Quebec polls and parties 2014

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DaveW

latest latest -- PQ trending down to minority territory, but nothing decided:

http://www.threehundredeight.com/

... despite the Liberals' advantage in the popular vote, the PQ's enduring edge among francophones gives the party the edge in seats, with 62 to 57 for the Liberals. But that now puts the PQ in minority territory, though their likely seat range (56 to 70) straddles the line exactly. The Liberal range, at 50 to 66 seats, also puts them over the majority mark of 63 seats, though they are less likely to win a majority government than the PQ.

If those numbers look unusual, consider the results of the 1998 election. The Liberals won the popular vote by 0.7 points, but lost the election by 28 seats. Here, the margin is five seats with a two point advantage. And 1998 is increasingly looking like a good reference: Mario Dumont's ADQ took 12% of the vote in that election, a number that the CAQ could easily find itself with on Apr. 7 (there was no party like Québec Solidaire in 1998, however. Its closest forerunner took just 0.6% of the vote).

How much of an advantage do the Liberals need province wide in order to win a majority government? This depends greatly on the distribution of vote within Quebec and the amount of support the CAQ captures. But consider that in 2008, when the Liberals won a slim majority government of 66 seats, they beat out the PQ by 6.9 points with the ADQ at 16%. Roughly speaking, then, the Liberals can probably expect to win a majority government of their own when their lead grows to more than three or four points.

 

 

DaveW

La Marois now publicly fears Liberal win : quite the change in 10 days!

http://www.journaldemontreal.com/2014/03/18/pauline-marois-sinquiete-dun...

Alors que le plus récent sondage place les libéraux devant le Parti québécois, Pauline Marois a ramené le fantôme de l'ancien premier ministre Jean Charest dans la campagne, tel un bonhomme sept heures de la politique québécoise.

«Est-ce que qu’on veut revenir à ce qu’on a connu sous M. Charest? Même vision, même équipe, mêmes perspectives, mêmes problèmes politiques», a martelé Mme Marois, qui a prononcé le nom de M. Charest presque aussi souvent que celui de Philippe Couillard.

Elle a d’ailleurs rappelé l’opposition du gouvernement Charest à la tenue d’une commission d’enquête sur l’industrie de la construction. «S’il y a eu la commission Charbonneau, c’est sous l’impulsion de l’opposition du Parti québécois et bien sûr, la CAQ y était pour quelque chose. Mais vous savez très bien que le gouvernement ne voulait pas céder», a lancé la chef du Parti québécois.

Xelandre Xelandre's picture

La Presse Canadienne, cited by Le Devoir:

Sondage: Khadir envisage «beaucoup plus» que deux députés pour QS

And what if they held the balance of power?

 

lagatta

Thinking big is great, but I wish Amir would have been a little more cautious. I really liked their announcements recently on very concrete issues affecting the "popular classes". It is a great way of changing the conversation from the Charter of Values crap. (I DO support secularism, and a secular charter, but the PQ is very, very far from the meaning of secularism, which pertains to the state, not how citizens dress and behave).

 

Unionist

lagatta wrote:

Thinking big is great, but I wish Amir would have been a little more cautious.

Amir... cautious... oxymoron alert!

But I do love him.

 

Brachina

 I actually agree with Amir, 2 to 4 seats does nothing for them, they need to be seen as equal at least to the CAQ, perferably better and with growth outside Montreal to be scene as a possible future contender. They need miniumal the balance of power, or major growth, I'd say minium 5 seats, although 10 or higher would be preferable if they are to encourage the NDP not to run a Quebec NDP next time. Amir I thik knows what's at stake.

CanadaOrangeCat

The polls are going to be way behind the sentiment which seems to be lightning fast in Quebec. Whatever poll is going to be a week behind.

I would expect many QS votes would spread out from where they are. The centre and east of Montreal south of the 40 could be low hanging fruit for QS. A parliamentary Labour caucus would be the best opposition to either a Liberal or PQ government. It depends on the unions.

Stockholm

I could see QS gaining Ste. Marie-St. Jacques but its hard to see any other riding they could win...Laurier-Dorion has way too many Liberal-voting non-francophones to go anything but Liberal, unless the PQ vote in that riding totally collapsed and went QS.

Bärlüer

Hopefully, QS can continue to raise its profile with the coming debates. Last year, Françoise David's performance attracted very favorable comments, and it obviously helped her win her seat. This year, the element of "surprise" will be gone and expectations will be higher, but I remain confident that Françoise David can do well and improve QS's standing.

However, even with a good performance and the attendant increased profile, I remain skeptical that QS can hope to make inroads in more than 3 other ridings, namely, as pretty much everyone is well aware of now, Sainte-Marie—Saint-Jacques, Hochelaga and Laurier-Dorion.

lagatta

Laurier-Dorion has already had a PQ MNA. By the way, our candidate in that riding is a Chilean immigrant.

Stockholm

True but the only time the PQ won Laurier-Dorion was in a byelection when the Charest government was extremely unpopular and turnout dropped precipitously - Liberals stayed home and it was a byelection so they knew it made no difference. In this election i suspect that non-francophones will turn out in droves to vote against Marois...hopefully some of that vote will go to Quebec Solidaire and not all to the Liberals. it would be nice to see a Liberal lose in the riding that overlaps with Justin Trudeau's federal riding!

DaveW

Gawd,

imagine if Couillard DOES raise the Claude Blanchet "deal"  issue at a TV debate... get out the popcorn:

http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/elections-quebec-2014/201403/19/01-474...

En conférence de presse mercredi, le chef libéral a affirmé qu'il a lui-même « quatre ou cinq questions » à renvoyer à Mme Marois si elle s'aventure sur ce terrain lors du débat des chefs. L'un d'eux est le « deal » évoqué par Michel Arsenault à la Commission Charbonneau entre le mari de Mme Marois, Claude Blanchet, et la SOLIM, le bras immobilier du Fonds de solidarité de la FTQ.

« Moi, je n'aborderai pas ces questions-là avec elle. Si elle choisit de le faire au débat, elle va y goûter. Ça, je vous le dis. C'est clair », a lancé Philippe Couillard.

scott16

Can someone tell me what Couillard's chances of winning in Roberval? Does the PKP candidacy have any effect on his chances of winning in Roberval?

DaveW

PQ taking Roberval very seriously;

of course if election tilts Liberal, local temptation to elect the new PM quite strong:

http://tvanouvelles.ca/lcn/infos/national/electionsquebec2014/archives/2...

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

I was on the métro today and on the screen there was talk about a CAQ /PQ coalition.

I almost threw myself in front of the métro.

CanadaOrangeCat

The really solid Liberal areas in Laurier-Dorion seem to be west of St. Denis. Everything east of there, it is not so pronounced. The Liberals came second in most of them, giving them the spot. QS got 24% in the district last time, so it is not impossible. And it is definitely not impossible to conceive of them coming in second.

As far as the federal riding of Papillon is concerned, the word has been that Trudeau has been riding on the split between BQ and NDP supporters. That is a much more oil-and-water situation than PQ and QS I think. I don't think an NPDQ would be a very good idea.

DaveW

comparing this election to previous attempts of the PQ to gain a 2nd-term "good-government" mandate, I came upon this Wiki entry for the spring 1981 QC vote:

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89lection_g%C3%A9n%C3%A9rale_qu%C3%A9b%...

incredible to think PQ  could then jump from 41 to 49 per cent of the popular vote; today's party has fallen a dozen points from that peak, and a whole generation has failed to click with them, or vice versa

Matthieu

There were two parties back then, with the Union Nationale near death at 4%. In 2012, there were 6 that had at least 1% of the vote, with a near 3-way split between the three major parties. The people in Québec no longer want a two-party alternance and have been looking for alternatives for a long time. Proportional Representation is needed now.

CanadaOrangeCat

If Marois thinks she is going to have a mandate for anything with under 37% of the vote, there is going to be unrest. Demographically it does not look good for the PQ formula over time. The original view of a sovereign Quebec a generation ago was that it was going to be a good place to live.

The younger generations are much more internationalist and outgoing. But that does not in any way mean that Quebec as a nation is dead. Language is the face of the culture. What will be contained, economically, environmentally, and psychosocially? Knowledge is much more widespread now. The vision needs another dimension.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

New poll.

http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/new-poll-gives-liberals-five-point-lead-1.173...

But keep in mind,there is talk about a CAQ/PQ coalition.

6079_Smith_W
DaveW

Matthieu wrote:

The people in Québec no longer want a two-party alternance

The polls say otherwise...

Worth noting: under leader Rene Levesque in 1981 PQ drew 62 per cent of French vote;

today under "leadership" of P Marois they are polling 38 pc of francophones and headed downward. An era is ending, and should co-leader PKP get elected, a party split quite possible. 

lagatta

The Vice stuff is the usual inane anglo anti-Québec, anti "politics" crap. The kind of rightwing youth that shat on the Student Spring. Just as repulsive in their own way as the "values" crew.

And I HATE the morbid zombie stuff. Pornography of death.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

I agree about the Vice link......Anti-Québec right wing bigotry at its best.

Brachina

 At 37% to 32% a majority for the Liberals is a possiblity, especially if the the turn out for the PQ really is that low compared to the liberals. And the Quebec Liberals have the momentum (gag).

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

As I said...Legault is not going to go down with the ship.

Marois is going to give him an offer he can't refuse and Legault will be kicking the women and children out of the way to save his own skin.

The man is an unprincipled,disloyal weasel who is only concerned with power and his self-serving agenda.

Stockholm

Legault won't be around for that - his own riding of Assomption was won very narrowly last time and is not in an area of traditional strength for ADQ/CPC/CAQ. Assuming the CAQ gets reduced to 5 seats - I predict Legault will be personally defeated and the 5 or so CAQ survivors will be very small"c" conservative federalists from Beauce and suburban Quebec City who will have no interest in making a deal with Marois.

lagatta

I see that was Parizeau's riding. It isn't far at all from the islands of Montréal and Laval.

I know the PQ candidate, Pierre Paquette. Haven't heard from him in the media at all this campaign. It is so strange to think of him going along with the Québec values charter crap (I remember him from Chile solidarity campaigns, many lives ago, and later as a trade unionist and the secretary-general of the CSN). But of course he must be doing so.

Unionist

[url=http://www.lapresse.ca/le-soleil/actualites/dossiers/elections-quebecois... MP calls on voters to elect Québec solidaire candidate[/url]

Suzanne Tremblay represented Rimouski-Neigette-Témiscouata-Les Basques federally for the Bloc from 1993 to 2004. She is (of course) a member of the PQ, but is furious that the PQ inner circle has parachuted in one of their own (Harold Lebel), thus denying the candidacy to Thomas Briand-Gionest, a young local activist and student leader.

 

Stockholm

When it rains it pours!

DaveW

Double post

DaveW

the CTV poll showing Liberal lead increasing:

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/quebec-liberals-hold-five-point-lead-over...

The Quebec Liberal Party has a five-point lead over the Parti Quebecois ahead of the first debate of the election campaign, according to a new poll, which suggests voters have been put off by talk of a referendum should the PQ win a majority next month.

The CTV News/Ipsos Reid poll found that if an election were held tomorrow, Quebec’s Liberals would receive 37 per cent support from decided voters compared to 32 per cent for the PQ.

The Coalition Avenir Quebec is far behind, with 16 per cent support among decided voters, while Quebec Solidaire would receive 10 per cent support. About 12 per cent of voters were undecided.

 

DaveW

A crash of the PQ on April 7th could lead to a big fight and split within the party along left-right lines;

This would end 40+ years of Lib-PQ alternance.

For those of us who grew up on 1970s politics, that is hard to imagine, but party realignment does happen,

witness the rise and fall of the Bloc; parties have a limited life cycle sometimes.

 

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

New PQ attack ad.

http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/pq-uses-charbonneau-in-attack-ad-1.1738297

I wonder whether anyone will mention that Marois and her husband have been impicated by this inquiry.

lagatta

That can also backfire because Judge France Charbonneau has made a point of political neutrality. With her photo, it almost looks as if the PQ is insinuating that she is taking their side.

DaveW

you know, when you corner a rat ... Marois really is a low character, ready to do ANYTHING, charter / rumours / dumping old Cabinet friends -- to get another kick at the can in power

I would LOVE to see her whole effort crash and burn -- continuing its current Hindenburg-like course

cco

The "deal" people keep talking about was, in the wiretap, a supposed agreement for the PQ not to press for an inquiry, right? (I've seen a lot of attempts to conflate it with money the FTQ got from the Charest government, but nothing solid.)

In which case, Arsenault got ripped off, since it was months of nonstop PQ pressure that finally forced Charest to call the inquiry.

DaveW

the disastrous effects of a "third No" on PQ morale:

http://www.ledevoir.com/politique/quebec/403120/le-troisieme-non

Les effets sur le moral des souverainistes risquent d’être tout aussi désastreux. L’arrivée de PKP en a plongé certains dans une euphorie telle qu’ils ont perdu tout contact avec la réalité de l’électorat québécois. « Enfin, la souveraineté est de retour au centre des débats », s’est réjoui Jacques Parizeau, qui déplorait jusque-là la prudence du gouvernement Marois. On voit le résultat.

  On peut imaginer que des mois de pédagogie basée sur le livre blanc sur l’avenir du Québec annoncé par Pauline Marois permettraient de surmonter l’aversion qu’inspire la perspective d’un autre référendum, mais il était illusoire de croire que la simple présence de M. Péladeau permettrait d’y arriver en 30 jours.

  Après le fol espoir soulevé par l’apparition d’un sauveur auquel on était prêt à tout pardonner, pour autant qu’il nous conduise à la terre promise, le réveil ne peut être que brutal, avec toute l’amertume que cela ne manquera pas de créer.

 

Stockholm

DaveW wrote:

you know, when you corner a rat ... Marois really is a low character, ready to do ANYTHING, charter / rumours / dumping old Cabinet friends -- to get another kick at the can in power

I would LOVE to see her whole effort crash and burn -- continuing its current Hindenburg-like course

Looks like that will happen - a new Forum poll in Quebec now has the Liberals opening up a 13 point lead 45-32!!!

DaveW

wa-hoo!

and to think I was not looking forward to this election at all, and half-believed at one point all the PQ-majority nonsense....

It ain't over till it's over.

cco

Count me out on cheering on a Liberal victory.

DaveW

 I am going to be cheering the ouster of this idiotic Govt. and its stupid know-it-alls (Lisée, Drainville)...

we deal with the rest later,

but nothing advances here in QC until there is an END to the old Lib-PQ alternance, and the defeat/splitup of the PQ is the fastest way there

cco

The defeat/breakup of the Liberals would be an equally fast way there. But perhaps what you're trying to say (maybe not) is that nothing happens until those damn separatists realize their cause is lost and stop voting that way, which will enable anglos to only deliver 55% of the vote to the Liberals instead of 91%.

Two years ago I cheered the ouster of the idiotic, offensive, disgusting Liberal government, along with their mentality that they're entitled to govern Québec and the only thing holding them back are these pathetic francophone cultists who want national self-determination (not to mention those damn students with their casseroles). No matter my distaste for the PQ, I'm not ready to have the Liberals back.

My preferred electoral outcome would be a QS majority. Failing that, I'd like them to have the balance of power in a PQ minority. But failing even that, I will still root for (in the narrowest sense) the PQ over the Liberals -- yes, even with Péladeau, horrifying as he is. I never want to see Jean-Marc Fournier on the governing benches again. That's not going to be a very popular opinion in this thread, but there it is.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

My only gripe with the PQ is their shift to the right...followed by the Charter which is completely unnecessary.

The reality is that we won't have a QS majority,therefore the results of this election will be bad news no matter the outcome.

DaveW

well, cco,  take away your impossible options (QS majority, QS minority -- they're gonna get 2-3 seats!), and those you hold your nose at (PQ minority), and I think I am just as realistic to say let PQ crash and hope -- like the 1990s in Canada -- we end up with a splintered but functional 5-party system, breaking the old QC duopoly

Gotta start somewhere.

 

DaveW

and the hits just keep on coming: TO Star/Forum poll calls it a runaway Liberal trouncing of PQ: 45-32 ...

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/quebec/2014/03/20/quebec_election_poll_finds_liberals_surging_over_pq_with_first_debate_tonight.html

now THAT would likely lead to the extinction of the old PQ and clear the way for some innovation

 

lagatta

I can't salute a Liberal victory either. The PQ has been so ghastly this time round that we forget the corruption, repression and other horrors of the Québec Liberal Party. My only hope is a few more QS seats, but that won't be easy.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Does anyone really believe that there will be any surprises tonight during the debate?

Personally,there's nothing that could be said that will change my vote.

I'll be watching the hockey game.

cco

Should we have a drinking game?

My first proposed rule: Drink every time Couillard says "economy and jobs".

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

cco wrote:

Should we have a drinking game?

My first proposed rule: Drink every time Couillard says "economy and jobs".

I'd pass out in 15 minutes.

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