Socialist Party of Ontario Founding Convention

Victory for the left fine.  But be realistic.  There will be no socialist revolution.  The left needs to adapt to changing circumstances if they are going to be successful.  They need to evolve.  If that means compromising on a few things here and there, so be it.  To be so stubborn and uncompromising is not only naive, it is the trait of people who have no place leading anyone.

Use the word Socialist as often as possible. Do not deviate for it's meaning. Don't let people tell you that you should not use the word. It has a very specific meaning and that meaning is the key to the policies your group should undertake.

Anything other then Socialist is not socialism.

Do not try to use the Keynes economic formula, It has already been used and has come up as a failure. As the proof is the Capitalists abandoned it years ago as it does not work if there is not large profits to pay for it all. If it was working so great then they would never have left it in the dust bin of history.

Stick to Socialism and what it means, the Social ownership of the means of production, democratically controlled, used for the good of Society. The uniting of the worlds working class as one.

Democracy Democracy Democracy. No political parties, Governments change as needed, not according to set time tables. No leader, or leaders. Counsels that must first talk to the people before any decision is made. It maybe slow but so what, decisions must be thought out properly.

Do not advance Nationalism, as it is a fascist ploy.

Have a plan on how the Productive forces will build the things we need like housing, food supply, clothing, education.

Reformulate how a Government is set up. Do not model it after our current bourgeois set up.

Never us Capitalist economic models to find the funding... Instead, figure out how the means of production will be used by the productive forces to build the society that the citizens democratically decide they  needed.

For example, in Toronto the Transit system..The people democratically decide what they want through suggestions and debates, the experts are brought in to figure out what is possible and then add in their two cents. Then a plan is drawn up. Then the productive forces gather the needed resources to build it. Since the means of production are socially owned, we can use any resource at our disposal No delays, no cost over runs. The only thing you need to do is marshal the people into action.

Have a well thought out plan on how the Capitalist economy will be discarded and how a Socialist economy will be built.

Time lines, time lines , time lines.....

How will things be distributed. Were do you get the food, how do you get a house or apartment?

Figure out how the police will be disbanded and how a new police force will be built. What is the model?

Figure out how you will put the Capitalists on trial for the crimes against humanity they have committed.

What will a judicial system look like under Socialism?

You want a Socialist voice in Canada. These are but a fraction of the things you need to do.

Why not a new national, versus Ontario party?  I have a few NDP FB friends who have quit the federal party in disgust over a myriad of issues, many of them revolving around decisions Layton has taken. I've also read a few socialist websites quite critical of the NDP - some of these are a few years old, and one of them is the NDP Socialist Caucus. The general consensus is that the NDP has moved too close to the centre and has abandoned its traditional support on the left. I can give examples of specific concerns these folks have if requested (although it'll take time to gather all these together).

Whatever success you have in organizing a new socialist party will be wasted once you run up against the jackals within the ruling political apparatus.  And then there's the media to contend with if you ever manage to do something to capture their attention.  You can't expect to lay anything at the feet of this well entrenched and mutually supportive power structure and hope for anything other than being stepped on or ignored.  Whatever finally emerges in the form of policy would stand the best chance of exposure by taking it directly to the people via the street, in combination with a list of the existing political establishment's treacheries that should never be reconciled with.

What about a democratic socialist party situated somewhere between the NDP and Socialism, kind of where the NDP once was. Perhaps emphasize democratic and electoral reform foremost. Without a broad base of civic minded and engaged citizens, I don't see much hope for anything. Then advance a social and economic justice agenda. And don't forget the party part. My biggest disappointment with party politics has been the absence of passion, joy, and fun. Changing the world should be blissful. 

How about the Stephen Lewis Party. He calls himself a democratic socialist, he has name recognition. Everybody loves him...

waiting for the Overwhelming.

Can I do that at the beach?

Boom Boom wrote:

Actually, I think I get it. An Ontario Socialist Party,  Quebec Solidaire, and other provincial Socialist Parties.... wow, could have a huge impact. I withdraw my suggestion for a Canada Socialist Party. A Network Of Provincial Socialist Parties could have an overwhelming influence on the federal NDP and even the federal Liberals.

I don't know Boom Boom.  They're not listening anymore, and I don't expect they ever will.  They canned their own internal socialist movement after all.

haven't the impossibilists beaten you to the name?

Boom Boom wrote:

And if this new movement of provincial socialists can take root, I fail to see how even the most jaded federal NDP folks can fail to be influenced by what's developing provincially.

It's not the jaded ones that need convincing, but rather the pie eyed believers who haven't a clue among them.

Ya, do not concentrate on winning elections... Concentrate on building concensis in the working class...By all means intervien in the bourgeois elections with working class candidates, but winning is not the priority.

When the conditions are right, as they will be just look at Toronto and what Ford is doing, you will be ready with the answers and the experience.

Cause if you concentrate on winning, you turn into the NDP...

Another thing... the world working class is ready for a Socialist answer to the Capitalist problem.

Again in Toronto, people gravitated around Ford because he gave a simple answer to the Capitalist problem. He phrased it by saying he was going to "Stop the Gravy Train".

It's a such a generalized statement that people could put their frustrations into it.

In the end his answer to the Capitalist problem is to make the world more Capitalist. This in fact will just piss people off even more.

You have to be ready for that time with a Socialist answer. Other wise you will have religious leaders and every other kind of demagogue fill the void.

Be ready, be prepared....

Perhaps Canadians have lived in a democratic wasteland for so long they have forgotten--or perhaps they never knew--that the purpose of a political party is not necessarily to govern or to "win power," but to earn purchase on the public political discourse. Since the Socialist wing of the NDP has been refused this by the party apparatus, it makes sense to go it alone. Running candidates is part of that, of course, but why must "impact" remain divorced from "discourse"? And why should a new political party be judged at all on its showing in its first ever election?

Rather than votes, I think the biggest challenge a socialist party faces is avoiding the trap that so many similar socialist groups/associations/parties in Canada fall into, which is failing to diversify its governing members and base. If this is going to be yet another left-wing party of old white men, I'd say that Ontario doesn't need them. I don't know Michael Laxer, but I've been led to believe that he's aware of this challenge.

My first year political science course (dark ages) accentuated that two of the roles of political parties are interest articulation and interest aggregation.

My point to Michael is why is he (or one of his group) not running for the presidency of the Ontario NDP and campaigning on the points raised in his groups letter? It is tough to bring people together, but real political action includes mobilization. In France at the moment the cantonal elections are taking place. In a canton near Bordeaux over 2,000 people came out to hear a Green candidate speak to a public meeting about local issues. There are not 100,000 people in the canton. The election itself was a huge letdown, nationally only 44 per cent of the population bothered to vote. But somewhere in the French body politic people are stirring. Nuclear power which provides 80 of all electricity has people asking serious probing questions.

Are Michael and his Ontario Socialists going to get things moving? I would be interested in hearing from people who think that the potential for a new socialist party is rooted in real experience. Certainly real issues are being ignored. But is a new party the way to engage people to raise them? 

duncan cameron wrote:

Are Michael and his Ontario Socialists going to get things moving? I would be interested in hearing from people who think that the potential for a new socialist party is rooted in real experience. Certainly real issues are being ignored. But is a new party the way to engage people to raise them? 

The NDP has had abundant opportunity to address issues that're important working people, marginalized groups, and leftists who feel disenfranchised by the mainstream so-called left.  Why beat a dead horse?  The NDP - ONDP in particular - have made it clear that they can't work with big labour, are unwilling or unable to realistically represent the interests of us plebes, and simply can't garner the energy to 'bring it' to provincial and federal politics.

While, like Catchfire, I suspect that encouraging diversity of membership will be a problem, I'm kinda excited to see how things go with this new party.

Congrats for this founding!  I hope it does start to have success along the model of Quebec Solidaire.

From an Ontarian living in the West.

@ Snert post 24

Bro,you gotta get your head out of the sand...there are no ideological pure left winged parties... And were did you see me ask for an ideological party to be built or for that matter a party in and of itself...

So basicly you didn't really understand what I am calling for and your ignorance makes you spout off with drivle.

Why would I want to compramise with people that are trying to exploit me?

What  points should I compromise on, something like this? OK guys you can exploit me, but you know jsut make my taxes a little lower. Or maybe this, Ok guys you can exploit me but you know make my rent a little cheaper..Or this, ok guys you can exploit men but you know just don't polute the evironment so much. or maybe like this, Ok guys you can exploit me but you know, don;t make my health payments so high.

You mean I should compromise with the peole that want to exploit me cause that would be fair. You know, the middle ground. Cause I should take into account the fact that they feel they deserve to hold me down and I should accept people for what they are.

ya I should compramise, cause I wouldn't want to piss those exploiters off, they have feelsing to.

I guess three months have elapsed and it's time to come back to rabble.ca.

I think that the impact of the Socialist Party could be positive or negative largely based on one single strategic issue: will it field candidates in constituencies where progressives are in contention? If the answer is "no," then I think the party will be a net asset to the Ontario political scene. If the party limits its candidates only to constituencies that have no chance of electing a progressive (probably about 75), there is no real downside to it entering the process. If, on the other hand, it runs a bunch fo stunt candidates in ridings like Welland or Trinity-Spadina, it is only serving to move all things left-wing further to the margins.

The question then becomes, how can the party contribute positively? In my view, it can only contribute positively if it manages to have a high enough profile to actually raise issues, which means running candidates in pretty much all ?75? because basically the only way fringe parties get noticed is to run a ridiculous number of candidates. If the party simply wishes to field candidates in a handful of ridings, one must ask what utility these candidates will actually produce. Only 8% of Canadians are interested in who their local candidate is and, in all likelihood, that 8% are overwhelmingly located in rural ridings with strong local media or ridings with high profile rogue candidates like Beauce or Portneuf. If the party isn't interested in pulling that off, it would be well to ask what it thinks it's doing.

More positively, good luck Michael. I hope this allows you to express the views many of us hold but are outside the political mainstream.

Staurt, who cares what happens to all the other laft parties and how they place?  Oops sorry, better not field a candidate that might make people think voting for theNDP is awast of their time.

Risk of what? Maintaining the status quo?

A few doors away from Mackenzie House...I wonder if any historical symbolism behind that