wikileaks - too good to be true?

It's important to remember that these are diplomatic cables, not transcripts of White House war-room sessions. So, we're not reading stuff by the people who sit around planning US foreign-policy. For the most part, the leaked material just seems to be diplomats passing on impressions about political figures in other countries, as well as things that they've been told by important people in those countries. Pretty much what you'd expect to find in diplomatic cables.

The American ass-covering that's going on probably results more from concerns about diplomatic awkwardness, rather than from any fear that the leaks are going to expose American misdeeds to the cold light of day. It's not gonna be the end of NATO if an American diplomat is quoted as saying that a British cabinet minister is a real Don Juan. Might make any future meetings with said cabinet minister a little on the awkward side, though. (And there could also be blowblack in the domestic politics of some of the countries involved, but it's kind of hard to be specific about any predictions in that area).

Anyone looking to understand the inner-workings of Hegemony would probably be better served by picking up a journalist's book covering the thoughts and actions of the people who are actually in power, making the decisions(eg. the infamous quote from the neo-con Hawk about how "We create our own reality" probably tells you more than fifty pages of diplomats' gossip about what's going on in the corridors of power). Short of another leak something along the lines of the Pentagon Papers, that's probably the closest you're gonna come to a fly-on-the-wall perspective.

There's more to come. And don't forget the previous releases - one of which showed innocents being gunned down from a US helicopter.

I agree that Assange isn't playing stoge to the Empire by releasing the stuff that he has. As far as I can tell, he relesase pretty much anything he gets, and lets the chips fall where they may. It's not even quite clear to me if his main concern is to effect a change in government policies, or simply to promote increased transparency.

"The idea that knowledge is going to effect profound change in society is highly questionable." And across the board, a very deep seated notion on the left: that the facts, or the misrepresentation of the facts, has determining and talismanic powers practically of its own right.

As has been said- none of this is 'Top Secret' stuff. Its the kind of stuff that is the fodder of chatter in the MSM all the time- the more honest appraisals of what is going on.

So all it does is confirm what could previously be dismissed as speculation. It isnt going to open anyone's eyes, or pave the way for interventionist adventures like Iran is next.

I agree with Cue both that people put a misplaced importance in 'what they reveal/illuminate'; and that their real value is just the simple act of exposure and transparency... not the content of the leaks.

Interesting that Danny Williams seemd to have the same reaction.

Quote:

There is nothing, at least so far, really damaging to anyone, in the sense that it might spark a mass uprising and popular revolt against the US Hegemony

Well, there was that one leak from the office of Donald Rumsfeld regarding an invoice for ten black balaclavas and some nano-thermite, but halfway through reading it my browser suddenly redirected to the Dancing With the Stars homepage, and when I went back, it was gone!

siamdave wrote:

Am I the only one wondering if there isn't something a bit fishy with this Wikileaks stuff? There is nothing, at least so far, really damaging to anyone, in the sense that it might spark a mass uprising and popular revolt against the US Hegemony

But what exactly did you expect to find in diplomatic cables from US embassies?

After the US embassy takeover in Iran in November 1979, the students involved in the takeover managed to put together most of embassy documents and communications (a very hard task, as some had been shredded and had to be put back together). The documents were published in 60+ volumes.  However the most surprising point was how insignificant the information turned out to be - aside from the historic value of some documents from the past. They were mostly opinion pieces by low rank diplomats.

NoDifferencePartyPooper wrote:

Wikileaks 'Cablegate' Psychological Operation Justifies Zionist War Propaganda

http://www.roguegovernment.com/

And here is undeniable the proof from that link:

Quote:

It is also curious that Wikileaks would begin these leaks on November 28th, 2010 which is the 332nd day of the year which resulted in the big media frenzy on November 29th, 2010 which is the 333rd day of the year. It is also worth noting that on November 28th, 2010 that there are 33 days left in the year on that day. The priest class elite love to pull off operations on days with intriguing numerological significance and this appears to be yet another one of these operations.

:rolling eyes:

I believe JA said we're going to see very soon releases pertaining to a large bank. Corporation releases to follow those.

siamdave wrote:

Am I the only one wondering if there isn't something a bit fishy with this Wikileaks stuff?

...

I hope so.

Perhaps we can all take assurance that no grand conspiracies have been revealed so far.  A member of the Royal Family is revealed to be an upper class twit? American diplomats say things in private to each other that is different from what they say in public? Oh my! But feel free to find a conspiracy theory by the absence of one, SiamDave, and make sure you let Jesse Ventura, former Governor of Minnesota and  WWF authority, know of what you find.

Meanwhile, Private Manning, alledgedly responsible for releasing the infamous WikiLeaks helicopter assault leak, has been in SOLITARY CONFINEMENT since May, and has been denied a visit by his parents (his mother traveled from Wales to visit him).  He was one of over 3 million people who had access to this information.

Quote:

Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said WikiLeaks acted illegally in posting the material. Speaking in between calls to foreign capitals as she made amends for the posting of the unvarnished memos, Clinton said the administration was taking "aggressive steps to hold responsible those who stole this information."

Hey Hillary - I have a suggestion for you. Why don't you just use Facebook next time? They have groups that big, so it's no problem, and they understand about the need for privacy too. They probably would have done a better job than your own ass-clown network.

Private Manning has harmed no one. In fact, he has probably saved more lives with his actions than any that may be harmed.

President Obama - winner of the Nobel Peace Prize, instigator of The Surge in Afghanistan, still has Gitmo open for business.

F*****' Americans! Why are you even surprised? And when will you ever learn?

sanizadeh wrote:

NoDifferencePartyPooper wrote:

Wikileaks 'Cablegate' Psychological Operation Justifies Zionist War Propaganda

http://www.roguegovernment.com/

And here is undeniable the proof from that link:

Quote:

It is also curious that Wikileaks would begin these leaks on November 28th, 2010 which is the 332nd day of the year which resulted in the big media frenzy on November 29th, 2010 which is the 333rd day of the year. It is also worth noting that on November 28th, 2010 that there are 33 days left in the year on that day. The priest class elite love to pull off operations on days with intriguing numerological significance and this appears to be yet another one of these operations.

:rolling eyes:

Typical of the end of is nigh set the article argues that the infallible and omniscient powers that secretly run the world simply could not be undermined by some lowly corporal in the US army. This it is argued proves the case that a larger conspiracy is behind the scenes.

What is most interesting about this thinking is that it is premised on the idea that secret cabal running the world is an all powerful all seeing omnipotent and ultimately unstoppable force. The basic psychology of this is driven by a kind of elitism where a few rebel cognoscenti are privy to the secrets of the elite who would save the world if it were not for the ignorant sheeple, who the enlightened few are superior too, by benefit of the fact that they hold the key to the "truth".

The idea that the powers that run the world are vulnerable and mostly incompetent is totally antithetical to their world view. They resent the idea that lowly corporals might undermine the mythology upon which their sense of superiority rests, because their mythology requires an all powerful enemy whose secrets they alone are aware of.

Their ultimate message is of total disempowerment in a world of super-powerful super-intelligent overlords who are invulnerable. Not a world where a hapless individual like the Corporal Bradley's of the world can make their mark, against the odds.

Indeed what we see here in these cables is just how much of the goings on behind the scenes are reflected in mainstream reporting of events, and how mundane are the machinations of evil. Evil, itself is quite evident everywhere, and banal, as Hanna Arendt pointed out. It is not surprising that there are few surprises.

Noam Chomsky: WikiLeaks Cables Reveal "Profound Hatred for Democracy on the Part of Our Political Leadership"

I decided not to post an excerpt - better to read the whole thing.

the chomsky interview from democracy now was great!  great analysis of the significance of the leaks!

What i think is interesting about the leaks is more what it doesn't say than what it does.  It shows most us diplomats really are seeing things through a lens of power.  Also, people are making a huge fuss about iran, but there is no new info there, proving once again the US really has no idea what is going on with their nuclear program or their weapons programs making their assertions on it meaningless.

GORDON DUFF: SELLING WIKILEAKS, SELLING HATE FOR AMERICA: VETERANS TODAY:

"Wikileaks has divided the world into two camps, those who love Wikileaks as a slap in the face for the United States and those who recognize the stench of Wikileaks for what it is, simple Israeli propaganda."

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/11/30/gordon-duff-selling-wikileaks-se...

JOE QUINN: Wiki-Leaks Serves Israeli Agenda Of Demonizing Iran: Veterans Today:

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/11/30/joe-quinn-wiki-leaks-serves-isra...

"What is happening is that Wiki-leaks is being promoted by the media in order to sell the same old lies, except that now the lies are coming sugar-coated, with a ‘whistle-blower’ gloss to better enable digestion. The lies themselves don’t frustrate me so much anymore, and I can understand why the general public are fooled, but I have to admit to being disappointed at how effortlessly the Wiki-leaks poison is being swallowed by so many supposedly alternative news sites."

GORDON DUFF: “WIKI-MURDERS” IN IRAN, SIGNAL “FALSE FLAG” TERROR: VETERANS TODAY:

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/11/29/gordon-duff-wiki-murders-in-iran...

"An attack on American forces in the Persian Gulf is being planned.  Wikileaks is an integral part of the operation.  Step one was the current “diplomatic” Wikileak.  Step two, the brazen “Mossad style”murders in Iran."

GORDON DUFF: WIKILEAKS, A TOUCH OF ASSANGE AND THE STENCH OF AIPAC: VETERANS TODAY:

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/11/27/gordon-duff-wikileak-predictions...

"Wikileaks is an intelligence operation to weaken and undermine the American government, orchestrated from Tel Aviv, using dozens of operatives, dual citizens, some at the highest authority levels, spies for Israel.   Through leaking carefully selected intelligence along with proven falsified documents, all fed to a controlled press, fully complicit, Wikileaks is, in fact, an act of war against the United States."

Because around here they accept things as they are or run roughshod over attempts to prove otherwise.  'Tis a tough slog.

siamdave wrote:

1. the link you give does not link to any article with any quotes, just the front page of a website with a lot of stuff on it. Are you just making this shit up or what?

The link was in the original post, not mine. Here is the full link for the scroll- and click-challenged people who write nonsense before trying to find a source:

http://www.roguegovernment.com/Wikileaks_%22Cablegate%22_Psychological_O...

Quote:

2. In the larger sense, your "rolling eyes" "reasoning" (I use the term quite loosely here) appears to be that since some website you appear to think is a 'conspiracy theory' website questions the Wikileaks, that therefore Wikileaks must be reliable. Which says somewhat more about your own 'reasoning' process than anything else. If you're ever required to offer any similar thoughts to anybody with intelligence you need to impress, I'd advise staying away from that line of 'thought'

Similarly, If you are unhappy with any sort of imaginary reasoning or conclusions you want to draw from my posts, feel free to stay away from this site.

I'm curious about these Swedish rape charges or accusations.

Remember when Ralph Nader wrote "Unsafe At Any Speed" about the Corvair and GM tried to brand him as a homosexual among other things. Anyway Nadar went to a successful career and GM basically went bankrupct. The patterns are strikingly similiar.

Wikileaks and the Toxic Acid in Every Direction - Except Israel
Wednesday, 01 December 2010 12:19

Let us ponder for a second about the meaning of 'leaking'. When something is leaking, it is usually understood that some fluid substance that is supposed to be flowing in a certain direction, is escaping from its designed route because of a defect in the structure that was built to guide it. Usually, if you have a leaking pipe in your water system, your main problem is that you are unable to control the flow of it, and water goes into directions where you don't want it to be going. 

However, the definition of 'Wikileaking' seems to be following entirely different laws of nature. Indeed, the information is flowing away from the secret pipelines it was originally guided into. However, the strange thing about 'Wikileaking' is that Israel, a country widely known for its secret dealings and cunning intelligence service, is managing to keep dry feet in spite of the massive political flooding allegedly caused by Wikileaks' founding father, Julian Assange.

The lack of control that is so typical of other forms of 'leaking', certainly does not seem to apply to 'Wikileaking' - instead it looks like it is under perfect control, and carefully guided in such a way that it only serves the interests of one state, namely that of Israel.

Assange takes a leak, the world jumps up

Barely a country in the world that is actively involved in Middle East and other international affairs, either by choice or by geographical location, has been spared by Assange's latest opening of his Pandora's box of revelations. It is hard to visit a news source these days, without the word 'Wikileaks' jumping into your view at least once, and revealing some scandalous backdoor deal, secret agreement or embarrassing hidden relationship between governments who on the surface seem to be diametrically opposed to each other in the political spectrum.

Since the list of countries that have faced these embarrassments includes Obama's United States, many anti-imperialist activists around the world have been anxiously awaiting the latest leaks, and are now engaging in discussions about the implications of many of these so-called astounding revelations. Julian Assange is being hailed worldwide by people who are critical of their governments as the activist who was able to embarrass governments, helped only by a small group of independent supporters. His star is rising rapidly, and although sounds of cynicism can be heard here and there, the overwhelming noise resounding in progressive circles is one of loud cheers for this long-awaited 'champion of the ordinary man'.

What many seem to fail to be noticing however, is that although the list of countries that were painfully embarrassed by the publication of their secret cables, memo's and meetings, includes the Palestinian Authority, Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states, Egypt and the United States - where Obama is suffering from serious problems from a 'Tea Party' he was not invited to - one of the main actors in the dirty political game of Middle East animosities and alliances is remaining completely unharmed: Israel.

Much ado about old news

What are Wikileaks telling us? That Saudi Arabia poured oil on the flames against Iran? We already knew that. That Abbas' administration as well as the Egyptian government were very well informed about Israel's genocidal military assault on Gaza in the winter of 2009? There is nothing new about that either. The list goes on and on, and the main victims of embarrassment are leaders of Arab governments. But what is so new about that? Doesn't almost every Arab in the world who reads newspapers, watches Al Jazeera and has a certain degree of understanding of Middle East politics, already know about the extent and scope of secret relations in the region? Even many people living outside of the Arab world are largely aware of this.

Oana Lungescu, spokeswoman for NATO, called Wikileaks' revelations about the presence of American nuclear missiles in Europe - mainly the Netherlands, Belgium and Germany - 'dangerous' on November 29. Why exactly would something be dangerous, if it is a commonly known fact that has now only been confirmed yet again? Didn't earlier revelations have no effect, so why would these new ones do that? Does the fact that Obama, Sarkozy, and the Chinese leadership all have condemned Wikileaks and its founder, make any significant difference?

The answer to these questions is: yes, these revelations are indeed causing unpleasant domestic situations all around the world, and creating electoral problems and other political embarrassments for governments everywhere - except in one place, namely Israel.

No worries: Assange will tell you who to trust

Julian Assange, 'master revealer' of international conspiracies, apparently also is highly irritated by people questioning the events of 9/11. In an interview in the Belfast Telegraph on July 19, 2010, he was asked about the 9/11 attack, and answered: "I'm constantly annoyed that people are distracted by false conspiracies such as 9/11, when all around we provide evidence of real conspiracies, for war or mass financial fraud." 

Apparently Julian 'Robin Hood' Assange finds the story of pilots who fly an airplane full of people straight into a humongous skyscraper full of unsuspecting citizens, just because some hysterical hijacker is holding a box-cutter against their jugular veins, perfectly believable. He apparently also believes that when you fly an airplane into the top floors of one of the world's largest buildings, in a horizontal direction, the building will not only spontaneously collapse all the way down to its basement in a vertical direction, but will indeed be transformed into a powdery dust, not leaving behind even one piece of debris that is larger than a ballpoint pen - except of course the completely undamaged passport of one of the alleged hijackers, that was miraculously found among the ruins of the World Trade Center. 

Unless you, dear reader, also believe in fairy tales, this should certainly make you wonder. So much for your credibility, mr Assange.

Cui Bono?

In politics there is a golden rule for understanding what may be the driving force behind unexpected mysterious events. This rule is known as 'Cui Bono', which is Latin for: 'who benefits?'

Browse through all the news sources available on the latest Wikileaks revelations, and try to find even only one revelation that actually damages Israel, even though so many of the revealed documents are directly or indirectly connected to Middle East politics, and to a large extent to Israeli affairs. Did you find any document among them that either creates difficulties for the government of the zionist entity, or even slightly embarrasses it? Think about it well, you will find that the answer is a very simple "No".

Does it not strike you as interesting or remarkable, that many of the revelations about Middle East affairs are of direct benefit to Israel? If it hasn't, read them again, and give it some thought.

Cui bono? Israel. Therefore, who is the prime suspect behind the phenomenon 'Julian Assange'? You tell me, or just prove me wrong by showing me one Wikileaks document that would make Binjamin Netanyahu and his rogue companions scratch their heads, or even become only slightly uncomfortable. My suspicion grows stronger every day, and is not deterred by Interpol's announcement on December 1 that Julian Assange is wanted for an alleged sexual harassment case in Sweden. It is obvious that he is a man who has angered many people of power, regardless of whether he is actually guilty in that harassment case or not. The problem however is that none of these people of power are Israeli, and that says a lot. You never bite the hand that feeds you, do you, Julian?

Source:  http://www.docjazz.com/index.php/articles/43-analysis/80-wikileaks

Cueball wrote:

The problem with this thesis is that it assumes that there is something more we need to know about Israel. 

The problem with your statement is that you assume we already know everything we should about her.  Another problem is the a tens of millions of individuals who would love to see top secret classified leaks regarding Israeli involvement in false flags throughout history (USS-Liberty, 9-11, 7-7, Madrid, London Tube...etc) 

wrong thread

I wrote a letter to the President of the University of Calgary to complain about Tom Flanagan's comments. Truly disgusting!!

Elizabeth Cannon '[email protected]'