I ran across this four hour doc on the Holocaust. http: //youtu.be/HEilNTuwnOI There seems to be some anti Semitism going on here. On the other hand, there have been problematic accounts of Holocaust history, as Norman Finklestein has pointed out. This video does seem to have an anti jewish flavour. I posted it as a youtube goodie but ended up taking it down. What do y'all think of it?
One Third Of The Holocaust
Thu, 2012-03-01 18:14
#1
One Third Of The Holocaust
Thu, 2012-03-01 20:35
#2
M. Spector
WTF? This is straight-up Holocaust denial. Do you really expect us to spend four hours watching it and then giving you a critique?
Fri, 2012-03-02 16:27
#3
Not all four hours, no. but I would like some arguements against it. Unfortunatly I can't take it down(please forgive me unionist) :(
Fri, 2012-03-02 16:28
#4
CMOT, I had a look when you posted it and saw what Spector saw. But you are an ally and a friend, and you deserve only love, not "forgiveness". I understand.
Fri, 2012-03-02 16:55
#5
Apparently it is banned on youtube, hence the different yet similar URL
David Icke is one of the producers.
(edit)
That's weird; I just read that it was banned on youtube, yet that odd link seems to go there.
Fri, 2012-03-02 17:56
#6
Who is david Icke?
Fri, 2012-03-02 18:29
#7
laine lowe
David Icke is a very frightening man, popular with white power, racist groups that are definitely rabidly anti Semitic. I think he preaches about the New World Order conspiracy and is a Hoolocaust-denier.
Fri, 2012-03-02 19:11
#8
Is he the 9/11 truther who did that painting featuring a screaming skinhead getting shot on board the Mavi?
Fri, 2012-03-02 20:02
#9
David Icke is a very frightening man, popular with white power, racist groups that are definitely rabidly anti Semitic. I think he preaches about the New World Order conspiracy and is a Hoolocaust-denier.
A New World order conspiracy run by "reptiles"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Icke#Reptilians_and_shape-shifting
Sat, 2012-03-03 13:56
#10
Unionist he still wants some arguments "against it". Presumably "it" refers to Holocaust denial. I am a little taken aback that anyone on Rabble would even want to engage a Holocaust denier.CMOT, I had a look when you posted it and saw what Spector saw. But you are an ally and a friend, and you deserve only love, not "forgiveness". I understand.
Sat, 2012-03-03 15:27
#11
Absolutely . Clearly there is no justice until we throw the offender in the stocks and get out the rotten tomatoes. My favourite way to spend a saturday afternoon.
What a thoroughly depressing and outraging part of the web those places are. The oddest part is those who go out of their way to claim they have nothing against Jewish people, and yet everything on the site is open racism.
The only mystery in my mind about those camps is why the Americans, British and Soviets did not bomb the crematoria and the rail lines . They knew Auschwitz was there, and they certainly bombed every other factory , and even took the time to incinerate a non-strategic cultural centre just to terrorize and satisfy blood lust.
Sat, 2012-03-03 16:56
#12
Yes. I've always wondered about that. It seems so clear that they could have bombed the railway lines out of the east and south into Poland and Germany, or the stretches of track leading into the labour camps & the extermination camps, instead of firebombing civilian areas of German cities.
Sat, 2012-03-03 16:58
#13
Catchfire
CMOT has some of the sharpest political instincts of any babbler on this board. I have personally learned a lot from him. And he manages to carry it without insulting or deriding his fellow babblers, which is a rare gift on this board indeed. We're very fortunate to have him here.
Sat, 2012-03-03 17:00
#14
Agree 100%. Having said that, wouldn't it be a good idea to close this thread?
Sat, 2012-03-03 20:00
#15
M. Spector
CMOT has some of the sharpest political instincts of any babbler on this board.
There seems to be some anti Semitism going on here.... This video does seem to have an anti jewish flavour.
Yup. Not much gets past good ol' CMOT!
Sat, 2012-03-03 21:37
#16
NDPPYes. I've always wondered about that. It seems so clear that they could have bombed the railway lines out of the east and south into Poland and Germany, or the stretches of track leading into the labour camps & the extermination camps, instead of firebombing civilian areas of German cities.
good question. The answer is another of the 'dirty secrets' of Zionism...
The Hidden History of Zionism: Betraying the Resistance - by Ralph Schoenmann
Sat, 2012-03-03 23:33
#17
David Icke is a very frightening man, popular with white power, racist groups that are definitely rabidly anti Semitic. I think he preaches about the New World Order conspiracy and is a Hoolocaust-denier.
And that's just where the weirdness begins!
Sat, 2012-03-03 23:36
#18
CMOT made a mistake. It happens. He opened a thread to discuss a neo-Nazi anti-semitic link.
Please close this thread before it gets any more toxic. We don't discuss shit like this on babble.
Thanks.
Sun, 2012-03-04 00:30
#19
RevolutionPlease
Thanks for your rational intervention Unionist.
Sun, 2012-03-04 01:09
#20
"Unionist he still wants some arguments "against it". Presumably "it" refers to Holocaust denial. I am a little taken aback that anyone on Rabble would even want to engage a Holocaust denier."
No. You don't understand I'm asking for someone to argue against the points made in the doc.
I'm not terribly familiar with a lot of the Holocaust lit.( I didn't even read the diary of Anne Frank in high school) I've never heard of the guy they mention(the survivor who killed that gaurd with an axe) and I'm not very scientifically minded(for all I know, what they say about deisel engines could be absolutely true.) Help me to see their lies. I don't really know enough about the Shoah to dismiss everything in the doc as bullshit. I know bits and peices, (for example, that anti semites love to play games with exact number of Jews who died in the camps) but it's not enough.
Sun, 2012-03-04 01:24
#21
Before this does get shut down I'd recommend watching Claude Lanzmann's documentary Shoah. It's a good start, and worth the 10 hour running time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoah_(film)
Beyond that, I don't see the value in you or me engaging those claims, because I don't think anything like that is going to change the minds of people inclined to believe them. I think it is more important to look at the full range of scholarly opinion about those claims, and the methodology of people making them.
And while I can't speak to Mr. Schoenman's motivation, I do know that Nazi-Zionist collaboration is an idea which has been used as fodder in some holocaust denial propaganda.
I understand you posted in good faith CMOT, but this isn't something I really want to spend my time poring over.
Sun, 2012-03-04 11:41
#22
Isn't there some evidence that Nazi Zionist collaboration did happen? Surely you can acknowledge that the 2nd genocide of 20th century did in fact happen while believing Zionist agents negotiated with Nazi officials in order to bring Jews to Palestine. This is briefly mentioned in Ilan Pappe's book "A History of Modern Palesine by Ilan Pappe, and I doubt that Pappe, whose parents died in the Holocaust, is in the habit of making the Nazis look good.
Sun, 2012-03-04 13:22
#23
Isn't there some evidence that Nazi Zionist collaboration did happen? Surely you can acknowledge that the 2nd genocide of 20th century did in fact happen while believing Zionist agents negotiated with Nazi officials in order to bring Jews to Palestine. This is briefly mentioned in Ilan Pappe's book "A History of Modern Palesine by Ilan Pappe, and I doubt that Pappe, whose parents died in the Holocaust, is in the habit of making the Nazis look good.
Enough already. Unionist you make a case for this Babbler yet he asks if Jews were potentially complicit in their own genocide. He/she seems to infer that some of the arguments made by Holocaust deniers could be true. Either close this thread or let CMOT know in no uncertain terms that his/her argument is intolerable.
Sun, 2012-03-04 13:30
#24
MCsquared, I don't usually engage with defenders of Israeli policy, but leave CMOT alone please. And look up Rudolph Kastner.
Anyway, I've asked the mods to close this thread before it became more toxic, but I guess that's not going to happen.
CMOT, a word of advice: Go do some googling and reading. There is not going to be a healthy discussion here any time soon. And by the way, if you should bring any question here about "did this aspect of the Holocaust really happen or not", I'm going to be the first to dump all over you. However, I'm sure you won't. Thanks.
Now let the namecalling continue!
Sun, 2012-03-04 13:35
#25
Catchfire
CMOT, I'm going to close this thread before it gets any nastier.
ETA. Unionist, can't a man have a lie-in on a Sunday morning without taking stick for not closing a thread in time to suit your schedule?