Stephen Harper's Conservatives Are Negotiating A Perimeter Security Agreement with the US..

Hmm so how long does it take for this to slide into a lessening of our labour laws, quality(CSA) standards, human rights legislation, and having to carry ID on our persons having to show them to the merest whisper of a 'request' from the law?

All to 'merge' our system to theirs? And an agreement for Mexico which Im guessing means the american army/police and criss cross the border if they want to in order to get someone or 'keep the peace'

I protest. The title implies negotiation and not capitulation. It's one thing to abdicate resonsibility and another to do it under duress. The one is stupid and the second is rape. Legally there is a distinction but hard to prove. I would hope that the failing empire down south's faults can be soon removed with a stroke of the pen just as they have stolen our rights from the PMO office.

So soon enough all of our "common consumer products" will be under the control of the bought and paid for FDA.

Where the hell are the opposition parities? If we don't get rid of this pyshopath soon we won't have a country left!

milo204 wrote:

governments always take baby steps with these kinds of initiatives.  So it starts with security, then comes harmonizing regulations (we lose to USregulations) then of course the laws have to be harmonized, then the tax structure.  Then we have to give up health care because it's "anti competition" or something....and as usual, they don't care what people think of it.  Business wants it so they get it.

Just like with climate change legislation, taxes, foreign policy, etc etc etc.

It's exactly like the Security Prosperity Partnership negotiated under the Bush Administration. The SPP was all of these agenda items bundled together. What Obama has done is to keep the agenda but break it up, as you said. So first, the "security" component comes in. Then regulations, and it keeps going.

Incidentally, the whole SPP implementation was originally supposed to be complete this calendar year.

We have already harmonized most of our labour laws etc with the "average" US state.  We are not quite to the level to the right to work states in stripping workers of any rights but that is the clear direction.

The only difference this will make for the average Canadian is now the US enforcement agencies will be able to act more openly.  IMO the Empire's War on Drugs is coming north of the border in the guise of this security agreement.  We already have various of the drug enforcement agencies working inside BC on a limited basis so if the door is kicked open look soon to Canadian citizens being chased by American agencies operating in Canada.  

All the security of the empire with no vote for President. I love this 21st century democracy.  

bobby boondoggle wrote:

Where the hell are the opposition parities? If we don't get rid of this pyshopath soon we won't have a country left!

Why are you pretending we still do?

This is the last step. The end of Canada as a nation. The completion of our transition to abject banana republic, under the aegis of the American Empire.

Quote:

I think we have to realize that Canada is not immortal; but, if it is going to go, let it go with a bang rather than a whimper.

it is sadder than Trudeau could imagine. Canada is gone - without so much as a whimper.

The working class in Canada, the USA and Mexico should be united on this one. We need to make our own rules and put forward our on propositions.

the United Socialist Peoples of North America, sounds like a catchy new name.

I have no affiliation to a any Bourgeois country, other then the ones they imposed on me and I need to survive, in the world they control.

The Working class, that are segregated by borders, erected and enforced by the bourgeoisie, should do everything they can to bring them down.

Wither you like it or not, the bourgeoisie will be looking to save their capitalist system and look for profits. They will do this by working more collaboratively. So either you start to take precautions or you get trampeled on.

Maybe he's going there to say " In light of the fact that any country the USA touches turns to garbage just like Iraq being a case in point or more recently Egypt, you can take your perimeter idea and shove it where the ...."

At this point if Canadians can't fathom how treacherous Harper is, turning us into a US prison state then fuck'em they truly deserve what they get. Actually anyone that votes conservative is a traitor to this country there are so many agreements made that serve US interests rather than Canadian that are militarily based it's not funny.

Opps I keep forgetting tho it's the old people of this country that are the problem..as the young don't have a say...just wait till conservatives demand the thumbs of all Canadians for there data banks for a US agreement..have fun with yer little iopods and video games then Canuck....

The direction we are going in is very clear but in fairness it was predicted way back before 9-11 -- back in 1987 during the Free Trade Debate.

Having more trade with the US, the Conservatives of the time said, will bring us added prosperity. And, if you believe the bean counters of the time it did in at least some respects. But there was a price, and that was in order to get a bit more from the US relationship we gave up our attention elsewhere. We became more dependent.

The US has different interests than Canada and some of those are security. In exchange for its global empire, it also has a different threat level than most other countries. Yes, you could argue that the US is paranoid but as they say, even paranoids have enemies. In fact, paranoids become so obnoxious that they gather more enemies than others do. Without getting in to long explanations and debates about the US responsibility in all this, there are many that wish them harm and they do have real and present security threats. And ultimately you are either with them or against them, certainly in their perspective and rhetoric but that polarization also makes some of that a reality.

So back to the Canadian reality. Canada, having tied itself to the US is facing very limited and difficult choices. The US is attaching new conditions to the benefits of the relationship-- one that has never been between equals except in the fantasies of the most optimistic Canadians. Those new conditions are not negotiable because they are bottom line "security" demands from our rather paranoid neighbour that actually does have enemies. As those demands escalate they bind us closer increasing our dependence while at the same time driving us further from our other alternatives.

We get to 2011 and the security perimeter and then suddenly some Canadians are surprised by the realization that in order for any access to this behemoth we have come to depend on, we will have to give up very significant key elements of national independence: immigration, security, military purchases, integration. Immigration is a fundamental characteristic of sovereignty (ask any Quebec official or even any tenant or homeowner), it is the ability to choose who you invite in your home and who you don't. No country can claim to be independent after giving that up.

So it seems that the predictions of the anti-Free Trade forces (who had the support of a majority of Canadians but in our twisted FPTP system managed to lose) are in fact coming to pass. The most dire, extreme statements even anti-free trade activists wanted not to believe, are true. The level of integration in the relationship and the highly managed and codified arrangement (not free trade at all) is so deep that extrication is a difficult option.

Now Canada is faced with a difficult choice:

1) Further integration with the eventual complete loss of sovereignty in any meaningful way (Canada will continue to be an independent country in name but only that). Every head of power economic, security, taxation, social policy will be integrated with the exception that we will never get a vote where the real power is held. A true colony once again.

2) Independence can still be accomplished. The cost would be to seriously damage our economy and everyone would pay a price. Those who are wealthy will lose business opportunities and a tremendous amount of their wealth and the vast majority who are not will lose most social services as our standard of living collapses. Eventually, with the resources Canada has, assuming the US does not retake them by military force, we could rebuild relationships with the outside world and recover to a good standard of living likely within 2 generations.

I guess for those concerned about the second option. It will not happen. Those who are wealthy control enough of our political life and there is more than enough propaganda to tell people there is no choice other than integration. The wealthiest do just fine in a colony and they control enough that a colony is what we shall be. Perhaps we can look at emancipation in a couple generations.

For those who are not wealthy this will be a rough ride for a couple generations no matter what. Best advice is do what you can to build the best advantages for your children because this is a class society and if your kids cannot start with advantages their lives are screwed. It might be good to also try to keep the seeds of any Canadian democratic ideas alive in the culture as much as possible in the hope they may be resurrected one day. Even a century of dictatorship does not wipe everything.

On the other hand if anyone in your family have European connections and possible EU citizenship consider that this is the next generation's free world-- even as they are under attack from radical capitalists they are fighting and likely will retain some shreds of democracy and social equality.

People will have to take a long view of Canada in order to be optimistic about this country socially.

Of course in the meantime there will be lots of money to be made for the richest 2% or so... It will be their golden years.

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

So it seems that the predictions of the anti-Free Trade forces (who had the support of a majority of Canadians but in our twisted FPTP system managed to lose) are in fact coming to pass. The most dire, extreme statements even anti-free trade activists wanted not to believe, are true. The level of integration in the relationship and the highly managed and codified arrangement (not free trade at all) is so deep that extrication is a difficult option.

I fought that fight and I was told by many that my ideas that we would inevitably be forced to harmonize our laws to fit with American business and environmental regulations were off the wall.  The deal did not say any such thing. Even I only argued the inevitability of an totally integrated economy and did not predict our descent into a police state colony while are economy is turned into a combinations of providing tar sands oil for America and building war machines for "our" military.

When Joe 'Ferret Face' Lieberman speaks,the megalomaniacs of the Harper regime listen....(Everyone else laughs)

"The Liberals, who when in government signed a security co-operation agreement with the United States, were careful not to condemn outright the talks themselves - but only to raise concern about the process."

A lot of these treacherous agreements have been seeded by the Liberals....more proof that the lib/con are one of the same playing each other off on the Canadian public (good cop-bad cop)...how much proof does the Canadian need? Just paving the road for each to follow...Do Canadians look dumb or what?

I would bet that if the NDP became a real threat to these right wing conmen that the talk would be about a lib/con coalition.

Sean,

Don't  fight the inevitable joining of the Working Class in North America. Take precautions, making sure that a Socialist joining takes place before the Capitalist impose their will on us.

Conservatives are known for their butt kissing of yankee ass..they did it with the arrow ..almost did it with MDA satellite technology and they basically hand the baby out with the bath water when it comes to economics. Those rat bastard conservative supporters agree with this stupidity and support it .

What I find really disturbing is now were talking annexing a country with anothers military ..like a blockade…using border security and the economy as an excuse. Face it ..it’s treason and any conservative that supports this bullshit is a “Benedict Arnold’ traitor to there country…killing little kids in Afghanistan isn’t good enough ass kissing for the conservative they have to take the whole country down with them. Totally and utterly disgraceful that the supporters of this treacherous party don’t give a shit about their own country like that. Isn’t it?

All hail the social democratic ideal as constantly presented by a person who has a revolutionary's handle.

Rah Rah NDP Rah Rah NDP There Fidel is that good enough for you this morning.  

Tell me Fidel have you ever worked on a winning NDP campaign?  

Canadians are overwhelmingly against Deep Integration

NoDifferencePartyPooper wrote:

Canada Negotiating Perimeter Security Deal with US

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/canada-negotiating-perimete...

"Stephen Harper's Conservatives are negotiating a perimeter security agreement with the United States:

'We intend to work together to defend and protect the land, maritime, air and cyberspace domains of both the United States and Canada and to enhance the security of our integrated transportation and communications networks,' says a draft version of a declaration on a possible deal obtained by the Globe and Mail..'

This will be yet another 'agreement with consent' to further massive US penetration and control of Canada's security state. This and the security agreement with Israel are significant developments in the national security state and its linkage to greater imperial surveillance power and control

 

On the one hand, I'm all for anything that expands the people's freedom of mobility, and Canada further economic integration with the US seems to me, at least in princple based on what I know of it, to be a good thing.

Based on the same principle though, the idea of a security perimeter seems like a bad thing. It sounds like a trade off between further opening our borders to the US in exchange for closin them off to the rest of the world. It's a little like the kid being forced to choose between two friends.

I would say Canada should offer a more open border to the US on the condition that the US not impose closed borders between Canada and the rest of the world. We should make it a 'take-it-or-leave-it' proposal with no time limit, willing to welcome the US into this new agreement whenever the US is prepared to accept it. Sure it might never accept it, but then no one could blame Canada for not trying to open up to the US, but rather for the US for trying to force Canada to close its borders to the rest of the world.

Not a very good trade off in my opinion.

[url=http://lecanadian.com/2011/02/06/security-perimeter-harper-governments-b... Perimeter: Harper government’s Big Lie to Canadians… and Americans[/color][/url]

Quote:

It is apparent that Stephen Harper and Barack Obama are talking in deceptive legal fictions designed “fool the masses” who are not schooled in law.

Just as colonial elites of Europe sought to fool the First Nations of Canada, and the United States with “treaties” with no legal integrity, the descendants of those elites have sought to hatch a similar scam.

It is apparent to borrow words of the First Nations, that these leaders and their operatives “are speaking with forked tongues”.

When Stephen Harper and Barack Obama refer to “common security border arrangements” they actually mean ‘NO BORDER’.

There would no longer be an international boundary between the United States and Canada, if the United States government through Homeland Security effectively controlled the Canadian border, along with national security arrangements and the oversight of the implementation of domestic laws including those on privacy.

The Harper government is selling-out the complete package of the remainder on Canadian sovereignty, while having the audacity to claim the Agreement they pursue with the American president, “has nothing to do with sovereignty”.

The Harper government’s claim according as defined by the Canadian Criminal Code, is nothing short of [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treason]‘treason’.[/url]

Wikipedia notes than in Oran’s Dictionary of the Law (1983) defines treason as “…[a]…citizen’s actions to help a foreign government overthrow, make war against, or seriously injure the [parent nation].”

The Big Lie.

ACTION ALERT: Say no to North American perimeter security!

That Tory opinionator who called me the other day from Ottawa didn't say anything aboot perimeter security. No, her question was, what do I think of the gun registry, and would I consider voting Tory? Apparently they don't want to know what I think about them  erasing the border behind our backs. It's funny but in a strange kind of way.

That were no opinionator, Mr. interlocutor, that were a Conservative hack. Tories went out with Bob Stanfield. See Geoffrey Stevens bio on Dalton Camp to see why one should not confuse the two.  There was a historical break with decency.