Racism and Asian reaction

34 posts / 0 new

Tue, 2011-01-11 15:02

BlueFairy

I've been taking some continuing education courses for my profession and I've noticed the instructor often refused to answer my questions or bypassed me during class. I looked around and saw many Asian students sit very quietly and never even asked a question. I've also noticed the the instructor made every effort to get to know the white students and go and help them even when they werent asking questions or needing help.

I paid quite a bit of money for these courses and I just had to do whatever I could to get answers whether he liked me or not. My job depended on my knowing this material. I even asked him if he had anything against me just to let him know I didnt like his avoiding my questions.

I tried talking to some of the asian students in the class about my discomfort about the whole situation but either they did not care or avoided me. Some Asian student would just start holding conversation with the white students as if they did not see anything wrong.

This really brought back my college years, this sense of isolation and feeling different.

I was greatful enough one white student acknowledged the unfairness and tried to get the instructor to answer my questions, but needless to say I felt flustered and abandoned when I felt no support from my fellow Asians.

Do Asian people think they are white enough to condone such treatment?

If you are Asian, a minority or a feel discriminated against you should not pretend it doesnt exist. You need to speak out about it.

Are hearing this Asian people?!!

Issues Pages:

Anti-Racism

Tue, 2011-01-11 17:28

milo204

never pretend it doesn't exist, that just ensures it will continue! Maybe try approaching other people not in your class but who might have taken a class with this teacher? perhaps they'd be more likely to share their experience with you.

Sounds like this teacher is an ass.

Tue, 2011-01-11 17:49

takeitslowly

are you talking about Chinese or south asian? Its a chinese culture to not challenge "superiors" like, teachers. From my experience, non westernized chinese do not usually hang out with westernized chinese.

interesting "dictionary":http://www.yellowbridge.com/humor/kindofasian.php

Maybe thats why there werent a huge outrage over the Maclean's article "too asian", we are just not very united or activist as a enthic grouop..

Tue, 2011-01-11 18:48

mybabble

Are you sure it is because of being Asian is that what the instructor said because I am white and also find at times I am ignored or do not get the help I needed in class? I guess it can work both ways and would have been surprised to see the instructors reaction of being called a racist because you didn't get the help you needed. Students often speak out helping those who didn't get the instructors attention I've done it myself. Also being Asian is not being a minority group in Vancouver it is more the norm especially in the Universities where enrollment is mostly Asian and especially Chinese. You should feel right at home Vancouver is home away from home and Richmond airport makes the connection to China as easy as can be.

I was lost on UBC campus and who should come to my aid but a Asian student who went out of her way to help me find the way. She was extra nice. I was very thankful but we always don't get the help we need so it is great when we help others out, it makes a big difference.

Teachers are notorious for taking the easy way out if they think you are going to take up to much of their time they often leave you out.

And if you ask them if its because they are a rascist it will be a dead end.

Tue, 2011-01-11 18:52

Maysie

Welcome to babble BlueFairy.

Hey, this is a perfect chance to tell everyone about the new year's resolution that I made to not contribute so much to the anti-racism forum. I think I can be a big crabby pants here, and that my view interferes with processes that are better off without my snarky rejoinders. So, I will be moderating more and contributing less here.

That said, while in the anti-racism forum, having white folks sharing stories of encounters and adventures with Chinese or "Asian" people, and white folks sharing their understanding of various Chinese and Asian stereotypes and white folks saying that they too experience discrimination not unlike racism is really really really problematic. Particularly in a thread started by a presumably Asian person about consistent encounters with racism in the classroom setting.

And while I'm not totally convinced that this thread was started in good faith, I will let it go for now. I also feel pretty sure it doesn't belong in the anti-racism forum, but I will leave it be.

Tue, 2011-01-11 18:58

BlueFairy

I am not Chinese and who are the south Asians?

My original post said that I noticed the instructor only paying attention to the white students while the rest of the students he ignored. Also racism isnt reduced or gone because there seems to be a predominance of an ethnic population. We are living in a world with values becoming more or so homogenized by American media and I have to say people just get herded into some sort of social status quo. I have witnessed this growing up as a young asian girl in the south (North Carolina). I could only see this as a bystander but I saw my school subtly divided between black and white students while at the the same time promoting equally.

Nazism didnt happen because people didnt know any better. They were just following an excepted norm. Good people will do bad things because it was sanctioned by an authority. With that said, I dont find this reverse racism as common as someone might believe. However the distrust is growing and becoming tense particularly between black and white people, while mediated by a black president in the white house. I have seen this while spending some time with my friend who lives in Maryland. Since my friend is white, I was seeing this as a bystander, again.

Wed, 2011-01-12 06:32

Maysie

[THREAD DRIFT]

takeitslowly wrote:
Maybe thats why there werent a huge outrage over the Maclean's article "too asian", we are just not very united or activist as a enthic grouop..

Please don't reiterate tired racist stereotypes.

Student's union plans a boycott of Maclean's

Victoria City Council: the first city in Canada to make this a public issue

Toronto City Council asks for an apology from Maclean'sl

Vancouver City Council passes motion calling for an apology from Maclean's

Markham, Ontario city councillor demands an apology

Tony Wong at the straight.com: The Unbearable Lightness of Being Too Asian

Not White Enough: What the Maclean's article says about our country, our media and our schools: Shamelessmag.com

Havergal denounces the article and denies that the two students interviewed attended their school

Open letter from disceptare

UBC prof Henry Yu (this is a link to a note on Facebook)

Senator Vivian Poy re. Maclean's government funding

[/THREAD DRIFT]

Wed, 2011-01-12 13:30

BlueFairy

takeitslowly,

I just looked at the link you posted, and wow, what a dumb thing to post. First of all, I dont know anyone who falls into your list of stereotypes. Wake up and stop doing this to yourself and others.

Wed, 2011-01-12 14:05

takeitslowly

Okay, so lets talk about how we are all different and unique, and Asian students are all unique and have unique reaction to every individual situation. Um yeah. whats the point of this topic again? I really do feel that Chinese people are not politically active as a whole. As a transgender Chinese woman, I 've seen more Chinese Canadians actively promoting against same sex marriage and homosexuality being taught in school than about the articles from Maclean. I dont care if i am not supposed to ever assign any blame onto the Chinese community. Sorry if I violated this progressive rule. Out.

Wed, 2011-01-12 14:29

#10

BlueFairy

If you are a transgender I'm sure you must have had to face some obstacles of your own. However, just because you are a transgender or some other sort of minority does not give you the right to hop on this racial bandwagon, and it shouldnt give you the right to make racial stereotypes. It only legitimizes, condones and affirms false stereotypes, racism and this false notion there some sort or reverse racism when it's so minuscule compared to the actual racism that does exist.

Wed, 2011-01-12 14:58

#11

takeitslowly

I dont just face obstacles, i face legal, systemic oppression and marginalization. Thank you very much.

Iposted the link not because I totally believe in the stereotypes, they are for humour, as the address of the weblink stated. And dont tell me I cant talk about how chinese culture is like, is it a crime to say that chinese culture dictates that we should respect the elderly and our teacher? Completely ridiculous. And i can talk about my experience as a chinese person interacting with the chinese community, i dont know what every chinese person is like, and i dont speak for all or any chinese person other than myself, i dont care if you dont like hearing about my experience.

Anyways yeah, ban me. Bye.

Wed, 2011-01-12 18:08

#12

Maysie

BlueFairy, while disagreeing with other babblers is inevitable, calling someone's post dumb is bordering on a personal attack. Telling someone to "wake up" is also not okay. You're new, so to be clear, this is a warning from a moderator. Stop it.

I clearly don't agree with takeitslowly's perspective. But it's not okay to make the comments you did in post #7.

I didn't think this discussion was going to go well, due to the too-wide parameters. But I'm a hopeless optimist.

takeitslowly, I became involved with the Chinese Canadian National Council-Toronto Chapter a number of years ago. They were founded over 30 years ago as a reaction and response to a racist t.v. segment called "Campus Giveaway" produced by W5. Some of the founders of CCNC have been supportive of the anti-Maclean's and Roger's protests and calls for boycotts.

Maybe you will call those few dozen founders, all Chinese-Canadians (including immigrants, former immigrants, and folks born here) atypical. I would prefer to think of them as examples of Chinese Canadian activism. Head tax redress was another issue the Chinese community rallied around. And did I mention that CCNC grew from a small office in Toronto to a national organization that has 16 regional locations all across Canada?

I guess it depends if you want to look for confirmation of a stereotype, then you will probably find it, dismissing the "exceptions" as not fitting the world view that makes sense to you. And I don't mean you, takeitslowly. We all do it. Unlearning it is part of a challenge for me, as an activist. Plus, I teach this stuff.

................

Getting back to the thread topic, there are a number of reasons why any person of colour, or Aboriginal person, would ignore racism if it's happening to them, or to someone in a class with them, like the example in the OP. Such reasons could be easy or challenging to determine, since asking every person why or why not would be time consuming and not hugely helpful in a macro-way. But it's a worthy discussion, I think.

Off the top of my head I would say the power imbalance in the classroom, and the fact that the professor who's exhibiting racist behaviour is the one giving out the marks, that are connected to success in your chosen profession, BlueFairy, would be the biggest barrier.

And here I am yammering away when I said I'd post less. I'm working on it, folks.

Wed, 2011-03-23 19:29

#13

Truguy

mybabble wrote:

Are you sure it is because of being Asian is that what the instructor said because I am white and also find at times I am ignored or do not get the help I needed in class? I guess it can work both ways and would have been surprised to see the instructors reaction of being called a racist because you didn't get the help you needed. Students often speak out helping those who didn't get the instructors attention I've done it myself. Also being Asian is not being a minority group in Vancouver it is more the norm especially in the Universities where enrollment is mostly Asian and especially Chinese. You should feel right at home Vancouver is home away from home and Richmond airport makes the connection to China as easy as can be.

I was lost on UBC campus and who should come to my aid but a Asian student who went out of her way to help me find the way. She was extra nice. I was very thankful but we always don't get the help we need so it is great when we help others out, it makes a big difference.

Teachers are notorious for taking the easy way out if they think you are going to take up to much of their time they often leave you out.

And if you ask them if its because they are a rascist it will be a dead end.

This is an interesting observation. Vancouver and our universities have indeed been totally transformed as a result of our establishment's immigration policies. The Caucasians have certainly been displaced from their Southern Canadian cities and major institutions that is totally true. If however, this same situation had occurred in a place like Tokyo or Bangkok with the founding gene pool being displaced as a result of large in-migrations of another racial group, would we then call it Ethnic Cleansing? I think it's a safe assumption that the Caucasian people of these Canadian cities did not ask to be displaced from them.

Wed, 2011-03-23 19:40

#14

Maysie

Truguy wrote:
the founding gene pool being displaced

Wed, 2011-03-23 19:42

#15

Truguy

What do you mean there Maysie??

Wed, 2011-03-23 20:12

#16

Maysie

I think the more pertinent question is what the hell do you mean by that phrase, Truguy? And your post?

In the anti-racism forum of a left wing progressive website?

Hmm?

Wed, 2011-03-23 20:16

#17

Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

I don't think he meant the Squamish or the Chinese and Japanese prior to the exclusion laws.

Wed, 2011-03-23 20:17

#18

Truguy

Fair enough then. You are anti-racist correct? Ok, my race has been subjected to unbelievably vicous genocides by other races/peoples, but no anti-racist activists take up this particular cause. I want to reverse that...that's all. I don't want my people being subjected to programs of attemped genocides ever again. It shouldn't matter if you are left-wing/progressive Maysie. My race counts too, and genocides against my race cry out for recognition also.

Just as a side question. Do you all believe that it is possible to genocide a population without using actual physical violence to do so?? Most people have the idea that physical violence is the only manner in which to commit genocide, but there are 'non-violent' means to accomplish the same objective. What does everyone here think?

Thanks

Wed, 2011-03-23 20:29

#19

Truguy

Northern Shoveler wrote:

I don't think he meant the Squamish or the Chinese and Japanese prior to the exclusion laws.

Hi there Northern...Could you please elaborate a little? I don't quite understand what you are saying.

Cheers

Wed, 2011-03-23 20:32

#20

Maysie

Truguy wrote:
Do you all believe that it is possible to genocide a population without using actual physical violence to do so?? Most people have the idea that physical violence is the only manner in which to commit genocide, but there are 'non-violent' means to accomplish the same objective. What does everyone here think?

I think that the First Peoples of Turtle Island know more about various kinds of violent and non-violent genocide than you do.

I think that white folks not representing 100% of the populations of certain Canadian cities represents a huge and gigantic threat to you and your level of entitlement, Truguy.

I think that immigration and how Canada has changed over the past few decades scares the shit out of you.

And I think you're on the wrong website to spew your white supremacist hateful bullshit.

Wed, 2011-03-23 20:57

#21

Truguy

Wow, you are very hateful towards White people aren't you? Why do you hate my race of people?? All we want is a homeland for ourselves...just like the Asian and African people have for their peoples. Every race of people need their own homeland...Don't you agree?

Now, as far as White people not being the vast majority in our own countries bothering me goes, I would have to agree with you. We want our own home for our own people...everybody wants that. Why are you so hostile to my race achieving that fundamental right Maysie. I mean you are so pathalogically angry at me just because I am asserting very normal goals and outcomes for my people. Your anger just doesn't make sense from the perspective of the anti-racist agenda. Now, do you understand why an increasing number of decent people are beginning to see people such as yourself as viciously Anti-White?? It's really scary.

Yes, the native indians do know something of genocide...Their Asian ancestors invaded Europe about a thousand years ago and almost wiped my race off the planet. Please recognize our victimization also Maysie.

White supremacist?? Did you say White supremacist?? You mean in your opinion I'm a White supremacist. But you're just saying that to me because I'm White. Everybody knows that the term Anti-White-Supremacist is just a viscious code word for Anti-White.

Oh ya, and please stop all that swearing...it's really not befitting of this venue and these types of serious discussions Maysie.

Cheers

Wed, 2011-03-23 21:01

#22

ElizaQ

Obvious troll is obvious.

Wed, 2011-03-23 21:07

#23

Truguy

No, I don't think I'm a troll Q. I have some legitmate concerns here that deserve to be heard by the anti-racist contingent. I don't think that is fair what you are saying.

So let me put a fair question to you then:

Do you believe that my race should be allowed to have its own homeland exclusively for my race, like other races of peoples, or, are we morally obligated to accept non-Caucasian immigrants such that we become minorities in our countries??

I'm just curious how you guys think that's all. Come on, don't get your backs up so quickly. I'm really not that bad of a guy, I just care about my people and I don't want my people genocided...very understandable wouldn't you agree?

Wed, 2011-03-23 21:11

#24

Catchfire

Well that was thrilling. I hope, Truguy, it was as good for you as it was for me.

Wed, 2011-03-23 21:13

#25

ElizaQ

LOL

What a crack up. Thanks though, it's been rather dull tonight. Laughter is good for the soul.

For fun though I will answer your question.

No.

Wed, 2011-03-23 21:32

#26

MegB

Truguy, your views don't fit babble policy. I suggest that you click the link and read the policy - it's really important to understanding what we're all about here.

You don't have to agree with other babble contributors, but you do need to understand the basic concepts of progressive and anti-imperialist thought. If you have any questions about either of these concepts, there are many here who may be willing to offer assistance. Provided you are genuine, that is.

Oh, and your concerns about swearing - it's totally cool here, unless it's used as a personal attack. If this offends you, you will feel uncomfortable here over the long haul.

We value your contributions if you truly have an open mind. But please keep in mind our policy, and work within it.

Wed, 2011-03-23 23:13

#27

Kanada2America

Speaking of laughter. Truguy I'm sure you're still reading this thread. For all this complaining and the burden you're carrying for your race - did they ask you or elect you to do that?

Anyways, on a lighter note. You know you sound like someone who thinks that his suffering is worse than that of others. Your self righteous opinions are right up there with the characters in the Four Yorkshiremen, a famous over the top Monty Python skit.

Go and look it up and see if you sound like one of those characters. I don't know if there was a reason the Pythons did it. But I figure subconsciously they wanted to illustrate the irony in self righteous opinions and revisionist history.

Kanada2America

Thu, 2011-03-24 11:51

#28

Snert

Quote:
If however, this same situation had occurred in a place like Tokyo or Bangkok with the founding gene pool being displaced as a result of large in-migrations of another racial group, would we then call it Ethnic Cleansing?

I should think Canada's "founding gene pool" would be FN. And the "large in-migrations of another racial group" would be us Europeans.

Mind you, I'm 1/16th FN, so I use "us Europeans" loosely. :)

Thu, 2011-03-24 12:43

#29

6079_Smith_W

Plus, it has happened a few times already, and not just to FNs.

When Canada first took over the west in the 1870s it was actually a case of anglo-Canadians moving in on a society in which there were more mixed-blood people (Anglo, Scots, and Metis) than any single heritage, european or native.

Of course, once the Canadians were running the show, they saw the invading horde of slavs and other "non-whites" (whom nowadays we consider completely white) as a cause for alarm and social decay.

And if you want to go back to those "founding nations" you'll find that England, to take an example, was a dog's breakfast of celts, romans, picts, angles, scandinavian, french and many others 800 years ago. And for that matter, you might want to look at a breakdown of peoples' heritage in the UK right now.

Or not, because I think it is a ridiculous, pointless and potentially dangerous thing to get worked up about.

While I think the idea of founding nations is sort of valid in a political and perhaps cultural sense, the idea of "founding gene pool" is ridiculous, and not based on anything rational at all.

Thu, 2011-03-24 12:45

#30

6079_Smith_W

And it might be appropriate to remember who built that damned railroad without which this country would not exist. I don't think there is a dead Englishman for every mile of track.

Thu, 2011-03-24 12:47

#31

Maysie

From the get-go Truguy used classic white supremacist talking points. I ain't gonna link to sources.

I strongly suggest that babblers refrain from using his ignorant hateful spewing as a basis for any conversation.

Thu, 2011-03-24 12:55

#32

6079_Smith_W

@ Maysie

Yeah, you're right.

Grrrr

Thu, 2011-03-24 23:00

#33

Catchfire

Racialicious on recent Alexandra Wallace video and related fallout: Go After the Privilege, Not the Tits

Quote:

I do believe is Wallace could have been criticized in terms of one of the most taboo—yet most needed—conversations: white female privilege.

Of course, when this phrase is put into the public square of ideas, quite a few white women, both feminist and non, will storm in with their vociferous exceptionalizing to this privilege—more specifically, how their individual selves are the exceptions to this because of mitigating identities and circumstances: they aren’t able-bodied; they don’t fit the blonde-and-blue phenotype; they aren’t slender and/or or buxom; they are poor or come from poverty; they are not educated and/or hipsters; they are in interracial relationships; so on and so forth. Usually, the exceptionalizing derails the conversation into silence. But for a person without that privilege, especially if the privilege is based on that person’s degradation or erasure, the mitigated advantage is still an advantage. The mitigation(s) shape(s) the privilege as that of gradation, not kind.

But, as Audre Lorde said, silence doesn’t protect … in this case, the privilege getting read.

So, if I had to unpack the White Female Privilege, it would look something like this (and I’m citing and paraphrasing heavily from Alienation, Peggy McIntosh, Mary Dee Wenniger, Nsenga Burton, and ballgame, and this list isn’t exhaustive):

Sun, 2011-03-27 07:21

#34

Slumberjack

If this thread isn't an example hereabouts of a siesmic shift of late, I don't know what is.