The Goldstone Report - Part II

Sat, 2009-11-14 13:25

Diogenes

Shimon Perez wrote:

"Goldstone is a small man, devoid of any sense of justice, a technocrat with no real understanding of jurisprudence... If anyone should be investigated, it should be him"

Shimon Perez is the President of Israel and the 1994 Nobel Peace Prize laureate.

Richard Goldstone wrote:

"I would say that the President's comments are specious and ill-befitting the Head of the State of Israel,"

"I am content to be judged by my actions over the course of my career both in terms of my professional judicial career and my voluntary service."

Richard Goldstone chaired the UN Report on the Gaza "conflict" and has called on Israel and Hamas to conduct their own open and impartial investgations into possible war crimes and crimes against humanity. Failing that, he recommends that the matter be heard by the International Criminal Court in The Hague.

source

President Obama, will you change history or repeat it?

ETA: Actually both gentlemen said the above and did not write it. Artistic license requested.

Sat, 2009-11-21 08:42

#3

earth_as_one earth_as_one's picture

The UNHRC fact-finding mission is headed by [B]Justice Richard Goldstone[/B], former member of the South African Constitutional Court and former Chief Prosecutor of the International Criminal Tribunals for the former Yugoslavia and Rwanda.

The three other mission members are:

[B]Professor Christine Chinkin[/B], Professor of International Law at the London School of Economics and Political Science, who was a member of the High Level Fact Finding Mission to Beit Hanoun (2008 );

[B]Ms. Hina Jilani[/B], Advocate of the Supreme Court of Pakistan and former Special Representative of the Secretary General on Human Rights Defenders, who was a member of the International Commission of Inquiry on Darfur (2004);

and [B]Colonel Desmond Travers[/B], a former officer in the Irish Armed Forces and member of the Board of Directors of the Institute for International Criminal Investigations (IICI).

Their Biographies
[URL]http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/specialsession/9/docs/Bio...

Links to their report:
[URL="http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/specialsession/9/FactFind...
[/quote]

[URL="http://www.un.org/News/dh/photos/2009/15-09-2009gaza.jpg"][IMG]http://www.un.org/News/dh/photos/2009/15-09-2009gaza.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[URL="http://www.unhchr.ch/huricane/huricane.nsf/view01/9B63490FFCBE44E5C12576..."][B][COLOR=#993300]Summary of their Report[/COLOR][/B][/URL]

Tue, 2009-11-24 07:35

#4

Diogenes

Since the release of the Goldstone report on Sept 16, there has been only one mention of it in the House of Commons.

There is no debate, no questions, absolutely no indication of support from any MP, opposition or otherwise. Instead the Conservatives and Liberals are engaged in a pissing contest over pamplets about who supports Israel more.

Maybe it's because war criminals have a common cause and should stick together.

Turmoil In Canada over Alleged War Crimes in Afghanistsan

ETA: My apologies, there was one other reference in the house which I mentioned here:

James Lunney, Conservative MP, better drop leaflets before you bomb!

Sun, 2009-11-29 17:42

#5

Diogenes

There was an Parliamentary Delegation to Palestine that filed their report a few days ago (Nov. 25).

There were 3 MP's who made the journey last August:

Libby Davies (NDP, Vancouver East)
Richard Nadeau (Bloc Québécois)
Borys Wrzesnewskyj (Liberal Party)

There was no one from the Conservatives to join the delegation and the report makes it clear that the delegation received no help from the Canadian government, especially with entry to Gaza.

The report also makes reference to Operation Cast Lead and the extensive damage it caused to Gaza, including their water treatment plant. They talk about the cruel eviction of Palestinians from their homes in East Jerusalem; they mention that per-capita water usage is 20 times higher in the illegal West Bank settlements than in the neighbouring Palestinian areas. Some of this is quite moving.

They make recommendations (summarized and sometimes editorialized by me):

Lasting peace by endorsing the Obama peace plan (WTF? - What peace plan?)
Funding for UNRWA - they ask that the Canadian gov't to fund UNRWA as much as was given in 2008.
Oppose the The Barrier; the Wall; the Security Fence, or whatever they choose to call this ugly symbol of Israeli apartheid
end the illegal Israeli settlement activity
end the Blockade of Gaza
end Israeli border control discrimination of Canadians of Palestinian origin
exclude products made in the illegal settlements from the Canada-Israel Free Trade Agreement

One salient point they make is that Canada funded the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) to the tune of $28 million in 2008. This year, as we approach the anniversary of Operation Cast Lead, our Conservative government has pledged or committed less than 10% of the 2008 total.

Hey - Israel has a right to defend itself, right?

The report mentions or includes research from various UN reports, the World Health Organization, the World Bank, the International Monetary Fund and the International Court of Justice.

But there is no mention of the Goldstone report. Zilch. Nada. Ixnay.

Now I can understand this coming from the Liberals as they engage the Conservatives in their current "Who Are You Calling an Anti-semetic" pissing contest, but what gives with the NDP and BQ?

Sun, 2009-11-29 19:52

#6

Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture

And this, "exclude products made in the illegal settlements from the Canada-Israel Free Trade Agreement," is bullshit.

Mon, 2009-11-30 06:52

#7

Diogenes

Frustrated Mess wrote:

And this, "exclude products made in the illegal settlements from the Canada-Israel Free Trade Agreement," is bullshit.

Normally FM, your posts are amoungst the most elequoent on this forum. This one was a little obtuse.

I am assuming that you think we should boycott all Israeli products rather than just "any goods from areas that the Government of Canada itself considers to be illegally occupied", as our delegate MP's have suggested. If so, I am in complete agreement.

Mon, 2009-11-30 06:59

#8

Diogenes

Libby Davies did mention the Goldstone report in the House of Commons last week, the first mention by an opposition member since the report was released.

Quote:

Ms. Libby Davies (Vancouver East, NDP):

Mr. Speaker, I am honoured that the report of the parliamentary delegation to the West Bank and Gaza this past August has been presented.

It was a significant and compelling experience, and I am committed to raising awareness about the worsening humanitarian disaster in Gaza and the need to end the blockade, normalize borders and end the occupation of Palestinian lands.

I am deeply concerned that the Conservative government has so politicized the situation in the Middle East and has gone so far as to attack MPs and organizations who criticize the actions of Israel as being anti-Semitic. Let us be clear. Anti-Semitism has no place in Canada.

The Conservative attacks are reminiscent of McCarthyism and also have no place in Canadian society.

Rather than trying to silence and denigrate legitimate public debate, including its contempt of the Goldstone report, the Conservative government must stand up for international law, human rights and the fourth Geneva Convention.

I hope all members will consider this report and ensure that Canada affirms its commitment to peace and justice for Palestinians and for a lasting--

Of course Ms Davies was shouted down by heckling from the government benches. Oh Canada, who stands on guard for thee?

Mon, 2009-11-30 17:04

#9

Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture

Hamas says it is on the verge of starting its own investigation into whether it committed war crimes during Israel's war on Gaza.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/11/2009112920241225848...

Tue, 2009-12-01 08:30

#10

cubicalgangster

Hamas is going to investigate? With what resources? With what ability to move? We can't expect either Israel or Hamas to make legitimate investigations given either their limited capacity or negligence for truth. It was clear almost immediately that war crimes were being committed by Israel, was anyone surprised with the results of Goldstone Report? This report was the last semblence of justice for the conflict and our political leaders have shrugged it off. It just goes to show that Israel is unwilling to take criticism of it's unlawfulness, more reports aren't going to solve anything.

Tue, 2009-12-01 09:14

#11

Diogenes

An important point is that Hamas has agreed to conduct its own open investigation. Israel has not, other than sham internal reviews by the IDF.

Mon, 2009-12-14 19:43

#12

earth_as_one earth_as_one's picture

I know this is old, but I thought I'd add an update.

Quote:
Dec 11, 2009
IDF: 30 'war crimes' cases 'baseless'

...The IDF has completed a review of the 36 "most serious" cases of alleged war crimes as cited by Judge Richard Goldstone in his damning report on Operation Cast Lead, and concluded that 30 of them are "baseless accusations," The Jerusalem Post has learned. The other six were found to relate to genuine instances, where operational errors and mistakes were involved....

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1260447412579&pagename=JPost%...

No surprise there. How is Hamas's investigation going? I don't expect much there either.

However:

Quote:
...10/07/2008
Hamas arrests Gaza rocket squad after two Qassams hit Negev
By Haaretz Service and News Agencies

Hamas arrested three Palestinians who fired rockets into Israel from the Gaza Strip on Thursday, a militant faction said, in the first such detentions since the Islamist group and Israel agreed on a cease-fire last month..

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1000881.html

Mon, 2009-12-14 20:12

#13

sandstone

here's the report for anyone interested in getting beyond the noise... you can actually read the report, rather then accept or negate it without an actual read of it...

http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/specialsession/9/docs/UNF...

check page 238 for a few pages of interesting reading... info like this is scattered throughout...

Mon, 2009-12-14 23:21

#14

Unionist

sandstone wrote:

here's the report for anyone interested in getting beyond the noise... you can actually read the report, rather then accept or negate it without an actual read of it...

Thanks, sandstone, but it's an odd assumption to make that we haven't all read it (at least, those of us who care to). You'll notice this thread is "part II". Long ago, in the very opening post of part I, [url=http://rabble.ca/babble/international-news-and-politics/un-report-war-cr... September 16[/color][/url], M. Spector provided a link to the full report. You may wish to scan the posts in that thread to see what has already been discussed. Or not. Up to you.

Mon, 2009-12-14 23:25

#15

sandstone

unionist, it was just a general comment not necessarily applicable to anyone here... i did scan the previous thread and thought it would be worthwhile to post a link to the report here again should anyone decide they'd like to read it without having to sleuth for it.... but thanks!

Tue, 2009-12-15 00:40

#16

G. Muffin

Unionist, here's your assignment.

I need a fix.

Boil this thread into one sentence.

Mother Superior jumped the gun.

Tue, 2009-12-15 00:42

#17

G. Muffin

Did anybody feel the earthquake?

Perhaps it was just me.

Happiness is a warm gun.

Discuss.

Bang Bang Shoot Shoot

Support gun control. Charlton Heston, give us a break.

Don't you know that happiness is warm milk?

Tue, 2009-12-15 00:44

#18

G. Muffin

Babbling 101. Any questions, PM me. On this one topic only, let's abandon the privacy requirements of PM etiquette (joke there for the taking). Actually, abandon ship.

Somebody please start a new thread referencing this post. If you feel like it.

Silly girl.

Martha, my dear.

Tue, 2009-12-15 00:45

#19

jas

G. Pie, are you a virus?

It would be cool if you took over every thread on the TAT.

In fact, I challenge you to.

You said you had til 11?

Tue, 2009-12-15 01:19

#20

G. Muffin

jas, jas, jas, my dear friend.

Yes, I am a computer virus.

Gotta go.

Heart palpitations. Drug overdose. That kind of stuff.

The world is waiting just for you.

However big you think you aarree ....

Signed,

Sexy Sadie

Tue, 2009-12-15 01:21

#21

G. Muffin

Helter Skelter

There's always a choice.

The Goodbye Pie did the best she could.

Charles Manson, not so much.

Discuss.

Tue, 2009-12-15 01:24

#22

G. Muffin

Support babble.

Boycott the Olympics.

Support free speech.

Read Any Rand very, very, very, very carefully.

Sarah Palin isn't smart enough to tell a lie.

And, although I think he's awesome, Obama is smart enough to tell a lie.

But he's not smart enough to fool Judge Judy.

Discuss.

Tue, 2009-12-15 01:25

#23

G. Muffin

Ultimate Shorthand

Organic Chemistry

If you know these two things are related, try to stay out of academia.

You may be a lover, but you ain't no dancer.

Helter Skelter.

Tue, 2009-12-22 00:19

#24

NDPP

The World's Betrayal of Gaza

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?c=Article_C&cid=12602579156...

"the 'civilized 'west which created Israel by giving European Jews the historical and ancestral homeland of the Palestinian people is virtually silent in the face of this shame.."

Tue, 2009-12-22 10:42

#25

Diogenes

G. Pie - I have never hit the "flag as offensive" check before but I am tempted now. Stop the nonsense.

Sun, 2010-01-10 11:16

#26

NDPP

Moshe Halbertal and the Goldstone Report: Part 1

http://www.zcommunications.org/znet/viewArticle/23551

"For those who know the full historical facts about Israeli - Palestinian conflict, one of the most shocking and depressing phenomenon is the extend to which many leading Israeli [,Canadian] and American Jewish intellectuals and academics ignore, conceal or wilfully deny them..."

Wed, 2010-01-13 04:19

#27

NDPP

Israel Dragging Gaza To New War

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?c=Article_C&cid=12623722684...

"With its recent aggression, Israel is trying to provoke the Palestinian resister factions into retaliatory attacks that could be used as a pretext for lauching a new deadly offensive on the war ravaged Gaza Strip, analysts believe.

Israel has mounted several deadly strikes over the past 10 days killing more than 12 Palestinians in the coastal enclave.."

Thu, 2010-01-14 13:44

#28

Brendan Stone

For those who might be interested, Dr. Mads Gilbert, one of only two physicians allowed into Gaza during Operation Cast Lead, will be touring a number of Canadian cities next week:

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=214022713159&ref=ts

I interviewed him here:

http://www.radio4all.net/index.php/program/38792

and was pleased to see that he seems to be endorsing the Goldstone Report too. Hopefully, we'll be able to get more about this on his tour.

Fri, 2010-01-15 06:59

#29

NDPP

For Israel A Reckoning

http://original.antiwar.com/pilger/2010/01/14/for-israel-a-reckoning/

"no state is allwed to flout international law as wilfully as Israel. In 1990, A UN Security Council resolution demanding that Saddam Hussein get out of Kuwait was the same almost word for word as that demanding Israel get out of the West Bank. The US and its allies drove out Iraq while Israel has been repeatedly rewarded.."

Tue, 2010-01-26 04:17

#30

NDPP

Agents of Imperial Terror: Aggression at the Goldsone Report

http://www.palestinechronicle.com/view_article_details.php?id=15705

"Israel's exemption from the primary tenets of international law flows straight out of the self-exemption from those same laws that its imperial overlord, the US, has insisted upon for itself in global affairs.."

Israeli Information Minister Slams all Reports on Gaza War as Anti-Semitic

http://news.antiwar.com/2010/01/25/israeli-information-minister-slams-al...

War on Goldstone Now Deploys Human Rights orgs and you guessed it, the Holocaust

http://mondoweiss.net/2010/01/war-on-goldstone-now-deploys-human-rights-...

Tue, 2010-01-26 09:08

#31

G. Muffin

NDP (oops!), would you comment on some of these stories? I have to leave in 23 minutes and don't have time to review them all. Please peruse and report back here.

Tue, 2010-01-26 19:42

#32

sandstone

http://mondoweiss.net/2010/01/goldstone-found-that-israels-collective-pu...

As Israel prepares its response to the Goldstone Report, several articles indicate that its primary objective is to discredit the contention that it carried out, in the words of Ethan Bronner, "an official plan to terrorize the Palestinian population." Today Haaretz reports that Israel’s response to the UN will seek to "reject most of the fundamental claims of the Goldstone report: it intentionally waged a punitive campaign against a civilian population, including the destruction of infrastructure."

Wed, 2010-01-27 06:47

#33

NDPP

The Holocaust Backfires

http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/the-holocaust-backfires.html

"If the Holocaust has any universal and ethical meaning, stopping the 'Jews only state' and bringing its criminal political and military leaders to justice is the true interpretation of the lesson of the Holocaust.."

Fri, 2010-01-29 08:37

#34

Diogenes

Israel set to respond to the Goldstone report:

Deadline nears for second UN report on Gaza war

Friday marks three-month limit set by General Assembly for internal report; Israel prepares to issue own response.

Haaretz, Jan 29, 2010

A review of some facts:

Gaza war - Operation Cast Lead

13 Israelis were killed, 10 soldiers and 3 civilians

4 Israeli soldiers were killed by "friendly fire" - The IDF killed more of its own soldiers than Hamas killed Israeli citizens.

In Gaza - 1400 killed, 5000 injured, 30% of those children

0 - number of Israelis killed by rocket launched grenades/mortars in 2008 (until Operation Cast Lead)

0 - number of Israelis killed by suicide bombs (in Israel) 2006-2010

Life in Israel

346 - number of Israelis killed in automobile accidents in 2009, one of the safest year on the roads on 40 years.

Go ahead and dispute the facts if you can. Try and convince me that the Gaza massacre was about Israel's right to defend itself. Try and convince me that Harper even gives a shit, just like he did with the Afghan detainees.

Fri, 2010-01-29 12:45

#35

sandstone

diogenes - you are preaching to the choir here...

Mon, 2010-02-01 12:08

#36

N.Beltov

Phosphorus weapons are OK. Killing 1300 Palestinians is OK. Just don't steal any credit cards, OK?

Israel "disciplines" Army Officers.

Quote:
So far only one Israeli soldier has been prosecuted for misconduct during the war - for stealing a credit card from a Palestinian house - even though hundreds of Palestinian women, children and elderly people died in the war....

But in its report, the Israeli authorities maintain that their use of white phosphorus munitions "was consistent with Israel's obligations under international law" and was disciplining the two officers specifically for firing artillery shells and not phosphorus incendiaries.

Sat, 2010-02-06 14:20

#37

NDPP

PCHR: Expresses Grave Concern Regarding Credibility of Investigations Carried Out in Response to Recommendations of the Goldstone Report:

http://www.pchrgaza.org/files/PressR/English/2009/07-2010.html

Rights Group Outraged at Ban for Dragging War Crimes Issue:

http://zakiraah.wordpress.com/2010/02/05/rights-group-outraged-at-ban-fo...

"UN Secretary General Ban Ki Moon said no determination can be made on the implementation of the resolution by the parties concerned," during the meeting of the UN General Assembly on Thursday, prompting an outcry from the Palestinian Center for Human Rights."

CLearly, the UNSG is collaborating with USRAEL to evade and bury Goldstone

Sun, 2010-02-07 01:38

#38

Diogenes

UN likely to refer Goldstone findings to The Hague

Haaretz, Feb 7, 2010

Sun, 2010-02-07 01:49

#39

Lord Palmerston

[url=http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1146392.html]Dershowitz: Goldstone is a traitor to the Jewish people[/url]:

Quote:
Prominent political commentator Professor Alan Dershowitz slammed jurist Richard Goldstone, the architect of a UN report which accuses Israel of Gaza war crimes, saying he is a traitor to the Jewish people, Army Radio reported Sunday.

Dershowitz and Goldstone have been colleagues and close friends for many years before the UN Gaza probe, but once Goldstone published his report the ties between the two were severed. "The Goldstone report is a defamation written by an evil, evil man," Dershowitz said.

In an interview with Army Radio, Dershowitz said he is appalled by the report and can't fathom how it could have been written by a Jew. He said it is as if a Jew would have written the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, and that the jurist is using the fact that his last name is 'Goldstone' to substantiate the report's defamation against the Jewish people.

Sun, 2010-02-07 13:01

#40

Diogenes

I read that too. What a shithead. Attack the messenger, not the message. That's what you do when you have no valid arguments.

Sat, 2010-02-13 11:21

#41

NDPP

Dreyfus, The Protocols and Goldstone:

http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/dreyfus-the-protocols-and-goldstone-by-g...

"If we ever want to amend the reality we have live in we must curtail the Zionist operators in our midst, in the government, in politics, in the media, in academia, in finance and in the legal system. I am not talking here about Jews but Zionists, people who are affiliated with a specific foreign tribal interest that counters universalism, ethics and humanism.

Unless we do that we may soon have to face another Goldstone report investigating a much greater Zionist crime against humanity.."

Mon, 2011-04-04 03:32

#42

NDPP

Israel Demands Retraction Of UN Gaza Report

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/04/03/israel-demands-retraction-of-un-ga...

"Speaking at the weekly cabinet meeting on Sunday, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Israel would set up a team of legal experts and diplomats to find concrete ways 'to turn the clock back on try to lessen the enormous damage of this train of villification against the state of Israel.'

'Goldstone himself has just confirmed what we knew all along...I think our soldiers and army behaved according to the highest international standards', the premier said during a brief televised address..."

Revisiting Israel's Terror War on Gaza - by Stephen Lendman

http://sjlendman.blogspot.com/2011/04/revisiting-israels-terror-war-on-g...

"Operation Cast Lead remains one of history's greatest crimes. On April 1, Richard Goldstone's Washington Post op-ed headlined 'Rconsidering the Goldstone Report on Israel and War Crimes'...."

Mon, 2011-04-04 16:56

#43

milo204

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/4/4/judge_goldstone_retracts_part_of_his

Not to mention, even if certain specific incidents can't be proven to be attacks on civilians by policy, the entire policy of attacking palestinian civilians with military and economic violence isn't even addressed. The fact a military assault was launched against civilians because a couple of soldiers were kidnapped/killed is in itself a war crime.

By israels logic, israel should have been invaded over 10 000 times for all the innocent civilians (much worse than soldiers) it has kidnapped and disappeared into secret israeli jails, presumably torturing them as well. No one agrees with that logic, for good reason.

Tue, 2011-04-05 11:54

#44

NDPP

Samouni Family Responds To Goldstone Backtrack

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXxL0lg4mxs&feature=player_embedded#at=180