Protest police state tactics in Toronto TONIGHT (Mon. June 28)

78 posts / 0 new

Tue, 2010-06-29 05:57

E.Tamaran

Papal Bull wrote:

writer wrote:

At Queen and University, someone was pulled out of the group. We stopped. Those of us closest to the back started to say, "Let him go!" Other demonstrators further along heard us, and came back.

We remained there, repeating the demand.

And they let him go.

Yeah, I was right in the middle of the group. It must have been something for the police to see several thousand people turn their gaze on them.

Either way, it was spectacular. It was energizing. I of course bumped into OG and the goatlings. I watched Michelle's FB updates fairly closely! I also spoke with quite a few people were there on the weekend and dealt with some serious police shit.

But I have to say, the entire time...It was weird. I've never looked at a cop and only seen a cop. I always used to see a working person. I'd look around and see cops everywhere. Cordoning it off. When we were at City Hall, I was in another world. I'd look around and see glass and big blue fences holding us in. Cops on all sides. When we got to Queen's Park, it was worse. I saw a line of cops on the foot of the legislature. I looked back and saw them surrounding us to the west and the south. I couldn't see east. I just suddenly felt tense. I eventually relaxed when I thought 'well, if they've not started shit yet...they won't.' But still. I didn't see a working person wearing a uniform. I just saw a uniform. Someone. Something. Something that was being paid to be out there to, at the crackle of a radio, turn a baton on me. Something out there to hurt my friends. To hurt my family. It felt like all the cordial encounters with police in the past had melted away. It was just cops. This sound stupid and potentially put-down-ish, but as a white straight (and ostensibly to my grandma - good catholic) male...I'd never felt so vulnerable and threatened before. I'd never looked at a cop and thought 'that person is out to hurt me'. See the faces all blend together.

What really struck home for me was seeing some of the same cops that were on videos this weekend committing crimes and still walking free. What really struck me was a cop and her buddies sitting at Union joking about what they did this weekend. No remorse. Nothing.

God help us.

Yes, you're all starting to really see why others refer to them as pigs. They're not there to help you; they are there to hurt you, to keep you in line. Seriously, after all the pig violence, who here would have been the least bit sorry if things had happened to the pigs?

Tue, 2010-06-29 07:02

#53

1weasel

I'm making no excuse for Chief Blair's actions or comments, but the main difference between the weekend and Monday, to me, is who was in charge. Authority on the weekend was ultimately under RCMP Chief Superintendent Alphonse MacNeil ,head of the ISU. MacNeil's previous gig appears to have been running the air marshalls program on domestic, transboder and international flights.

Tue, 2010-06-29 07:16

#54

observer521

On an individual level, its about POWER. And power corrupts humans, very easily.

Looking closely at the faces of the police at that peace rally against police tactics, some were very bitter. They were gritting their teeth.

The "police state" chant, some of them were mocking it...saying..."yeah yeah me too lets end the police state so I can go home..." Some were mocking protestors who asked why they didn't have name-tages, etc.

The reality is that many/some police do have a personal dislike and contempt for protestors and other deviant hippie types who don't follow orders, and it seemed to come unglued on the weekend. They don't like those kind of people, and certainly aren't going to risk their own safety to protect the "animals from the animals". That is probably why a senior Toronto police commander told me I should have arrested the vandals. Its an ugly truth, but that appears to be the ugly reality, in many cases.

Tue, 2010-06-29 07:56

#55

observer521

The Yonge St business Assoc on CTV said that only 40 businesses were damaged, and his main concern was loss of business for 800 businesses over the entire week.

He also said the business owners had 2 issues:

1) Why were there no police anywhere on Yonge at any time? (this is a fact I have said since hour one, there was literally, literally, not one single cop on Yonge before, during, or after the vandals were there. Just a few 90 lb kids in black smashing things, being filmed by a hundred people, then no police for the rest of the night).

2) compensation

So probably the business owners are the ones who will expose the bald-faced lies by the police commanders. The fact is, that the police commanders abandoned Yonge St on purpose. Watch the videos, and you see a few skinny pale kids in black smashing windows, being filmed by a bunch of TV people.

Again, no police anywhere on Yonge, from top to bottom. And they were not there for the rest of the night either. The investigation into this, will expose what the police did, and perhaps why they did it.

Its the Yonge St merchants who are the victims of the police negligence.

The sign at Steve's Music was MELTED by the fire that was ALLOWED TO BURN on police orders for an eternity. Whoever in the police ordered the firetrucks to stay away, could have caused Steves Music to burn to the ground, which could have burnt the block down. The horrible truth is that some maniac in the police department head office, was prepared to let Queen St burn to the ground if some wackjob torched a store. Did the police commanders think they were in Bagdad? This is the reality of the situation. Some police commander, one assumes it was #1, was prepared to allow a part of Queen St West to burn to the ground, and not send in a firetruck.

Guess who would get the blame for that? Next time, the police would be given Martial Law type powers, to create a military style curfew.

Notice how the peaceful protest on Monday against the police tactics, with lots of normal police present, caused no damage whatsoever to anyone. Thousands of protestors of police violence, were able to walk into City Hall through the Jazz Fest entrance which was about 10 FEET WIDE, and surrounded by booths selling trinkets, without anyone even bumping over a trinket from a table. Its was a couple thousands protestors in a china shop, with bicycles, and didn't break a piece of china. That is a fact.

Something very sick happened with the police powers over the weekend. It was right on the edge of city blocks going up in flames, by ONE crazy person torching a store, and it being allowed to burn to the ground on the pretext Toronto became Bagdad, due to "protestors"...which was a lie, a brazen lie by someone at the top in the police command center. The facts show that someone wanted a catastrophe to happen, and that would give them a Martial Law type curfew power next time.

This is the factual reality of the situation, when you look at what happened objectively. If you really think about all the angles of this, this is some scary shit. Allowing a fire to spread without calling in firetrucks, claiming it was started by "dangerous radicals", so then martial powers need to be given to the police...

Thank goodness Torontonians came out Monday to show the lies being told by the police commanders. Something has gone terribly wrong here, and the politicos are NOT going to fix it, they won't even mildly criticize the police, they can't go against police power in anyway, or their career is over.

Tue, 2010-06-29 08:12

#56

Boom Boom

1weasel wrote:

I'm making no excuse for Chief Blair's actions or comments, but the main difference between the weekend and Monday, to me, is who was in charge. Authority on the weekend was ultimately under RCMP Chief Superintendent Alphonse MacNeil ,head of the ISU. MacNeil's previous gig appears to have been running the air marshalls program on domestic, transboder and international flights.

I can't remember if this is the same guy or not, but the CBC's Susan Ormiston interviewed the guy responsible for security of the entire G8/G20 operation at the fortress/bunker in Barrie, Ontario. His explanation was basically that all the cops we saw at the protests had the behind the scenes safety and transport back and forth of the world leaders and their entourage in the back of their minds. While these protests were going on, helicopters were busy transporting these world poobahs back and forth not far from the protests themselves, and keeping the security perimeter secure was their overall priority. Sounds like a lame excuse to treat the citizens of Toronto so badly. That clip must be on the CBC website by now.

Tue, 2010-06-29 08:21

#57

Unionist

Yes, Boom Boom, that was MacNeil - I saw the same interview. He was a pretty sinister character.

[url=http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/News/TV%20Shows/The%20National/ID=1532663313]Here's the link.[/url]

Tue, 2010-06-29 08:26

#58

observer521

I don't know about that, Bill Blair was in charge of this city. The question will be who made the horrible, idiotic police plan, and who was giving the orders all weekend? Either they were an evil genius out to create vandalism and riots and chaos and violence, or they were utterly negligent and incompentent.

Its very interesting to see how many who were not on the streets believe the media-spin, but those who were on the streets and saw what happened see reality. That includes journalists, those who were there, saw what happened, and reported it as such. Those other journo's who just watched TV, generally believe the propaganda. Like Rex Murphy, the guy's comments were completely idiotic. If ole Rex would have been down on Yonge St for 5 hrs and not seen a cop, with some punks running around, he might have been scratching his head wondering what was really happening.

Trying to turn a couple dozen 90 lb kids into the a threat 100x worse than the Hells Angels, is pretty brazen Big Lie, but many are believing it. The fact is that normal police, could have put down the entire black-box crew, very easily. If the Hells Angels walked down Yonge St, and robbed 40 stores, who would get the blame?

But that RCMP guy, on TV he appeared to be quite clueless. My gut feeling tells me that someone from their Barrie command center was directing some of the idiotic and insane riot-police attacks by watching a video screen. It was so out of touch with the reality, something was insane about it. When they lined up on College like they were facing WWIII, it was beyond laughable, but not funny. Who could call up 5 lines deep of riot police, for a few hundred people in short-pants? No sane assessment of the situation would result in that.

Just iimagine the ETF and actual firepower that must have been around the corner somewhere. Next time perhaps they will deploy crowd-tasers from remote controlled drone-airplanes.

1weasel wrote:

I'm making no excuse for Chief Blair's actions or comments, but the main difference between the weekend and Monday, to me, is who was in charge. Authority on the weekend was ultimately under RCMP Chief Superintendent Alphonse MacNeil ,head of the ISU. MacNeil's previous gig appears to have been running the air marshalls program on domestic, transboder and international flights.

Tue, 2010-06-29 09:52

#59

takeitslowly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcXhEd_mDt4

Toronto Police and rape threats at the detention centre.

Tue, 2010-06-29 10:33

#60

ElizaQ

So spent the weekend watch the tube and trying not to be concerned about the friends I knew were there.

Everyone is a-okay, most of the stories are similar to ones already posted. So won't repeat.

One friend was arrested, sort of. Sort of? What do you mean by that?

Anyways here's my addition to tales because I haven't read this written about yet.

So friend was protesting all weekend and on Sunday afternoon/evening found themselves caught up in the Sunday night, pouring rain jail at Queen and Spadina. Stood/sat for the 4 or so hours and watched as several hundred people got picked off and carted away. No one could leave, no one could do nothing except watch as people were taken. If you spoke up about this happening you were taken. Rinse, repeat for hours. Said a good number of people just happened to be on the street or sidewalk, maybe watching, maybe actually trying to get somewhere and they were caught too. Didn't matter whatsoever. Once you were in you couldn't get out. (Way to encourage crowds to disperse idiots, "get out of here, oh sorry you can't ha ha." ) Age range of the crowd was teenagers to many older folks, like the couple in their mid-80s that my friend stood by. Said at least one positive thing were that people respected the older people and helped them to stand out of the rain in the few places that had some coverage and generally helped keep these folks safe and dry as possible.

Anyways near the end some cop gets up because, hey after several hours of being soaked to the bone many, many people were showing signs of hypothermia. Since the weather wasn't bad when the thing started many were not dressed for the it at all. Summer t-shirts and shorts etc etc . Said that many people were just shivering uncontrollably. It was really obvious. So cop gets up and says (summarized) "I've been sitting here watching you guys and see that many are showing signs of hypothermia so I convinced my boss to bring in some buses, they will be heated. " Crowd by this point just wants some warmth and many cheer. By this time things were so screwed and no one knew really why they were being kept or how long it was going to continue (you couldn't ask anything because it risked being hauled off), figured that their fate was going to be the same as the hundreds that have already been taken, they just wanted to be fricken warm at least. At least that's the feeling my friend got.

So then maybe another hour goes by and no buses for whatever reason. Then cop stands up, might have been the same guy who announced the bus thing. Friend said by this time he didn't care, no one seemed to care. By this time the situation was so stupid and ridiculous that some of the cops and crowd were joking with each other in the dark black humor way. Leader cop then says (summarized) "You are all under arrest for breach of peace (or something like that) but you are free to go without any charges. " Then the cops parted and people just started scattering, glad to finally get out of there.

At this point my friend was so glad too that it wasn't until they got somewhere warm that they contemplated the meaning and utter stupidity of the cops last statement. They said by that time there were around 150 people in the crowd. So does that mean that the cops are counting those numbers in the arrest count? If so why? Seriously, these weren't arrests except in word usage only. Some save face sorta of crap maybe but regardless totally ridiculous and just messed up. Not that what happened all over the place this weekend wasn't messed up. This part just adds to what is already being talked about.

Tue, 2010-06-29 11:21

#61

observer521

Actually, there is probably one error in the quote below. I was right at the front of that march at that time, and in fact the marchers themselves, in a fascinating sense of spontaneous-ish group wisdom, went east toward Yonge. The police did not block going west on Queen. The police had new orders to lay-off. Personally, I felt the sense that some police were hoping it went sour, as then they could say...SEE WE LAID-OFF AND THOSE ANIMALS WENT BERSERK.

It could have gone up Yonge, but did not. And going into City Hall was fairly spontaneous, it weirdly snaked through the Jazz Fest booth, which was a few feet wide. The police were panicking, but the crowd was calm.

On the way back, personally I was concerned it would go down Queen, not because of trouble, but out of sympathy for those Queen businesses, they have had enough. Perhaps others felt the same, and the march turned north to Queens Park, which was the correct place to go. Dalton started it with their secret law, which may end their careers in disgrace.

Let me say this, at the front of that walk, no one was "really" running it. There were a few folks with the green tape, but they were feeling it out as it went, as was everyone else. It was an fascinating feeling, to watch a "crowd" with no leader actually make very wise calm decisions. Like a real democracy.

There was no planning, no police liasons, no nothing. Just people calmly walking and sending the police the message to not attack demonstrators. Personally, I have never seen a group of such diverse people, just feel things out like that. There were guys in business suits at the front, as well as the usual mix of everyone.

That march/walk was the real deal.

It was wise to walk down University, it was wise to zip into City Hall even though it was an absurd route to walk through the tiny Jazz Fest area, but somehow it worked out. And it was wise to end at Queens Park without any problems, and with minimum hassle for those in the area.

It may have traumatized the police bosses on the scene, to see a large group of citizens, with no "leader" and no plan, just take a stroll though their city. That was the same ground the day before was a war-zone, created by the police tactics. The next day, police got new orders to lay-back, and not even forms lines. I heard them getting orders to just observe, and NOT form lines, etc.

I think it freaked some of the police out, as everything they had been told in their (bad) training was proven false. By not showing force, everyone stays calm. There is a profound lesson in that, and what was fascinating is there were no "famous" faces leading the march, just a bunch of people who give a shit about what was happening in their home.

Durrutix wrote:

Opposition grows to police repression in Toronto

News anchors covering Monday evening's protest against police brutality have been shocked by the size of the spontaneous outpouring of opposition to the repressive measures unleashed against the citizenry. As the march proceeded from downtown police headquarters towards the site of Sunday night's "human corral", people heading home from work joined the procession. A cacophony of car horns, stuck in traffic, rhythmically beeped in time with chants of "No police state"! Thousands of riot and mounted police, aware of the symbolism of the march, moved to block the route towards the kettling site.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/jun2010/poli-j29.shtml

Tue, 2010-06-29 14:55

#62

Michelle

I just had a major WTF moment. The NDP released a statement on SUNDAY by Jack Layton -- that's the day that the police arrested tons of bystanders and peaceful protesters at Queen and Spadina -- saying this:

Quote:

Sun 27 Jun 2010

New Democrats tonight add their voices to all those calling for an end to the violence and vandalism taking place in downtown Toronto.

Peaceful and lawful protests are important in a democracy and help raise important issues. Torontonians have often marched and protested peacefully on these streets, with virtually no serious incidents.

It is appalling to see the violence and vandalism we witnessed today. There are thousands of people in downtown Toronto frightened tonight about what is unfolding on our streets. And this deplorable incident is also driving people away from our city and hurting so many local businesses.

Criminal activity like this must be condemned, it is simply unacceptable.

New Democrats hope that order can quickly be restored, so we can return to peaceful and respectful dialogue about the critical issues - such as poverty, aid funding and climate change -- that the G20 leaders must address.

Tue, 2010-06-29 15:09

#63

Michelle

I'm hoping that the explanation is that they actually put this statement out on Saturday night, not Sunday night, and it was referring to the black bloc protests on Saturday, as opposed to completely mischaracterizing what happened on Sunday night -- and that perhaps it was put on the website on Sunday and they accidentally used the Sunday date instead of Saturday. Does anyone know when Layton made this statement, or when the NDP released this?

Tue, 2010-06-29 15:11

#64

Slumberjack

Saturday or Sunday...it figures either way.

Tue, 2010-06-29 15:13

#65

Michelle

Oh good. Thanks for clearing that up, Life.

In that case, I agree with the statement. But they should probably change the date they used on the website! :)

Tue, 2010-06-29 15:17

#66

Life, the unive...

Actually the statement was released Saturday evening. It may have been posted on Sunday, but it was making the rounds Saturday at least that is when it showed up in my rss feed. It is confusing though.

Here is a later release

Summits came at a high price but delivered little

Still pretty mamby pamby compared to the Ontario NDP and Peter Kormos though in case you haven't seen it.

http://ontariondp.com/en/ontario-ndp-statement-on-g20-summit/

Tue, 2010-06-29 15:17

#67

Slumberjack

According to the latest poll on Rabble, 37% favour some form of violent response to the current system of power. What was the latest polling number for the NDP?

Tue, 2010-06-29 15:32

#68

Life, the unive...

please...

ETA - I think they need you in the baiting thread. Could you please focus though on what is way to serious a topic for your childish antics. All I was doing was providing something for someone who raised legitimate concerns. And if you care to look I was even critical of the NDP which should have made your little heart flutter.

Tue, 2010-06-29 15:50

#69

Michelle

This is a good statement from Olivia Chow.

Quote:

Why did the federal government ignore the concerns and suggestions of the City of Toronto in holding the summit in downtown Toronto on a weekend?

What role did federal officials play in the Integrated Security Unit in policing the summit, who made the strategic decisions in how the stores were protected and how peaceful demonstrators and journalists were treated? A detailed breakdown of the billion dollar security price tag should be included.

When and how will the government compensate Toronto for the damages?

What was the process leading to the temporary suspension of basic civil liberties for the duration of the summits without public debate?

Tue, 2010-06-29 17:00

#70

Green Grouch

Good on Olivia, as usual. A great break down of a few of the core issues.

I'd add: what, if anything, could the city have done to block having it here in the first place? We're seeing a lot of retroactive excuses from Miller, but I don't understand why the city couldn't have simply denied the feds the use of the Convention Centre, CNE, or whatever city-owned facility (including the streets) that the G20 needed to function. At least they could have forced it out of the downtown and put a public negative spin on the whole useless and illegit jamboree. I know it's all hypothetical now, but I would like to know what powers the city had to push back with, and whether anyone did it. I was told that Councillor Joe Mihevc said in a meeting that the city was told after the fact that the feds decided to have it here. If true, it only adds to my belief that this whole thing was a set up to screw Reformatory-free Toronto.

Tue, 2010-06-29 17:06

#71

Ripple

Are there any people still detained?

Tue, 2010-06-29 19:50

#72

Freedom 55

"About 100 protesters have stormed into the 519 Community Centre after trying to prevent police chief Bill Blair from entering the building for a Toronto Police Pride event."

"The protesters, most identifying themselves as queer, accuse the police of making homophobic remarks to gay and lesbian detainees and segregating homosexual detainees in separate cells."

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/830211--demonstrators-storm-poli...

Tue, 2010-06-29 20:08

#73

Green Grouch

Yeah, thank gawd my community is starting to rethink our kissy face relationship with the cops

http://www.xtra.ca/blog/national/post/2010/06/29/Pride-Toronto-Toronto-Police-cocktail-party-turns-ugly.aspx

Tue, 2010-06-29 20:14

#74

writer

Ripple, yes, though they've been moved out of the temporary detention centre - and far from downtown Toronto.

Tue, 2010-06-29 21:22

#75

skdadl

Green Grouch, under the constitution, the municipalities are merely creatures of the provinces, so in some way or other this was a deal between Harper & Co and McGuinty & Co.

Tue, 2010-06-29 21:43

#76

Tommy_Paine

See. We should have voted strategically in Ontario, to keep the Conservatives out. McGinty's Liberals never would have got in bed with Harper, and secretly passed extentions to police power.

Not good ol' Progressive Dalton.

Tue, 2010-06-29 23:01

#77

observer521

As others have said, Dalton is now The Man himself. Power corrupts.

Dalton doesn't like agitators either, he snuck in several things very much like this fake non-rule about arresting people was done in secret.

Its all about power, old fashioned power, and how it corrupts, always has, always will.

Wed, 2010-06-30 04:09

#78

1weasel

Further info on our buddy Phonse. He dropped out of St. Francis Xavier to join the RCMP. As an Inspector he headed the National Traffic Program of the RCMP's Community, Contract and Aboriginal Policing Directorate. As a Superindendent, MacNeil helmed the Canadian Air Carrier Protective Program which supplied air marshalls to domestic, transborder and international flights of Canadian airlines. Another promotion led to his being appointed to command the ISU in August 2008. His immediate assistant is OPP Chief Superintendent Brian Deevy.

Based on this resume, MacNeil was probably okay to run the G8 security but the scale of the operation changed when the G20 was moved to Canada and was then dumped into downtown Toronto. His stated mandate was:

    -   Protecting heads of state, their families and G8 delegates; the
        public, including protesters; police officers, emergency personnel,
        the environment and property;

- Supporting the right to freedom of expression and peaceful assembly
in accordance with the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms;

- Strengthening partnerships with residents, community organizations,
businesses, various government agencies and other police services.

- Minimizing the environmental impact of police security operations.

Phonse has been running the ISU out of Barrie, originally with a force of 300 officers and later expanding to 600. He was also charged with raising a horde of 20,000 officers and private security. You might recall that they ran into a hitch when one of the RCMP's favorite private contractors had to be fast tracked for approval to operate in Ontario. To what extent and capacity those private security contractors were used is still unclear.

Protest police state tactics in Toronto TONIGHT (Mon. June 28)

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