Happy Bastille Day, Everyone.

32 posts / 0 new

Sat, 2012-07-14 07:37

Tommy_Paine

Well, 214 years ago today, the Bastille, the symbol of French Aristocratic Tryanny, was stormed and taken by the poplace.

Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite.

It's a good time to think about the fact that it seemed so black and white back then. And, it seemed so black and white in our struggle against fascism in the 1930's and 1940's.

But there were arguments then, as there are arguments now. Black and white is what you make of it in hind sight.

Or foresight.

We are, today, embroiled in an existential fight against tyranny and totalitarianism, every bit as threatening as the Ancient Regimes of 18th Century Europe, or the fascists of 20th century Europe.

We have seen Ireland and Greece become occupied territories of International Banksterism. We have seen the compliance of governments, from our own, to our neighbour to the south, to the U.K. to this new system that puts financial sector totalitariancrats above the law. No banker, no matter the crime, goes to jail. They face no consequence. They are above the law.

They are tyrants.

It is that black and white. And our fight is as existential today as those who have sacrificed-- and won-- before us.

Freedom, Equality, Sister and Brotherhood to you all.

Sat, 2012-07-14 13:50

Catchfire

Hear, hear, Tommy!

It's also Woody Guthrie's 100 birthday today!

Sat, 2012-07-14 14:17

Unionist

... and in both cases, their memory, if not their reality, lives on!

Sat, 2012-07-14 15:37

infracaninophile $infracaninophile's picture$

La lutte continue!

Sat, 2012-07-14 16:51

Unionist

[url=http://www.openculture.com/2012/07/woody_guthrie_at_100_celebrate_his_am... Guthrie at 100: Celebrate His Amazing Life with a BBC Film[/url]

Sorry for the thread drift.

Back to the [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWd5Qc80Bh4]French Revolution[/url].

Sat, 2012-07-14 17:04

6079_Smith_W

When I think of Bastille Day two things spring to mind:

1) the fact that the last time I was in France for Bastille Day I saw a display of military hardware straight out of May Day in Red Square (strange that even the Americans, who have a militarism similar to the French, aren't quite so showy about it) .

2) and of course, the fact that the original Bastille Day was a complete fucking balls-up. There was no significant cache of arms to be used against the people, only seven prisoners in the whole joint, and even though the Governor stopped the battle and let the people in he still wound up with his guards slaughtered, and his head paraded around on a spike. A nice dress rehearsal for the September Massacres, and of course, the Terror, and the Vendee in which far more poor than wealthy were slaughtered, and which left France in ruins, and with a real despot - Napoleon - in charge.

So yes, vive la revolution, and as you say, it is important to remember that things are not quite so black and white as they seem.

Sat, 2012-07-14 17:08

autoworker autoworker's picture

Not unlike the Arab Spring

Sat, 2012-07-14 17:28

6079_Smith_W

I think it is important to remember as well that the situation in France at that time was far more like the modern world than we might think. About 1/3 of the so-called aristocrats didn't have inherited titles. They were business people who bought their way into status, just like Lord Black of Double Cross Harbour.

As well, the biggest problem with the tax system wasn't that it was controlled by the king, but rather that it wasn't. It was a privatized system, which local business people ran for profit.

So the revolution didn't actually overthrow an absolute monarchy so much as a proto-capitalist system. And the people weren't driven by hatred of the king so much as mistrust of his bureaucracy, and by misogyny and xenophobia directed at his foreign queen.

Sat, 2012-07-14 17:52

autoworker autoworker's picture

Beware of Jacobins!

Sat, 2012-07-14 22:16

#10

Unionist

6079_Smith_W wrote:

So yes, vive la revolution, and as you say, it is important to remember that things are not quite so black and white as they seem.

The Revolution emancipated the Jews of France, giving them full and equal rights as French citizens, decades before other European countries - including the ones with oh-so-very-nice and non-despotic rulers as Great Britain.

And Napoleon, that terrible despot, went and toppled crowned heads of Europe and also emancipated the Jews in every country he invaded.

So from my narrow standpoint, the French Revolution was an unqualified victory for the people over power, priests, and privilege. And it's no wonder that its slogans, which scared the shit out of every exploiter then and since, continue to resonate until this day.

6079_Smith_W wrote:
... the last time I was in France for Bastille Day I saw a display of military hardware straight out of May Day in Red Square (strange that even the Americans, who have a militarism similar to the French, aren't quite so showy about it) .

Right. The Americans are more fond of displaying their military hardware in other countries - whether by arms sales or invasion and slaughter. Their own population is so docile that they rarely need to do more than kill a few African-Americans or Aboriginal people or students on university campuses from time to time.

Yeah, that French Revolution, very very mixed bag. I wonder, if we had to do it over again, we couldn't just have lent the French crown some Euros, put them in hock, recommended amended fiscal policies, installed a new government of professional economists... Ah well.

Sun, 2012-07-15 01:05

#11

6079_Smith_W

I am sure there are a number of people who might have a different prespective on things, including people who had the misfortune of being in jail in Paris on September 2, 1792.... oh, and pretty much everyone who lived in the Vendee region

Considering that part of the reason Louis had to call the Estates General for more taxes was because he was himself bankrolling revolution against other monarchs, and that after Napoleon was gone there was another king on the throne, I'd say the irony is even thicker than the myth when it comes to that episode in history. And the Bastille was nothing if not a whopping myth.

I'm glad it turned out well for a few people; it certainly didn't for many, most of whom were neither wealthy nor powerful, but happened to come under suspicion of the madmen who wound up running that show. Even being more revolutionary than the revolutionaries could get your head cut off, as Jacques Hebert found out.

This is probably a more accurate image of those days than the storming of the Bastille:

Robespierre guillotines the guillotiner after having guillotined all of France

Sun, 2012-07-15 04:09

#12

DaveW

yes, other countries liberalized, emancipated the Jews and evolved to parliamentary democracy without the massacres and tyranny, plus the wars set the French economy back half a century

not an example to follow

Sun, 2012-07-15 05:37

#13

KenS

Revolution is always more than it is cracked up to be by its proponents.

You get it all.

Sun, 2012-07-15 06:07

#14

Fidel

Russia's Tsar, for example, had plenty of warning by 1905 that something was amiss. I think its their appalling greed and total lack of empathy for the people living under their oppressive rule that gets the better of them. They begin to think themselves invincible and that the people are so subdued by poverty and hopelessness that the idea of rebellion never occurs to them toward the end. It must have been quite a shock for European blue bloods to realize they had no real connection to Heaven, and that God would not save them.

Sun, 2012-07-15 09:43

#15

Tommy_Paine

Vive le Status Quo.

Sun, 2012-07-15 10:02

#16

KenS

Status Quo is always more than it is cracked up to be by its proponents.

You get it all.

Sun, 2012-07-15 13:29

#17

Unionist

DaveW wrote:

yes, other countries liberalized, emancipated the Jews and evolved to parliamentary democracy without the massacres and tyranny, plus the wars set the French economy back half a century

not an example to follow

Revolution is bad for the economy. Thanks for that. Any stock tips?

Sun, 2012-07-15 14:06

#18

6079_Smith_W

Unionist, all I am trying to say (and KenS is saying something similar, I believe) is that if we are going to look critically at the powers that be, we should at least be prepared to take just as critical a look at the forces that change them.

And the popular conception of the French Revolution is the classic example of myth trumping reality. Lots of people remember what they think happened on July 14, 1789. Not nearly as many people are aware of what happened at the first National Festival, one year later.

And plenty of people have seen "The Tennis Court Oath" by Jacques Louis David, but not so many think about the event that it depicted. It's much easier to digest some comic book story about overthrowing tyrants and aristocrats and strangling priests with their own guts.

That revolution may have been an important step, but there was a lot about it which was horribly wrong, and which contributed to its utter failure.

Sun, 2012-07-15 14:33

#19

voice of the damned

And, in fact, Robespierre ended up strangling atheists in their own guts. Specifically for the crime of being atheists.

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_Reason#Legacy]The fate of the Cult Of Reason[/url]

Which kind of problematizes the idea that the French Revolution was all about emancipating people from religious superstition, since at least during that phase, belief in God was enforced under penalty of death.

Sun, 2012-07-15 16:01

#20

autoworker autoworker's picture

Nothing conceived inside the Marquis de Sade's head could equal the miscarriage happening just beyond his cell.

Sun, 2012-07-15 16:21

#21

Unionist

And if you think the French Revolution was bad, never forget the 364,511 dead and 281,881 wounded in the U.S. Civil War. Think of all the countries that ended slavery just by liberal democratic parliamentary means. And I'm told many of the Unionist forces didn't even have anti-slavery in mind when they were fighting! It was all wrong. It should be redone.

Sun, 2012-07-15 17:10

#22

autoworker autoworker's picture

Is it coincidental that the French Revolution, tragically flawed, occurred in tandem with the genesis of the Romantic Era, and personified through Byron's Napoleonic hero: "Don Juan"?

Sun, 2012-07-15 17:42

#23

Fidel

Unionist wrote:
And I'm told many of the Unionist forces didn't even have anti-slavery in mind when they were fighting! It was all wrong. It should be redone.

No need. Former free Southern farmers were swiftly tranformed into debtcroppers. More efficient and cost effective than physical ownership of slaves which was expensive and risky by comparison. Today they are mostly displaced from the land by big agribusinesses subsidized to the tune of big money by the one-two party dictatorship in Warshington. Since the dustbowl and Asian famines of the 1930s, no one trusts national food production to laissez-faire market forces. Micahel Lind says political conservativism was born in the Southern states around that time. American conservatism was based on religious revivalism. And racism! It still is.

Sun, 2012-07-15 17:59

#24

Unionist

Let's face it. All those struggles were colossal flops. But we can't blame those ignorant folk. What did they know of leadership races and throne speeches and other instruments of modern democracy? They did the best they could. Then there was that tragic Russian Revolution. O woe.

Sun, 2012-07-15 18:11

#25

contrarianna

autoworker wrote:

Is it coincidental that the French Revolution, tragically flawed, occurred in tandem with the genesis of the Romantic Era, and personified through Byron's Napoleonic hero: "Don Juan"?

Certainly there was major influence, though little too convoluted to go into here.

Avoid, except for amusement, the wikipedia piece on the "French Revolution and Romanticism".
A somewhat better introduction is the Wiki piece on "Romanticism" where it intersects with the FR. It makes clear that Romanticism is not a monolithic movement. some Romantic supporters of the FR became disillusioned, particularly as Napoleon took power.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanticism

Athough a modernist poet (some would say late Romantic) the conservative WB Yeats had this little ditty re: revolution:

The Great Day [aka, Caution, Men at Work]

Hurrah for revolution and more cannon-shot!
A beggar upon horseback lashes a beggar on foot.
Hurrah for revolution and cannon come again!
The beggars have changed places, but the lash goes on.

Sun, 2012-07-15 18:15

#26

Fidel

True. Michael Hudson has a good piece entitled How fnancial oligarchy replaces democracy. Apparently whenever it dawns on today's financial oligarchy that debts which can not be paid, won't be, they will agree to democracy but only for purposes of eventually re-enslaving us all under debt peonage, like they worked to eventually get rid of banking regulations in-place since the first collapse of laissez-faire capitalism in the western world beginning in the dirty 30's. The post-Soviet countries, African nations and Latin America are all watching what unfolds in Europe and America today. Hudson says that in the end democratic nations refuse to relinquish federal powers of resource allocation to emerging financial oligarchies. And the bankers will want some guarantees that debts will be repaid. Right now they have none but are hoping that European governments will be strong enough to impose austerity and the will of financial oligarchs on hundreds of millions of their citizens. But they can't afford long-term military occupations anymore. It's a game of bluffs today, and I think people around the world are waking up to that fact.

Sun, 2012-07-15 18:58

#27

Slumberjack

Unionist wrote:
So from my narrow standpoint, the French Revolution was an unqualified victory for the people over power, priests, and privilege. And it's no wonder that its slogans, which scared the shit out of every exploiter then and since, continue to resonate until this day.

More than enough reason to maintain a critical analysis of the events. I'm almost certain the Paris Commune would have several footnotes to add to this interpretation.

Sun, 2012-07-15 19:20

#28

6079_Smith_W

Unionist wrote:

Let's face it. All those struggles were colossal flops. But we can't blame those ignorant folk. What did they know of leadership races and throne speeches and other instruments of modern democracy?

For one thing, they'd have done better with a bit less self-assuredness and ideology, and a bit more actual experience of the suffering the revolution was supposed to relieve. And not that age counts for everything, but most of the key figures were in their 20s and 30s.

The Jacobins were all quite well-to-do, and I don't think any of the lawyers, scribblers, merchants, bureaucrats, rich kids and psychopaths who orchestrated the terror ever went without a meal in their lives.

For another thing, if the revolutionary war had not been launched, things may have turned out differently. As it was, the war only added more fear of traitors and counter revolution.

A side note - one of the members of the Committee for Public Safety - Jean-Jacques Bréard - was born in Quebec, to a family of naval inspectors.

Sun, 2012-07-15 19:21

#29

Slumberjack

Tommy_Paine wrote:
Vive le Status Quo.

If you have one reign of terror - that of privilege and hereditary rule for example, being suppressed by the rise of another form of terror, this is ultimately what people say 'long live' to. Hegel once said there were plebs in all classes, taken to mean that in all layers of a society, one might find people of conscience that would, under certain circumstances, conspire together to orchestrate and to bring about another political context from that which presently exists. But when we look at the historical record to examine what certain plebeians of certain classes were able to accomplish on behalf of everyone when they attained power, having the requisite knowledge, skill, and awareness of the inner workings of a given state to assume control over its basic functions, then we would have in front of us a plethora of suspect evidence where it concerns the effectiveness of revolution to bring about meaningful systemic change, with subject material spanning several continents available for examination. Which isn't to say that nothing should be attempted, but that the question of 'what' should be posed and resolved beforehand.

Sun, 2012-07-15 19:56

#30

autoworker autoworker's picture

Sturm und Drang and The French Revolution: the Germans were irritable, while the French were irascible, and both were influenced by Rousseau.

Sun, 2012-07-15 21:43

#31

Fidel

DaveW wrote:

yes, other countries liberalized, emancipated the Jews and evolved to parliamentary democracy without the massacres and tyranny, plus the wars set the French economy back half a century

not an example to follow

We still have wars today. Historically it was war at the root cause of national indebtedness. Today it's general all around financial oligarchy causing corrupt governments to run countries like banana republics.

There is one western world nation advocating peaceful protestations in various countries today but not their own. And it's odd because American colonists did have a regular troop force of sorts. And there were terrorists. Sons of Liberty regularly attacked anyone aiding and abetting the British. America was created by violent times and conditions. And it is heavily rumored that Warshington is encouraging terrorists to destabilize other countries even today.

The French didn't rid themselves of monarchy until 100 years after the revolution. This was relatively quick considering how many centuries monarchs ruled Europe leading up to the time of the slice. The world revolutions are not done yet. All things in good time. Rich Romans didn't destroy an empire overnight. No nation or empire can survive corruption from within.

Mon, 2012-07-16 03:18

#32

DaveW

no question that the French Revolution made great historic advances, esp. the (temporary) abolition of privileges, the Declaration of the Rights of Man and the Citizen,

but at the price of a great civil regression, starting with the Terror devouring its own; first, Danton and Condorcet -- as if the American revolutionaries had gone mad and hanged Tom Paine and Ben Franklin -- then of course Robespierre himself

but unlike the American Rev, it also led to the quick return of a quasi-monarchy, the Emperor , a decade later, then insane and extraordinarily wasteful military incursions, notably into Russia, killing French peasant-soldiers by the hundreds of thousands. To what end?

and yes, the miltary campaigns and political infighting set back the nation's economic development by decades, during which Britain clearly lapped France, impoverishing a country which throughout the 18th century had shown numerous technical and demographic advantages

but the tone for the modern political world was set, as the categories Left and Right emerged in the 1790s, with Condorcet and Godwin on the one hand, and Edmund Burke on the other, who set the terms for many political debates we still have today...

maybe another thread for the tricentenary of J-J Rousseau is needed.