http://www.nationalpost.com/m/search/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/2...
Its metioned near the end of the article. Honestly I think the first nations will get more out the meeting with Mulcair then Harper.
The only way I see Harper giving into the first nations call for a slice of the resource pie is if they surrender on enviromental standards in exchange. And Sadly I think many AFNs are poor and desperate enough to agree to that sort of deal.
I think this Nazional Post piece fundamentally misunderstands the driving impetus behind the INM movement and its relationship to the band council Chief''s organization. Selling out the environment is not on their agenda and the Assembly Chief's are running fast trying to catch up to the parade but they are certainly not leading it and will not be able to co-opt it even if they tried.
Paul Dewar actually said something I agree with the other day. He said, essentially, the meeting with Mulcair is unimportant. This is not about lobbying for political change. It is about a relationship between nations which needs to be resepcted and transparently negotiated.
Well Catchfire, I think you make a good point. But notwithstanding, it is a good first step if something meaningful is the outcome. Over at the Huff Post, you can see a picture of Trudeau on their Canada front page, but not a mention about Mulcair's upcoming meeting. Oh I forgot, the Libs are "Canada's Natural Governing Party". That's the only thing that matters, right?
The meeting was last night.
Did a meeting like that happen?
There was no mention whatsoever that such a meeting was to take place by the media here in N.S.
The M.S.M. out here in Nova Scotia is so blatantly anti-NDP, it's a wonder we learn anything, unless you have internet access.
There was no meeting with Mulcair Thursday night - it was cancelled because the AFN had to deal with a crisis back at the Delta Hotel where they were staying - the crisis had to do with whether they should meet with Harper or not - many of the chiefs were taking their cue from Chief Theresa Spence who said "no GG - then no meeeting". The CBC's Julie Van Dusen was camped outside Stornoway until late that evening giving updates every thirty minutes. We learned through another CBC correspondent that the Chiefs never went to Stornoway because of the crisis within AFN ranks.
The NDP's silence and lack of leadership regarding taking a position on Idle No More (like, say, openly and publicly supporting it) has not gone unnoticed.
Check out this mealy-mouthed pathetic statement (Released yesterday! Such visionaries!) which does not once mention the name Idle No More.
The NDP's silence and lack of leadership...
Personally I don't believe the NDP has any business leading anything in relation to INM, but they could have at least accompanied it in some supportive way, in contrast to the shameful profile they've adopted, so as not to upset the demographic that likes to spread racist disinformation and commentary on the mainstream media's message boards across the country.
Check out this political party's website and the three lead stories for a better picture of what support means.
Well, I guess I imagined, in my more optimistic moments, what with being the Official Opposition and all, that they would say some damn thing, hold a press conference, something! I found that brief article by the critic of Aboriginal affairs on a tweet link on their page. Like, really?
Sorry, U, I can't read French!
I mean, even the Liberals got it together. Rae said some stuff, JT visited Chief Spence before Xmas. Even Joe Clark for fuck's sake.
Sometimes support is simply the right thing to do. Failing that confirms much of what I already believe about the federal NDP, and Mulcair.
To be fair, Paul Dewar and Charlie Angus have ben meeting with Chief Spence I think daily since she arrived on Victoria Island, and possible other NDP MPs have been there too - CBC reported Thursday that 20 MPs have been visiting her so far. But it does look odd with Mulcair - if he supports Sppence meeting with the PM, he ought to have set the example himself.
I seen many natives (include me) on FB around says we wish Mulcair SHOULD pick MP who IS Aboriginal (Indigenous) like Romeo Saganash or Jonathan Genest-Jourdain on Aboriginal Affairs Minister! It is insult to Indigenous people! Becuz of John Duncan NOT knowledge about Aboriginal!
The best thing that Harper can do to improve relations with First Nations in the short term is to remove John Duncan from his position. Duncan is useless. However - he is a strong supporter of Harper ideology, which is why he will stay where he is.
The NDP's silence and lack of leadership regarding taking a position on Idle No More (like, say, openly and publicly supporting it) has not gone unnoticed.Check out this mealy-mouthed pathetic statement (Released yesterday! Such visionaries!) which does not once mention the name Idle No More.
unnoticed by who? you? i feel the NDP has been there since the beginning and aren't jerky come latlies hoping to gain political points.
i think the statement is just gr8. political parties don't need to co-opt our movement. the statement was supportive on point and non-infringing on OUR movement.
I wish Mulcair had gone first. I have heard all the arguments pro and con, and I just wish he had gone when this strated. He is the Leader of the OO and government in waiting. Its embrassing, and harmful to the Social Democratic movement. People have long memories. I am willing to listen to anyone who wants to counter this. But, right now, its how I feel.
embarrassed? why?
i don't know if there's political agendas at play here with some posters. or not. but some of the posts are pretty self-absorbed if not.
do ya really think this is 'bout how settlers feel about the NDP?
Quizzical, my question is how will this play out politically? We know the Libs will try to exploit it and say we are there for you and the NDP wasn't. Like it or not, framing matters. What do you think, that is all I am asking. So?
Mulcair opened his home to FN Chiefs. There was no agenda, he was going to be there right from the beginning to the end, no passing the buck to anyone else. He was ready to listen and engage in dialogue. The fact that it fell apart was unfortunate. I hope he tries again soon.
DeWar said that Chief Spence acknowldeged Mulcair's letter to Harper (Dec 18). She is not calling on meeting him or anyone but Harper and the GG together.
I hear Romeo is back on Monday.
.
Mulcair called for Spence to end her hunger strike today on CTV's QP. he also said he's been in constant touch with Atleo, whom he calls an extraordinary leader.
Mulcair called for Spence to end her hunger strike today on CTV's QP.
Who the fuck is Mulcair to call for Spence to do anything?
I agree with onlinediscountanvil, what the hell wrong with mulcair?! did he listen to chief coon come? Geez!
Idle No More not happy about Atleo becuz he is Harper's lapdog........ they want abolish Indian Act "Band Council".
Question Period on CTV NewsNet / News Channel today has a full hour devoted to First Nation issues related to Friday's meeting. Tom Mulcair (NDP) is interviewed for his opinion - as is Pam Palmater. Also on QP today, one of the founders of Idle No More says INM does NOT at this time support blockades as a form of protest - INM is meant to be a peaceful movement. QP is repeated on CTV at 5pm eastern. AFN could not make anyone available for today's show.
Also on that QP today - they talk about the 175 straight lawsuits that FN have won, including 5 in the 32 days Chief Spence has been on her hunger strike. They talk about what this means for resource development - huge implications here.
So, then what is up with Mulcair? I dont'really understand at all what is going on here.
Mulcair called for Spence to end her hunger strike today on CTV's QP.Who the fuck is Mulcair to call for Spence to do anything?
Indeed.
The link to the paternalistic piece of shit's statement is here.
Why can't Mulcair, who leads the party most supportive of First Nations - think Charlie Angus - join with First Nation leaders in calling for Chief Spence to end her fast?
Are we going to discuss this same stuff in three different threads?
Boom Boom, he can tell Spence in private what he thinks she should do - and she can tell him what she thinks of his advice. When he says it in public, however, he becomes a paternalistic piece of shit, interfering in a struggle where he has no business taking sides and giving "advice" - and undermining Spence's own actions.
The right wing attack machine have done a real number on Spence and she has now become part of the issue unfortunately.
The right wing attack machine have done a real number on Spence and she has now become part of the issue unfortunately.
Great point! That is very true.
Which is why Mulcair shouldn't be publicly telling her what he thinks she should do.
Mulcair's statement doesn't bother me. I heard Coon Come on the radio, and he made sense. The governor general is just a figurehead. It's really not worth jeopardizing one's health in a hunger strike over the demand that an irrelevant figurehead also be present for a meeting with Harper. She won this battle in getting the ball rolling. Might be time to celebrate that, replenish herself, and prepare for round two.
Mulcair's statement doesn't bother me. I heard Coon Come on the radio, and he made sense. The governor general is just a figurehead. It's really not worth jeopardizing one's health in a hunger strike over the demand that an irrelevant figurehead also be present for a meeting with Harper. She won this battle in getting the ball rolling. Might be time to celebrate that, replenish herself, and prepare for round two.
Should we open a new thread just to dump on Chief Spence and to explain, in slow simple words, to First Nations folks that the Governor-General is just a figurehead?
Or can we just keep up this pro-Mulcair crap in all the existing threads?
Ok, some news that's relevant to this thread topic:
[size=10][url=http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1314509--thomas-mulc... Mulcair endorses Conservative efforts with First Nations[/url][/size]
An agreement by Prime Minister Stephen Harper to throw his weight behind renewed efforts to deal with First Nations concerns received the cautious endorsement of NDP Leader Tom Mulcair.“There is progress because they’re talking very openly now about an enhanced process and an accelerated process for treaty rights, that’s a good thing,” Mulcair said Sunday in an interview with the Star.
Mulcair said although hurdles remain, where provinces like B.C. have few treaties, he understood that Harper would create a cabinet-level committee to tackle treaty implementation issues. “Even though it’s bureaucratic — it is a step in the right direction.”
On the issue of Chief Spence:
Mulcair has not visited Spence on Victoria Island, a 10-minute walk from Parliament Hill. He said 16 of his MPs have gone and he has not ruled it out.
“I think there’s a grassroots movement there that, for now, I’m letting my individual MPs who represent the ridings meet (her). But I’m not precluding it but I would hope that she put her health first.”
I'm very supportive of the Idle No More campaign, and of First Nation rights. One thing I still don't understand is when Chief Theresa Spence originally made her "demands", there was no mention of the GG. Her demands were answered, and it just seemed like she wasn't willing to meet regardless of how many people would be attending, she just seemed to add further requests. I think that was the turning point, in terms of public support for Spence anyway.
You're mistaken, toaster. She referred to both the PM and the G-G from day one. Does that change your mind, or do you still think her demands were answered and she just keeps adding more requests? If I provide you with proof, will that change your mind? Just want to ensure I'm not wasting my time and yours.
[b]December 10, 2012[/b]
[url=http://aptn.ca/pages/news/2012/12/10/attawapiskat-chief-spence-says-not-... Chief Spence says not “afraid to die” as she launches hunger strike[/url]
Attawapiskat Chief Theresa Spence stood at the steps leading up to the Peace Tower on Parliament Hill Monday and said she was “willing to die” if the federal government ignored her call for a meeting between Prime Minister Stephen Harper, Queen Elizabeth II and First Nations leaders.Spence plans to begin her hunger strike Tuesday morning after a sunrise ceremony on Victoria Island, just up the Ottawa River from Parliament Hill.
“I am willing to die for my people, the pain is too much,” said Spence. “Somebody asked me if I was afraid to die. No, I am not afraid to die, it’s a journey we have to go on and I will go and I am looking forward to it.”
Spence told reporters who had gathered for her small press conference that the Canadian government was ignoring the treaties and that the Crown, in whose name the treaties were signed, is ignoring the breakdown of the relationship. She wants the prime minister, the Queen, [b]or a representative[/b] [i.e. the Governor General], to sit down with First Nations leaders and reestablish the treaty relationship.
Thanks, oda.
Why, even Tom Mulcair belatedly and momentarily figured out [url=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/pm-urged-to-help-end-first-... December 18[/url] what the demands were:
In a letter to Mr. Harper, NDP Leader Tom Mulcair called on the Prime Minister and the Governor-General to meet with aboriginal leaders to end the protests.
That was before he decided he could safely throw Chief Spence under the bus and support one FN faction over another. Hey, that strategy worked for the Romans. Why quarrel with success?
Mulcair's statement doesn't bother me. I heard Coon Come on the radio, and he made sense. The governor general is just a figurehead. It's really not worth jeopardizing one's health in a hunger strike over the demand that an irrelevant figurehead also be present for a meeting with Harper. She won this battle in getting the ball rolling. Might be time to celebrate that, replenish herself, and prepare for round two.
Should we open a new thread just to dump on Chief Spence and to explain, in slow simple words, to First Nations folks that the Governor-General is just a figurehead?
Or can we just keep up this pro-Mulcair crap in all the existing threads?
Don't get me wrong. I think her strategy has been great so far. By involving the Queen in her demands for a meeting she is bringing public attention to the past treaty rights, and tying it into how these are being breached by such things as the so-called "Jobs, Growth and Long-term Prosperity Act". Further, calling for an open meeting because previous closed meetings were so unproductive was also good, which highlighted past failures, putting greater emphasis on getting real results in the present. But, as someone who's been involved in contract negotiations, I did also like some of what Coon Come said (that each side should leave a little manoeuvring room, and not start out with a final offer) . Plus, as someone who likes eating, I just can't imagine not eating for that long.
What to make of this? On the issue of the hunger strike itself, several First Nations leaders have called on Spence to end the strike. so there is some disagreement within First Nations communities about which is the best way forward. Of course people who have the same goal may differ in the paths they choose to arrive, and one of the issues with a decentralized movement is that public disagreement can create confusion. In any case, the dialogue is open, and it will move forward as it may.
As for Mulcair, to an extent, I can understand his statement. As a political figurehead, obviously he will try to manipulate the political process for a particular outcome, so that is the approach he is taking in trying to force Harper to deal with First Nations issues. And he should express concern for Chief Spence's health. It's one thing to encourage people to take advantage of whatever openings that arise, but I'm not comfortable with any politician telling people how they should go about protesting (with the obvious exception of denouncing blatant violence) since in a public democracy a politician's mandate derives directly from the people. More worrisome for me is the fact that while several NDP MPs have met with Spence, Mulcair has not but sees fit to say what she should do. It sends a message that while the Party Faithful appear to have free rein, that the Leader Himself is ultimately the final authority.
No surprise that our 'loyal opposition' leader Mulcair went with Harper, Atleo, Ed John and the other AFN 'friendlies'. Let us not forget he is auditioning to lead a settler state after all, like the one in the ME, also based on colonialism and genocide of which he claims to be 'an ardent supporter in all situations and circumstances.' NDP = No Difference Party.
No surprise that our 'loyal opposition' leader Mulcair went with Harper, Atleo, Ed John and the other AFN 'friendlies'. Let us not forget he is auditioning to lead a settler state after all, like the one in the ME, also based on colonialism and genocide of which he claims to be 'an ardent supporter in all situations and circumstances.' NDP = No Difference Party.
Where did you get his from? Do you have supportive proof? Please supply quotes from Mulcair for this.
look up, look way up...
#34
look up, look way up...
[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV2P6P4p6Hg]and I'll call Rusty![/url]
=
You're mistaken, toaster. She referred to both the PM and the G-G from day one. Does that change your mind, or do you still think her demands were answered and she just keeps adding more requests? If I provide you with proof, will that change your mind? Just want to ensure I'm not wasting my time and yours.
Why are you getting so defensive? From oda's post, it seems as if she wanted a meeting with any one of the three "She wants the prime minister, the Queen, or a representative". If she wanted 2 of the 3, it should have read "She wants the prime minister, and either the Queen or a representative" Not sure if the media changed what she said, or she actually said it like that. But either way, that's probably s how I (along with many other Canadians ) misinterpreted what she was saying.
As I said, toaster, I wasn't interested in wasting my time. I get defensive when the whole political spectrum starts attacking Theresa Spence.
How about commenting on the fact that Mulcair understood clearly, on Dec. 18, that a meeting with the G-G was being requested?
So, as I asked at the start, are you now willing to retract your charge that as soon as she gets something, she just asks for more?
From oda's post, it seems as if she wanted a meeting with any one of the three "She wants the prime minister, the Queen, or a representative". If she wanted 2 of the 3, it should have read "She wants the prime minister, and either the Queen or a representative" Not sure if the media changed what she said, or she actually said it like that. But either way, that's probably s how I (along with many other Canadians ) misinterpreted what she was saying.
The very first sentence references "her call for a meeting between Prime Minister Stephen Harper, [b]Queen Elizabeth II[/b] and First Nations leaders."
Later in the article she states; "I want [b]the Crown[/b], the prime minister and all the leaders to sit down and rebuild that relationship and honour and protect the treaty”.
It seems pretty clear to me that the "or" is a choice between the Queen herself, or her representative; the Governor General - not any of the above.
Even if you found the wording less than clear, I don't think any lingering confusion over Chief Spence's original demands can be reasonably attributed to a single article on APTN's website from over a month ago. If Canadians are under the mistaken impression that she's been moving the goalposts, that's on them, not her.
As I said, toaster, I wasn't interested in wasting my time. I get defensive when the whole political spectrum starts attacking Theresa Spence. How about commenting on the fact that Mulcair understood clearly, on Dec. 18, that a meeting with the G-G was being requested? So, as I asked at the start, are you now willing to retract your charge that as soon as she gets something, she just asks for more?
If you aren’t interested, then why keep posing questions and furthering the discussion. I think you’re having the argument with the wrong person. I said from the start I am in favor of the Idle No More movement and First Nation (and all Aboriginal) rights. I was simply seeking clarification about Theresa Spence’s situation. I already mentioned that I misinterpreted what she said, so I don’t feel like I need to say that again, and it baffles me why you keep asking for me to say it again. I never made any “charges” against her, notice how I said “she just seemed to add further requests”, as I sought clarification, I wasn’t making a statement.
Ok, some news that's relevant to this thread topic:
[size=10][url=http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1314509--thomas-mulc... Mulcair endorses Conservative efforts with First Nations[/url][/size]
Thanks, Unionist. This is exactly the kind of leadership I was looking for, and expected.
