iPods made by iKids

I remember Rabble giving ipods away as gifts.

E.Tamaran wrote:
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I remember Rabble giving ipods away as gifts.
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I don't think there are any electronics anywhere that aren't tainted by bad labour practices, or if there are, I'm not aware of them. Although the digital restrictions management is an issue that I'd also raise regarding Apple products.

E.Tamaran, just curious - what kind of computer are you using to read babble and do other online stuff? I'm assuming it's one that you were very careful to ensure was made by unionized North Americans, right?

Good point. I'll bring it up the next time we discuss a fundraising drive.

Is it okay for a progressive person to use electronics that have child labour in them, though? Especially one who makes a point of being critical of others for using them?

It"s not a vicious claim is a debating tactic. And applying your logic, Rabble at the time they gave away the iPods was not aware of the issues associated with them. Do you think they should express retroactive guilt?

I'm not a computer whiz, but it says Cicero, Intel PIII, running windows Xp. Made in Burnaby BC.

And probably the same with my Dell. And my ACER before that. Sigh.

None of us is pure, and I'm sincere when I say that it sucks that we can't be. I wonder if there would be a market for computers made in Canada under proper labour standards? Would they be THAT much more expensive? How much of a mark-up do companies like Apple add to their computers that they get some kid to manufacture and put together for 50 cents an hour or whatever?

Michelle wrote:

I wonder if there would be a market for computers made in Canada under proper labour standards? Would they be THAT much more expensive? How much of a mark-up do companies like Apple add to their computers that they get some kid to manufacture and put together for 50 cents an hour or whatever?

It would be very, very, very expensive. Canada doesn't exactly have the infrastructure to start building all the parts that are necessary for any one component of a computer to be mass produced in the quantities that would make it a viable business. It is really expensive to build a facility to produce a lot of those parts. Plus, you'd have to source your stuff throughout the world to make sure that good labour practises were followed in the raw production and shipment of materials. And with a mark up like that, a company would be hardpressed to find investors...or customers. I need my own computer, but there is no way in hell that I could ever afford one

With the way the world works, you have to understand what goes into every single tiny, itsy bitsy component of your computer or blissfully wish away what goes into allowing our pampered asses to write out each of these posts. Every time your fingers push down a key, you're pressing a blood key, sending an electric signal through a blood connecting cord to a blood CPU, GPU, RAM, hard drive, and having that be worked over by tons of blood capacitors and resistors, etc. There is no sense pulling a 'holier than thou' stance and being critical of others unless you've never, ever owned or operated a computer.

E.Tamaran wrote:

I remember Rabble giving ipods away as gifts.

I'm sure some of the electricity being used to make rabble.ca available is generated with non-renewable power, too.

I guess we'll have to shut rabble.ca down.

radiorahim: preacher of the open source

There are more than 1.3 billion people in China, and you say there are 25 children working "somewhere" there in iPod factories? Does the government in Beijing know about this? Have Apple execs notified anyone in China?

Le T wrote:

radiorahim: preacher of the open source

Thread drift...slightly...preacher of free software

Why Open Source Misses the Point of Free Software

Michelle wrote:

Good point. I'll bring it up the next time we discuss a fundraising drive. Is it okay for a progressive person to use electronics that have child labour in them, though? Especially one who makes a point of being critical of others for using them?

That's somewhat unavoidable, isn't it? Like it was said, a computer manufactured to Canadian standards is not competitive. That doesn't mean progressive consumers can do nothing though. I think its the role of the progressive consumer to try to aim for purchasing the product manufactured to the "least worst" standard. Its the role of the progressive NGO (and arguably, government) to inform the consumer which product is manufactured to the "least worst" standard. Then pressure is felt by corporations to clean up a little. Consumer boycotts don't always work, but they don't exactly always fail either.

Is it ethical to purchase an Ipod? Well, see if there's an alternative.

West Coast Greeny wrote:

 

Is it ethical to purchase an Ipod? Well, see if there's an alternative.

It's pretty difficult to be ethical with regard to electronic hardware...it's pretty much all made in sweatshops.

It is possible to be ethical about the software.   Apple tries its best to make sure that iPods only talk to its proprietary "iTunes" software which is only available for non-free operating systems like MacOSX and Microsoft Windows.

A number of audio players make use of Microsoft's "MTP" protocol to transfer files  between your computer and your audio device.  I've run into this with some players made by Creative.   This means you can only "talk" to these devices with a Microsoft Windows operating system.

Other players make use of MTP, but allow you to turn it off so that your computer sees it as a "mass storage device".

I would avoid any portable players that force you to make use of either iTunes or the MTP protocol.

I would also try to purchase media players that allow you to play media in non-patented free media formats like ogg vorbis and FLAC.

I have one Samsung player that plays ogg vorbis files and a player made by Cowon that plays both ogg vorbis and FLAC files.   FLAC by the way is the "free lossless audio codec"...you get full CD quality audio in a compressed file format...mind you the files are rather large!

E.Tamaran wrote:

Michelle, you've fallen into the "oh well everybody does it" trap. Just because "every" piece of electronics has child labor in it doesn't mean it's ok for a progressive organization like Rabble to give it away as a prize...

During the the times that I barely had enough money to eat I still boycotted places such as Walmart that are well documented as IMPLIMENTORS of child slavery.  But there are some things that cannot be avoided - in the case of anyone reading this - using a computer. 
Child slavery is obviously one of the many human conditions that needs to be remedied. 
It is good to encourage and use diplomacy which is the only tool we have as people living in a society that will NOT put you before a firing-squad for speaking out against atrocities.

Condemning someone because they wipe their ass with a product made from the forest is counterproductive especially if you are doing the same thing.  Euch Tweugh...

Fidel wrote:

We have  child labour happening right here in our own hemisphere. Imagine that.

Wacha talkin bout Willis?!