.
Bye, bye Stephen Harper, you are finally done!
Sat, 2021-11-20 21:52
#252
Thu, 2013-10-31 15:33
#253
As Senate scandal festers, the unthinkable has happened: Crowds are turning up to question period
Thomas Mulcair gets a standing ovation as he stands during question period in the House of Commons on last Thursday.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/10/31/as-senate-scandal-festers-the-un...
Fri, 2013-11-08 02:30
#254
Canada's Drift Toward Authoritarian Rule - by Roger Annis
http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/11/06/canadas-drift-toward-authoritaria...
"...On the two fundamental policy issues that Harper is likely to trumpet in the next federal election - globalized trade and investment deals, and incresed fossil fuel extraction - the Liberals and NDP are in agreement with much of it..."
Fri, 2013-11-08 06:36
#255
I just watched the last few Question Periods on CPAC. I don't think Harper has actually "answered" a question in over a week.
Mulcair has started to comment every time Harper avoids answering. The evasions are especially obvious because Mulcair's questions are so pointed and simple.
Maybe the NDP should run a box score on the number of unanaswered questions.
When I was a young lawyer I used to get frustrated when a witness would not answer a question. Then I started to realize this was golden. The witness may think he is being clever but the questioner can really exploit the refusal to answer to undermine the witness's credibility.
Mulcair has learned that lesson. Harper has not.
Sat, 2013-11-09 13:59
#256
Good video on Mulcair succinctly stating that the main story is Harper's lies rather than the senators' splurging.
Sat, 2013-11-09 22:19
#257
Any way we can convince Mark Fiore to do a Canadian version of this animation?
Sun, 2013-11-10 22:05
#258
Those advocating on this thread for an NDP-Liberal accommodation during the next election ignore the last century of federal politics and the last 70 years or so or the right-wing coalitions in western Canada. In BC we have the Liberals which includes the Conservatives, both BC and Alberta had the Socreds, Sask has the Sask Party, Yukon has the Yukon Party. The "unite the right" movement is strong, and the liberals have been complicit for decades.
Perhaps Tommy Douglas reminds us best in his story about Mouseland... and how we have persistently voted the black cats out only to replace them with the White cats, and vice-versa.
Watch it here: http://youtu.be/kdwySCMovHk
Wed, 2013-11-20 19:34
#259
Humm...............
Mulcair says new Senate revelations show PMO has 'lots to hide'
On Wednesday, NDP Leader Thomas Mulcair stood up in question period and asked a simple first question: “Does the prime minister want to change anything regarding the testimony he has given” about the Senate scandal?
http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/mulcair-says-new-senate-revelations-show-...
Wed, 2013-11-20 19:49
#260
Seriously Steevie, this does not look good.
It sure looks like your ole buddies Nigel Wright, the Duffster, and the Ford Family of City of Toronto fame are going to do you in, eh!
Canadian working people ...er... Union hater Jason Kenney will soon be ordering up some new traveling Conservative leadership campaign clothes and shoes I imagine.
Stephen Harper uses RCMP affidavit to defend against questions
NDP Leader Tom Mulcair asked the prime minister if he wanted to change anything he's told the House since the story of the deal first broke on May 15.
"Unfortunately for him, on May 14, Nigel Wright wrote that the PM did know that he, Wright, had, quote, personally assisted Mike Duffy. Is that true?" Mulcair said.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/stephen-harper-uses-rcmp-affidavit-to-de...
Wed, 2013-11-20 19:54
#261
To be expected of course.
Signs Harper Is Gearing Up to Declare War on Unions
Tory tweets, convention chatter and looming legislation hint at what may be coming, say labour advocates.
"Just wrapped up a meeting with several staff members, at midnight. Good thing they're not unionized!"
Although quickly deleted, the sentiment of Federal Conservative Employment Minister Jason Kenney's tweet on Nov. 19 hit a deep nerve for some trade unionists across the country -- particularly those already worried about what the federal Conservatives have in mind for labour legislation in Cana
http://www.thetyee.ca/News/2013/11/20/Signs-Harper-Is-Gearing-Up-to-Decl...
Wed, 2013-11-20 20:03
#262
More silliness from Dobbin, and even though the cartoon's not bad, it's time Dobbin is put out to pasture and retires.
Moving Beyond Our Obsession with Stephen Harper
Press now for a reinvigorated democracy after the fall of the Harperium.
http://www.thetyee.ca/Opinion/2013/11/12/Moving-Beyond-Stephen-Harper/
Wed, 2013-11-20 22:43
#263
At worst, he personally ordered it done and chose the people who executed the plan. At the very least, he fostered an attitude within the party..., chose the managers of the people who committed these crimes and completely and utterly failed to exercise any oversight, supervision or leadership.In the end, it doesn’t really matter where [his] actions or lack of them fall on that scale. He is the leader and a leader is responsible for the actions of the people he leads.
If he had a right or honourable bone in his body, he’d admit that and resign immediately.
Wed, 2013-11-20 22:50
#264
So the most controlling Prime Minister in Canada's history, never saw nothin', and didn't know nothin'. Give us a break Steevie. When Nigel said this was going to end badly no doubt he probably was talking about you, and your brand of right-wing politics. What's it gonna take for you to tell Canadians the whole stinkin' truth about this filthy, corrupt Harper-led Conservative Senate scandal? Hopefully, for you and your own family's sake, some of your more astute political buddies will convinve you the jig is up, and it's time for you to cash in your prime ministers chips. Otherwise it sure looks like you are going to be dragged kicking and screaming down to the bottom of the sewer of Canadian politics.
Richard Nixon anyone!
Nixon 'Tricky Dicky' Part 1 of 3
Thu, 2013-11-21 04:23
#265
Thu, 2013-11-21 09:35
#266
''
Thu, 2013-11-21 09:48
#267
Harper is running scared .
But being an intellegient guy, Harper knows now every moment spent in the House of Commons will damage him even more.
http://www.cbc.ca/newsblogs/politics/inside-politics-blog/2013/11/pm-hea...
Thu, 2013-11-21 09:57
#268
There may be more than a couple of bad apples in the conservative barrel
The picture presented by the oRCMP of the ethical rot
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2013/11/20/there_may_be_more_than_a_c...
Fri, 2013-11-22 17:33
#269
Make up your own mind.
Sun, 2013-11-24 16:55
#270
Harper's done - it's just a matter of time before Jason Kenney replaces him, and maybe sooner than we think.
Mike Duffy wrote the cheque, but Nigel Wright covered the cost
http://www.straight.com/blogra/535326/mike-duffy-wrote-cheque-nigel-wrig...
http://www.oyetimes.com/news/canada/54881-rcmp-says-sen-gerstein-tried-t...
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2013/11/21/the_senate_tory_who_stood_...
http://www2.macleans.ca/2013/11/20/how-some-top-tories-appear-in-those-n...
http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Tandt+Corruption+intrigue/9199797/stor...
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/pmo-meddling-disturbing-23296537...
http://www.torontosun.com/2013/11/21/harper-in-the-hot-seat-over-rcmp-do...
http://www.leaderpost.com/news/Mandryk+Wright+toppling+Harper+populism/9...
--------------------------
The noose is definitely tightening around Harper's neck.
Harper dodges, but Tory senators support Liberal bid to study audit meddling
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Harper+dodges+Tory+senators+support+Lib...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Senate scandal may have made Stephen Harper an electoral liability in West
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/11/22/john-ivison-senate-scanda...
-------------------------
PM didn't know staff asked Conservative Party to pay Duffy's expenses: spokesperson 
------------------
CTV QP: The Scrum on Duffy deal
-------------------------------------------
CTV QP: Reaction to Harper's response
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4685
Sun, 2013-11-24 23:42
#271
On CTV's Question Period, John Ivison (yes that Con lapdog) said that on Friday in conversations with 8 Con MPs that there is growing alarm with where Harper is taking the party electorally with some even saying that if Nigel Wright is charged a significant number of MPs are willing to demand that Harper step down, and let Flaherty be interim leader until a leadership convention picks a new leader. You will find the comments after 32:30 minutes of the podcast below.
http://www.ctvnews.ca/polopoly_fs/1.1558093!/httpFile/file.mp3
Mon, 2013-11-25 08:35
#272
The question facing PM Harper is whether or not he decides to step down now or wait until the next election regardless of the outcome. If he steps down now, he will surely hand his successor the same type of mess Chretien handed Martin. If he waits untilt eh next election and is unsuccessful, the next leader will at least essentially not be left hanging onto the bag and try to clean up / explain what happened.
With that said, the calls for him to resign are starting.
Mon, 2013-11-25 15:47
#273
I don't particularly like the analogy of shooting at someone but it is a very well written article B66.
So the traitors so far are:
Jason Kenney, Lisa Raitt, Maxime Bernier and James Moore have already made the opening moves.
The question facing PM Harper is whether or not he decides to step down now or wait until the next election regardless of the outcome. If he steps down now, he will surely hand his successor the same type of mess Chretien handed Martin. If he waits untilt eh next election and is unsuccessful, the next leader will at least essentially not be left hanging onto the bag and try to clean up / explain what happened.
With that said, the calls for him to resign are starting.
--------------------
4855
Mon, 2013-11-25 17:00
#274
Very disappointing to see Canada represented like this.
Canada's response to nuclear deal 'unnecessarily hostile': former ambassador
http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/canada-s-response-to-nuclear-deal-unnecessa...
Nuclear Accord With Iran Opens Diplomatic Doors in the Mideast
President Obama boarding Air Force One on Sunday. He said Saturday night that a final agreement with Iran “won’t be easy.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/25/world/middleeast/with-iran-accord-obam...
-----------------------------------
Bring it on!
No kidding the RCMP did not find any "DIRECT" evidence of Harpers fingers on the cookie jar!!! We may not like Harper but he is not that stupid.
Conservatives question PMO’s tactics in growing Duffy-Wright scandal
http://www.hilltimes.com/news/news/2013/11/25/conservatives-question-pmo...
-----------------------------------------
4890
Tue, 2013-11-26 00:40
#275
Liberals, NDP go at it — and Tories get the bruises:
Voters of Brandon–Souris — a riding with a long history of loyalty to the conservative brand — sent Prime Minister Stephen Harper a clear message about the Senate scandal.
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2013/11/25/liberals_ndp_go_at_it_and_...
Tue, 2013-11-26 11:56
#276
Harper may be done, but that does not necessarily translatei into the Cons losing the next election so please be careful about making that mistake.
Senate scandal: Stephen Harper’s explanations defy belief, opposition MPs say
Stephen Harper’s claims that he was in the dark for months about the “criminal acts” run out of his office in the controversy over Sen. Mike Duffy’s expenses defy belief, opposition MPs charged Monday.
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2013/11/25/senate_scandal_stephen_har...
-----------------------------------------------------------------
In the dark or not, Harper’s badly wounded
“How could it be,” Charlie Angus of the NDP was saying, “that all the key people around him are named in RCMP affidavits and the prime minister expects us to believe that he didn’t know anything?”
It’s the central question. How could Stephen Harper have been so unaware of what was going on with something as potentially toxic as the Senate scandal? It’s out of character. His control-freak ways have been repeatedly documented. He is one of the most micro of micromanagers.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/in-the-dark-or-not-harpers-b...
-------------------------------
Oh, oh!
Nigel Wright, lawyers face legal repercussions unless Harper knew about the Duffy deal, expert says
http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/11/26/nigel-wright-lawyers-face-legal-...
Tue, 2013-11-26 13:52
#277
Humm...............
Mulcair says new Senate revelations show PMO has 'lots to hide'
On Wednesday, NDP Leader Thomas Mulcair stood up in question period and asked a simple first question: “Does the prime minister want to change anything regarding the testimony he has given” about the Senate scandal?
http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/mulcair-says-new-senate-revelations-show-...
Interesting. From the article:
When asked [by Mulcair] specifically what “good to go” meant, Harper said it meant “good to go with Mr. Duffy repaying his own expenses.”
Why would permission have to be sought from Harper for Duffy to repay his own expenses? The answer is permission would not be required. Appears to be a fiction from Harper.
Wed, 2013-11-27 17:17
#278
The clock is ticking Steevie!
Former Conservative staffer asks Stephen Harper to come clean or resign
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/canada-politics/former-conservative-staff...
------------------------
Often the comment section is more interesting as the author of the article is out to lunch .
QP Wednesday: Looking for answers in all the wrong places
http://www.ipolitics.ca/2013/11/27/qp-wednesday-looking-for-answers-in-a...
- Ron
- Rank 5
- Trusted
It appears that Justin needs a script - taking off the training wheels will be long in the future: "unplugged", he gets into trouble!
General Stonewall Jackson has nothing on Stonewall Harper.
Keep up the pressure Tom, he'll finally have to - as Joe Clark says - "relate to the facts". His Sgt. Schultz " I know nothing" shtick isn't workin
Wed, 2013-11-27 17:38
#279
How high did the lying go in the PMO? 
By Tasha Kheiriddin | Nov 21, 2013 8:59 pm | 15 Comments
http://www.ipolitics.ca/2013/11/21/how-high-did-the-lying-go-in-the-pmo/
---------------------------
http://www.ipolitics.ca/2013/11/26/mulcair-does-the-work-trudeau-reaps-t...
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http://www.ipolitics.ca/2013/11/01/the-man-in-the-high-tower-harper-unde...
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Whoa.................................!
Harper is good as gone if he gave ‘good to go’ order
http://www.ipolitics.ca/2013/11/24/harper-is-good-as-gone-if-he-gave-goo...
Thu, 2013-11-28 11:23
#280
Canada's Official Opposition Leader may soon have some very significant additional ammunition to seriously hammer Harper's Government with in QP.
On the CBC National tonite, Glen Greenwald's shared information that he has via Snowden, concerning Canada being in cahoots with the USA probably ilegally evesdropping on other countries leaders at world summits.
------------------------------------------------
Not gonna happen.
Stephen Harper is banking on short memories, Senate scandal forgotten by 2015
http://beaconnews.ca/blog/2013/11/senate-scandal-winding-down-whither-st...
Thu, 2013-11-28 12:39
#281
http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/news/Flaherty+submitted+redacted+expens...
Illegal redaction of documents.
Thu, 2013-11-28 18:23
#282
On and on it goes, where it stops, nobody knows.
Senators block key Deloitte witness on Mike Duffy audit call Auditors tell committee that senior partner phoned to ask about P.E.I. senator's audit
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/senators-block-key-deloitte-witness-on-m...
Thu, 2013-11-28 21:51
#283
Mon, 2013-12-02 19:01
#284
The Golden Boy from the flatlands stirs Tory hopes
http://www.ipolitics.ca/2013/11/28/the-golden-boy-from-the-flatlands-sti...
---------
http://www.ipolitics.ca/2013/11/29/in-hockey-book-harper-thanks-nigel-wr...
-------------------------------------
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/michael-chong-s-bill-would-give-mps-powe...
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Harper Says He Did No Wrong? Let Him Prove It
Answering these questions under oath would do wonders for PM's credibility.
Sooner or later, someone is going to have to explain why the PMO went to such extraordinary lengths to keep Deloitte from poking around in the affairs of the guy with the killer wink.
That someone should be the prime minister. ![[Tyee]](http://thetyee.cachefly.net/ui/img/ico_fishie.png){kind=small}
http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2013/11/30/Harper-Wrongdoing/?utm_source=daily...
---------------------------
5400
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Good article and worth a read.
Is the senate scandal Canada's Watergate?
http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/gerry-caplan/2013/12/senate-scandal-cana...
----------------------------------------------------
Harper confidante Senator Carolyn Stewart Olsen’s statement on Duffy audit ‘not consistent with facts’: RCMP
Since the RCMP documents were released Wednesday, the prime minister has said nothing about this. When Tom Mulcair asked about Stewart Olsen in question period, Harper replied by pointing at Duffy and Wright, and neither he nor anyone in his government has made a statement about her failure to be forthcoming with the police. So far as we know, they approve.
And consider that Sen. Irving Gerstein, the chief bagman for the Conservative party, called Michael Runia, a managing partner of Deloitte Canada, which benefits from millions of dollars in contracts from both the party and the government, to discuss the Duffy audit, according to police.
On March 21, after talking to Gerstein, PMO staffer Patrick Rogers wrote to Wright: “Any repayments will not change Deloitte’s conclusions because they were asked to opine on residency. However, they can’t reach a conclusion on residency because lawyer has not provided them anything.”
Wright asked Gerstein to call Runia because Duffy was refusing to agree to pay back his disputed expenses (with Wright’s $90,000) depending on the conclusion of the audit, according to the RCMP.
At committee this week, Deloitte’s lead auditor on file, Gary Timm, a certified fraud examiner with 22 years of experience, testified that Runia called him to ask what would happen if Duffy paid the money back. Timm, who deserves the benefit of the doubt after a career of tracking down cheats, says he didn’t give any information to Runia and ended the call quickly.
But the email chain released by police makes it clear that the PMO somehow learned that Deloitte would not reach a conclusion on Duffy’s residence, and that the audit mysteriously failed to reach a conclusion.
The Liberals on the committee tried to move a motion to have Runia come to testify about this mystery. The Conservatives voted that down.
It is depressing to think that only the police are able to demand accountability from this government, and that the prime minister’s servants can’t be trusted to tell the police the truth.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/12/01/harper-confidante-senator-caroly...
Mon, 2013-12-02 20:46
#285
This guy has it right:
At worst, he personally ordered it done and chose the people who executed
the plan. At the very least, he fostered an attitude within the party [...],
chose the managers of the people who committed these crimes and completely and
utterly failed to exercise any oversight, supervision or leadership. In the
end, it doesn’t really matter where [his] actions or lack of them fall on that
scale. He is the leader and a leader is responsible for the actions of the
people he leads. If he had a right or honourable bone in his body, he’d admit
that and resign immediately
Mon, 2013-12-02 22:28
#286
I was disappointed with Baird's comments concerning the possible thaw in relations between Iran and USA, which could very well come back to haunt Harper in about 6 months time.
Mon, 2013-12-02 22:42
#287
Need to know: Stephen Harper’s little act of rebellion
Maybe when the Prime Minister sings that song, he’s just having a good time. Maybe he just likes the song. But it sure sounds like he’s stickin’ it to the man—where The Man, in this case, is his collective political opposition. Harper’s giving voice to a character that, he knows, resembles his critics’ image of him. He’s doing it awkwardly, as would any middle-aged dad with precious little stage presence. But, hey, screw it. Rock n’ roll, baby.
This morning, as the convention centre in downtown Toronto recovers from Herringbone’s set, The Globe and Mail ran a small note on A2 about a very special anniversary: On Dec. 2, 1973, The Who were jailed in Montreal for trashing their hotel room. Such are Harper’s rock idols. The Prime Minister is a law-and-order leader, usually standing behind a podium in a suit and glasses, but with a soft spot for rule breakers: his own little act of rebellion.
http://www2.macleans.ca/2013/12/02/need-to-know-stephen-harpers-little-a...
Tue, 2013-12-03 13:00
#288
There is some risk of a new leader being able to re-brand and lead the party to a victory in 2015. The more people refer to the Harper government the easier that would be.
The party faces considerable risks in spite of their financial advantages. The Liberals are clearly running to the right and are eating into their support. Frustrated social conservatives never fully satisfied with Harper and no longer believing he will deliver the country could decide to produce a new right wing western-based party, once again offering to clean up the ethical breaches of the Conservatives. That could drive the party to oblivion as it has before. Certainly one could hope that these peple find whatever financial resources they need to pursue that project.
Even without this, the Conservatives could learn just how narrow the distance is between first and third in a first-past-the-post system. Presently the Conservatives are polling about 26-28% and sinking. It would not take much to see the NDP which is just below them get more seats even with fewer votes. There is a floor of Conservative support in every riding of about 5-10% and when the party is this low there is not enough concentration to be sure of many seats. I could imagine them getting as low as 5 in Atlantic Canada (Mostly NB); 3 in Quebec; 10 Ontario; 12 Prairies; 20 Alberta; 10 BC-- Total 60 seats. A reduced NDP could still top this number.
On the other hand a new leader with a good campaign could still deliver a majority. It might not even be one of the usual suspects. If the Conservatives were to take a complete turn out of fear of losing everything they could choose a leader capable of giving them a resounding majority. For example, consider Jean Charest. His massive defeat in Quebec was to be reduced to 50 seats to the PQ's 54 in spite of being a tired government. He is still young (55 years old, 4 years younger than Mulcair). Charest is not hated in Atlantic Canada and could deliver perhaps 15 seats from there as well as perhaps another 30 from Quebec. He could also do well in Ontario. With a start like that it would not be hard to see a majority. That is just one game changer. The Conservatives ought to be feared.
The next election may be between three parties that will be right at the outset all widely accepted as capable of winning. That has never happened before. Almost anything can happen. I can imagine another Conservative majority or the script for the party falling to third. The Liberals and the NDP are in the same boat. Either party is capable of connecting and winning or falling to a poor third. Each party needs to consider what is needed to succeed. I think we have never seen such an unpredictable election as 2015.
Tue, 2013-12-03 23:24
#289
There is some risk of a new leader being able to re-brand and lead the party to a victory in 2015. The more people refer to the Harper government the easier that would be.
The party faces considerable risks in spite of their financial advantages. The Liberals are clearly running to the right and are eating into their support. Frustrated social conservatives never fully satisfied with Harper and no longer believing he will deliver the country could decide to produce a new right wing western-based party, once again offering to clean up the ethical breaches of the Conservatives. That could drive the party to oblivion as it has before. Certainly one could hope that these peple find whatever financial resources they need to pursue that project.
Even without this, the Conservatives could learn just how narrow the distance is between first and third in a first-past-the-post system. Presently the Conservatives are polling about 26-28% and sinking. It would not take much to see the NDP which is just below them get more seats even with fewer votes. There is a floor of Conservative support in every riding of about 5-10% and when the party is this low there is not enough concentration to be sure of many seats. I could imagine them getting as low as 5 in Atlantic Canada (Mostly NB); 3 in Quebec; 10 Ontario; 12 Prairies; 20 Alberta; 10 BC-- Total 60 seats. A reduced NDP could still top this number.
On the other hand a new leader with a good campaign could still deliver a majority. It might not even be one of the usual suspects. If the Conservatives were to take a complete turn out of fear of losing everything they could choose a leader capable of giving them a resounding majority. For example, consider Jean Charest. His massive defeat in Quebec was to be reduced to 50 seats to the PQ's 54 in spite of being a tired government. He is still young (55 years old, 4 years younger than Mulcair). Charest is not hated in Atlantic Canada and could deliver perhaps 15 seats from there as well as perhaps another 30 from Quebec. He could also do well in Ontario. With a start like that it would not be hard to see a majority. That is just one game changer. The Conservatives ought to be feared.
The next election may be between three parties that will be right at the outset all widely accepted as capable of winning. That has never happened before. Almost anything can happen. I can imagine another Conservative majority or the script for the party falling to third. The Liberals and the NDP are in the same boat. Either party is capable of connecting and winning or falling to a poor third. Each party needs to consider what is needed to succeed. I think we have never seen such an unpredictable election as 2015.
2015 begins as a 3-way... good analysis.
I appreciate your post.
Tue, 2013-12-03 23:59
#290
Back in 2011 or 2012, I heard someone saying the Conservatives could collapse. I thought it was far fetched. But now it's a remote possibility. The scandals are really hurting Harper, and the Liberals are really running hard to the right.
I still think the most likely scenario is a 3-way split, with a minority government. But it's always possible that there could be a disruptive event that changes the picture.
Wed, 2013-12-04 19:58
#291
Could we close this thread, now that we're discussing the same topic [url=http://rabble.ca/babble/canadian-politics/so-who-going-to-be-replacing-s...?
Wed, 2013-12-04 19:58
#292
Good idea.
Sun, 2013-12-15 17:11
#293
i hope i dont get in trouble for this. Maybe the moderators could put it in the right thread.
I've been reading that there is more coming from the senate scandal next year. Can anyone tell me what else could happen with this scandal?
It seems to me that this isn't as bad as we hope it is. Could this cause a 1993 collapse for the Cons? or maybe just sent back to Alberta?