Got any evidence for the picking up marbles and going home comment?
Helen lost because a significant part of the left in Ward 20 identified her as part of the NDP establishment.
Adam said he wasn't going to run against Tam Goosen.
Toronto council races part 2
Sat, 2010-10-02 18:49
#52
Sat, 2010-10-02 19:01
#53
Cueball
Never doubt the extent to which bigotry will sway voters. That was pretty sad really Helen was always an excelent second hand to Chow, and I am sure she would have done a better job, just on the nuts and bolts issues for her constituents.
Sat, 2010-10-02 19:01
#54
A lot of Tam Goossen's supporters are now supporting Karen Sun.
Sat, 2010-10-02 19:59
#55
Helen Kennedy was a lousy candidate and having lived in and around Trinity-Spadina most of my life I can say her constituency work wasn't viewed as that impressive by the many people I've talked to. Tam Goosen would have been much stronger. And I think Adam has done a good job and I will vote for him (but campaign for others in more competitive races).
But Helen definitely seems more impressive than Layton Jr., who comes across as very slick and robotic.
Sat, 2010-10-02 20:14
#56
Cueball
I don't think Adam has done a good job. Managing to have the Futures Cafe patio closed after 11:00 because of noise complaints about the Brunswick Tavern was just about the most stupid piece of constituency work I can imagine. Meanwhile several college bars have opened up but local resident concerns about Bloor turning into a new club district results in the closing of the late night coffee and cheescake place. Bizarre.
Now there is simply no restaurant one can go to on bloor after 11:00 that doesn't require you to risk having someones scotch and soda spilled all over you.
Sat, 2010-10-02 20:19
#57
I feel Adam has been very good in terms of articulating a "public good" perspective for the City - and he has been critical of the Miller regime from the left on the issue of user fees (along with Gord Perks, who is one of the finest councillors, and a very principled social democrat). And I can't think of any issue where he deviated from the progressive bloc from the *right* (as many here suggested he would do four years ago) - so if he wasn't left enough on some issues that's true of all councillors.
Regardless it is interesting that there are Vaughan/Kennedy dynamics at work, except this time the candidate of the NDP establishment has the name recognition. In fact Stockholm seems to think that having the son of Jack run is an asset in and of itself!
Sat, 2010-10-02 21:03
#58
Regardless it is interesting that there are Vaughan/Kennedy dynamics at work, except this time the candidate of the NDP establishment has the name recognition. In fact Stockholm seems to think that having the son of Jack run is an asset in and of itself!
In municipal politics, anything that gives you name recognition is an asset. Quite frankly, Adam Vaughan would be a total nobody had he not been the son of Colin Vaughan! At least Mike Layton is the son of an active, living politician. Adam Vaughan managed to build a political career based on being the son of a deceased city councillor from the early 1970s!
Sat, 2010-10-02 21:06
#59
dp
Sat, 2010-10-02 21:07
#60
Got any evidence for the picking up marbles and going home comment?
Helen lost because a significant part of the left in Ward 20 identified her as part of the NDP establishment.
Adam said he wasn't going to run against Tam Goosen.
I don't want to get into a big replay of the 2006 election, but for the record:
a. The whole point of bothering with having an NDP nomination meeting in Ward 20 was to avoid splitting the vote and for whoever lost to agree to rally behind whoever won. Whether you like it or not - there was a democratic process and Helen Kenndy got more votes than Tam Goosen - then it seems that Goosen disappeared off the face of the earth and didn't lift a finger in the campaign - whcih begs the question why run for the nomination in the first place if you were not going to respect the result?
b. We will never know why exactly Helen lost because no one has done PhD thesis on that race that involved interviewing thousands of people and asking them why they voted the way they did. My hypothesis is that Adam Vaughan won by getting all the votes of people who were anti-NDP (who had no where else to go), PLUS getting a lot of votes from other people because he was a well-known figure from being a broadcaster - so he was the more "famous" candidate, he was the "name", PLUS getting some votes from a few bitter die-hard Tam Goosen supporters who simply never accepted that their candidate lost the nomination fair and square. Ward 20 is the kind of place where people like the idea of being represented by a star candidate who gets lots of press - as opposed to a behind the scenes problem solver. Obviously being part of the "NDP establishment" is hardly a liability in Trinity-Spadina given that voters in that riding have re-elected Olivia Chow and Rosario Marchese in election since the 2006 municipal election.
c. It is simply false that Adam Vaughan was not going to run if Tam Goosen was to be his opponent. Vaughan had already filed his papers and was already campaigning BEFORE the NDP nomination meeting even happened and I might add that it was a slight upset that Helen even beat Tam for the nomination - I think most people (probably including Vaughan) expected Tam to win and to be his opponent. I DO remember Vaughan saying that if Tam Goosen had been his opponent instead of Helen Kennedy it would have been a different kind of campaign (obviously) - but he was definitely running no matter what.
Sat, 2010-10-02 21:22
#61
You of course neglect to mention that NDP voters and activists in the Chinese community went for Adam as well. Winnie Ng may be the most prominent, but there were many others. Many of whom are now involved in the Good Green Jobs for All coalition.
In fact, Helen's worst polls were in Chinatown and Alexandra Park.
Either way, if there's some issue that people want to point to where Vaughan deviated from the progressive/NDP bloc, I'd like to hear of it.
But personally I'd rather talk about the races in 2010. Tomorrow I hope to head up to Davenport to help out Jonah Schein. He is a genuine left activist who gave an excellent speech today at the "No Fare is Fair" rally at Christie Pits. And yes, he has Vaughan's endorsement (and those of Cathy Crowe and Jim Stanford).
Sat, 2010-10-02 21:27
#62
You of course neglect to mention that NDP voters and activists in the Chinese community went for Adam as well. Winnie Ng may be the most prominent, but there were many others. Many of whom are now involved in the Good Green Jobs for All coalition.
As I mentioned there were people who had backed Tam Goosen who were bitter about her loss and supported Adam Vaughan out of spite. I think that was a bit of a childish reaction - but its all water under the bridge now. Luckily Vaughan turned out to be a pretty good councillor in the end and he seems to have good relations now with the NDP etc...even to the point of endorsing NDPer Kristen Wong-Tam in Toronto Centre over Smitherman's puppet Kevin Chan.
Sat, 2010-10-02 21:30
#63
He also endorsed Cathy Crowe in the byelection.
Sun, 2010-10-03 18:06
#64
Researcher, community activist and Rabble contributor Uzma Shakir endorses Karen Sun:
These are the best of times and the worst of times. Current ‘politics’ is either paternalistic – I know best because I rule you, or a spectacle of buffoonery with contradictory logic being paraded as platforms for election – I am running for government to stop it from governing.What is being completely missed in this facile debate is the fact that government is essential if only to maintain an arms length mechanism to temper and negotiate individual self-interest with collective and common good. What distinguishes us as an ‘organized’ society is the rule of law and structures of fair governance. What has been lacking is ‘participatory democracy’ – and that is the promise of KAREN SUN.
Karen’s entire history as an environmentalist, a social planner, a community activist and now candidate for City Council has been defined by two fundamental principles: a recognition and respect for diversity and a keen appreciation that structures of governance need to be accessible and collaborative if democracy is to build an equitable society. Karen has never seen City politics either as the dictatorship of the majority or a family legacy that you inherit. To her the only agenda that the City of Toronto can have is one based in equity and active participation but that can only happen if the most marginalized and vulnerable in our society have a meaningful voice. To Karen the highest form of service to humanity is public service provided it is responsible, progressive, equitable and accountable.
We neither need more government nor less government – we need the right government – WE NEED KAREN SUN AS CITY COUNCILLOR!
Uzma Shakir
Community Activist
Sun, 2010-10-03 18:13
#65
As has Judy Rebick:
I am supporting Karen Sun because she has the vision and experience that Toronto needs. Her combination of commitment to a greener city and democratic community process is the leadership we need. Karen’s election will also help ensure that City Council reflects the diverse communities in Toronto.
Sun, 2010-10-03 18:52
#66
Is Karen Sun ever going to tell us who she supports for mayor or are we left twisting in the wind wondering if she's voting for Rob Ford? I think its a legitimate question.
Sun, 2010-10-03 19:42
#67
writer
Stockholm, this is too trite. Pantalone is formally endorsing another candidate in the ward. I think it's legit to raise the question of when the NDP (formally or informally) is going to be more serious about putting marginalized peoples into viable wards / ridings. To turn around and demand that an excluded progressive from a marginalized demographic must publicly support a mayoral candidate who publicly *doesn't* support her is beyond rich.
If Karen and Joe are elected, I am sure they'll find a way to work together.
Could we try to maybe cool down on the petty politicking?
Sun, 2010-10-03 20:33
#68
I'm certainly voting for Joe and all, but his endorsement of Mike Layton was pretty self-serving.
Sun, 2010-10-03 21:25
#69
writer
CityTV has a live debate right now. It includes an online poll. Second column from the right, about 3/4 down the page: http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews
Sun, 2010-10-03 23:41
#70
Jonah Schein was among the speakers at this rally for the No Fare is Fair campaign:
Sun, 2010-10-03 23:54
#71
Stockholm, this is too trite. Pantalone is formally endorsing another candidate in the ward. I think it's legit to raise the question of when the NDP (formally or informally) is going to be more serious about putting marginalized peoples into viable wards / ridings. To turn around and demand that an excluded progressive from a marginalized demographic must publicly support a mayoral candidate who publicly *doesn't* support her is beyond rich.
If she cares about the City of Toronto - she should do us the courtesy of indicating who she supports for mayor. Which candidate for mayor supports her is of no relevance to the discussion. That would tell people a lot about what she really stands for. Caveat emptor.
Speaking of marginalized peoples - last election, the NDP formally endorsed a lesbian who immigrated to Canada to run for city council (some people didn't like and supported a very UNmarginalized white man - c'est la vie). The NDP is also informally backing a lesbian Chinese-Canadian in Ward 29 and that is just in the downtown area.
Mon, 2010-10-04 00:08
#72
Yup, and those who supported Tam were just sore losers, blah blah blah.
But personally, I'd rather talk about 2010. Are you going to be doing any work for some city council candidates, Stockholm? There is no contest in my ward (Adam Vaughan's) so I've decided to try to help Karen Sun, Jonah Schein and Kristyn Wong-Tam.
Mon, 2010-10-04 00:31
#73
I've donated to Mike Layton, Kevin Beaulieu and Joe Pantalone. I like what I see of Kristen Wong-Tam and Jonah Schein too (is it OK to support him against Palacio - who is from a marginalized community being Ecuadorian?).
Speaking of Wong-Tam in her race in Ward 29 - I think I may be the only person who has pointed out that her main opponent - Smitherman's new marionette Ken Chan - claims to be progressive and brags in his campaign literature about having been an "advisor to London Mayor Boris Johnson". Guess what? Johnson is from the far rightwing of the Conservative Party and won in a bit of a fluke because of backlash against Gordon Brown etc...he is very much the Rob Ford of London. He has gone berzerk with cuts to social programs and new privatization schemes. I'd like to know more about what sort of "advice" Ken Chan was giving this ultra rightwing mayor of London and if he plans on giving the next mayor of Toronto similar "advice".
Mon, 2010-10-04 00:44
#74
Actually I've been spreading the word about Ken Chan's hypocrisy of claiming to be progressive and being an adviser to Boris Johnson as well. Fortunately, it looks like there's another Liberal running there - Simon Wookey - as well, so maybe they'll split the vote.
ETA: There are two other NDPers, Joel Dick and Susan Gapka, in that race as well. But it seems that Kristyn Wong-Tam has solidifed most of the NDP vote.
Mon, 2010-10-04 09:36
#75
Regardless it is interesting that there are Vaughan/Kennedy dynamics at work, except this time the candidate of the NDP establishment has the name recognition. In fact Stockholm seems to think that having the son of Jack run is an asset in and of itself!
In municipal politics, anything that gives you name recognition is an asset. Quite frankly, Adam Vaughan would be a total nobody had he not been the son of Colin Vaughan! At least Mike Layton is the son of an active, living politician. Adam Vaughan managed to build a political career based on being the son of a deceased city councillor from the early 1970s!
Actually, given population migration and generational change etc I doubt many of the people who voted for Adam Vaughan in 2006 would have been aware that his father was a councillor in the 1970s or particularly cared. They are more likely to have recognized him as a reporter for CITY or, before that, CBC (and yes, while one could argue that CITY hired Adam Vaughan because he was Colin Vaughan's son but he became a journalist on his own and had built a career at CBC Radio and CBC TV before being hired away by CITY.)
Mon, 2010-10-04 09:36
#76
Came home last night to find a Rob Davis sign on my lawn courtesy of the landlord:(
Mon, 2010-10-04 09:45
#77
Are renters allowed to put up signs as well as landlords?
Mon, 2010-10-04 09:46
#78
Yes but I would like to take the sign down.
Mon, 2010-10-04 09:56
#79
Cueball
I can do that for you. Just PM me with the address.
Mon, 2010-10-04 12:37
#80
To turn around and demand that an excluded progressive from a marginalized demographic must publicly support a mayoral candidate who publicly *doesn't* support her is beyond rich.
Good point Writer. Having met Karen Sun on several occasions, I would probably vote for her if I lived in the ward. I've never met Mike Layton and so don't have anything against him but Karen has good analysis, good credentials and lots of community experience. Suggesting she might vote for Ford because she's not endorsed anyone else is a cheap smear.
p.s. - My Pantalone sign must have arrived at 12:01 a.m.
Mon, 2010-10-04 13:05
#81
...she might also be voting for Smitherman - we simply don't know.
Mon, 2010-10-04 13:15
#82
Cueball
...You might be voting for Ford... we don't know? This is called "poisoning the pond" and is an insidious debating technique, far above the quality of other the insidious, mendacious, quasi-libelous smears, self serving justifications and other manipulative debating strategies you use here on most occassions.
Mon, 2010-10-04 13:36
#83
From what I have read Karen Sun may have been involved in some progressive movements...
May have? Another cheap shot. What did you read? Here's something that confirms that Karen has been involved. About me. Or are we going to parse the meaning of "progressive movements"?
she might also be voting for Smitherman
"Also" as in voting twice?
If you think Layton is a better choice than Sun, why not offer some concrete differences in policy or experience instead of reducing it all to partisanship?
Mon, 2010-10-04 13:41
#84
Cueball
Of course someone who has no connection to any progressive movements would be unaware of Karen's involvement in progressive movements. How would he know? It is all hearsay and conjecture as far as he is concerned.
Mon, 2010-10-04 13:52
#85
Well, it is on her website. On the other hand, I haven't looked at Mike's website.
ETA: OK, now I have checked out his website and he also has an impressive resume.
Mon, 2010-10-04 14:48
#86
she might also be voting for Smitherman"Also" as in voting twice?
No, I meant that since she won't say who she supports for mayor - maybe she supports Ford (OK, probably not), or maybe she supports Smitherman (not outside the realm of possibility) or maybe she supports Rossi (seems doubtful but who knows) or maybe she supports Pantalone but wants it to be a secret for whatever reason. We simply don't know.
If she declares that she plans to vote for pantalone for mayor - I will take her word for it - just like I expect people to take my word for it when i say that i will vote for him.
As for positive reasons for supporting Mike Layton. It may well be that on the issues there is no difference between him and Karen Sun and for all I know karen is wonderful person and its a pity we can't have them both on council. So for me, it comes down to the following, i have met Mike Layton and I was impressed with him and like him and he has done a lot of good work on environmental issues etc...and he is getting support from a lot of people whose opinion I respect. I do not know Karen Sun. I also think that given the kind of organizational backing he has - he is probably to the stronger candidate to defat the onslaught from Sean McCormack who has all the local Liberals and Tories (all three on them) working on his campaign. I wouldn't want to see the progressive vote split and watch him come up the middle.
Mon, 2010-10-04 19:40
#87
I took the Ossington 63 bus today from Eglinton to Dundas travelling through three wards.
Observations:
In that part of Eglinton-Lawrence, at least, the race is between Rob Davis and Josh Colle. Colle appears to have more signs, a margin of 4:3 I'd say. That part of Elginton-Lawrence should be Davis' stronghold, another right winger, Ron Singer, of whose signs I saw a smattering, is likely stronger than Davis in Forest Hill and up Bathurst. If so Colle should benefit from a divided right (not that Colle is a raving lefty, he's the son of Liberal MPP Michael Colle and his website features an endorsement from Mel Lastman).
Cesar Palacio dominates Davenport (north) though Josh Schein is putting up a tough fight. Also, Palacio's signage is heavy on the main streets but are almost completely absent on side streets. This could just mean Palacio's sign crews are putting up heavy trafficked streets first and will fill in the side streets later, or it could mean they are using the old trick that used to be quite common in immigrant neighbourhoods of putting up signs indiscriminately in strategic locations without asking homeowners. If that's the case, Schein may be stronger than he appears since his signs are on the lawns of real people.
Mike Layton is dominating his ward outsigning Sean McCormick by about 2:1. I only saw a smattering of Karen Sun signs. In a contest with two progressives, a lot of left-of-centre voters will end up going for the progressive who looks more likely to beat the right making signs a critically important psychological factor. At the moment it looks like Layton is not only winning the progressive title hands down but is on his way to take the seat.
Mon, 2010-10-04 22:28
#88
Cueball
Meanwhile some community activists I met asked if the NDP was backing Pantalone, since they hadn't heard anything from them.
Mon, 2010-10-04 22:39
#89
Mike Layton is dominating his ward outsigning Sean McCormick by about 2:1. I only saw a smattering of Karen Sun signs. In a contest with two progressives, a lot of left-of-centre voters will end up going for the progressive who looks more likely to beat the right making signs a critically important psychological factor. At the moment it looks like Layton is not only winning the progressive title hands down but is on his way to take the seat.
Not surprising, as I'm sure Mike has far more resources to tap into. I don't doubt he'll have a solid voting record, but I think it's unfortunate that he insisting on running against a progressive Chinese Canadian woman with environmental credentials as strong as his (and community and union ones that far outstrip Layton's).
Wed, 2010-10-06 09:04
#90
Actually I've been spreading the word about Ken Chan's hypocrisy of claiming to be progressive and being an adviser to Boris Johnson as well. Fortunately, it looks like there's another Liberal running there - Simon Wookey - as well, so maybe they'll split the vote.
ETA: There are two other NDPers, Joel Dick and Susan Gapka, in that race as well. But it seems that Kristyn Wong-Tam has solidifed most of the NDP vote.
Kristyn Wong-Tam has gone to some trouble to distance herself from the NDP (she had a retraction printed in the Toronto Star when they called her an "NDP up and comer".) However she seems happy to use her NDP contacts when it suits her, I've had countless e-mails from her campaign so she must have an NDP membership list. I'm going to be voting for JOEL DICK, a 'real' NDP candidate that isn't ashamed of his political party.
Wed, 2010-10-06 10:23
#91
Meanwhile some community activists I met asked if the NDP was backing Pantalone, since they hadn't heard anything from them.
Jack layton (you know the leader of the NDP) formally endorsed Pantalone in a ceremony in Nathan Philips Square a couple of weeks ago - I'm not sure what more evidence people need that the NDP is backing Pantalone (to the extent that it can given that the race for mayor is non-partisan and no party names appear on ballots and all candidates have individuals from various parties backing them)
Wed, 2010-10-06 11:46
#92
Kristyn Wong-Tam has gone to some trouble to distance herself from the NDP (she had a retraction printed in the Toronto Star when they called her an "NDP up and comer".) However she seems happy to use her NDP contacts when it suits her, I've had countless e-mails from her campaign so she must have an NDP membership list. I'm going to be voting for JOEL DICK, a 'real' NDP candidate that isn't ashamed of his political party.
Wong-Tam clearly wants to have it both ways. She wants the NDP support but would not have anything to do with Pentalone even earlier on in the campaign. Earlier on when Rossi had some momentum she cosy'ed up to Rocco Rossi so much that Rossi's last campaign manager publicly endorsed her. In fact her campaign is managed by a former Rossi campaign staffer.
Another example, she scores point with the queer lefties claiming that she was a key player in Queers Against Israeli Apartheid, which is quite admirable. But when asked by Sue-Ann Levy about her involvement, she completely disavowed the group and claims that, "When I was asked by a QuAIA member to lend my credit card number so that they can register a domain name because no one has a credit card in the group, I said okay" No one in that group has a credit card? How lame is that excuse?
Vote for Joe Dick if you want a real NDPer in the seat.
Wed, 2010-10-06 12:25
#93
For those Joel Dick boosters out there, I wonder if they've heard him speak. In the one event I heard him speak (at the VoteTO debate at Fly, way back when) his speaking style seemed to be a list of focus-grouped speaking points that went in one ear and out the other. I have distinct trouble remembering any position he took, while KWT had the guts to actually put herself on the pro-free-speech side of the QUAIA episode. For that, I have more respect for her than Joel.
On the quotation: Sue-Ann Levy's not exactly an impartial witness, y'know. While I don't necessarily dispute the accuracy of what she reports KWT as saying, I do have to wonder what she left out and how she phrased the question(s).
Working as I have on another campaign in the ward, I have to say that KWT seems to have the momentum to win, while Dick will come in a respectable third or fourth. The question that NDPers and progressives have to ask themselves: Is KWT a better prospect for progressive goals than Ken Chan, Smitherman's man, who proudly touts his connection to Boris Johnson, Tory mayor of London?
Running an ideological rule over someone means they're always going to come up short.
Just my opinion.
Wed, 2010-10-06 14:37
#94
Cueball
Meanwhile some community activists I met asked if the NDP was backing Pantalone, since they hadn't heard anything from them.
Jack layton (you know the leader of the NDP) formally endorsed Pantalone in a ceremony in Nathan Philips Square a couple of weeks ago - I'm not sure what more evidence people need that the NDP is backing Pantalone (to the extent that it can given that the race for mayor is non-partisan and no party names appear on ballots and all candidates have individuals from various parties backing them)
They were talking about the party organization. It's all very well and fine for some talking heads to show up to a party and shake hands with people. It's another thing when they activate their organization.
Wed, 2010-10-06 14:43
#95
That's typically up to the federal and provincial MPs and MPPs. I get the impression that the olivia Chow/Rosario Marchese organizations are working for Joe and for Mike Layton simultaneously and I get the impression that layton's people in Toronto-Danforth are doing the same.
Since Panatalone is the only candidate who doesn't want to contract out etc...I wonder if any unions are lifting a finger for his campaign?
Wed, 2010-10-06 14:48
#96
Cueball
A question like that coming from an NDPr proves the first point, since you obviously don't even know who is doing all the footwork on Joe's campaign.
Wed, 2010-10-06 16:25
#97
Why don't you tell who is doing all the footwork - given that so many of the people who tend to volunteer for the NDP tend to be people who are union members in the first place!
Thu, 2010-10-07 06:38
#98
I know, you're trying to reach out to the queer vote, but Joel, really?
Thu, 2010-10-07 07:28
#99
I know, you're trying to reach out to the queer vote, but Joel, really?
I think it's called having a sense of humour and he's going to need it if he has to work with Rob Ford......
Thu, 2010-10-07 12:08
#100
I give Dick points for trying, but humour can easily backfire. For me, this one did.
Thu, 2010-10-07 13:41
#101
I give Dick points for trying, but humour can easily backfire. For me, this one did.
Well Joel's "I like Dick" slogan was extremely well received at Pride this year. There were more people wearing his cheeky stickers than the buttons/stickers of all the other Ward 27 candidates combined. Clearly members of the queer community have more sense of humour that some participants of this forum.