A customer at the bar in Vancouver's Opus Hotel said she was shocked to discover men could watch her on video monitors placed over the urinals in the hotel's men's washroom.
Elisabeth Everett told CBC News Wednesday that she was in a group at a table in the bar celebrating her sister's birthday, but became alarmed when another patron told her what he had just seen.
The chic ‘see-and-be-seen’ OPUS Bar in world-renowned OPUS Hotel Vancouver, now boasts a new re-mix of eccentric furniture with an affluent disregard for style rules. The heat has been turned up with splashes of amplified pink, saturated lavendar, and a glow wall taking on the color of a chemical sunset – the perfect backdrop for Vancouver’s style savvy crowd. Over lively conversation, innovative cocktails and an eclectic “O Bites” menu, enjoy live music from the city’s best DJs. Glass-walled restrooms and live video feeds allow you to always keep an eye on the action and indulge your inner voyeurism. Located in fashionable Yaletown, OPUS Bar has been consistently voted “Vancouver’s Most Popular Nightspot” by Zagat.
I'd throw Kubrick, A Clockwork Orange, into the mix.
I don't see how this is a privacy issue. The camera points at the bar area, which is in full public view. A person standing at the urinal has no greater access to the privacy of the people in the bar than anyone standing in the bar itself. Ironically enough, there is no apparent concern with the security cameras which intrude just as much into the privacy of the patrons.
Speaking as a woman, I do see a difference between a guy standing in a populated bar looking over at a woman, and a guy holding his penis in another, more private, room, looking at the same woman with no way of her knowing that he is.
The bar says, "Oh, video is in the women's bathroom, too!" Where? In the area set aside for clit holding? Oh right! There is no such area!
Perhaps some cannot understand the level of creepitude this reaches.
I dunno, writer. The situation is entirely fucked up. That is just weird. Above the urinal, really? Luckily standing at one too long and 'more than two shakes' is pretty much as taboo men's room behaviour as there is.
Never mind lliterature that actually induces one to think. This is as complex and as sinister as reality TV.
Now that the media has given them some free advertising the place will either fill up with people who are into this this kind of fad or it will empty out fast.
My guess is the former. They'll have to post some sort of warning at the door. Beyond that there are more than enough people who will find it fun for a month or so until it gets boring.
christ. my brain keeps on defaulting back to this story. i mean, socitey's concept of privacy is being torn apart as it is. but this is a vanguard, chique move to destroy it. this is destroying privacy and personal security for the sake of being cool. and that being cool means knowing precisely where everyone in the bar is. what precisely they are doing. there is just so much weird with this story.
Speaking as a woman, I do see a difference between a guy standing in a populated bar looking over at a woman, and a guy holding his penis in another, more private, room, looking at the same woman with no way of her knowing that he is.
The bar says, "Oh, video is in the women's bathroom, too!" Where? In the area set aside for clit holding? Oh right! There is no such area!
Perhaps some cannot understand the level of creepitude this reaches.
No one ever masturbates at a urinal. Aside from fetishists, no one would feel any prurient interest looking at people (not just women go to bars) while standing and urinating. In fact, being sexually excited actually cuts off the urethra in men, making them unable to urinate.
No kidding, PB. Great observation. Normalizing surveillance and coercion through crass consumption. Innovation at its finest.
ETA. That's a weird comment, Pants-of-Dog. I certainly see the connection writer is talking about and it has little to do with the anatomy of the urethra.
I'm writing from the complainants' POV, as opposed to your earlier post, from a male pisser's POV.
This is why a woman would find it objectionable. It is creepy, whether the guy masturbates or not. He has his cock in his hand, looking at me. Fricking. Creepy.
"Is Billy a voyeur?"
"I think he is more of an exhibitionist."
Take a tour of the Opus Hotel - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_4_GDNLqR4
Cute! Women are treated to having their faces replaced by the images of other people! Had a feeling it would be over the sink for us.
http://www.hotelsbycity.net/blog/hotel-throne/bathroom-images/celebrity-...
Erasure of identity, because others are more interesting. So cool. So now.
I'm writing from the complainants' POV, as opposed to your earlier post, from a male pisser's POV.
This is why a woman would find it objectionable. It is creepy, whether the guy masturbates or not. He has his cock in his hand, looking at me. Fricking. Creepy.
Yes, that is true and completely understandable, but feeling creeped out by something does not constitute an invasion of one's privacy, even though it may be objectionable.
i go look for table to hide under.
5000 kilometres from here
but spreads a lot faster than fire ants
Exhibitionism / voyeurism seems to be a thing this hotel is selling. From one of the [private?!] suites: http://www.hotelsbycity.net/blog/hotel-throne/bathroom-images/opus-hotel...
Exhibitionism / voyeurism seems to be a thing this hotel is selling. From one of the [private?!] suites: http://www.hotelsbycity.net/blog/hotel-throne/bathroom-images/opus-hotel...
LOL
Geez. I was able to do that back in treeplanting camp for free. I didn't have to pay big bucks to rent a room in downtown Vancouver. Are they going to replace parking meters on the street with dime telescopes too?
You know, it's not that I don't find it offensive, it's just that the stupidity of it far surpasses the threat.
Plus, half the thrill, and how they are counting on creating a buzz to fill that joint is the notion that they think they are outraging straight-laced people and doing something edgy and alternative. Sorry, it's stupid, and I would expect that a good number of the guys who walk up to a urinal like that would also find it stupid, creepy and embarrasing. I'm not going to give them the satisfaction of thinking they are doing anything cutting edge or challenging.
Above all, it is a stupid gimmick cooked up by some developer to sell a bar. High school pranks are one thing - stupid. Having some businessman sell you a pre-packaged high school prank is stupid and ultimately boring
There are plenty of places that cater to alternative sexuality in a legitimate way (and most of them are not making huge pots of money in the process). Trying to go upscale and mainstream with the same thing.... well those of us who are old enough remember how well Exit to Eden did at the box office. Or perhaps many of us don't, which says even more.
It's not a venture I would sink my money into, if I had that kind of money.
I don't see the relevance of Orwell and Huxley here.
A couple of cameras do not equal governmental control over an individual's thoughts and behaviour.
Agreed.
I do keep thinking about the Korova Milk Bar.
Also, this is a bar, no one has to stay if they don't want to. could always go next door to use the can, no?
couldn't we make the same criticisms of a bathhouse/spa? but we assume the people going there know what they're getting into.
Okay, Clockwork Orange was a better analogy.
A couple of cameras do not equal governmental control over an individual's thoughts and behaviour.
primary step to successful operant conditioning, thus acceptance of what one would not have accepted prior, is desensitization to desired action/belief/condition.
and that is what I see in this action, the reality shows, and movies like ED, they telling us it is no big deal if we are constantly watched.
It is a big deal actually but people are becoming more and more desensitized to it, especially in the cities where it is constant anyway
Oh and I agree with writer men watching women while in the bathroom holding their dicks is beyond creepy.
Don't the cameras record everyone in the bar, regardless of gender?
There also are screens in the women's washroom, but that did not placate Everett
Sex, Lies and Videotape might be a better film analogy yet, except for the sex and lies part.
I dunno, people have a choice. If they don't want to be filmed, they can go to a different saloon. The exhibitionists and voyeurs can go to this one.
Well al'q, perhaps if you have been the target of men objectifying you, taking away your agency and stalking and raping you, perhaps you would notice that there is a difference in one gender watching one another.
Also, I keep thinking about the creepy guy in Nanaimo, that would rush off to the bathroom to masturbate after he had brushed up against a women in the bar, and he would also do it on the bus, and then go to the back and masturbate.
It is creepy, no it is beyond creepy.
Sure it's creepy and tacky, but it's both genders watching both genders.
If you don't like it, don't go there.
Hmmm, that smacks of "market driven solutions" type of thinking, and I for 1, am certainly not going to base my reality framework on that evil premise.
The point is, the woman went there, not knowing.
Is Dave Chappelle in white face reading the news "the same" as Al Jolson in black face singing Mammy? No. Why? Power dynamics, history, violence. Etc.
Should this be illegal? Is it breaking any current laws? At the very least, if it is legal and remains unregulated, there should be signage before entering outlining that one may be under observation by those in the lavatories. If it isn't to be regulated all that is left is the invisible hand of the market.
I believe the original article mentioned that there are signs.
Maybe the patrons of this place should wear masks. After all, the people in the bar can see everyone too.
From the original article: There are no signs in the bar warning patrons they're on camera, but the bar menu does mention that the restrooms feature "live video feeds to keep an eye on the action."
I walk into buildings all the time with cameras pointed at me. I rarely see signs telling me that I am being filmed.
Should there be some sort of sign for that? Or should I only be warned if the monitors are stationed over urinals?
How is it that these cameras are an invasion of privacy but security cameras are not?
Would the audience be the diference, pod?
wouldn't the viewer be the differnce?
...security cameras are monitored by people paid to keep the store/service provider secure.
Wow, post #31 and 32 agree.
How's this for creepy? The same person who just threw a whizz may be sitting at the next table to you. The audience hasn't changed.
By the way, guys using urinals generally stare straight ahead and don't look around at anything or anybody. Doing so is considered rather creepy.
wouldn't the viewer be the differnce?
...security cameras are monitored by people paid to keep the store/service provider secure.
The security camera footage is recorded. I have no control over who watches it, what the company does with it, or even who is watching me.
The monitor over the urinal is not recorded, so I do not have to worry about what the company does with it. While I ahve no control over who watches me in either case, I at least know that the people watching me are the same patrons who are watching me from their barstools.
So, if the importance is the viewer, then I would say that the urinal monitor is less of an invasion of privacy, because the viewer of the urinal monitor has less unaccountable control over my image.
Just an aside...
The assumption I was working under yesterday may not be true. From what I read on the CBC comments this place is a well-established pickup joint with a lot of prostitution going on, and the video system has been there for awhile.
Assuming that is true, this is not a fad that is destined to crash, just a bit of spot news, it seems.
My opinion of it remains the same.
...womansplaining is going here by writer and I at least.
