Cuba: A nation which would be PERFECT if it weren't for...

Sven, you're baiting. Fidel doesn't have to justify himeself to you like that. Cut it out. Thank you.

Sven wrote:

Well, I'll leave it to our Fidel to complete that sentence cuz he sure can't answer this incredibly simple and straight-forward question:

Is there any substantial action ever taken by Fidel Castro regarding which you have any significant criticism?

Why should I not create a thread entitled: "What would make America a less war-like and more democratic and friendly nation post-cold war era and post-9/11?" 

...and then "buttress" that central thread idea with a question that asks: Is there any substantial action ever taken by Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, doctor and madman, Carter, Reagan, either of the crazy Georges, or Clinton which Sven might be vaguely critical of? And remember that as Fidel is retired from politics today, so are none of those US presidents heading up US cosmetic government in the here and now no matter how much it still feels like the cold war baloney is still alive and well. Today it's Barack and Raul and all that baggage that went before them.

As far as very many Americans are concerned, there is no cold war history. It never happened. And Cuba shouldn't even exist today. But it did happen and Cuba just is. Socialist Cuba is a thorn in the side of rightwing ideologues who thought it possible to kill an idea over the last 70 years. And there is nothing more terrifying for the vicious empire than an idea that refuses to wither die like so much Chicago School free market fundamentalism on the wane today.

Sven wrote:

And, if the people of Cuba, in free, fair, and open elections (and that doesn't include one-party rule, sorry, Fidel), want socialism, then I think that's just great.  I wish 'em the very best of luck.

Sven, what's the difference between one party rule and the USA's charade for democracy with two-party rule? Are two parties representing billionaire interests twice as democratic as one?

How does the fact that a tiny billionaire oligarchy in the U.S. pre-selects a grand total of two presidential candidates by virtue of multi-million dollar campaign funding supposed to help or even impress Cubans enough that they would want to allow the US to impose that kind of dollar democracy on Cubans?

Cuba has elections every two years. Cubans vote for deputies to the National Assembly and delegates to provincial assemblies to be elected by direct and secret ballot as are delegates elected to municipal assemblies in the same manner. Cubans vote for Cubans all the time, and any Cuban national can run for election. Their democratic voices are not silenced by a lack of Wall Street financing whether they are card carrying members of Cuba's communist party or not.

U.S. money isn't allowed in Cuban elections, Sven.  I know that sounds totally alien to someone like you. That's just the way it is in Cuba though. Free elections, Sven? Your country and mine should try that some time, too. Because apparently voter turnouts in our countries are down around where Fiji, Benin, and capitalist India's voter turnouts are ranked in the world. How can Cubans be impressed with such low approval rates for our tin pot dollar democracies? Because once our tin pots in Ottawa and Toronto are propped-up with 22 percent of the registered vote, they just don't listen to what the other 78 percent of the electorate has to say and don't care much about it either for four years at a time until the next two party stooge-off.

Your two candidates for cosmetic leadership are always-always pre-selected beforehand by a billionaire oligarchy. Ordinary Americans have no say in the matter.

Sven -- the issue here is that historically Cuba has been the victim of the US Imperial game.  Generally criticizing victims is low on people's priority list.

Imagine if you will a co worker loses his spouse to a long, painful cancer.  Nobody at work will be making jokes about his b.o. no matter how bad he may smell.  It would be in extremely poor taste.

So I am not surprised that you're not finding anyone to play along with your little game.  Your country fucks shit up for Cuba and then you want to put the focus on Cuba's bad choices.  Hey maybe next we can talk about all the dumb moves that Haiti's done.  You think that would be in good taste?

I've stated before what I think happened to the hunger striking dissident Tamayo. Apparently that's not good enough for Sven. Fidel and Chavez and Morales are all evol tyrants as far as Sven is concerned, and there will be no reasoning with him otherwise. Sven's ears are covered and chanting "la la la la la la la I can't HEAR you!!!" Sven thinks we're all demonically possessed,  or something, because we care far too much about the intricacies and fine details of actual democracy and not the bullshit version we are fed every day by our corporatized Matrix-like sci-fi movie world in 3-D.

Sven's mind, like that of so many Americans and Canadians,  is a closed economy of sorts, like the US and Can-Am Military-industrial complex budget is not debatable in Congress or Parliament year after year, or the soft budgets on social spending for the rich etc. It's all trust and obey and wrap ourselves in the flag as far some of us are concerned and which isn't very. The red pill is just too difficult for some to swallow and causes nausea, vomiting, dimentia, high fever and even nightmares for some people. The blue pill, otoh,  induces feelings of bliss and total mind-body disconnection with what's really happening.

Richard Madman Nixon faced electoral competition. So did the crazy Georges in recent times. And so did Hitler have electoral competition, but only after rich bankers and industrialists propped-up him and his party did Adolf stand a chance for election.

Whether they are dictators installed by an elite few or dictators who seize power forcefully, one of the two types of dictators last only as long as the people are unwilling to overthrow them through rebellion. The US Military and CIA have had to intervene in Haiti and other countries many times to prop-up Uncle Sam's brutal rightwing dictators and tyrants over the years.

And the US-CIA has known since Bay of Pigs that there is no will among Cubans for regime change in Havana. It's why the US Government has resorted to supporting Miami-based terrorism against Cuba, dirty tricks and ordering more than six hundred mafia-CIA hits on Fidel and to no avail. If only US-backed tyrants from Chiang Kai-shek to Fulgencio Batista and Pinochet were as popular among the people, they'd have been in power a lot longer than they were. Cost of supporting tyrants and despots around the world would have been much cheaper for US taxpayers over the years. History reveals that vicious empires don't last though due to rising costs and usury, intolerable rule and corruption. At some point the capitalist system will only survive by military dictatorship and police state, and which they are contemplating now.

What the right has promised billions of people around the world is middle class capitalism based on consumption, two cars in every garage and mini-mansions, the chance to become millionaires for relative handful few etc. And socialists have made much smaller and more realistic promises for health care for all, education, jobs and basic housing. Billions still await a capitalist economic long run that can not possibly materialize for the vast majority of them. The cold war era promise of middle class capitalism for the other 85% of humanity was a colossal lie. People will slowly come to realize it.

What would mornings be without the grope and flail to set the record straight.

Quote:

Imagine if you will a co worker loses his spouse to a long, painful cancer.  Nobody at work will be making jokes about his b.o. no matter how bad he may smell.  It would be in extremely poor taste.

What if it's found that he hits his wife. Is it OK to mention it, or would that also be in poor taste? Can we say that's not OK, or does his cancer trump that in some kind of false dilemma?

Yikes! Oh that was just Sven being Sven. He's okay.

Hey Sven, Crosby from Iginla in OT eh. he he[/trolling]

I think we can all agree that losing the hurricanes would help.

Snert wrote:

What if it's found that he hits his wife. Is it OK to mention it, or would that also be in poor taste? Can we say that's not OK, or does his cancer trump that in some kind of false dilemma?

He doesn't have cancer, his dead wife did (the one you're claiming he "hits"--great sense of taste there Snert).  You're so trigger happy that you're skipping over the words you're reading.  You flubbed your opportunity to look clever.

 ...if it wasn't for doctor evol running the place

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v697/rabblerabble/dr-evil2.jpg[/IMG]

Welcome to my lair of evol.

Fidel Castro Defends Treatment of Dead Dissident:

http://www.laht.com/article.asp?ArticleId=353106&CategoryId=14510

"Fidel Castro and Cuba's state media monopoly have confronted international and opposition criticisms of the Cuban government following last week's death of political prisoner Orlando Zapata Tamayo after an 85 day hunger strike:

'In our case we have never tortured anyone, we have never ordered an adversary killed, we have never lied to the people," the retired Cuban President said.."

Cuba would be perfect if it pioneered a new and innovative syndicalist movement.  Cuba would be decimated by allowing the western facade of democracy; just ask the people duped by the various American backed multicolored "democracy revolutions." I personally would love to live in a country where major economic decisions were made democratically.  Most Canadians I think would agree.  

Cubans appear to by and large just peacefully go abut their businesses giving nominal support to their government because it engages in a facade of "democracy."  I don't see much difference in the legitimacy of their system compared to ours.  They both allow the ruling elite to make the important decisions. The real difference is that in Canada our leaders have to phone Washington first.

How was it that, just by looking at the thread title, I could GUESS that this was a Sven thread?

BTW, Sven, why does Fidel owe it to YOU to criticize Cuba?

I mean, fine, there are grounds for criticism and there's room for improvement.  But do you really believe that Cuba is the most oppressive place on the planet?

(the North Koreans and Saudis would likely take issue with that, for openers.)

And why, precisely, can you NOT let this go?

Why ARE you doing a Joe McCarthy/HUAC imitation in this thread?

(on edit)

Obviously, you can answer all that once you get out of the Babble penalty box.

Thanks Maysie!

We'd ALL have been "Left Behind!"

Sven is the Messiah?

My understanding is that Sven is closer to Cuba than most of us this week.