Toronto Centre by-election continued

Gene Lara now appears as an endorser on both the Liberal and NDP campaign websites. Only two more political parties to go, Gene.

“Glen Murray has the experience and dedication to uphold and support issues of human rights, the environment, health care and community development. This makes him different from the rest of the candidates. He is a seasoned public servant with a proven track record of service. There is no doubt that he can improve the conditions of the people in the community. ”

"Cathy Crowe is the one candidate that voters should seriously consider as she has been involved in advocating for the homeless of this community. It is worth voting for a person who has been trying hard to alleviate the communities’ needs."

Yes

Thanks.

When did the Greens revise their position and what is it now?

60% of Ontarians want one school system, and every party is afraid to touch it (Cue someone who is bound to say: the Greens got 8% and ZERO seats.  Obviously this is not an issue people care about)

Yeah the Greens seem invisible this time around.  I think Cathy Crowe who is an activist and not seen as a typical politician is likely to appeal to a lot of Green voters.

At the federal level, various pundits have been picking up on how there seems to be this disconnect between the Greens getting as much as 12 or 13% in some rather suspect national polls - but then  getting 3% or less in each of the four recent federal byelections. I think the same questions are soon going to be asked at the provincial level. In the St. Paul byelection, the Green got something like 5% and now in Toronto Centre (where federally the Greens had shown some signs of relatively strength in the federal byelection in 2008) they seem destined to be blown out of the water. People are going to have to ask where this supposed green support is if it seems non-existent in two downtown Toronto ridings like St. Paul and Toronto Centre which ought to be somewhat fertile ground for them. You'd thnk they would run their new leader in the byelection just to get a bit of publicity.

Stockholm does raise an important point about the lack of LGBT representation on Cathy Crowe's list of endorsements.   The only one I recognize is community physician Alan Li, though there may be others who aren't visibly involved with LGBT issues.  Why no endorsement from say, El-Farouk Khaki?  Or perhaps Helen Kennedy, or former candidate Brent Hawkes? 

"The problem with that is University students are old enough to be responsible for their choice of faith / worldview. Whereas, by facilitating religious worship in public schools, we would be aiding the indoctrination of children with taxpayer dollars."

The GPO has not changed its position. Not emphasizing the one school system over the economy is not the same as changing policy. Equal funding is not a large issue in Toronto Centre and there are more immediate issues that need to be addressed. I have been touring schools for 30 years as a guest artist and accommodations have already been made in many schools to allow Muslim students, as an example, a chance to pray on Fridays. This is done discreetly and doesn't disrupt the school schedule one bit. A very simple solution for young people of faith. Allowing people to express their faith is not indoctrination of any kind. Religious studies in schools as a part of the social education curriculum is not indoctrination.  If students can learn political systems and philosophy they can also learn moral values in the same manner.  The GPO has been clear that money saved in a one board system can help finance full day kindergarten.

I don't know what you mean by FPTP when it is in the same sentence sequence as the others.  The way to achieve proportional representation is to continue to express diverse views and votes.  It won't happen by endorsing the old system which is already rigged towards the status quo.  Since when does a candidate have to be 'famous'. Stefan has worked in the community for a long time and if you wanted to get to know him then just call/email him and ask him your questions or express your concerns. Dan Murray may be well known but so is McGuinty and the liberals and their record. Murray is trying to present himself as the guy who can get Dalton and the rest of his colleagues to see the light and it's simply not true.

The GPO is less visible in this campaign because there was no CA in place prior to the by-election call and the campaign is late getting underway. It certainly is not unusual for a Green campaign to be invisible to the media but Stefan has not been invisible to the community in general during this election. The target is maintaining the 9% or 10% earned in the last provincial election with the resources available. I'm not going to pretend to know how the residents of TC will vote so we'll know on Thursday what the results will be.

I've also heard recently that the liberals are worried and have had trouble generating the same volunteer enthusiasm in this election.  Maybe that's just by-election apathy on the part of supporters who think this a 'done deal'.  That's the beauty of by-elections sometimes.  Once in awhile passion gets to kick the ass of apathy. 

Lord Palmerston wrote:

The Greens actually seemed quite visible in St. Paul's.  They had a fairly high profile candidate and lots of signs up.

And another difference from the St. Paul's byelection is a more aggressive NDP campaign souping up what might have been Green energy--by comparison, Julian Heller could never quite shake that perennial third-place factor vs Hoskins + Levy...

mimeguy wrote:

"The problem with that is University students are old enough to be responsible for their choice of faith / worldview. Whereas, by facilitating religious worship in public schools, we would be aiding the indoctrination of children with taxpayer dollars."

The GPO has not changed its position. Not emphasizing the one school system over the economy is not the same as changing policy. Equal funding is not a large issue in Toronto Centre and there are more immediate issues that need to be addressed. I have been touring schools for 30 years as a guest artist and accommodations have already been made in many schools to allow Muslim students, as an example, a chance to pray on Fridays. This is done discreetly and doesn't disrupt the school schedule one bit. A very simple solution for young people of faith. Allowing people to express their faith is not indoctrination of any kind. Religious studies in schools as a part of the social education curriculum is not indoctrination.  If students can learn political systems and philosophy they can also learn moral values in the same manner.  The GPO has been clear that money saved in a one board system can help finance full day kindergarten.

I disagree with most of this, and I'd like to discuss a few points in more detail so I'll start a new thread. I'll copy my post(s) the other relevant posts there and then those that want to discuss the religion in schools issue can join in.

mimeguy wrote:

I don't know what you mean by FPTP when it is in the same sentence sequence as the others.  The way to achieve proportional representation is to continue to express diverse views and votes.  It won't happen by endorsing the old system which is already rigged towards the status quo.  Since when does a candidate have to be 'famous'. Stefan has worked in the community for a long time and if you wanted to get to know him then just call/email him and ask him your questions or express your concerns.

Granted if more people's votes are wasted it makes a more compelling case for PR, but it isn't a compelling reason for me to support the GPO or this candidate. It's a fact that the GPO has no chance at this time in this riding. If I were neutral as to whether the NDP, Liberal or Conservative wins the seat I'd consider voting Green so my vote is added to the statistics for the GPO. However, I'm far from neutral so I'll be supporting the NDP at this time.

[URL=http://www.rabble.ca/babble/canadian-politics/religion-schools-green-par... in schools (Green Party of Ontario)[/URL]

Neither the New Democrats nor the Liberals seem to want to make this a byelection about issues (unlike the NDP's HST-based St Paul's by-election).  This appears to be a straight personality-based contest between local hero Kathy Crowe versus come-from-away Liberal Glen Murray.

No kidding...isn't 80% of the population south of Bloor? 

@Lord Palmerston: I don't have the demographic data to hand, but I wouldn't be in the least surprised. Rosedale can vote whichever way it wants, because it alone won't make any real difference to the outcome (although from my perspective, I'd like them to choose Taylor, as she can't get arrested south of Bloor). Whoever sweeps the blocks gets the prize.

I've been wrong before on this, but the result here might just show how complacent the Ontario Liberals have become. Read (some of) the press and you get the idea that Murray's having his robe and ermine measured, ready for his coronation.

In other by-election news, [url=http://www.xtra.ca/public/National/OPEN_SECRET_Conservative_cabinet_mini... Taylor outed John Baird[/url] this morning.

Scott Piatkowski wrote:

In other by-election news, [url=http://www.xtra.ca/public/National/OPEN_SECRET_Conservative_cabinet_mini... Taylor outed John Baird[/url] this morning.

Wow!  I didn't hear that this morning!

Has John Baird commented on his outing?

I profiled Baird in 2006 when he joined Harper's cabinet. While he wasn't outed, he was noticed for some of his gay positive initiatives. From Wikipedia: 

Quote:

 * He supported same-sex marriage during the 2003 provincial election and, in 2005, helped the McGuinty government achieve quick passage of a provincial bill granting legal recognition to same-sex couples.

* Baird won a contested nomination battle for Ottawa West—Nepean Conservative nomination on May 5, 2005.... John Pacheco, a leader in the social conservative movement against same-sex marriage, had also sought the nomination but was disqualified due to past comments he had made alleging that homosexual practices posed a health risk.

* In December 2006, Baird was one of thirteen Conservative MPs who voted against reopening the national debate on same-sex marriage.[69] 

My guess is that he and the PMO will let the comment pass and hope that no one notices.

The thing is, according to the media's rules of engagement, this now gives them grounds to mention it. I suspect Taylor outing Baird will be a minor story in the Globe and maybe the Star and that his sexual orientation will be mentioned in articles at least as often as it merits a mention in stories about Kathleen Wynne, Smitherman or Scott Brison ie occasionally.

I agree. I think its perfectly fair to ask why the Conservative Party has no openly gay MPs or MPPs. Similarly, if the entire Tory caucus was male - it would be legitimate to ask - why not a single woman?

For Crowe to win Taylor has to do much better in Rosedale than have recent Tory candidates. Any impression of how the campaign is going north of Bloor?

aka Mycroft wrote:

For Crowe to win Taylor has to do much better in Rosedale than have recent Tory candidates. Any impression of how the campaign is going north of Bloor?

I was north of Bloor today - along Roxborough, Macpherson and Marlborough (west of Yonge so not Rosedale).  Very, very few signs up.  Taylor and Murray were about even, no green or orange.