Write to Dalton to Stop Him From Destroying Ontario!!!!

Fri, 2012-04-06 11:46

#2

Gaian

Yeah. Destroy the party instead.

Fri, 2012-04-06 12:25

#3

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Gaian wrote:
Yeah. Destroy the party instead.

That's rich!

You're the one who wants to destroy the NDP by having everyone STFU about the Liberal-Tory austerity agenda! Why would anyone vote for such a craven party ever again?

Fri, 2012-04-06 13:14

#4

Howard

M. Spector wrote:

Gaian wrote:
Yeah. Destroy the party instead.

That's rich!

You're the one who wants to destroy the NDP by having everyone STFU about the Liberal-Tory austerity agenda! Why would anyone vote for such a craven party ever again?

Agreed. The NDP needs to take a stand for the things it believes in, even if it does end up compromising. We need a progressive fight. The budget needs changes.

Fri, 2012-04-06 15:07

#5

Gaian

Let's see. $3 million in the hole, a hostile electorate, concerned with their own welfare, and Andrea join the Cons - who seem to hve done some extensive polling about THEIR chances - even though we do NOT have any polling to show the likely outcome.And Mainstreet is being told by the MSM that Andrea is doing the sensible thing.

You fellas are soulmates of old roll-the-dice, Lyin' Brian at his most expansive.

Fri, 2012-04-06 15:42

#6

Catchfire

Hi Doctor Manderly, welcome to babble and thanks for this initiative. Just so you know, most babblers navigate the site by the Active Topics link at the top of each page, so you only need to post your thread in one forum for us all to see it. I've removed the others and left this one open, since it's mostly about Ontario.

Fri, 2012-04-06 17:59

#7

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Gaian wrote:
Let's see. $3 million in the hole, a hostile electorate, concerned with their own welfare, and Andrea join the Cons - who seem to hve done some extensive polling about THEIR chances - even though we do NOT have any polling to show the likely outcome.And Mainstreet is being told by the MSM that Andrea is doing the sensible thing. You fellas are soulmates of old roll-the-dice, Lyin' Brian at his most expansive.

This post characteristically oozes both contempt for the voting public and cynical opposition to the idea that they can ever be persuaded to vote in their own best interests.

This is the context in which the use of terms like the "great unread" is to be understood - sneering dismissal of any and every suggestion for action, however minor, directed towards social change.

Fri, 2012-04-06 18:02

#8

Freedom 55

Agreed, M. Spector, and it's getting beyond pathetic.

Fri, 2012-04-06 19:50

#9

Gaian

M. Spector wrote:

Gaian wrote:
Let's see. $3 million in the hole, a hostile electorate, concerned with their own welfare, and Andrea join the Cons - who seem to hve done some extensive polling about THEIR chances - even though we do NOT have any polling to show the likely outcome.And Mainstreet is being told by the MSM that Andrea is doing the sensible thing. You fellas are soulmates of old roll-the-dice, Lyin' Brian at his most expansive.

This post characteristically oozes both contempt for the voting public and cynical opposition to the idea that they can ever be persuaded to vote in their own best interests.

This is the context in which the use of terms like the "great unread" is to be understood - sneering dismissal of any and every suggestion for action, however minor, directed towards social change.

The Conservatives are now well known for employing the tactics of U.S.conservatives, which includes polling to find out what messages the electorate are interested in hearing/seeing. They do NOT depend on the wishful thinking of folks like yourself.

And your message about my contempt for the voting public is getting to be damned aggravating. It is your contempt for truth, the reality facing those seeking social change in a democracy, that makes it damned difficult to beat the bastards out on the hustings. I suggest you decide either for political democratic action or revolution, you can't have both, and are insulting in the extreme while trying to ride your hobby horse between the lines of action.

Fri, 2012-04-06 19:52

#10

Gaian

Freedom 55 wrote:

Agreed, M. Spector, and it's getting beyond pathetic.

As for pathetic...

Fri, 2012-04-06 20:45

#11

Freedom 55

?

Fri, 2012-04-06 20:49

#12

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Gaian wrote:

The Conservatives are now well known for employing the tactics of U.S.conservatives, which includes polling to find out what messages the electorate are interested in hearing/seeing.

So [b]that's[/b] where Andrea Horwath got the idea!

Fri, 2012-04-06 20:51

#13

Doctor Manderly

Anyone else have problems with Catchfire messing with thier content?

Fri, 2012-04-06 20:55

#14

Freedom 55

Gaian wrote:
Freedom 55 wrote:

Agreed, M. Spector, and it's getting beyond pathetic.

As for pathetic...

Fuck your pity. I want justice and solidarity.

Fri, 2012-04-06 21:07

#15

Doctor Manderly

Ontario has the highest uenmployment since the Great Depression....the budget wiould cause 20 per cent unemployment....if the NDP passes this budget and then unemployment spikes...they are toast,,,and for good reason

insist on a jobs budget, that is the answer... Jobs, Jobs ,Jobs has to be behind everthiing....A good job is the best social program..

If the Liberals won"t back JObs, this will hurt them...

Right now, all folks care about are jobs....if you let the budget through...Hudak will not win...he does not have polling saying they will win...the budget is Mike Harris slash and burn....

The Liberals clearly have the data that says if the NDP votes for this budget...they will kill their support...Hudank is not the threat,,,Dalton has a machine...Harper has a machine... Hudak has zip...

Fri, 2012-04-06 21:13

#16

Gaian

Mike Harris brought U.S. advisors - along with the niceties of pollig - to Ontario for the first time in '95.

Your suggestion that Hudak does not use polling is rather droll.

Now, if we could just convince MS just what constitutes a scientific poll of the electorate.

Fri, 2012-04-06 21:42

#17

Doctor Manderly

What I mean is that Hudak does not have favourable polls....the Liberals are far more of a threat...If the NDP forces the Liberals into a jobs budget that is the key..'

If the NDP votes for a budget that destroys Ontario ' s economy, they will wear that....Point out the 20 per cent unemployment that economists are all predicting will come from those cuts....and force a jobs budget...

Fri, 2012-04-06 21:43

#18

Doctor Manderly

G...did you read my post?

Fri, 2012-04-06 21:46

#19

6079_Smith_W

Doctor Manderly wrote:

Anyone else have problems with Catchfire messing with thier content?

Actually Doctor, your multiple thread posts are kind of annoying, perhaps even moreso for those of us who are not from Ontario.

Fri, 2012-04-06 21:47

#20

Doctor Manderly

It said...

."Hudak will not win...he does not have polling saying they will win...the budget is Mike Harris slash and burn....|

How do you get from that statement that the Cons don t use polling?

Fri, 2012-04-06 21:50

#21

Freedom 55

Doctor Manderly wrote:

G...did you read my post?

DM... did you read Catchfire's?

Catchfire wrote:

most babblers navigate the site by the [url=http://rabble.ca/babble/active-topics]Active Topics[/url] link at the top of each page, so you only need to post your thread in one forum for us all to see it.

Fri, 2012-04-06 22:00

#22

Doctor Manderly

Say..., since the topic here is writing to Andrea and Dalton go Save Ontario and tell all your friends is anyone actually doing that?

email Dalton:'

[email protected]

email Andrea:

[email protected]

Fri, 2012-04-06 22:09

#23

Doctor Manderly

The problem is the folks with the plan here are the Liberals...they have salted the budget with mean Mike Harris stuff that will alienate the NDP voter base...

This is compounded by the fact that economics are saying passing those cuts will mean 20 per cent unemployment...

So, if the NDP passes it, and it kills jobs, their supporters won t forget it in the next election... The flip side is if you insist on a jobs creation budget...that will change the conversation...

Fri, 2012-04-06 22:16

#24

Gaian

Assuming troll-like proportions. Conservative robo-troll-like proportions

Fri, 2012-04-06 23:46

#25

6079_Smith_W

What I am complaining about Doc is the half-dozen or so clones. Spam is spam, no matter what the ingredients are.

Fri, 2012-04-06 23:49

#26

Catchfire

Hi Doctor Manderly. I've removed your posts again. Please do not repost them. As I said above, it does not increase your project's "visibility" to have the same thing posted in several forums. Only once is required. I welcome you and your project here, but please respect the way we do things here.

Fri, 2012-04-06 23:56

#27

Unionist

I do, I do!

Sat, 2012-04-07 00:09

#28

Doug

Doctor Manderly wrote:

If the NDP votes for a budget that destroys Ontario ' s economy, they will wear that....Point out the 20 per cent unemployment that economists are all predicting will come from those cuts....and force a jobs budget...

Which economists? It's true that the budget as it stands does not do anything to improve employment in Ontario but neither is it a Spanish or Greek sort of budget that would make unemployment explode past 20%. Unlike with those spending continues to increase in nominal terms. It's a sucky budget but there's no sense in calling it what it isn't.

Sat, 2012-04-07 00:56

#29

Doctor Manderly

This is I believe medium term prediction....lf the proposed Federal and Provincial cuts are allowed....it is based on the hollowing out that happened during the Great Depression...

During that time the bad economy meant less people working to pay taxes...attempts to balance the budget led to job cuts, which then killed more jobs, causing less taxpayers...which then led to more cuts....then killed more jobs. ( Economic Downward Spiral)

Wages....similar to now were highly suppressed...

The Ontario cuts combined with the Harper cuts and current governement policies are the mirror of Depresssion era policies...

( Ontario Youth already have 24 per cent unemployment....National real unemployment.... 11.3 per cent)

Sat, 2012-04-07 04:08

#30

Doctor Manderly

To add:

If you believe the cuts are not so bad you are mistaken...

... Should the NDP support Mike Harris mean spirited cuts

that would destroy Ontario for a generation?

If that budget went through we would will hit 20 per cent unemployment.... And the NDP wiould wear it nexf election...

Why could the NDP not take a page from Jack's book Federally and force a Jobs buget?

Folks want action on jobs...it is the best social progam is a job...

The compounding factor is up to 100,000 Ontario jobs could be lost due to the Federal cuts, since each Federal job creates 3.2 local jobs...The Federal cuts are being carefully hidden....which means they are far deeper than is being let on...folks hate em...but feds createt other jobs...

Sat, 2012-04-07 08:25

#31

Fidel

I think McGuinty and Hudak actually want the NDP to force an election. They know that voter turnout would be even lower than the historic low turnout just six months ago. I think both those old line parties are looking for a snap election call for short-term political gain.

Snap elections are undemocratic. And I think Horwath and the NDP should take their time and start campaigning now for the next election call when they vote down the very next McGuilty budget. Horwath has time to make it a democratic election and not a snap election call that the two old line parties in Ontario are itching for. I predict that Ontario's New Democrats will take the democratic road as usual.

Sat, 2012-04-07 08:50

#32

Doctor Manderly

The problem is that this budget would destroy Ontario for a generation...If this is an election about saving Ontario...the turn out will be far far higher....

If they vote for this cuts budget, their base will hate them...they have salted the earth here....the budget attacks the NDP core constituency... What you mean is the NDP wants to try to chicken out....but these cuts are their chance to stand up for Ontario

Jack did this at the Federal level...he forced Martin and Harper to do awesome stuff...

Sat, 2012-04-07 11:18

#33

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Fidel wrote:

Snap elections are undemocratic.

What a pile of horseshit!

The one rare chance we actually get to vote on what the government should be doing, and you call it undemocratic!

I suppose it's much more democratic to ignore what the people of Ontario are saying and impose austerity on them without even giving them a chance to register their dissent. Is that the Neo-Diperal way of doing things?

Sat, 2012-04-07 16:32

#34

Fidel

M. Spector wrote:

Fidel wrote:

Snap elections are undemocratic.

What a pile of horseshit!

The one rare chance we actually get to vote on what the government should be doing, and you call it undemocratic!

I suppose it's much more democratic to ignore what the people of Ontario are saying and impose austerity on them without even giving them a chance to register their dissent. Is that the Neo-Diperal way of doing things?

Hey, big spender! What's your hurry? Everything in good time. And I think the feds will prolly rubberstamp the sale of RIM to absentee corporate landlords at some point. No problem for us, though, because Marx and Lenin advised workers to seize the factories and branch plants majority foreign-owned and controlled, hacked into pieces, stripped of assets and offshored and mostly by rich Americans. Isn't that right?

Ontario is scorched - bankrupt, like those 30 some-odd US states south of us. And the Hudakers would likely be even more the austere neoliberals if elected to dictatorial power by the phony-baloney majority machine. Is that what you want, to gamble on that crew slithering into power with limbo-low voter turnout? How would that help the poor in Ontario?

Voters have a right to be informed of the issues leading up to an election, and that takes an adequately funded election campaign over a reasonable amount of time. How would a snap election be associated with serving democracy in that regard?

Snap elections are for neoliberals seeking short-term political advantage by our dysfunctional electoral system. It has nothing to do with democracy.

Sat, 2012-04-07 18:11

#35

Doctor Manderly

I see what you mean....The bankruptcy issue is fake.....it is being used on us to try to force us into fire sale mode like Greece...

I do think if we get everyone we know to write Dalton and Andrea, and if they can their local MPP...this will make a huge diffference

Liberals usually back down with mass complaint...

e-mail Dalton now at:

[email protected]

e-mail Andrea now at :

[email protected]

Sat, 2012-04-07 18:23

#36

Fidel

We need to apply some pressure on Dalton, yes. And I don't see why he would not cede something significant to the NDP. Petersen's Liberals received a boost in popularity after collaborating with the NDP in the late 1980's.

Careful with that axe, Eugene McGuilty.

Tue, 2012-04-10 20:48

#37

Doctor Manderly

E--mail Dalton and Andrea to stop this proposed""Slash and Burn" Mike Harris budget....

The Liberal usually back down with mass complaints

If we all write to Dalton & Andrea .......we can save Ontario...pass it on ...

e-mail Dalton now at:

[email protected]

e-mail Andrea now at :

[email protected]

Tue, 2012-04-10 23:46

#38

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Well, nobody else has said it, so I guess it's up to me.

Doctor Manderly, your tenacious faith in the power of letter/email-writing campaigns to politicians is charmingly naïve. Politicians ignore such communications unless they agree with the politicians' own views. Everyone else who writes gets back, at best, a polite form letter filled with bafflegab and a thank-you.

History shows that such campaigns do not produce any tangible, measurable results.

Thu, 2012-04-12 06:22

#39

Doctor Manderly

...

Thu, 2012-04-12 06:25

#40

Doctor Manderly

That is the thing....the NDP is asking for what everyone wants.....So the Liberals would be way more popular going along with the no cuts agenda....I feel like with all this unemployment....the budget should be a massive job creation budget.....

rebuilding Ontario for the future... massive investments in education...job creation....public infrastucture....

Trudeau in the 70s was forced to implement NDP stuff....and he benefited massively from it popularity wise...