Stand up together for Libby Davies!

You are being a tad ridicules. You can criticize a party and not hate it. You can criticize a party and still vote for them. That's the beauty of a democracy (I'll let you know when we have one!)

`...sparked outrage across the country...`

Is he referring to the fact that Davies criticized Israel or that Davies is under the gun for doing so

Why does Canada need a 24 hour neocon cheerleading TV network...Watching that video,I now see why these right-wing nuts believe that the media has turned into a liberal marxist propaganda machine ***rolling eyes and turning circles with my fingers around my ear and whistling***

To be fair, Life, Murray wrote that before those interviews.  And I agree with you that Jack stood up for her on those interview shows.  I realize that he still said that she made a mistake, and I don't agree with him about that, but whatever, at least he told them that she's not going anywhere.

No Yards, under this kind of media assault, it's understandable that Libby's flying under the radar right now.  But it's still important for her allies to show her lots of support, both as encouragement to her directly, and by writing to Layton and telling him you support her.

I'm betting that Layton got lots of emails over the past 24 hours from NDP supporters who don't like seeing what's happening to Libby right now.  And I wouldn't be surprised if that had at least something to do with his decision to stand up to her detractors in today's news cycle.

Good grief, Unionist, you can't name one person in the NDP who is saying "get rid of her - cut our losses".  Not one.

What they are probably saying is "there but for the grace of the goddess, go I".  In this hyper-partisan environment, no-one knows what little thing they say that is going to make them the focus of a right-wing feeding frenzy that you CANNOT win.

It's a case of don't feed the trolls.  All the signals say to me that they have no intention of seeing her removed or lynched.

The problem with Libby Davies is she made a gaffe.  When one tells the truth that shouldn't be mentioned, that is a gaffe.

I can only imagine from a Palestinian perspective that if Israeli soldiers kicked my family out of a home in 1948, the occupation would have started around the same time.

One must also remember that supporters of the current pro-apartheid state of Israel don't refer to 1967 as a being a new occupation date in the West Bank and Gaza.  These territories are not occupied; they are disputed.  Therefore, the Israeli occupation doesn't exist.

Name me one politician who hasn't put his or her foot in his mouth at some time or other... the insincere outrage and hypocritical indignation will in time pass as new issues spring forward to capture our ever shorter attention span.

Not focusing on Libby Davies recent comments, I can't figure out any benefit of the NDP becoming more pro-Israeli rather than being balanced on the Middle East.  Electorally, I don't see the masses in Canada's Jewish communities waiting to vote for the NDP.  For example, I don't see the riding of Thornhill going to the NDP anytime soon.  The problem for the NDP in places like Toronto, is not the Jewish vote, but the inability of the NDP to break out of the downtown core.  What could the NDP do for people living in Scarborough, Etobicoke, and North York?  Yes, Jewish Canadians live in North York along Bathurst Street.  However, there are Muslim and Arab Canadians who live throughout Toronto.  They are potential supporters of the NDP--only if the NDP espouses a balanced Middle East policy and deals with suburban priorities.

If this mugging of Libby Davies goes on much longer, those moderate Liberals who support a coalition with the NDP are going to have to speak up in her defense, or the chalice will be poisoned.

I'm outraged by it. And,

 I'LL NEVER VOTE LIBERAL EVER AGAIN! In fact, I'll vote AGAINST them by voting NDP just to spite the pro-Israeli, Bay Street Liber-Tory Party™ in power and sharing power since waaaaay before 1948.

Libby is a Zionist?

ha ha. An unintended ambush? Are people expected to believe such things?

ottawaobserver wrote:

Good grief, Unionist, you can't name one person in the NDP who is saying "get rid of her - cut our losses".  Not one.

What they are probably saying is "there but for the grace of the goddess, go I".  In this hyper-partisan environment, no-one knows what little thing they say that is going to make them the focus of a right-wing feeding frenzy that you CANNOT win.

It's a case of don't feed the trolls.  All the signals say to me that they have no intention of seeing her removed or lynched.

How about Mulcair? Seems to me he's not that hyped about showing Libby any understanding?

One of the things that's interesting on that video is this exchange, where Libby makes it crystal clear that she is speaking for herself and not for the NDP or any political party.  In fact, she goes out of her way to say that politically she hasn't gone as far as to call for BDS, and that it is only personally that she supports it, and she simply wants there to be space opened in the political arena for people to discuss it. 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with what she's said.  Nothing at all.

Quote:

Katz: "But you are supporting a boycott of Israel, and divestment..."

Davies: "No, I haven't actually even gone that far.  I mean, I...you've got to understand that I'm probably the strongest supporter in Parliament...there is virtually no information in the political arena, or understanding of the BDS movement.  People are actually afraid to speak out about this issue.  So we have to understand that the political reality in Canada is I think worse than many other countries, where elected people who are sympathetic are actually afraid to speak out.  So the whole notion of BDS, I mean, I'm very excited that it's grown so much in, sort of, the civil society, but in terms of the political arena, it's not even being debated."

Katz: "But, so you are not necessarily for BDS, but you're for the movement?"

Davies: "Yeah, I support what's going on, and we've got to somehow get it into the political arena, but it's going to take a lot of work..."

Katz: "But you don't necessarily support the BDS."

Davies: "I think, yeah, personally I do, but it's not in the political arena."

Katz: "If it were in the political arena you would..."

Davies: "You know what, I really don't...I'm not happy with your questions.  Like, don't pin it all on me.

Katz: "I'm sorry, I'm just trying to get where you stand on this."

Davies: "Well, where I stand is, is that, somehow we have to make this issue something that can be properly debated in the political arena, because it's not, because of fear, because of self-censorship.  So what I've been trying to do is work within the Parliamentary arena, but also within the community to try and open up that space.  I mean, if I'm one of the people who is, sort of, most out there, because most of my colleagues are not.  So it's a matter of, I think, trying to bring those ideas and education about even what BDS is, because a lot of people don't really understand that, into the political arena.  If we could do that, I think that would be a very good step forward."

Skinny Dipper wrote:

Electorally, I don't see the masses in Canada's Jewish communities waiting to vote for the NDP.  For example, I don't see the riding of Thornhill going to the NDP anytime soon.  The problem for the NDP in places like Toronto, is not the Jewish vote, but the inability of the NDP to break out of the downtown core.  What could the NDP do for people living in Scarborough, Etobicoke, and North York?

The Jewish vote is really peanuts. But the pro-Zionist vote is a huge deep and wide river in Canada: precisely in all those places where few Jews live.

[Hint: Israelis are white, or at least thats the limited if not distorted cultural understanding white Canadians have of Israelis. And they are on "our side". They aren't Arabs. Arabs bad.]

That said non-Jews in the NDP who give Israel a lot of room, much more than I would- like Jack Layton for example- do so somewhat independently of any 'utilitarian pandering'. Very parallel to diffferences in degree, running the whole gamut, of support/criticism of Israel among progressive Jews.

Sorry Unionist. But I'd bet you a lot that even privately Libby would say that while what she said was true, she was clearly mistaken to express it as she did. That she says what she says not because she is cowed by anyone- just realistic about what is achievable in the short term.

KenS wrote:

Bets on that Cueball?

Ok. Davies will lose her position or resign as deputy leader and FF critic sometime within the next 6 months. If not so, I will refrain from posting for a month. If so, you will do the same.

Michelle]</p> <p>One of the things that's interesting on that video is this exchange, where Libby makes it crystal clear that she is speaking for herself and not for the NDP or any political party.  In fact, she goes out of her way to say that politically she hasn't gone as far as to call for BDS, and that it is only personally that she supports it, and she simply wants there to be space opened in the political arena for people to discuss it. </p> <p>There is absolutely nothing wrong with what she's said.  Nothing at all.</p> <p>[quote wrote:

Katz: "But you are supporting a boycott of Israel, and divestment..."

Davies: "No, I haven't actually even gone that far.  I mean, I...you've got to understand that I'm probably the strongest supporter in Parliament...there is virtually no information in the political arena, or understanding of the BDS movement.  People are actually afraid to speak out about this issue.  So we have to understand that the political reality in Canada is I think worse than many other countries, where elected people who are sympathetic are actually afraid to speak out.  So the whole notion of BDS, I mean, I'm very excited that it's grown so much in, sort of, the civil society, but in terms of the political arena, it's not even being debated."

Katz: "But, so you are not necessarily for BDS, but you're for the movement?"

Davies: "Yeah, I support what's going on, and we've got to somehow get it into the political arena, but it's going to take a lot of work..."

Katz: "But you don't necessarily support the BDS."

Davies: "I think, yeah, personally I do, but it's not in the political arena."

Katz: "If it were in the political arena you would..."

Davies: "You know what, I really don't...I'm not happy with your questions.  Like, don't pin it all on me.

Katz: "I'm sorry, I'm just trying to get where you stand on this."

Davies: "Well, where I stand is, is that, somehow we have to make this issue something that can be properly debated in the political arena, because it's not, because of fear, because of self-censorship.  So what I've been trying to do is work within the Parliamentary arena, but also within the community to try and open up that space.  I mean, if I'm one of the people who is, sort of, most out there, because most of my colleagues are not.  So it's a matter of, I think, trying to bring those ideas and education about even what BDS is, because a lot of people don't really understand that, into the political arena.  If we could do that, I think that would be a very good step forward."

..at first i was willing to accept that libby inadvertently said something in error. now i see that she said nothing wrong. i also see why she would be considered by some to be dangerous.

Cueball wrote:

Ok. Davies will lose her position or resign as deputy leader and FF critic sometime within the next 6 months. If not so, I will refrain from posting for a month. If so, you will do the same.

Thats REAL different than your original challenge- which doubts she'll still be in the NDP.

Even lowering the bar a lot to she'll be demoted- I'd think about making a wager. But I already knew that I can't know whats going on in Caucus- like OO I see no indication her position is threatened. But of course I don't know that for sure.

At any rate, I was calling ridiculous your challenge according to the original goalposts you set- questioning whether she'd be long in the NDP. Moving the goalposts to she'll be demoted sometime in the next 6 months is ridiculous.

Excuse me mister hair splitter. I didn't use the correct exact words. There is no appreciable pro-Zionist vote in the sense of people who attach a top priority to the issue. But among "white Canadians" there is strong support for Israel. Nor does it matter one bit that in reality Iranians are just as "white" as Israelis.

The point is that if people are looking for pandering, looking for pandering to Jews is the wrong rock.

And I know a lot of progressive Jews who think like Mulcair [and Pat Martin]. They arent aggressive about it, but they aren't politicians either. Again, the point is that conflicted views about Israel, what is in my terms very misplaced sympathy, is a substantial stream among progressive Jews and non-Jews alike, and it runs deeper than any utilitarian need to pander. Nor is it the same people who sympathise with interventionist projects like Afghanistan... more often than not it will be people implaccably and unqualified opposed to such intervention. But Israel is different: "Israel shouldnt be doing anything like what they did in Gaza, I agree thats WAY beyond the pale, but you know....."