G8/G20 Communiqué: Hunting the Black Bloc down like rabbits
July 7, 2010 | By Krystalline Kraus|
Looking at the movement from a Silvia Plath standpoint of "Never do the enemies job for them." Who needs enemies with comrades like these!
Issues Pages:
G8/G20 Communiqué: Hunting the Black Bloc down like rabbits
Wed, 2010-07-07 11:30
#1
Krystalline Kraus
G8/G20 Communiqué: Hunting the Black Bloc down like rabbits
Wed, 2010-07-07 11:49
#2
Careful on your comments in this thread. I have been warned by a moderator for the offence of calling a person an asshole when they were merely and quite reasonably calling for people in protests to be beaten by other protesters or at least beaten up by the cops.
And this is what I get for defending my son from oppressive language. I have been warned so many times this week I guess I will just let it go and chalk it up to the right of the right to have all the space everywhere.
Anarchy is clearly the problem not the nice police officers or the nice progressives that think it is PC to not want my son to be used as an insult. I'd tell him to fuck off but I would likely be banned for intemperate language.
Sweet! Someone just channeled Sarah Palin because I used the word "retarded". Now that's the kind of PC crap that I've come to expect and find hilarious from those who promote AnarchyTM who try to shut down any perspective other than their own that doesn't please them or to try to censor others.
Wed, 2010-07-07 11:58
#3
writer
He's been banned, kropotkin1951.
Wed, 2010-07-07 11:59
#4
Law enforcement is NOT the enemy of labour movements. Anybody who is trying to promote this idea is just trying to stir trouble and is trying to destroy the legitimacy of labour unions and the causes they fight for.
Anybody who goes to a labour rally, puts a mask on and start attacking the police or their cars is trying to crash the rally and should be dealth with approriately by the rally organizers.
Wed, 2010-07-07 12:08
#5
He's been banned, kropotkin1951.
I just saw that. I love being compared to fascists when I stick up for my non-verbal son.
Wed, 2010-07-07 12:16
#6
G8/G20 Communiqué: Hunting the Black Bloc down like rabbits
July 7, 2010 | By Krystalline Kraus|
Looking at the movement from a Silvia Plath standpoint of "Never do the enemies job for them." Who needs enemies with comrades like these!
The black bloc are not my comrades, the black bloc are an excuse for vandalism and violence, they provide cover to provocateurs and as such I see them far more as a friend of the police state than any friend to me. Their actions are used to justify violence against peaceful protesters and that discourages people from protesting. How does this help?
Wed, 2010-07-07 12:20
#7
Especially considering that the judicial system is rife with complaints of racism, classism, sexism, ableism... do we as a community who fight back against oppression every day want to hand anyone over to face the full brunt of that oppressive system with the naïve expectation that they will receive fair treatment and a fair trial?
I think that's the salient point in all this, and it effects not just "Black Block" people, but surely the sorry guys who were arrested for the RBC firebombing.
You may dissagree with thier tactics, and in some cases, if guilty they should be spending some time away, particularly with whoever bombed the RBC.
But it's hardly about public saftey, it all about politics.
You see, if your politics are in order, the law can be very accomadating and understanding in Ontario. Just ask Rahim Jaffer, Micheal Bryant and John Snobellin-- to name but recent examples.
If your politics are not in order, you don't even have to be breaking the law to be detained, arrested and abused at the hands of law enforcement.
There will be no fair trials for those whose politics are not in order.
So, dissagree with the Black Block all you like, but ratting them out will subject them to punishment well out of proportion for what they may, or may not have done.
Guilt or innocence will not be an issue before the courts, no matter the evidence.
Wed, 2010-07-07 12:23
#8
Law enforcement is NOT the enemy of labour movements. Anybody who is trying to promote this idea is just trying to stir trouble and is trying to destroy the legitimacy of labour unions and the causes they fight for.
Anybody who goes to a labour rally, puts a mask on and start attacking the police or their cars is trying to crash the rally and should be dealth with approriately by the rally organizers.
First of all you have not been on many picket lines if you think the police are there to protect the interests of workers. I have walked many a picket line and the police intimidate and harass and enforce the rules the employers get compliant judges to order.
The second part of your post is non sensical. This has never happened in any labour rallies I have been in so why do you need to bring it up. The only picket lines that I have seen violence on were ones like the Edmonton strike when Peter Puck was trying to steal the meatpackers pensions. I remember a lot of damage to buses loaded with scabs and the people throwing light bulbs full of paint at bus windshields had masks on but they were union people there to support a strike. Different tactics for different events.
The Vale Inco dispute is a perfect example of the interplay between violence and labour gains. I grew up in Sudbury and in the late 50's and early 60's is when they one the pensions and benefits that the capitalists form Brazil are now trying to take away. In the 50's Inco miners were primarily battle hardened soldiers with no appetite for being ordered about buy either the government or the rich. The miners in Sudbury had an interesting bargaining chip that began in the 50's. Prior to any potential strike the first thing that would happen would be that thousands of pounds of explosives would disappear from the underground magazines. The union never mentioned it at the bargaining table but both sides understood the backdrop.
The second part of those strikes was the union movement solidarity. I remember the trainload of salmon arriving in town during one of those bitter long strikes. The West Coast unionized fleet sent food to help the miners. The IWA sent money at the insistence of their locals.
Fast forward to 2010 and we have a nice group of workers standing on the side of a highway for a year. We have now adopted some sort of historical revisionism that the rich elite in this country in the 50's and 60's handed pensions and health care to Canadians because they wanted to not because they had to.
Wed, 2010-07-07 12:31
#9
Tommy, if some want to use Black Bloc tactics in a labour march I would politely request that they hold a separate march and not be part of ours. Read Ennir's message above, it explains a few things.
Wed, 2010-07-07 12:40
#10
Okay, Cruisin Turtle. So, what does vandalism generally get you in this province-- unconnected to a protest?
Do you think those kinds of sentences will be handed down to anyone who is accused of vandalism during the G20?
Take the politics out of it. Yeah, I don't like vandals either.
But, they are not as high on my list of disdain than those who hide hand guns, kill bike couriers or drive drunk and careless.
Wed, 2010-07-07 12:55
#11
if some want to use Black Bloc tactics in a labour march I would politely request that they hold a separate march and not be part of ours.
I was under the impression that the organizers of the "labour" march welcomed the participation of the more militant groups with the understanding that those groups would respect the character and tone of the People First march. Which is what happened.
I'd also suggest that if it's going to be a "labour" march, labour would do well to mobilize its members to actually attend it. 60-70% of the "labour" march were "unregistered participants".
Wed, 2010-07-07 14:23
#12
Labour was merely one of many organisers of the Saturday march. Five of us unionised types were there as "unregistered" because registering for a public march sounded far too restrictive and slightly suspicious. I'm sure it didn't even occur to most people to register; nor was the request well publicised. I'm still not clear why the request was made, beyond the rather odd attempt to get people to march by affiliation.
Wed, 2010-07-07 15:50
#13
Statica I found your post confusing and can't tell whose voice is speaking those incredibly nasty and vicious things. I presume that you were highlighting the depth of depravity the comments about protesters has reached but it is affecting me immensely to have to see these kinds of posts reprinted. It is like reprinting an Ann Coulter piece, it makes me wonder where the space is on the net for alternate views.
Can we please stop posting peoples urging violence within our ranks. Fuck the people that write like that they are most likely agent provocateurs.
Do we need to be bombarded with messages of violence against protesters at babble? Apparently violence against property is to be condemned but beating up people protesting against the state power is to be encouraged as progressive. I hope I don't get warned for being to harsh in my criticism of this kind of language. I thought about taking out the fuck above but then thought WTF! Why should I self censor to protect the thin skinned people who post their believe in the power of the "real progressives" to crush dissent that is not respectful enough of the police state and the property of the police states overlords..
Wed, 2010-07-07 15:52
#14
Um It sounds like the writer was present on bloody sunday
but as a paratrooper
Wed, 2010-07-07 15:55
#15
Krystalline Kraus
Here's a wonderful response I received about this issue re: how the movement treats each other regarding contentious issue since the comment I posted below reflects the sentiment that I'm trying to avoid. It was posted publically on my facebook wall but I will omit the poster's name since this is not about him but about the issue
Quote from the person I mention above whom I will not name:
[my voice ends, quote begins]
"We as the Citizens of this country have the right to take certain actions that prevent people like the Black Bloc from doing what they do. And really bud, a 300 pound cop aint going anywhere, at most they weigh at around 220-250 including the gear they have on.
Point being, IF we see the Black Bloc doin somethin stupid. Jump in there and take the Mofo down hard, even if it takes a dozen of you to do it. And if he has a weapon, let him use it. Better to paint them as idiots so there is further investigation into the incident. But really, if that was happening here in E town, you bet your ass i would go in there and knock the idiot up side the head and beat the piss outa him for the actions he was taking.
Then when the streets are cleared and the black bloc's bodies are laying there all bloodied and needing medical assistance. Deny it to them and let em die. Leave them as examples of what happens when people try and take legitimate protesters and paint them as evil criminals."
[
Wed, 2010-07-07 16:21
#16
bagkitty
I have, by and large, refrained from joining in the discussions (pile-ups?) on the Black Bloc, but all good things must come to an end...
The major problem I have with them is not so much with the smashy smashy itself, it is with the targets of the smashy smashy. I did spend some time checking out the maps of the fenced off security zone at the G20, and while it appears that the Stock Exchange itself might have been behind the fence (or at least it appears that way, google street view footage of its address mysteriously shows a nice suburban street) large sections of the so-called "Financial District" appear to be outside the perimeter... when I checked the maps to see where the torched police cars had been set ablaze, lo and behold, this self-same financial district (or at least that is how it looks on the maps). When I couple the location of these vehicles and the reports that the police were absent from the scene I am kind of left wondering why they opted to smashy smashy a few of the retail outlets rather than the steel and glass cathedrals of the financial district... Now, if they were agents provocateur acting on behalf of the "powers that be" I can see why they would be attracted to the retail outlets... if, on the other hand, they were angry anti-capitalists seeking to take direct action against the symbols of capitalism, let me just observe they are very myopic angry anti-capitalists.
Wed, 2010-07-07 16:30
#17
Um It sounds like the writer was present on bloody sunday
but as a paratrooper
I get the same feeling.
Wed, 2010-07-07 17:15
#18
I have, by and large, refrained from joining in the discussions (pile-ups?) on the Black Bloc, but all good things must come to an end...
Thanks for sharing Bagkitty. In all the days and threads since this debate started I have come the closest to defending the tactics and even I haven't gone that far. I personally would have preferred if the good thing you refer to had continued since it seems you have repeated a point made several dozen times at least. This is not a debate it is a constant drone.
Wed, 2010-07-07 17:20
#19
Cueball
Historical Note: The reference to "hunting the Black Bloc down like Rabbits" seems to be a reference to Leon Trotsky's statement during the Kronsdadt rebellion of Anarchists in the Soviet Union, where he reportedly threatened to hunt them down "like rabbits", unless they surrendered.
Wed, 2010-07-07 17:39
#20
Kropotkin died in February 1921 and thus was spared seeing the end of his lifetime of work promoting revolution. Syndicalism and democratic revolutionary organizations are scary thoughts for people who want to control the whole economy within their own little cabal.
Wed, 2010-07-07 18:12
#21
The police are not interested in them then or now. Why should you be?
The Police are interested in, first, repressing disent, and where possible, having fun beating up helpless people. That's what they are fervently trying to cover up.
Our task isn't to fetishize the minor-- yes minor-- lawlessness of one group while some fairly FUCKING MAJOR BREACHES OF LAW committed by the police go unquestioned.
Meatheads.
What we should be doing, if we are so interested in law and order and good government, is getting together off line, (yes, get the industrial sized spatula out and scrape that butt off the chair) and helping to find out precisely what cops did what, and doing whatever we can within the law to make thier lives uncomfortable. Not for revenge. But for next time.
They are bullies. They had their weekend of fun. Now it's time to illustrate to them-- however long it takes-- that it came at a price.
And, we should be extending the same coutesy, in measure, for the totalitarian sympathisers in the media, and federal, provincial and municple politics.
Meanwhile, the Black Block people will grow up, buy a house one day and start working for the clampdown, don't worry about them.
Wed, 2010-07-07 19:04
#22
Here's a wonderful response I received about this issue re: how the movement treats each other regarding contentious issue since the comment I posted below reflects the sentiment that I'm trying to avoid. It was posted publically on my facebook wall but I will omit the poster's name since this is not about him but about the issue
......
statica, I find that post frightening but not surprising, as it is said violence begets violence.
I do not support hunting anyone down like rabbits.
What I feel is that we are being pushed towards becoming a violent society without respect for eachother and that this violence serves to feed the machinery which would benefit by increased policing, increased incarceration and that unless we wake the fuck up to how we are being manipulated we are lost. Truth of the matter is I think we lost this battle years ago and what remains of our rights is only part of the dog and pony show that makes "Canada the best place in the world to live".
For all their revolutionary intentions the black bloc participates in this destruction, they are being used, they need to wake up to that fact and find other ways to express the need for change.
Wed, 2010-07-07 19:24
#23
Frustrated Mess
Why is the assumption made that the Black Bloc are allies?
This video suggests they're not. In fact, I will argue they 're not allies in any sense of the word. They're actions serve the status quo in a radical fashion. The left, centre left, and labour protests bear the brunt of the BB tactics in the following ways: Their message is lost; Their audience turns against them, blaming them for the violence; they're civil liberties are suspended and they're subjected to violence and brutality; the issue to which they wished to focus attention is lost.
The BB if anything are allies and agents of the police. Organizations that call for and promote a "diversity of tactics" following the Battle in Seattle need to give their heads a shake. If a tactic is counter-productive, then it is a counter-tactic. Wake up!
Sun, 2010-07-11 03:51
#24
Heres another take on it:
"Fortunately, there are encouraging signs within the circles that
contribute to the black blocs. In preparing for the Pittsburgh
protests, some anarchist voices expressed the need for greater focus
on long term organizing within local communities. Indeed, within
Pittsburgh, there was an ambitious outreach campaign in a few
neighborhoods. Yet, generally, there remains among many a striking
insularity, reflected not only in group social dynamics but in the
failure to seriously consider outreach to the broader public.
Frequently, this kind of outreach never even seems to occur to those
who identify as anarchists. Tabling, door knocking, distributing
fliers - any form of outreach that permits conversations with the
public - these are the tactics of groups interested in building mass
movements."
Sun, 2010-07-11 04:25
#25
NDPPThe police are not interested in them then or now. Why should you be?
The Police are interested in, first, repressing disent, and where possible, having fun beating up helpless people. That's what they are fervently trying to cover up.
Our task isn't to fetishize the minor-- yes minor-- lawlessness of one group while some fairly FUCKING MAJOR BREACHES OF LAW committed by the police go unquestioned.
Meatheads.
What we should be doing, if we are so interested in law and order and good government, is getting together off line, (yes, get the industrial sized spatula out and scrape that butt off the chair) and helping to find out precisely what cops did what, and doing whatever we can within the law to make thier lives uncomfortable. Not for revenge. But for next time.
They are bullies. They had their weekend of fun. Now it's time to illustrate to them-- however long it takes-- that it came at a price.
And, we should be extending the same coutesy, in measure, for the totalitarian sympathisers in the media, and federal, provincial and municple politics.
I agree entirely with this and the listed pressure points as well..
Sun, 2010-07-11 05:33
#26
I like the idea of making their lives uncomfortable. In tandem with pressure for inquiries which reach high enough up the chain to reel in the federal involvement, I think Torontonians on the ground can do a lot to chasten the local police - naming and shaming, isn't it called?
Use stills from the abundant video evidence, identify the more egregious offenders in terms of gratuitous violence - track down the nasty little fucks that were eating and drinking in front of the prisoners at Eastern for example - or the lady cop with a terrific expression as she swings her person-beating club...some nice large colour posters featuring such images, with NAMES and details, time date location, plaster those around the downtown core, on websites; make the police responsible for their behavior.
Sun, 2010-07-11 07:28
#27
I saw reports of an interview with a Black Bloc, guy said he was a husband and father and in post-grad theology ... now, even if he made it up this piques my interest
I wonder where these people hang out? I would like to talk to them
Tue, 2010-07-13 14:33
#28
there are people who would like to stereotype those who participate in the Black Bloc to portray them all as dumb skinny punk rawk kids with not a brain-cell to spare
but unfortunately, they really arent all that cool and tend to come from all walks of life
i also think the Black Bloc thing is dinosauric, and anarchists should really abandon it and focus on other types of organizing...but some people insist on smashing windows...poor windows
but really, the idea that the police man-handled everyone else because of the black bloc is pretty ridiculous...i agree that the tactic has been coopted by the state, and anarchists may be unwittingly helping those in power more than hurting them...but really, the cops man-handled you because you allowed them to...which is not unreasonable...they can seriously kick your ass and even kill you...and they will get away with it, even if 250 people record it happening and 538736367 trillion people watch it on Youtube
you should blame that on the black bloc too...it's all their fault...
i have no idea where one might be able to talk to these people, though...theyre pretty busy coming up with new ways to piss off the left, i would imagine...
Wed, 2010-07-14 16:36
#29
writer
In a society where cameras and instant access to the Internet are changing the way we all view and record demonstrations, both the police and protesters want to harness the power of the public to bear witness to public events.
http://www.rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/statica/2010/07/g8g20-communiqu%C3%A...
A must-read.
Wed, 2010-07-14 16:41
#30
CBC News has been hyping the police point of view - refers to Black Bloc simply as 'protesters' - says the public has responded 'overwhelmingly' with vids and photos of 'protester violence'. Says that in the 'battle for the media', the protesters message 'lacks focus'. CBC news has become truly just a state mouthpiece for elite interests.
Wed, 2010-07-14 16:52
#31
writer
[url=http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100714/g20-most-wanted-... seek help identifying '10 Most Wanted' protesters[/url] This is footage of today's follow-up release of additional pictures by Toronto Police G20 task force. This is going to be a weekly event. At today's conference, the man in the expensive jacket was singled out, with the statement that he is not a cop. It is acknowledged that most of the people without facial covering are *not* protesters and/or aligned with the black bloc.
It is stated that police were on the scene taking pictures. So why were they not on the scene policing? It begins to stink of large-scale entrapment.
Is the budget for this ongoing investigation part of the $1.2 billion or in addition to it? I will be interested in what statica might dig out about the involvement / consultation of Montreal police. How much will that partnership cost?
Note also the role of bankers' facial recognition software, and the use of images from the mass detention.
Hoping that others will have more insight.
Wed, 2010-07-14 16:56
#32
writer
It's well worth watching the actual police video of today's release. Here's the raw footage, from the source iteself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5sk6baBIjw
Wed, 2010-07-14 17:11
#33
writer
Wow. From RT TV. Haven't seen this linked to anywhere: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovCRVNMy97g
Wed, 2010-07-14 20:55
#34
Interesting that no mention was made of video footage taken from the dozens of surveillance cameras that the police installed before the G20. I have seen some acknowledgment that their central command in Barrie was watching the action real time.
From I've seen from videos, one of my "issues" is the way in which the black bloc tactic was used (not that I condone it otherwise). As I suggested before the G20, by using another event as a launching pad for a "separate" action, lots of people appear to have joined in the excitement of the moment. They were not in affinity groups. They were not prepared. They were not masked. They were identifiable and vulnerable. How many black blockers warned those who were not masked not put themselves at risk? Not many from what I saw on the "tube".
Now some of these folks may pay a heavy price for spontaneously jumping into something that was consciously planned out by others. Yes, they did it of their own free will even if that wasn't their intention when they left home that morning. Many of those who were disguised simply walked away and will never be identified (sort of the point).
In other words, by engaging in this adventurist action, the BBers deliberately allowed others to "sacrifice" themselves. They could't even come up with a "rule" that said, no mask, stand down".
Wed, 2010-07-14 23:09
#35
Wow. From RT TV. Haven't seen this linked to anywhere: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovCRVNMy97g
I don't get what's different about this video. It's the same as many others talking about the black bloc tactics of vandalizing, ..etc. It has no mention of any non-main stream media thoughts such as that police infiltrates these groups with agents who in many cases are leaders of the group. This phenomena is wide spread. Remember the apartment building bombings that terrorized Moscow during the Chechnya war and how eventually the people of Moscow caught in the act what turned out to be Russian agents while they were laying a bomb in a building. After that incident it all stopped.
Wed, 2010-07-14 23:22
#36
Boom Boom
I can't help thinking the BB was cleverly manipulated by police/government/other interests with the sole purpose of taking attention away from the organised and peaceful protests against the G20, and to make those protests look bad by associating the vandalism and violence of the BB with the organised protests.
Wed, 2010-07-14 23:31
#37
RevolutionPlease
Y'all are fools if you don't believe this was cleverly planned.
Wed, 2010-07-14 23:45
#38
Boom Boom
My thought exactly - that this a staged event using the BB as pawns. How else to explain the video that showed "BB's" with police-issue boots - during the demos? Those infiltrators - if that is indeed what they were - had to have planned this well in advance.
Wed, 2010-07-14 23:49
#39
Cueball
Wow. From RT TV. Haven't seen this linked to anywhere: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovCRVNMy97g
This is what news reporting looks like, in case anyone hasn't seen television journalism before. It is charachterized by a number of features. For example, it reports the story using statements from a variety of sources, and the editorializations of the reporter is kept to a minimum in favour of reviewing differing perspectives on events. Interestingly it is Russian.
One might compare it to our coverage of events overseas by our media, and note how quick we are to condemn local state media in places like China for presenting a one sided view based on the official story, while our media more freely reports the story.
Wed, 2010-07-14 23:55
#40
RevolutionPlease
I\m shocked you're able to post and not get busted Cueball.
Wed, 2010-07-14 23:58
#41
How else to explain the video that showed "BB's" with police-issue boots
Can't similar boots be purchased commercially? I bet they can.
What is suspecious is not the boots but the fact the police was present and didn't arrest any of the vandals.
Thu, 2010-07-15 00:06
#42
Cueball
I\m shocked you're able to post and not get busted Cueball.
That isn't going to happen.
Thu, 2010-07-15 00:06
#43
RevolutionPlease
Suspicious indeed.
Thu, 2010-07-15 00:09
#44
RevolutionPlease
Thu, 2010-07-15 00:10
#45
RevolutionPlease
eta: cross posted
Thu, 2010-07-15 00:40
#46
writer
Wow. From RT TV. Haven't seen this linked to anywhere: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovCRVNMy97g
This is what news reporting looks like, in case anyone hasn't seen television journalism before. It is charachterized by a number of features. For example, it reports the story using statements from a variety of sources, and the editorializations of the reporter is kept to a minimum in favour of reviewing differing perspectives on events. Interestingly it is Russian.
One might compare it to our coverage of events overseas by our media, and note how quick we are to condemn local state media in places like China for presenting a one sided view based on the official story, while our media more freely reports the story.
Exactly my point. Thanks, Cue.
Mon, 2010-07-19 14:45
#47
RTV had the best coverage of the protests at the Olympics also. However I suspect they will not report as well on the protests for the next Winter Olympics.
Mon, 2010-07-19 16:12
#48
Krystalline Kraus
Countering Conspiracy Theories on Police Response to Black Bloc: http://mostlywater.org/countering_conspiracy_theories_police_response_black_bloc_1
Mon, 2010-07-19 19:43
#49
Cueball
RTV had the best coverage of the protests at the Olympics also. However I suspect they will not report as well on the protests for the next Winter Olympics.
More or less the point we just made.
Thu, 2010-07-22 23:56
#50
I am very irritated by people on the left who are deflecting attention - that should be focused on the police - onto the "Black Block". Take another look at the youtube footage of that weekend. Are we going to let that sort of paramilitary style police action go unchecked? Sure, the Black Block is stupid. But if we let the police enjoy the shade provided by all this fuss over the Black Block -- We're stupid!
Fri, 2010-07-23 00:43
#51
Cueball
Right.