Why would they be?
They're mainly progressive francophone Quebeckers. So probably at least 2/3 of them are sovereignists. Sovereignism and progressivism very often go hand-in-hand in Québec.
For exemple, we have two right-wing Federalist parties (ADQ and PLQ) and two left-wing, Sovereignist parties (QS and PQ).
perfect if you're an elected Tory or NDP politician - awful for us poor people. The Tories will turn the screws on us and the NDP will seek to leverage the people's pain into electoral victory next time round. Classic parliamentary version of the bad cop good cop tag team punch up. You will see - they're all cats now Mouseland.
Last i checked they didn't hit 4%
Have alternate (PR) results been calculated by anyone yet?
I've always told my brother: the NDP's popularity in Québec will bring out the consevatives in the ROC, and give Harper his majority. I told him nearly 200 seats, it's not that bad, but it's close enough.
Today, Canada has rejected Québec.
Quite right. I'm ashamed but I voted NDP so I'm not complicit. Lots of us in the ROC hear you.
The Harper Majority will give fuel to the sovreignist movement even more. Those who vote no as for there usual will vote Yes if it protect the form the ultra right wing which at least 75% to 80% of Quebecois don't want.
Also Quebecois are becoming lucid about the reputation of the Tory for being the economic Hero. They see the Humongous deficit and they see the Tory just as corroborative pawn.
So the reason to vote yes are pilling up!
Fucking right Jack, don't back down!
Why would they be?
They're mainly progressive francophone Quebeckers. So probably at least 2/3 of them are sovereignists. Sovereignism and progressivism very often go hand-in-hand in Québec.
For exemple, we have two right-wing Federalist parties (ADQ and PLQ) and two left-wing, Sovereignist parties (QS and PQ).
I don't think the PQ has been anywhere near the left since Levesque died....I think the PQ are centrists with gusts to the right (depending on who is leading the party)
The only positive I can take from this election is that if Quebeckers have risen up to make a statement to show that we have spoken loudly in rejecting Harper,neo-liberalism/neo-conservatism...Then MAYBE this can translate into a QS surge in the next provincial election.
I don't see Harper's social conservatism being embraced in Quebec any time soon.
I think the policies are going to revolt Quebec.
Yea, it's unpopular to post but I'm sickened by the fact voters didn't catch on. C'est la vie, I'm humbled but emboldened. Don't count us out.
Newmarket-Aurora is going Orange next election. Yeah, I'm pulling a NorthReport. Stick together folks!!!
Here's my take of why the Conservatives now have a majority:
A tendency in politics is that a population will tend to divide itself more or less equally into right-wing and left-wing, or at least around two poles of parties. In the 90s, the Liberals benefited from the division of the right-wing vote and they campaigned on the left in elections, to get the vast majority of left-leaning voters (including left-leaning centrists). When the right-wing parties united and the NDP emerged from its slumber, the Liberals made a mistake in continuing to campaign as if it was the left-wing alternative, because now the left-wing vote was divided and the Conservatives kept eroding the right-leaning Liberal base. I don't care that Liberals didn't rule really as a left-wing party, it promised left-wing policies and talked like one, that's what mattered.
In 2004, the center-right voters of the defunct PC Party rallied the Liberals. In 2006, Harper started to get them to rally the party. In 2008, he further continued to do so. In 2011, he finally succeeded. The Liberals kept campaigning as if they wanted to steal votes from the NDP by saying it was the progressive alternative, and they didn't retain the old PC supporters, and their continued weakness led to them bleeding support left (NDP) and right (Conservative).
To beat back the right-wing, the Liberals have to move to the center-right. Go get the old Progressive Conservative supporters back. Dion and Ignatieff prefered to try to seduce NDP voters and it failed.
What they should have done is attack the Conservatives for betraying all three of Canada's base principles of "peace, order and good government" (traditional appeal).
On peace, they have rejected the old role of Canada as a multilateralist force for peace.
On order, they have broken laws and dilapidated a surplus without reason.
On good government, they are betraying the spirit of the Constitution and the Canadian democracy.
Oh well, too late for it now... and I now hate Ignatieff for killing the coalition in 2008, which could have spared us 6-7 years of Conservative governmnent.
A few heartbreakers, Halifax West being called for the NDP then taken away. Winnipeg North lost by a thread. Nettie Weibe denied again again by a tiny thread. Losing two incumbent seats sucks with this tailwind otherwise, and getting the crap kicked out of us in the Praries seat-wise blows, but seat for seat some very exciting results. A shame the Ontario electorate took the turn it did, could have been such a terrific night otherwise :)...
Okay--in Manitoba, Maloway looks like the second losing incumbent, and Neville lost--but Lamoureux won!
And in Vancouver Centre, not only looks like nobody's hitting 30%, but Carr's in fourth.
And another Sask shutout, and Jim Pankiw, the Charlie Sheen of far-right politics, has less than 2% in Sask-Humb...
Most bizarre and motley: the Bloc survivors--Dean of the House Plamondon; Fortin in Haute-Gaspesie (probably saved by the Nancy Charest factor splitting the opposition); throne-stealer Andre Bellavance in Richmond-Arthabaska (helped by NDP phantom-candidateness, I suppose)--and possibly, through a three-way-split perfect storm, Maria Mourani in Ahuntsic!
Cons said they're scrapping the subsidy if they won re-election. The NDP needs to take a page out of their more sucessful provincial sections books' and up the fundraising themselves, cause they can't rely on that money. They should also do that because I'm sure the Cons will try to continue the 'Americanization' of Canadian politics by running attack ads in mid-election period. A Conservative majority means the rest of us need to step up our game as individuals and if we can afford it donate, not necessarilly to the NDP if you don't want to, but to progressive organizations that oppose the Cons and have and will have their funding cut.
Using this is a good illustration of the paradoxes and opportunity in which we find ourselves.
This is one of the nastiest things the Conservatives can do. And one of the few things they could only do with a majority.
But I'll bet anything it will not be like people think. For one thing, Harper was making noises about reducing the subsidy in stages. [And there is a good public policy case for reducung, if done in stages.]
For another, this is just the kind of terrain where they will get blowback. They can win votes and force chhange, but contribute to undermining their position. The NDP is in a position to do well politicaly and organizationaly on this, which ever way it ultimately goes.
Quite right. I'm ashamed but I voted NDP so I'm not complicit. Lots of us in the ROC hear you.I've always told my brother: the NDP's popularity in Québec will bring out the consevatives in the ROC, and give Harper his majority. I told him nearly 200 seats, it's not that bad, but it's close enough.
Today, Canada has rejected Québec.
it is not just Quebec, the majority rejected Harper in most of the rest of Canada, it made no difference because of fptp. Millions of Canadians are left without true rep. Sixty percent of Ontario said fuck you to Harper. It was the system that elected Harper. Sixty percent of use got screwed over by 40 percent. Those of us that rejected him do not deserve to be villified for the crimes of the minority.
Hey, by the way, where's Reporter from the North? Busy celebrating a Con majority? Mission accomplished and all that.
I'm embarrassed to be from Ontario, I tried, got a few NDP votes out.
Hopefully we got to rebate status here.
The last results I saw for Montreal is that the Cons streak of not winning a seat in Montreal lives on.
Remember when Canadians were united in their almost arrogant feeling of superiority over our American neighbours for electing Bush twice?
Well,Canada has elected George Bush 3 times now.
So,the key to a majority government in Canada is...
I think it is simpler: Just hold on and hope that your main opponent (Liberal party in this case) elects one clueless after another as their leader.
The LIberal party handed this majority to Conservatives. Not Ontario, not NDP, not attack ads.
I like this analysis.
The last results I saw for Montreal is that the Cons streak of not winning a seat in Montreal lives on.
Remember when Canadians were united in their almost arrogant feeling of superiority over our American neighbours for electing Bush twice?
Well,Canada has elected George Bush 3 times now.
So,the key to a majority government in Canada is...
I think it is simpler: The key is just hold on and hope that your main opponent (Liberal party in this case) elects one clueless after another as their leader, and see them fight each other instead of unite against you. This formula worked for Cretien, and now has worked for Harper.
The Liberal party handed this majority to Conservatives. Not Ontario, not NDP, not attack ads.
who was the 2nd incumbant who lost?
Nice to see that the (principle successor to) David Lewis's old seat went NDP.
We've been shown one horror story after another tonight. A conservative majority for starters, followed up by an event previously thought to be biologically and spirtually impossible outside the realm of make believe; a ghastly spectacle in fact, where centrist politics reincarnated itself as the NDP before it even went cold on the slab. I'm afraid the villagers will be running for their lives for quite some time.
Saskatchewan...
Con 56.3 - 13 seats
NDP 32.3 - 0 seats
Lib 8.6 - 1 seat
Would be hard to draw a more effective intentional gerrymander than that. On the bright side, how can those boundaries survive the next re-doodling, given that they are demonstrably undemocratic?
FFS. It's going to be hard to sleep.
Presumably the poor Manitoba results had something to do with the unpopular provincial NDP government? Not the first time that's happened despite a good result elsewhere, of course.
Fuck off, by his side every moment. Fuck this MAN!
It looks as if Jinny Sims has taken Sukh down but I won't know for sure until tomorrow.
Earlier tonight I said to my husband that there were so many unknown possible mps among NDP ranks that it would probably be better for them to spend some time as official opposition than to win outright at this time. I never would have believed that the Liberal core support would run the way they did and give support to Harper.
It makes me feel kind of strong for all the years I have supported the NDP without a hope of forming government when I watch the fairweather deserters of the Liberal party show their true colours as double talking phonies. My Dad always said the "Conservatives are big money big business and they don't pretend to be anything else, NDP are the working person's party and they are the only party that will look out for the majority of citizens, but never trust a Liberal - they don't stand for anything - and will do anything to stay in power."Being a teenager I thought my Dad was just being dramatic and a little pompous. I wish he was still here so I could tell him he was right.
I've felt the frustration of the NDP voter. We have reason to believe. We are the conscience of government.
Thanks to our wonky electoral system the ReformaTories have won a majority with just under 40 percent of the vote. It's electoral fraud. Again!
It's like, why send the kids to school to learn ratio and proportion if this is what federal Government supports while pretending not to understand basic math?
We've always been the conscience party. And now the NDP is the official opposition in Ottawa for the first time in Canadian history!
Saskatchewan...
Would be hard to draw a more effective intentional gerrymander than that. On the bright side, how can those boundaries survive the next re-doodling, given that they are demonstrably undemocratic?
more input from dick proctor?
A lot of people invested their sweat and tears into this, many of them for the right reasons, and the best result that could be achieved has once again resulted in the majority of this country standing on the outside, while looking in on the conservatives feasting away in their glee. What more evidence is there to allow one to conclude that this ritualized exercise in futility will never provide solutions to the grievous problems confronting the people of this country. The reward for a massive and unprecedented level of effort across the country has been delivered in the form of a strengthened, relentless, and globalized neo-liberal agenda with its Canadian headquarters in the House of Commons.
It's great that so many Conservatives were defeated in Quebec tonight by the NDP wave, particularly people like Lawrence Cannon.
But what is disappointing of course is the overall result - a Conservative majority. Normally on a night when Conservatives and cabinet ministers are being defeated you would think that would mean a different outcome nationally.
who was the 2nd incumbant who lost?
Tony Martin
Looks like the races in Ahuntsic and Westmount-Ville Marie may still be undecided.
You guys are stupid PEOPLE DO NOT VOTE BASED ON REASON... you should all watch this, I could have predicted this.
There only 2 opposition candidates (both Liberals) to come within 10% in a Conservative riding in Ontario
Well it will certainly be interesting to see whether Harper and the Cons try to destroy Layton the way they did to Ignatieff. Layton has more credibility and so he won't be as easy a target, but it will still be rough. Look at the way the Cons have already started with the massage parlour story.
I like this analysis.The last results I saw for Montreal is that the Cons streak of not winning a seat in Montreal lives on.
Remember when Canadians were united in their almost arrogant feeling of superiority over our American neighbours for electing Bush twice?
Well,Canada has elected George Bush 3 times now.
So,the key to a majority government in Canada is...
I think it is simpler: Just hold on and hope that your main opponent (Liberal party in this case) elects one clueless after another as their leader.
The LIberal party handed this majority to Conservatives. Not Ontario, not NDP, not attack ads.
I am sorry I can't agree.
I think that truth has been replaced with fantasy in such a wholesale way it would not matter who the opposition leader is. That person likely will never survive. The attacks on Layton may not start right away -- only because it is a majority but no guarantees. A good two years before the next election the attacks will come-- the attack ads etc. The NDP will need to follow the rules of the Cons for raising money because the party financing will be recrafted to make sure there is no opposition possible. The PMO will be constructed so that the Official Opposition will be no more relevant than the Commons itself. This is an executive government -- it won't care what the House does.
As for the Opposition as a group the addition of May, will also complicate things further dividing the opposition. If May had been elected to a minority that could enact PR it would have been a different result but this result may only fragment further efforts to change the government.
The best the united right could do was 39.x percent of the vote. Now they now have plenty of rope to hang themselves with over four years. And we can be sure that's exactly what they will do. Harper is there because of a flunky electoral system, and he knows it. The NDP are going to show up and vote in the House and be breathing down their necks until the next election. If Harper hated showing up for work before, every day he makes the mistake of showing up will seem like Monday for him from now on.
I never would have believed that the Liberal core support would run the way they did and give support to Harper.
It is actually predictable, and was predicted, should the Liberal vote collapse. You probably were not around, but every time that the realities of strategic voting is discussed around here, it is pointed out there is lots of history of that.
Not surprising that people do not know that. But what basis is there for assuming- be it explicit or tacit- that most Liberals are opposed to Harper and the Cons? "Opposed" is what people around here tacitlly assume. Opposition is fundamentally different from [mere]preferences about parties.
Marc Garneau now leading by over 300 in Westmount
I don't know about elsewhere but what seems to have happened in Southwestern Ontario is that a significant part of the collapsing Liberal vote went Conservative. Perhaps even in a strategic vote to stop the NDP.
Thank you bekayne, wonder why?
Hypocrisy, your name is Liberal!
Enough bullshit. That parlour story came from the skuzy Liberals.
Well it will certainly be interesting to see whether Harper and the Cons try to destroy Layton the way they did to Ignatieff. Layton has more credibility and so he won't be as easy a target, but it will still be rough. Look at the way the Cons have already started with the massage parlour story.
Very unfortunate result tonight. Too much vote split in Ontario and metro centers the helped the cons win those seats needed for a majority. I recall Harpo's comment about not recognizing Canda when he was done with it and I don't think we or the rest of the world will recognize anything of the new republic of Canacorp. I hold some hope that there may be enough of Harpo's trained monkeys tire of his dictatorial rule over the party to jump ship and place him back in a minortiy position but it is a small hope that will take time to grow to fruition.
Big congrats to Jacko, just a shame he now has to go against a majority so his opposition will not really mean much.
Perhaps the Libs will now consider electoral reform now that they are the party being squized out.
My suggestion for all leftish, liberal or progressive parties is to unify behind a Pro Electoral Reform unification party. Then split into intellectually coherent smaller parties once we have a sensible system. I think either proportional representation or Condorcet systems will sufficiently kill vote splitting and allow Canadians to vote their true beliefs.
The 60% percent of Canadadians that can't stand Harper shouldn't have to put up with complete Tory dominance.
Marc Garneau declared elected in Westmount as final polls report in.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadavotes2011/myelection/ridings/107/
