China #2

George Victor wrote:

(And please, Fidel, no more lessons from "history". We need you to step forward with policy proposals of direct relevance now...

Welcome to the multi-polar century? I think that the best foreign policy that any country can have is to build democracy in one country first and foremost as an example for other countries to follow. In this way we pave the road to socialism in one country. And if enough countries can eventually be transformed into advanced democracies, perhaps then a quiet revolution around the world will take place and leading to global socialism. Socialism or barbarism? Barbarism is pretty much the road the world has taken, and especially so since 1991. And countries like China and Russia are well aware of the military encirclement of their countries since dissolution of the USSR, and they are acutely aware of the continued financing of the US Military at cold war levels.

China is investing $220 billion into research and development of green energy technologies. I think that is a very good policy and something that can be viewed as a gesture of good intentions by the rest of the world.

And what will our colonial administrators sell to China that isn't spoken for already by corporate America? We need to work toward creating some form of democracy and sovereign rule of our own country before the CPC will take notice of Ottawa, George. It's no wonder to me why Wen Jiabao scolded little boy Harper for straying too far from his outpost in Ottawa. We need legit leaders of our own to be taken seriously by the CPC.

I think the CPC may have secret state of the art weapons labs deep in the mountains somewhere, George. Like Stalin and the Sovs did. And who could blame them. They remember MacArthur and his plan for Asia, we can be sure.

[url=http://www.opednews.com/articles/Afghanistan-only-the-firs-by-michael-pa... winning the grand chess game in Central Asia[/url] Diplomacy mightier than sword

George Victor wrote:

And here I thought that diplomacy  without military backup had all the substance of a fiddler's fart? (Pearson's brokerage role in the middle east in 1956 being an exception).

And I believe that this is why Jack Layton says diplomacy is needed in Afghanistan. The Taliban and women's rights are not going concerns for NATO, are they, George? The real issues need hashing out between all countries involved and an exit plan for NATO spelled out in detail for them. We need Jack the diplomat in Ottawa not the vicious toadies that are there and embarrassing Canadians every time they nod up and down in rapid agreement with warmongering plutocrats in Warshington.

It's all relevant to China, George. Our stooges have put Canadian troops on China's frontier. It's not our neighborhood.

[url=http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2010/01/10/china-exports.html]China overtakes Germany as biggest exporter[/url]

If the Liberals want to distribute maple leaf flag pins made in China, and now the conservatives want to sell them to unemployed Canadians, too, then where do we draw the line? We can be sure the Chinese are'n't buying national symbols made by Canadian workers.

George Victor wrote:

Yes, that's sort of what I'm also bitter about...the unemployed Canadian workers bit. Not sure where we're poised to invade.

The CPC want Canada's military to kiss Uncle Sam's ass anywhere else but on their front doorsteps. It's an obscene thing to have view from anyone's front window. And I imagine if Harper and Iggy were to do this arse-kissing anywhere in the viscinity of our own Western hemisphere would prolly suit the CPC just fine.

George Victor wrote:

Is that the Communist Party of China, Fidel, or the Conservative Party of Canada.  You lost me.

Our own CPC allow supranational energy companies to dictate Canada's national energy policy(see Monbiot's description of Canada as a corrupt petro-state).

Whereas the Asian version of the CPC are competing with western world energy companies for what's left of fossil fuel reserves in fueling that country's unprecedented in world history industrial expansion. With neoliberal globalization of state-capitalism, the emphasis has move more toward hemispheric influence and control than continental. Corporate America has siphoned off most all of our cheapest and easily accessed proven reserves of crude and natural gas. Soon it will no longer be enough to pay them to take it off our collective hands. China is a real country with real leaders, whereas Canada has been a colony and preserve of natural resource wealth for British, French, and now a US corporate empire to raid at will. It's an unwritten rule that Canada's colonial administrators shall not create competition against private enterprise. Asia's state "capitalists" are competing,  and they are winning.

Our capitalists are under the illusion that they can rule the world monetarily since abandoning investment in productive labour economy beginning in the late 1970's-80's.

"When money arrives, all is green, bustle and abundance. And when it leaves, all is trampled down, barren and bare" old Chnese proverb

"Where the military is, prices are high" an even older Chinese proverb

Joey Ramone wrote:

This is why I gave up posting in this thread.  I'm interested in talking about how to best support the interests of the hyper exploited workers of China and it's colonies, but as long as the gang of corrupt thugs who rule China cynically call themselves the "Communist" Party of China, all such discussion will be derailed by obfuscation about whether their capitalists are more efficient than our capitalists. 

Keep trying JR. It's important and will become more so. Do you know China Labour Bulletin?

Going It Alone

http://www.clb.org.hk/en/node/100507

[url=http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China_Business/LA12Cb01.html]Henry CK Liu[/url] writes about capitalism and problems associated with low wages and overcapacity of production:

Quote:

China needs to accelerate its domestic development with sovereign credit denominated in Chinese currency to proportionally reduce its excessive dependence on export for dollars financed by foreign capital in dollars. China needs to denominate its export trade in Chinese currency to break free from dollar hegemony. This is the key strategy for positively influencing a new world economic order of universal justice to replace current predatory terms of international trade under dollar hegemony.[...]

In conclusion, China can exert a positive influence on a new world economic order by setting an example with its own national development policy. To achieve this goal, China needs to adopt the following policy initiatives: [see henry Liu's impressive list of recommendations for China

And China is half way there already with state-owned central bank and investments banks financing infrastructure projects and now a commitment by the CPC to spend hundreds of billions of dollars on universal health care and 30,000 hospitals and clinics across China.

Thanks for both!

Quote:

Good intentions" your ....ass...umption.

Ha.  That's a rather puerile glazing on that glass house of yours.

I think that our neocolonials at the time would have preferred Chiang Kai-shek and madame taken over China and hacked off pieces of it for the corporatocracy. We - or rather the supranational energy and other companies dictating things to our guys in Ottawa - would have eventually ended up competing with China for world resources whether they are Maoists or Confucian-capitalists beating our brains in with mixed market Keynesianism there anyway. It's the same thing with Russia since they integrated with western economies. That the USSR was a closed economy trading block of nations apparently didn't matter. Because since 1991, a US-led NATO has proceeded to encircle both China and Russia regardless. We could trade freely with Russia and China for whetever it is they have. I think the leaders of those countries realize now it's just a game, and their opponents are very psychotic.

China's 'Ant Tribe'

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/LA15Ad02.html

"they are like ants: clever, weak and living in groups.."

And a good portion of what they spend on war and occupation goes to making sure that socialism does not spread... or is that all funded with the drug money?

US Bites The Hand That Feeds It

http://canada.mediamonitors.net/content/view/full/70806

"Even though the US military budget is almost ten times that of China's (with a population more than four times as large) and Washington plans a record $708 Billion defense budget for next year compared to Russia spending less than $40 Billion last year for the same - China and Russia are portrayed as threats to the US and its allies. China has no troops outside its borders, Russia has a small handful in its former territories in Abkhazia, Armenia, South Ossetia, and Transdniesler. The US has hundreds of thousands of troops stationed in six continents.."

It is important to remember that the 3 key countries supplying China with oil in Africa includes ... Libya. And the NATO rivals to China are furiously trying to appropriate the entire oil weath of that country over the barrel of a gun, using "rebel" proxies and the like.

The barely disguised NATO aim of overthrowing the Gadaffi regime by whatever means they can - including slaugtering civilians, using depleted uranium weapons, killing large groups of muslim peace actvitists and imans in Tripoli, etc, etc, etc - is clear to anyone who remains objective. And leaders from other oil rich countries - like Venezuela's socialist President Hugo Chavez - have pointed out for quite some time that this was the likely course of events, predicted it even, and warned of the invevitable NATO atrocities that would follow.

There are things that can be done to support worker's rights in China.

The government there is aware of the threat of unrest -- the need to bring more people in to the equation. They have already expressed a desire to see wages rise steadily so long as markets don't get cut off. They could be quite open to some leadership from countries like Canada with respect to our ethical purchasing-- provided we focus on what we are doing and buying rather than advice to them beyond that. I am sure they could be open to some kind of monitored exploitation free production so long as we were willing to pay the cost.

We have safety laws. We in fact can inspect plants there and we do. If Canadians wanted to identify the products made in China that provide a certain standard of wages or even environmental standards and we were willing to pay more for those products-- this would happen. The Chinese government will not stand in our way if we want to reduce our exploitation. The blaming of the Chinese government for western exploitation is a nice cover to avoid guilt but it is a farce when considered practically. Already you can buy paper from China that is environmentally managed and paper as a result of stripping the earth of trees. We like the cheap stuff.

It is not the Chinese governemnt that wants to exploit the Chinese people and leave them poor living in poison it is the western market that wants this. Sure, governments all over the world will comply when we come waving dollars with the exploitation terms we offer but don't pretend for a moment that they would not prefer fairer treatment if we offered it.

You want to help oppressed Chinese workers? Well this can be done here. We can go after the people who market, buy, tax and sell the product of exploitation and modify those terms. Then let the Chinese do what they need to do from their end. When we stop being the problem -- they will find a solution. When we stop exploiting their people to our benefit, the people there will have more opportunities to build the kind of country they want, whether it meets our preferred ideal or not is not that relevant. Sorry but it is very much that simple.

All Chinese citizens have the right to vote.  My understanding is that the vast majority of the Chinese population accepts the legitimacy of their government and the system they live under. Maybe their government is as representative of the peoples will as ours is. 

I would agree that the system has some inherent weaknesses that make it fundamentally undemocratic and thus incapable of doing much to curb the economic elite from getting the laws they want. Does anyone who posts on this board dispute that the same can be said about Canada?

Unlike in Canada where we are going backwards on employment standards they are starting to bring theirs up.  Unlike Canada they are investing heavily with public money in modern public transit to curb climate change.  Unlike Canada they are not currently part of an occupation force or conducting daytime bombing missions in densely packed cities. 

But hell those damn Chinese need us to teach them some moral superiority.  Damn heathens anyways.

I should clarify that there will always be loopholes but there is so far no attempt whatsoever to reduce the exploitation of the people who make the stuff we in the West use. I'd like to see some effort there.

George Victor wrote:

And there are rumblings from those countries where incredibly nasty things are being done to supply the rising empire with resources, human and natural.  Not that existing emp;res don't continue to practise awful things against both.  But at this time, western failures are far, far more transparent.  Lack of transparency apparently does not bother those who fly on faith.

Incomprehensible.  Do you provide translations?