Selling Avon

28 posts / 0 new

Mon, 2010-06-14 13:25

Michelle

Selling Avon

I'm starting to see lots of ads for Avon happening again on TV. In the one we just saw, all these professional-looking women talked about the "financial freedom" they have selling the stuff, and how in this financial downturn it's so great to be able to have security.

They have to be freakin' kidding. Here's the deal. No matter how much you sell, you can't live off selling Avon. You just can't. And when you break down the hourly earnings (time put in vs. profit), it's downright disgusting.

I got sucked into doing this in my very early 20's. Thought it might be a nice side thing to do while I was working a minimum wage job. What a sucker I was - I made way more at my minimum wage job than I ever could have selling Avon. I think I even took a loss once I was done buying their catalogues and samples to give to my friends and family.

It's been a long time since I sold it, so I don't know what the percentages are, but here's a rough idea of how it works. You buy a starter kit (ah, the old, you-have-to-pay-us-in-order-to-work thing). You also buy those little catalogues. You get people to order stuff from you from the catalogue and they pay you catalogue prices. Then you order the stuff from Avon, and Avon sells it to you at a set discount from the retail catalogue price, depending on the amount you sell.

I don't know what the percentages are anymore, but they say that you get a 40% discount during your first month, which is a "special rate". (And I remember from when I sold it that the "regular" rate was nothing near 40% unless you sold some outrageous amount of product).

But let's just pretend that every month is like the first month. You would have to sell $5,000 worth of Skin-So-Soft and deodorant and eyeliner EVERY MONTH in order to earn $2,000. They charge you for the catalogues (imagine how many catalogues you'd have to order in order to attract $5,000 in retail sales), they charge you for samples (again, imagine how many you'd have to order in order to get people to buy lipstick and anything scented from you). Which cuts directly into that gross amount.

Now, let's talk about the work involved in selling $5,000 worth of product. Seriously, selling even $500 worth of product is not just something you can do by giving friends and family the catalogues. The amount of time you'd spend pounding the pavement to try and sell stuff means you get paid something like a buck an hour, maybe.

It seems they also have one of those Amway-esque schemes where if you sign associates below you, you become a "Leader" and then you make more profits. I have no idea how that works, but I'm betting it involves exploiting people you trick into believing they can have "financial security and freedom" by selling their friends Avon.

It's a scam, folks. If they were just honest and told you to do it for fun and you might be able to make enough to buy a bit of make-up, that would be one thing. But telling women they can get financial freedom from Avon if they work hard enough is a message that really pisses me off.

Mon, 2010-06-14 13:32

Caissa

I took a quick look at their website and it seems to be difficult to ferret out this information. When you try to register as an agent, one of the questions asks for the name of the rep who referred you.

It;s also interesting that their tagline is "the company for women".

Ms. c. went to a tupperware party a few months ago. i don't believe the proprietor is getting rich on that eaither.

Mon, 2010-06-14 13:35

Michelle

I think probably all of these home sales schemes are the same. Promise you financial independence, but what you get is enough to maybe buy you an eyeliner, or a Tupperware dish.

Mon, 2010-06-14 13:36

Bacchus

None of those you get rich on. My first wife used to do partylights which is the same thing but for candles. There are some who can make money at it and have it as a career but they are ALWAYS someone who has an edge (like selling to a business on a regular basis). Mrs Bacchus tried the Avon thing a few years ago, as did other friends but all abandoned it within a month or two

Mon, 2010-06-14 18:37

Michelle

Exactly. If you've ever known any woman who has been able to support herself on her earnings, I'd like to know about it. I've never met anyone yet, and I've met an awful lot of women who sell Avon and Partylite and other stuff like that.

Mon, 2010-06-14 19:58

Boom Boom

Back in the 60s and before I left home to fend for myself, my mother and her friends hosted a lingerie sales club at home. Gah.

Mon, 2010-06-14 21:34

Bacchus

Could have been worse boom boom, they have them for sex toys too

Tue, 2010-06-15 01:28

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

My mother has been selling Avon for nearly 30 years. There was a point in time where she was running 4 territories and made okay money at it - during one lean time when my father was off work for medical reasons, it kept us fed, but not well fed. But it's true that if you do it long enough you can build a base of regular clientele who buy enough to make it somewhat worthwhile.

Tue, 2010-06-15 13:59

Jabberwock

As well, you have to order something from every catalogue, so if you don't sell anything, you end up buying something for yourself just to stay an agent. Ridiculous.

And it is particularly enraging it looks like they are targeting women who are more economically vulnerable. Someone earning a good paycheck is unlikely to be willing to spend hours doing Avon on the side.

Tue, 2010-06-15 20:53

#10

Tommy_Paine

Similarly, my first wife tried tupperware and Avon also. I got to see how it works.

It's really a kind of pyramid scheme that skirts the law because merchandise is involved.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned AMWAY. Stayed clear of those creeps, at least.

Tue, 2010-06-15 21:17

#11

Michelle

Absolutely, Jabberwock. I tried it when I was making minimum wage and simply lost money I couldn't afford. I sure wouldn't bother now.

Tue, 2010-06-15 21:20

#12

Michelle

Interesting, Timebandit. I'm surprised to hear that. I can't imagine how anyone could feed a family on money made from Avon unless you're constantly selling all the time. But then, I am not sure how the profits work when you sign people on below you on the pyramid.

Fri, 2010-06-18 19:21

#13

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

My mother wasn't a signer-upper - to my knowledge, she never did seek other people, but was a team leader for a while and was offered the regional manager position (she turned it down). She certainly was selling all the time - she treated it like a full-time job. It's not especially high-paying, but so far as I know you don't get more money by signing other people up - and unlike Mary Kay, you don't have to carry an inventory. She mostly sells for a little extra money and to get out and about and see people.

Fri, 2010-06-18 19:30

#14

Michelle

Ah, okay. Interesting. The thing is, though, you have to push something like $5,000 of product per month to earn $2,000 gross (which, after business costs and putting money aside for taxes is just barely scraping by.

Seems to me like that would take a lot more than full time hours to do, that's all.

Fri, 2010-06-18 19:43

#15

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

Well, I did say it kept us in groceries for a short while, but I didn't say it paid all the bills... ;-) That was a very lean period for us.

My mother is a pretty high volume seller (top sales in her region at one point, still makes "President's Club" every year), and at one time pretty much did work full time hours, although the flexibility suited her. And as I said, if you do it for a LONG TIME, you can cultivate some clients who do purchase a lot. She has some customers who buy all kinds of gifts and all their cosmetics and bath and even some clothing and jewellery and it adds up. Personally, I wouldn't be inclined, but there are some out there. She also does stuff like leaves brochures in the lounge of a couple of seniors' complexes where she already has customers. Now that she's pushing 70, she doesn't push it as hard and looks at it as supplemental income.

I don't think Avon was promoting itself as a "career" back when she started selling in the mid to late '70s. More like something a housewife could do for extra money, which is what she took it on as. She didn't want to work set hours for low wage.

Fri, 2010-06-18 21:57

#16

Bacchus

If you sign up people under you, you get a cut if their sales, as you do if they sign people up under them, and so on down the line

Fri, 2010-06-18 22:07

#17

Michelle

Oh yeah, that's right! Don't territory leaders / team leaders order all the AVON product for all the sellers and then the sellers pick it up from their territory and team leaders? So they buy it from Avon for a really cheap price, the sellers then get it from the leaders for a higher price, etc. I remember picking up my Avon orders from my team or territory leader - I don't think I got it shipped directly from Avon.

So in that case, if team leaders manage to get 100 salespeople under them who only sell enough to earn, say, 15% off, then doesn't the team leader make more than if the salespeople under them sell way more and get 45-50% off? So wouldn't there be more incentive for team leaders to get a lot of people under them and hope they can only sell small amounts than for them to get rising stars who sell larger amounts?

Fri, 2010-06-18 23:56

#18

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

No, my mother gets boxes delivered to her door, always has, and they do not go through her team leader. Never have. Nor has she had stuff go through her when she was a team leader. Orders are submitted directly to Avon Canada online, not through the team leader. Nor does her team leader get a cut of her sales. You do get paid a little more for handling a team, making sure orders are in on time, assisting new reps, etc. Teams are not as high as 100 people, either. Like, maybe 10 or so. 100 would be totally unmanageable. And then there's a district manager over the team leaders.

Either the system has gone through a radical change in the last couple of months or Avon Canada is different than in the US.

Sat, 2010-06-19 00:51

#19

Michelle

Ah, okay. Well, don't forget, I did this years ago. I do remember picking up product from my team leader, but maybe that was a temporary thing, or they just did that for the first order or something. I didn't stick with it for long. :)

Sat, 2010-06-19 01:48

#20

Bacchus

Mrs Bacchus did it 3 years ago and got her stuff from the team leader.

Sat, 2010-06-19 14:40

#21

Refuge

I was a Regal rep when I was in college but I never sold to anyone, I just became a rep so I could buy stuff I wanted cheaper as the warehouse / store which was right around the corner from my house. It worked well that way but I remember going through similar calculations (if I remember correctly the more you ordered on a regular basis the more of a discount you got) and it was just as hard to make money with them.

Sun, 2010-06-20 14:54

#22

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

Bacchus wrote:

Mrs Bacchus did it 3 years ago and got her stuff from the team leader.

That's really odd. When my mother's away, she has often had me go to her place and sign for the shipment. The delivery guy is from a local shipping company that is on contract to drop off the boxes. Usually she gets four or five boxes, it's almost always the same guy. No connection to the team leader. Nor did she distribute to other reps when she was a team leader. Maybe different divisions have slightly different systems?

Sun, 2010-06-20 21:43

#23

Michelle

Refuge, I did the same thing with Regal! :) I found them a lot easier though. At least you just went there and picked up the stuff when you wanted to. None of this bullshit about only ordering once a month, not being able to miss a month, etc.

Mon, 2010-06-21 00:08

#24

Bacchus

Timebandit wrote:

Bacchus wrote:

Mrs Bacchus did it 3 years ago and got her stuff from the team leader.

That's really odd. When my mother's away, she has often had me go to her place and sign for the shipment. The delivery guy is from a local shipping company that is on contract to drop off the boxes. Usually she gets four or five boxes, it's almost always the same guy. No connection to the team leader. Nor did she distribute to other reps when she was a team leader. Maybe different divisions have slightly different systems?

Maybe you were in a more rural area? In the urban areas its about pyramid schemes. When Mrs Bacchus attended the big Avon convention, there was big pushes for this and classes on how to expand your little empire. And its been that way for years as my first wife did it too and that was 15yrs ago.

Not as bad as Amway though, I remember friends trying to suck me into that well over 30yrs ago

Mon, 2010-06-21 00:10

#25

Michelle

Yeah, Amway was the one I didn't get sucked into, thanks to my older and more savvy boyfriend at the time who told me before I went to the info session that it was a bunch of baloney. I still went to the info session, but didn't bite.

Mon, 2010-06-21 00:16

#26

Bacchus

I did too, just for the free snacks, but it was diffulcult to get out of the meeting without a commitment. (actually had the same problem at a 'mens meeting' for some group called stirling which was very cult like)

Mon, 2010-06-21 20:17

#27

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

Bacchus wrote:

Timebandit wrote:

Bacchus wrote:

Mrs Bacchus did it 3 years ago and got her stuff from the team leader.

That's really odd. When my mother's away, she has often had me go to her place and sign for the shipment. The delivery guy is from a local shipping company that is on contract to drop off the boxes. Usually she gets four or five boxes, it's almost always the same guy. No connection to the team leader. Nor did she distribute to other reps when she was a team leader. Maybe different divisions have slightly different systems?

Maybe you were in a more rural area? In the urban areas its about pyramid schemes. When Mrs Bacchus attended the big Avon convention, there was big pushes for this and classes on how to expand your little empire. And its been that way for years as my first wife did it too and that was 15yrs ago.

Not as bad as Amway though, I remember friends trying to suck me into that well over 30yrs ago

I don't think, even as a Torontonian, you can class a city of about 200,000 as especially rural. Or maybe you could... ;-)

I chatted with my mother about this last night -- apparently, there are two ways to sign up with Avon. They`ve moved to a more MLM style approach where you get something like a 1% bonus from people who sign up through you, and some will go that route. However, you can sign up directly and opt out of signing other people up or signing up through another rep if you want to. All orders, though, go in online now, not through a sales leader. Back when my mom was a team leader, there was no bonus (other than an occasional freebie and a thank you certificate), but once they started adding those elements she opted out. So it seems there is some flexibility to the system.

Mon, 2010-06-21 20:28

#28

Bacchus

Hmm a good thing though mrs Bacchus doesnt remember being given that option so it might depend on who signs you up ;o)