I agree. Compared with the other potential left leaning candidates -- Vaughn, Giambrone, maybe Joe Mihevc or Janet Davis -- Olivia Chow would generate a much higher level of interest and excitement in the mayoral race. But her chances of victory are likely marginal at best.
For example, myself. I might consider voting in a civic election were Chow running for mayor. Otherwise I might skip it, or even forget.
I know Chow, and I know she works for her constituents and tries to get things done. These others, people like Vaugn, I have no clue about. i am not really into brands.
The ONLY possible way that someone "left of centre" could get elected mayor of Toronto in the current climate would be if they were an extremely progressive card-carrying Liberal with a home base in the suburbs - in other words Shelley Carroll. Anyone else would just be pissing away a million dollars and a vast amount of volunteer effort for nothing.
I think that unless Shelley Carroll runs, the "left" (for want of a better word) should ignore the race for mayor, concentrate on council races and force Smitherman and Tory to compete over who can attract the progressive vote.
Carroll is, to the best of my knowledge, a Liberal, and she would likely face a lot of pressure not to run if Smitherman throws his hat in the ring. The extent to which the "left" needs to focus on council races vs. the mayoralty will depend greatly on the extent to which the province bails the city of its 2010 budget mess. If Dalton at least gives the city enough duct tape and band aids to maintain current services without double digit property tax hikes, then the current palpable level of anger towards the left among Toronto voters will likely dissapate into the usual levels of apathy when the election rolls around. On the other hand, if the province forces the city into major service cuts and/or property tax hikes, then the level of anger will rise and the left will need to devote their energy into holding every ward they can.
I think that the business community will get behind a candidate of their choice. Big money and big business is hard to fight against. Mel got all the developers of his side and thats why he was so successful.
Being mayor of Toronto is in no means a step down from being an MP for the opposition.
Isn't T.O. city hall a smaller version of the house of commons?
For example, myself. I might consider voting in a civic election were Chow running for mayor. Otherwise I might skip it, or even forget.
I know Chow, and I know she works for her constituents and tries to get things done. These others, people like Vaugn, I have no clue about. i am not really into brands.
Gee, you like her so much that just a year ago you were bragging and gloating about how you had voted for her Liberal opponent and wanted her to lose her seat. With friends like these - who needs enemies?
Yes, I don't really associate Chow with the NDP. She is really a wasted force in Ottawa gallery of poseurs, so there is no point really in voting for her. Plus she officially carries the NDP stigma when running for you in TP. Many good reasons to vote against. On city council of as mayor, none of that applies.
Stockholm's making shit up as usual. I voted for one of the local independents. Stockholm is just retreating into his empty "anyone who is not an NDP supporter" is a Liberal schill routine. Interesting that you believed it. That is why libel is dangerous. There were a bunch of fucking NDP sychophants on this site repeating that bullshit over and over again, during the last election. I guess they got it from Stockholm. You repeat a lie often enough... etc. as Goebel's said. It really speaks to the kind of politics that Stockholm represents, scurilous and sleazy. I must admit, no one on this board has hardened me to the NDP more than Stockholm.
Smear, attack, and deflect: Scumbag politics, dishonest and mean.
Stockholm, another good reason to not vote NDP. He brings the party into "disrepute".
You DID vote liberal? If you really don't care about electoral politics, why didn't you just stay home, thereby avoiding the codemnation of your fellow radicals? Your decision seems greasy and rather stupid.
Stockholm did make a good point about Marilyn Churley - if it were her or Olivia, who do you think?
I have met both of them, and I like them both, but Marilyn is friendlier, more warmly personable and unpretentious. She might be more effective at generating broad support, while I have to say, Olivia tends to be admired more than liked.
Assuming Churley has aspirations to enter municipal politics, she would be better off running for councillor in Case Oote's ward, esp. if he vacates it due to long-standing health problems.
I'd like to see Steve Harper or even Michael Igstoogioff run for mayor. They might achieve a personal and ultimately new level of incompetence if they tried real hard.
Uh, Cueball, a simple, "You're mistaken - I didn't say I voted Liberal - I voted for the independent," probably would have been sufficient. Even a bit of bristling at Stockholm's tone might have been okay. Your response is over the top, however, and I think you know it.
I don't really see it that way. What I see is Stockholm stating flat out that person after person is a Liberal supporter, or agent or whatever, and getting away with it, and smearing them. Precisely the effect we see is CMOT and others actually believing it. I think its an intentional debating strategy, on top of trolling. This behaviour is far too consistent to be a simple "mistake".
Just look at post six of this thread:
In any case, this is just a nuisance thread started by some Liberal who knows that the only way a Liberal can hope to win Trinity-Spadina would be if Olivia Chow didn't run there. But there is absolutely ZERO chance of that happening - so they can dream on.
And what is the end result of this kind of smear tactic? Simple, I am being chastised by CMOT Dibbler for voting Liberal. Mistaken? I don't think so. At all.
You really think that Stockholm "mistakenly" believed that I voted Liberal? I really don't see why his "speculations" about people's political affiliations and whatever are being allowed free reign, at all.
Stockholm's making shit up as usual. I voted for one of the local independents.
Watchout everybody, it's the ol' I voted for a high quality independent candidate capable of thinking for him or herself on case by case basis as they see fit schtick. These independent candidates so good, in fact, that they don't even need a political platform to be held accountable to. Just a wink an' a nod is good enough for the most democratically minded voters. And here I believed him when he said he abstains from voting altogether. Typical.
Why don't you fuck off, since you have nothing productive to add other than more smear jobs and personal attacks.
Stockholm wrote:
In any case, this is just a nuisance thread started by some Liberal who knows that the only way a Liberal can hope to win Trinity-Spadina would be if Olivia Chow didn't run there. But there is absolutely ZERO chance of that happening - so they can dream on.
This thread was started LBAL - who i think we can all agree is a Liberal Party supporter (as his name suggests). Cueball flatters himself if he thinks I was referring to him.
Why don't you fuck off, since you have nothing productive to add other than more smear jobs and personal attacks.
And not only that, your punctuation is atrocious, too.
You told us you didn't vote for anyone in the last election. This was in addition to your stated interest in a spoil your ballot campaign. I must say I just don't know what to think now.
I don't. I was simply pointing out the consistency of your disinformation. You know full well I didn't vote for a Liberal in the last election and you are just engaging in a conscious smear job because you have no arguement. That is just a smear job, because you can't do any better.
Fidel, let's just tiptoe away while "Morticia" has another of her tantrums.
Scotty, beam us the heck outa here.
You told us you didn't vote for anyone in the last election. This was in addition to your stated interest in a spoil your ballot campaign. I must say I just don't know what to think now.
No actually. I did not. Now its friggin obvious that both of you are so busy tying yourself in knots with my failure to comply with your seriously backward political views that you can't even read what is front of your face. Perhaps the dearth of logic the two of you exhibit has everything to do with the fact that you are doing LSD before reading.
Now rather than speculating on who I vote for, or trying to sort through your garbled memories for the scoop on my political affiliations, why don't you come up with some quotes where I said the things you allege I have said or shut up?
Somebody please close this thread.
[url=http://www.rabble.ca/babble/canadian-politics/voting-wrong]Voting is wrong[/url] starring you know who
Where did I say: I "abstain from voting altogether." No where. Where did I say I voted Liberal, as Stockholm said? Where anything? What is most absurd of course is that you are now bringing up all of this crapola, when in fact I stated long ago that I voted for an independent candidate in my riding in the last federal election, and we indeed discussed why I did so then. I gave my reasons at the time.
In fact reading the thread you can see that voting for an Indpendent candidate is entirely consistent with the arguement I made in that thread, not that what I actually say has anything to do with your fantasy land.
Now is the Mcarthy inquirey finished yet?
Cue, I love you but for the love of god, take a breath and STEP AWAY FROM THE FUCKING KEYBOARD.
I'm sorry for asuming that you voted lib...
So what you really meant to say in that thread title is that it's every citizen's obligation to take 20 minutes out of their lives once every four years to mark an X on a ballot?
