Yay, NDP!!! Oh!! So sorry, Canada.

100 posts / 0 new

Tue, 2011-05-03 22:50

ReeferMadness

For the record:

Nowhere in the opening post does it say or even imply that I was "blaming the NDP for the Harper Majority" (Erik Redburn). In fact, I agree with Uncle John that it's more likely that "It was the prospect of an NDP government that caused the Blue Liberals to vote Tory." And Malcolm, I've never voted Liberal. But strategic voting (on the part of blue Liberals) probably created this problem. And smart strategic voting could almost certainly have prevented it.

It seems to be a particular trait of dippers to see the world exclusively through the lens of the party. When I mentioned the idea of vote swapping yesterday (strategic voting with a twist), the reaction was a mix of outrage and paranoia. Of course, my only possible motivation was to screw the NDP because you're capable only of seeing how things affect the NDP.

Harper is the worst thing to hit this country in my lifetime. In 1980, Reagan was elected. His administration redefined American politics. Thirty years on, that country is deeply polarized, has spawned a bizarre Ayn Rand political movement and is on the brink of bankruptcy. Progressive government is not coming to America anytime soon. Stephen Harper could well be our Ronald Reagan. He's a smart, ruthless tactician with resources nobody else can touch. And he's riding a wave of anti-government sentiment that he helped create.

And what's the reaction of the true, devoted worshippers of the Holy Order of the NDP? Woohoo!! It's all good, bro - we got us a HUNNERT SEATS! It presents the distinct impression that as long as things look good for the party, you don't give a flying shit about the country.

What's standing between Harper and another majority in 4 years? Bob Rae? Justin Trudeau? Jack Layton and his mob of Quebec newbies? Give me strength. Oh, and that assumes that Layton will be alive and healthy in 4 years.

So, you all can sit around and wait for the great Orange Crush to seep the nation next time. Like Linus waiting for the Great Pumpkin. Only the tiny core of you who sit around drinking the orange coolaid think there is anything more than a remote chance of that happening. So, as I ponder the sobering thought that the only thing that stands between Canada and perpetual neo-conservative dictatorship is a party dominated by people with delusions of grandeur, I think to myself:

God help us all.

Tue, 2011-05-03 22:51

#53

knownothing knownothing's picture

harper or whatever con they get to run is going down next election

Tue, 2011-05-03 22:54

#54

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

@reefermadnees:

Ok, I don't have any trouble believing you have always been a New Dem. I am sorry, I just don't get your point. I know you don't have explain anyting to me, but what is it that you are trying to so then?

Tue, 2011-05-03 23:00

#55

Life, the unive...

ReeferMadness wrote:

.

It seems to be a particular trait of dippers to see the world exclusively through the lens of the party. When I mentioned the idea of vote swapping yesterday (strategic voting with a twist), the reaction was a mix of outrage and paranoia. Of course, my only possible motivation was to screw the NDP because you're capable only of seeing how things affect the NDP.

Oh horseshit. The reaction was that your idea was just wrong-head and would produce the exact kind of result we saw yesterday. Strategic voting sites got things terribly wrong and in a large number of recomendations they were counter-productive and may have helped elect a Conservative majority. I said it was dangerous and the evidence seems to bear that out.

Oh and I am NOT an NDP member

Tue, 2011-05-03 23:03

#56

knownothing knownothing's picture

Great clip about the election on Democracy Now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GYsAY0alg0

Tue, 2011-05-03 23:04

#57

SRB

ReeferMadness wrote:

God help us all.

It's silly to think that New Democrats are just going to sit around and "drink orange coolaid." That's insulting. The victory, such as it is, is bittersweet, because no one in the NDP is happy about the Conservative majority. But the NDP is already planning for the next election and will be working hard to consolidate and build on its gains so that they can replace Harper as soon as possible, and so that this historic high is not just a flash in the pan. As part of this process, they will also be opposing Harper's agenda and hopefully raising public awareness, shifting the discourse as much as possible etc. (I was encouraged, for instance, by what Layton was saying to the press about building broader public opposition to things like Usage Based billing etc.)

Harper, his agenda, and his behaviour, have always horrified me. That's probably true of a lot of left-leaning people. It's just that people have different ideas of what to do to stop him. Now that the election is over, there's so much to do on a political and social level that strategic voting isn't top of mind for most New Dems.

Tue, 2011-05-03 23:08

#58

Sven

Lard Tunderin Jeezus wrote:

Sean in Ottawa - While I agree with much of what you have said, I don't think you've taken a close look at which Liberal MPs were re-elected. Many are from the rightwing of the party.

Does that mean that the remaining LIBs will tend to support the CON majority?

Tue, 2011-05-03 23:32

#59

ReeferMadness

knownothing wrote:

harper or whatever con they get to run is going down next election

Right. Because we're going to be celebrating the election of Prime Minister Ruth Ellen Brosseau. Thanks.

Tue, 2011-05-03 23:33

#60

ReeferMadness

Arthur Cramer wrote:

@reefermadnees:

Ok, I don't have any trouble believing you have always been a New Dem.

What?? Where did I say that?

Tue, 2011-05-03 23:37

#61

wage zombie

ReeferMadness wrote:

For the record:

Nowhere in the opening post does it say or even imply that I was "blaming the NDP for the Harper Majority" (Erik Redburn).

It's in the title. Is that part of "the opening post"? Not sure if the title would count or not.

Anyway, the title implies that the NDP has something to be sorry for.

Tue, 2011-05-03 23:43

#62

takeitslowly

ironically, i think Quebec should become a country, because the ROC is fucked. Ontario will never have the NDP surge because it doesnt have a "provincial identity" like Quebec, just a lot of fragemented communities separated by race, religions and etc. Quebeckers overwhemlingly voted for NDP because they shared something in common as a people, not the ROC. Fuck Canada, I say. The reason Dan Harris and some Ndpiers won in the GTA is purely based on the specific riding circumstance that cant be applied to the rest of the province.

Tue, 2011-05-03 23:51

#63

ReeferMadness

wage zombie wrote:

ReeferMadness wrote:

For the record:

Nowhere in the opening post does it say or even imply that I was "blaming the NDP for the Harper Majority" (Erik Redburn).

It's in the title. Is that part of "the opening post"? Not sure if the title would count or not.

Anyway, the title implies that the NDP has something to be sorry for.

No, it's not in the title. The title implies that NDPers seem to be so wrapped up in themselves that they barely notice that Canada is now ruled by a sociopath. You can decide for yourself if that's something to be sorry for or not.

Tue, 2011-05-03 23:56

#64

ReeferMadness

SRB wrote:

ReeferMadness wrote:

God help us all.

It's silly to think that New Democrats are just going to sit around and "drink orange coolaid." That's insulting. The victory, such as it is, is bittersweet, because no one in the NDP is happy about the Conservative majority. But the NDP is already planning for the next election and will be working hard to consolidate and build on its gains so that they can replace Harper as soon as possible, and so that this historic high is not just a flash in the pan. As part of this process, they will also be opposing Harper's agenda and hopefully raising public awareness, shifting the discourse as much as possible etc. (I was encouraged, for instance, by what Layton was saying to the press about building broader public opposition to things like Usage Based billing etc.)

Harper, his agenda, and his behaviour, have always horrified me. That's probably true of a lot of left-leaning people. It's just that people have different ideas of what to do to stop him. Now that the election is over, there's so much to do on a political and social level that strategic voting isn't top of mind for most New Dems.

Pretend you're not from the NDP and read your own post back to yourself. It's mostly about the NDP. bittersweet??? For the people that your party claims to be fighting for, there will be nothing "sweet" about this election.

And stop hogging all the coolaid.

Tue, 2011-05-03 23:58

#65

ReeferMadness

Life, the universe, everything wrote:

ReeferMadness wrote:

.

It seems to be a particular trait of dippers to see the world exclusively through the lens of the party. When I mentioned the idea of vote swapping yesterday (strategic voting with a twist), the reaction was a mix of outrage and paranoia. Of course, my only possible motivation was to screw the NDP because you're capable only of seeing how things affect the NDP.

Oh horseshit. The reaction was that your idea was just wrong-head and would produce the exact kind of result we saw yesterday. Strategic voting sites got things terribly wrong and in a large number of recomendations they were counter-productive and may have helped elect a Conservative majority. I said it was dangerous and the evidence seems to bear that out.

Oh and I am NOT an NDP member

That's funny because there seems to be an emerging consensus that it was strategic voting (by blue Liberals) that won it for the Conservatives. By people who were so afraid of an NDP government, they picked Harper.

Wed, 2011-05-04 00:00

#66

ReeferMadness

removing double post

Wed, 2011-05-04 00:06

#67

Sven

takeitslowly wrote:

ironically, i think Quebec should become a country, because the ROC is fucked. Ontario will never have the NDP surge because it doesnt have a "provincial identity" like Quebec, just a lot of fragemented communities separated by race, religions and etc. Quebeckers overwhemlingly voted for NDP because they shared something in common as a people, not the ROC. Fuck Canada, I say.

Really???

Wed, 2011-05-04 00:09

#68

takeitslowly

yeah I really do fucking believe that the NDP strategy worked so well in Quebec because they are sheltered or resistant to some of the anglo american propagenda bullshit media, my guess is that they have a stronger identity as quebeckers. In ontario and in the rest of the country, its different. I feel no sense of common goal or provnical identity or even a city identity in toronto, everyone is doing their own thing, and into their little niche and nobody is talking to nobody. its fucking depressing as hell, you cant build a positive pro government movement in this fucking shit hole called hell.

Wed, 2011-05-04 00:20

#69

Malcolm

edmundoconnor wrote:

If you weren't in Saskatchewan, Malcolm, I'd suggest we both go down to NOW's offices, and hurl Alice Klein into Lake Ontario.

I wouldn't want to sully my hands with that neo-con fifth columnist.

Wed, 2011-05-04 00:21

#70

takeitslowly

and i talked about this many time but of course no one has the answer to this problem..

the Harper regime has garnered so many "ethnic votes", and the local chinese media has given so much media support to the Conservatives...there are so many things that attract certain strand of ethnic voters, social conservatism, for once, "fiscal conservatism", and a play the (recent) immigrant fear about the role of a "big government" .. it all worked so brilliantly, and the NDP and the Liberals have NO RESPONSE TO THIS, except something about helping to reunite family members or getting a local"ethnic" candidate to represent their own "people" ..

its sad. really. and i cant do anything about it, i escaped from China and hong Kong for discrimination and the same shit is playing out here in this "ethnic ghettos"..Politically incorrectness be damned. I need to say this.

but i guess i cant blame anyone really if i cant even talk to my dipshit brother about what a fucking homophobic/transphobic asshole he is, if he doesnt even have compassion for me, why would i expect any other chinese people or newly arrived immigrants from countries beholden to dictatorship to appreciate sexual/gender diversity or the "democratic deficits". what a fucking joke.

Wed, 2011-05-04 00:26

#71

RickW

Fidel wrote:

Conservatives kept mentioning the economy, the economy, they have to get down to what they were born to do, which is apparently to fix the economy that's been fragile and weaker by every election since Brian Mulroney's time in the sun. Their Bay Street puppetmasters and them have tied Canada'e economic wagon of fortunes to those of an empire in decline. There will be some percentage of Tory voters who think Harper has something up his sleeve to fix the broken ideology. Wait til they realize he doesn't have a clue the same as all other conservative politicians around the western world. I think it's a general rule that new cars and conservative politicians do not appreciate in value over time.

It's been shown more than enough times that Harper is a lousy money manager (or perhaps he's a very good one, come to think of it) as far as the nation is concerned. Canada as left by Martin, had a very good chance of weathering the global farce called a recession without Harper plunging us into the largest deficit ever.

But, repeat a lie often enough, and people start to believe it. Thank you for that, Mr. Goebbels.

Wed, 2011-05-04 00:29

#72

SRB

ReeferMadness wrote:

Pretend you're not from the NDP and read your own post back to yourself. It's mostly about the NDP. bittersweet??? For the people that your party claims to be fighting for, there will be nothing "sweet" about this election.

And stop hogging all the coolaid.

Oh, excuse me, I thought this thread was about the NDP's reaction to the election results.

You're very rude. I'm sorry I responded to your post.

Wed, 2011-05-04 05:21

#73

bekayne

Malcolm wrote:

Pundit's Guide will be collating a list of constituencies where the "strategic" voting fraud artists recommended voting Liberal - and helped deliver the seats to the Conservatives.

No need to wait, here's the entire list:

http://www.punditsguide.ca/riding/?riding=1059

Wed, 2011-05-04 05:25

#74

bekayne

janfromthebruce wrote:

However, we know that won't happen and they will try to rejig it to again vote Liberal. I really do hope that they go up in flames and eat humble pie - Alice Klein are you listening? Because, and make no mistake, in my riding in Huron-Bruce, Grant Robertson NDP came a strong 2nd place showing and if the dim minds in "project democracy" (aka votefortheenvironment, aka liberal hacks) had actually done some real ground work, they would have known as pundit's guide showed, it was a Con/NDP race. Too bad, because Grant was heads & tails above the Conservative Lobb & no name Liberal who could not win a municipal election and inside Liberals did not support.

54.7>42.0, or am I missing something?

http://www.punditsguide.ca/riding/?riding=1087

Wed, 2011-05-04 09:12

#75

observer521

Harper is Reganomics. You bankrupt the country, so you can slash social spending. They bankrupt the country on purpose with military spending, then nothing is left.

Wed, 2011-05-04 09:28

#76

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

@observer521:

Seriously, and I am not being sarcastic. You have got to calm down and think with a clear head. Get out and start working now to prepare for the next election. Get involved in you riding association at the local level. Go talk to people, become an activist.

But you have got to get a grip! This is not good for you and you need to get some perspective on this. Take it from someone who knows. We are all friends here, and you have support, but you have got to start thinking a bit. Bad result a Harper majority? Sure! But running around saying "the sky is falling", doesn't make any sense either.

Buck up, chin up, move forward. Ok?

Hang in there friend!

Wed, 2011-05-04 10:18

#77

observer521

Is this a therapy class, or people sharing their viewpoint? The Globe and Mail, who shilled for Harper is also telling people to calm down, as Harper is now more centrist and moderate, even though he hasn't done anything yet.

The sky is not falling. The sky has fallen. Harper has absolute power, and those guys are going to use it, to stack the Supreme Court too. then what?

Harper is not Mulroney, and petty crooks out to steal 50 million for themselves. He's the worst kind of leader, a true believer idealouge.

Joining a riding association for a failed concept, that has no hope of winning, is a waste of time.

But if someone organized a strong center-left party, without vote splitting, that's different. That has a chance.

But just wait, Canada will get sucked into some more wars, then Canada's wealth will go into the security apparatus, etc.

Even today Harper talked about bring private industry into the health system, that is Step #1, of 1000 steps.

I just wish someone would come up with a way to block the Cons, but frankly it ain't gonna happen. Same old Libs vs NDP, now with a vote-split. That is a long term losing proposition.

Wed, 2011-05-04 10:25

#78

observer521

I like Jack, and I like the "new" NDP.

But I honestly do not believe they can form a majority in Canada. Average people want to pay less tax. They are terrified of taxes. And NDP has that bad rep.

Of course, educated people know the Cons tax just as much, through user fees, etc. And they tax through other spending.

But people just look at their paycheck, and want more of their meager pay. I do not believe the NDP can form a majority, unless people believe there is some financial restraint. Its a Catch 22, and Harper wins. I despise everthing Harper stands for, as he is not even conservative, Harper is going to bankrupt Canada, just like Bush. All it will take is getting involved in more wars.

Sun, 2021-11-28 14:37

#79

jfb

Wed, 2011-05-04 12:41

#80

Krago

The Tories won 166 ridings. In 56 of those ridings, the combined NDP/Liberal/BQ/Green vote was greater then the Conservatives. I figured out what share of support for the 3rd, 4th and 5th place opposition candidates would have been necessary to vote for the 2nd place candidate to defeat the Conservative. (i.e. If 46% of the Liberal, BQ and Green voters in Levis-Bellechasse had voted NDP, the Tories would have lost by one vote.)

Here are the numbers:

4 - Less than 5% - NDP 1, Lib 3
6 - Between 5% and 10% - NDP 1, Lib 5
6 - Between 10% and 15% - NDP 1, Lib 5
3 - Between 15% and 25% - NDP 1, Lib 2
14 - Between 25% and 50% - NDP 6, Lib 8
23 - Over 50% - NDP 11, Lib 12

In the 12 seats needed to deny Harper his majority, the NDP was the strategic choice twice (Bramalea--Gore--Malton, Lotbinière--Chutes-de-la-Chaudière) and the Liberals were the strategic choice in ten ridings (Nipissing--Timiskaming, Etobicoke Centre, Yukon, Mississauga East--Cooksville, Winnipeg South Centre, Don Valley West, Don Valley East, Willowdale, Labrador, Scarborough Centre).

Wed, 2011-05-04 14:39

#81

takeitslowly

i agree with observer 521..

this country elected a well known liar , a corrupt leader who will do anything and say anything to gain power..

what message does this send to the people ? that might is right, and the strong can always beat up the weak, this is completely hopeless. in 5 years, everything will be only worse and more people will have died or given up and or given in..there is no point.

the past 5 years have been tough enough already...how many decade do we have in our life? not many. I am sure those people with money, education and resources will fight on..but thats for antoher generation..generation Z maybe..

Wed, 2011-05-04 20:23

#82

adma

janfromthebruce wrote:

No but the what happens to people who don't vote because they think it's a forgone conclusion. I found there was an above average of people who did not vote in this riding. What it shows to me is that we need boots on the ground to know who our potential voters are and get them to the polls. We have 4 years to grow that base.

Remember: some of that potential base may have voted for Lobb out of "safety" rather than ideology: Libs stink, NDP eternally 3rd "can't win", better the devil you know, etc...

Wed, 2011-05-04 21:14

#83

ReeferMadness

observer521 wrote:

Is this a therapy class, or people sharing their viewpoint? The Globe and Mail, who shilled for Harper is also telling people to calm down, as Harper is now more centrist and moderate, even though he hasn't done anything yet.

The sky is not falling. The sky has fallen. Harper has absolute power, and those guys are going to use it, to stack the Supreme Court too. then what?

Harper is not Mulroney, and petty crooks out to steal 50 million for themselves. He's the worst kind of leader, a true believer idealouge.

Joining a riding association for a failed concept, that has no hope of winning, is a waste of time.

But if someone organized a strong center-left party, without vote splitting, that's different. That has a chance.

But just wait, Canada will get sucked into some more wars, then Canada's wealth will go into the security apparatus, etc.

Even today Harper talked about bring private industry into the health system, that is Step #1, of 1000 steps.

I just wish someone would come up with a way to block the Cons, but frankly it ain't gonna happen. Same old Libs vs NDP, now with a vote-split. That is a long term losing proposition.

You're absolutely right but you're wasting your time. Rabble isn't officially a mouthpiece of the NDP but it sure seems that way sometimes.

If you browse the forums, you'll find 10 "aren't we great" posts for everyone that seriously contemplates the damage Harper could do. And don't even get me started over the naive "we'll win the next election" crap. It seems that the true believers are simply unable to process the idea that anything that is so good for their party could actually be very bad for the people. And what's really unfortunate is that their collective inability to deal with reality could make it easier for Harper to win future majorities.

Wed, 2011-05-04 21:27

#84

Ken Burch

You keep acting like the NDP should apologize for gaining dozens of seats. Nobody here has said it isn't bad that Harper's got a majority, but it's been repeatedly proven to you that the NDP is NOT to blame for that.

Nothing the NDP did was going to save the Liberals, no matter what. Even strategic voting.

Wed, 2011-05-04 22:44

#85

ReeferMadness

Ken, I don't give a rat's ass about the Liberals but I think you're wrong about the strategic voting. According to Nicky, even the Green Party had enough votes to swing the result back to a minority. If people had engaged in vote trading on a large scale, there were easily enough Con seats in play to swing the result. But that's all beside the point anyway.

The main point is that you NDPers can't seem to get over yourselves. Look at the forum titles:

Layton-led NDP will become the official opposition
ndp losses and near wins
New NDP stars
The majority is not the NDP's fault
Mulcair appearance no Evan Solomon show..

Get over yourselves and pretend to care about the country or the people.

Wed, 2011-05-04 23:02

#86

Aristotleded24

ReeferMadness wrote:
Ken, I don't give a rat's ass about the Liberals but I think you're wrong about the strategic voting. According to Nicky, even the Green Party had enough votes to swing the result back to a minority. If people had engaged in vote trading on a large scale, there were easily enough Con seats in play to swing the result. But that's all beside the point anyway.

Strategic voting/vote trading doesn't work, and it especially doesn't work in elections when big changes happened. In Bramalea, the race previously was Liberal-Conservative, but this time around the NDP came second. So based on history, you would have had to vote strategically for the thrid-place Liberal to stop the Conservatives. How could anyone have known that the dynamic was going to change that drastically?

Wed, 2011-05-04 23:55

#87

takeitslowly

sorry I blame the harper majority on the liberal supporters, they are actually just right wingers who pretend to have compassion for gay, trans, or sex workers, but when it comes to show time, they will go CONSERVATIVE and vote for their wallet and everybody else be damned.

Thu, 2011-05-05 00:06

#88

ReeferMadness

Aristotleded24 wrote:

ReeferMadness wrote:
Ken, I don't give a rat's ass about the Liberals but I think you're wrong about the strategic voting. According to Nicky, even the Green Party had enough votes to swing the result back to a minority. If people had engaged in vote trading on a large scale, there were easily enough Con seats in play to swing the result. But that's all beside the point anyway.

Strategic voting/vote trading doesn't work, and it especially doesn't work in elections when big changes happened. In Bramalea, the race previously was Liberal-Conservative, but this time around the NDP came second. So based on history, you would have had to vote strategically for the thrid-place Liberal to stop the Conservatives. How could anyone have known that the dynamic was going to change that drastically?

No.

You don't need to pick one party or the other. There was a vote trading application on Facebook and people could have used that to vote strategically for NDP and the Liberals and the Greens. And if you look at the Democratic Space website, they were close enough (even with the NDP surge in Quebec) that it could have worked. But, as I've already said, this is beside the point.

Thu, 2011-05-05 00:25

#89

Policywonk

ReeferMadness wrote:

Ken, I don't give a rat's ass about the Liberals but I think you're wrong about the strategic voting. According to Nicky, even the Green Party had enough votes to swing the result back to a minority. If people had engaged in vote trading on a large scale, there were easily enough Con seats in play to swing the result. But that's all beside the point anyway.

The main point is that you NDPers can't seem to get over yourselves. Look at the forum titles:

Layton-led NDP will become the official opposition

ndp losses and near wins

New NDP stars

The majority is not the NDP's fault

Mulcair appearance no Evan Solomon show..

Get over yourselves and pretend to care about the country or the people.

You will note that the first thread started before the election campaign began. Also, despite the very lamented fact that the Conservatives did get a majority, the implications of which we are also discussing, being official opposition is historic.

Thu, 2011-05-05 00:35

#90

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

takeitslowly wrote:

i agree with observer 521..

this country elected a well known liar , a corrupt leader who will do anything and say anything to gain power..

what message does this send to the people ? that might is right, and the strong can always beat up the weak, this is completely hopeless. in 5 years, everything will be only worse and more people will have died or given up and or given in..there is no point.

the past 5 years have been tough enough already...how many decade do we have in our life? not many. I am sure those people with money, education and resources will fight on..but thats for antoher generation..generation Z maybe..

takeitslowly, I hear you. We can do better than this. We can form a movement, lots of Canadians are with us. We need to work hard for the next 4 years. The voters are there to be persuaded. I've been asked by sympathetic NDP'ers to state the case and am having a difficult time with that. I need help. I connect with alot of non-NDP voters asking me to explain how thingas will be better for them, as families. I think I've got an answer but I'd appreciate some advice on how to approach them?

Thu, 2011-05-05 00:37

#91

Policywonk

Yes, I wonder if he looked back at those seats he listed that he predicted the NDP wouldn't win. How many besides Scarborough-Rouge River (which we won), did we finish a reasonably close or better second in and the Liberals finish a poor third.

Thu, 2011-05-05 00:39

#92

Ken Burch

Reefer. as far as I can see, basically wants the NDP to be ashamed of itself for gaining seats and votes. He doesn't seem to get it that NDP supporters can acknowledge that it's a bad thing that Harper has his majority AND celebrate their party's progress AT THE SAME TIME!

OR that NDP supporters can celebrate their good showing and STILL be aware that a lot of work still needs to be done to beat the right.

All he cares about, from what I can see, is getting the NDP to recant for not backing strategic voting.

Thu, 2011-05-05 00:40

#93

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

Ken Burch wrote:

Reefer basically wants the NDP to be ashamed of itself for gaining seats and votes. He doesn't seem to get it that NDP supporters can acknowledge that it's a bad thing that Harper has his majority AND celebrate their party's progress AT THE SAME TIME!

OR that NDP supporters can celebrate their good showing and STILL be aware that a lot of work still needs to be done to beat the right.

All he cares about, from what I can see, is getting the NDP to recant for not backing strategic voting.

Heh, we're at a crossroads, no?

Fuck that! Get your shit together Canadians! Health care isn't going down without me in the streets. Join me if you care.

Thu, 2011-05-05 00:46

#94

Ken Burch

Well put. A culture of resistance needs to be built, and NOW! The next four years is a liberation struggle!

Thu, 2011-05-05 00:51

#95

Life, the unive...

Reefer Madness is like a child who throws a tempertantrum in the check out isle at a grocery store. No matter how many times you tell him a chocolate bar is not supper he still insists it is. So not matter how many times people say - this is historic, there are opportunities, but we still have a Harper majority so there is also responsibility to oppose him he will continue to pretend nothing was said. Like that child stuck on the candy, he will never, ever believe that his obsession wasn't a good idea. It isn't worth the time discussing with someone like that.

Thu, 2011-05-05 00:54

#96

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

I disagree with your approach LTUE but heed advice.

The people will go to the streets, fuck the G20.

Thu, 2011-05-05 00:59

#97

Life, the unive...

Well sorry, it may be a blunt assessment, but the constant attacks on babblers who view the NDP wins differently than he does, but also acknowledging the importance of building an alternative government and resisting the Harper majority are growing a little annoying. Add the sexist, classist crap about someone who brings an important perspective as a single mother working low end jobs to get by to the national discussion is really starting to also wear thin.

Thu, 2011-05-05 02:35

#98

Ken Burch

Well said. It's not like you can either build an opposition party OR a social movement, but not both. In fact, you HAVE to have both.

Only a two-pronged attack can bring down the forces of oppression.

Thu, 2011-05-05 07:23

#99

edmundoconnor

ReeferMadness wrote:

If people had engaged in vote trading on a large scale, there were easily enough Con seats in play to swing the result.

You appear to assume:

That people could vote-swap on a large scale. While technology has progressed to that point, not many people chose to do so. And I wonder how many people on those 'vote swapping' sites were swapping their votes with Tory trolls? The whole process is so open to abuse that I would never use it.
That people would be happy enough to switch their votes between Liberals and New Democrats, if it meant keeping out a Conservative. That suggests a certain equivalance between the parties. I can't see an equivalence between a party who had white supremacists (in Quebec) and homophobes (Alan Tonks) on the ballot, and a party which cannot vote 'aye' on a trans-rights bill fast enough. I don't know if many other people would, either.

If I bought a lottery ticket, I could have won the 6/49. Both are rather unlikely.

Thu, 2011-05-05 16:01

#100

takeitslowly

i wear a button that says fuck harper everywhere i go and whenever i can...i am going to create more protest just by writing on my t shirt, which i will walk around with. i am going to carry my rage and protest everywhere i go...i have nothing to lose now.

NOt that the true harper fans would care, they would just sneer and pretend to ignore me as they go on their merry ways to plan for their next vacation..but at least i am standing up for something..even though i am sure its all over.

Make no mistakes, its GEORGE W BUSH, Tea Party and Sarah Palin politics for the next 5 years. it will be absolute hell to anyone who us who actually pay attention to politics.

Yay, NDP!!! Oh!! So sorry, Canada.

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