Alexandre Boulerice petition about Gaza

I'm still waiting for all you Libs who post on here and tell us how useless the NDP is how much you support the postion being taken here by members of the NDP caucus. After all, supporting people who are right is more important then being partisan, right? Isn't it? Didn't all of you say so earlier? Well? And you all KNOW who I am talking about. Well, going to step up now? Eh?

Obviously the NDP still has use for a few teasers within the organization to keep the few remaining social progressives hopeful and engaged.

Haroon Siddiqui does a good job framing where the three parties are at:

[url=http://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2014/07/26/trudeau_falls_in_li... falls in line with Harper’s stance on Gaza[/url]

Quote:

On the Israel-Gaza conflict, as with some other issues, our federal political establishment is offering voters little choice.

Lagatta you wrote:

" hate thinking in terms of "ethnic votes", but Trudeau does everything to foster such behaviour, and it would be ironic to see it backfire."

The Liberals as a party have been doing this since Trudeau the Great (his daddy). This is nothing new. They want people to think "tribally"; it works to their advantage, and their unabased in their fostering of this, rather then trying to have people think for themselves.

Call me a cynic, but that's what it looks like to me.

We could use a thread about New Democrats daring to question Mulcair's dictatorial alteration of the party's line on Israel and Palestine.

But I suppose this thread will do.

[url=http://rabble.ca/news/2014/08/ndp-youth-speak-out-on-gaza-its-time-to-ca... youth speak out on Gaza: 'It's time to call a spade a spade'[/url]

Quote:

As the next generation, we are destined to inherit incredible political, environmental and logistical challenges. For us, the past 21 days have been deeply disheartening, as we now see that we are also destined to inherit a more violent world. And it isn't only because Stephen Harper has proven himself (yet again) to be incompetent at representing Canada on the world stage but rather, also due to the hesitation from our Official Opposition when it comes to standing up for New Democratic values on this issue.

With respect to the current situation in Gaza, there can be no question: the NDP has been open about its desire to see hostilities cease from both sides in this conflict. Hamas must stop firing rockets indiscriminately at civilians, and so must the IDF.

But on the question of Palestine, let's be clear:

Section 4.1 (f) of the 2013 NDP Policy Book states that the NDP supports "working with partners for peace in Israel and Palestine, respecting UN resolutions and international law, supporting peaceful co­existence in viable, independent states with agreed­upon borders, an end to Israeli occupation of Palestinian land, and an end to violence targeting civilians."

These resolutions include those that call for the withdrawal from occupied territories during the 1967 war [1], the legitimacy of the struggle for liberation from foreign domination by all available means [2], condemnation of governments that don't recognize the right to self determination and independence of peoples under foreign domination[3], and more recently, the upgrade of Palestine to a nonmember state of the United Nations [4].

We demand a fair approach be taken with the situation in Gaza, one that adheres to the above mentioned United Nations resolutions, among many others. As citizens of the world we owe it to each other to admit that no state can ever achieve security through force of arms. If terror groups are to be rendered irrelevant, and the growth of extremism stemmed, then we must address the root cause of the violence, not its symptoms.

It is time for Canadians to know where the NDP stands on this issue: as the only party that seeks a comprehensive and viable solution on agreed upon borders, that guarantees the security of both Israeli and Palestinian citizens to co-­exist in peace.

That is why New Democrats should never shy away from condemning the slaughter of civilians, no matter where it happens, or who perpetrates the act. That is why we agree with independent groups like Jewish Voices for Peace, who have called for an end to the bombing of Gaza, and for Israel to be held accountable for its actions [5].

Very good, and very necessary - but so far, only one member of caucus has cautiously spoken out in public along these lines (Boulerice), while the rest cower in silence.

Many more voices will need to be raised if conscience is to overcome cowardice and perceived political expediency.

And here's some coverage of the youth's letter:

[url=http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/08/01/ndp-youth-gaza-letter_n_5642345....'s Youth Wing Chides Mulcair For Not Condemning Israeli Attacks In Gaza[/url]

jjuares wrote: Some of Unionists' language "...cower in silence...." "...cowardice..." While I am not happy with the line the NDP is taking I believe your language is particularly nasty- even for you.

I believe that the standard response in such cases, jjuares, is 'Don't feed the trolls!"

currents wrote:

I believe Unionist's language is actually quite  measured. As several of my friends, I have written to my NDP MP, Peggy Nash to express my outrage over the NDP's position on Gaza. Of course no answer while we all are still almost daily bombarded by fundraising e-mails of the party. If as jjuares indicates that the NDP MP's are not cowering but actually in all conscience agree with the official NDP line then the situation is even worse. It is a sad day when statements such as the ones by Ban Ki Moon condemning Israeli war crimes cannot be uttered by our party's MPs.

About Arthur Cramers lament for a statement of the youth wing of the LPC. I frankly do not care very much what the LPC thinks about this issue. But I think Mr. Cramer's post is a rather transparent way of deflecting serious criticism from the NDP. Shame on you. Tell us if you agree with the Mulcair/Dewar line on Gaza.

Silence is complicity.

Oh for crying out loud, I already said I object to Mulcair's postion and emailed to tell him so. I'm Jewish; I don't like what Israeli Jews are doing one bit, but don't accuse me of deflection. The NDP is bad enough; my point is the LPC types tell imply that on any issue they are pure as the drive snow, but on this, crickets. Its just more typical LPC hypcoricy. That was my point. Have you read none of my posts. The last pro-Isreali cheerleader you will find on ths board is me. I have never given a dime to Israel in my life and never will. They can go to hell as far as I am concerned. My old man was the same way; whenn they called asking for money, my old man (blessed be his memory) would say "oh, its bullets for Israel calling, Nope, not a dime from me"! Like Father, like Son; give me a break.

Now that Israel has withdrawn from Gaza, it will be safe to condemn Israel. In today's world, it is not safe to speak about what it is doing, but only what it did. As we are on a 24/7 news cycle, what happened a week ago is now ancient history. The hypocrisy never fails to amaze. When Israel was acting, they were 'allies' when everyone knew what they were doing. Now the rubble and corpses are plain to see, naughty naughty Israel! Don't do it again! What did they think Israel was doing in there? Giving out loaves and fishes?

Then, if Hamas lobs some more rockets over the wall, it all starts over again. Better send a guy who could not even beat George W. Bush in an election to try and sort it out. You think Netanyahu will take him seriously?

"Why is the media saying it was 1800 when it was only 1783?", we will surely hear from the Likud crowd. "Why are they saying that one was a child? He was throwing stones!"

Such numerology on human lives is sickening. There are 1.8 million human lives trying to escape from a hell-hole. They will do anything to get out. This has more to do with physics than anything. Have any of the actions of the Israeli military made Israel one iota safer?

Israel has to go from thinking of itself as a 'Jewish state' to being a modern secular multicultural state with a constitution. Palestine should be the same, and maybe the two could federate somehow. There needs to be a 'right of return' for Palestinians, as well as a safe haven for Jews, which was the original idea. Getting from here to there is the hardest part.

Mr. Netanyahu, tear down that wall.

Maybe there is a real discussion being attempted by part of the constitiencies of the NDP but such discussion certainly is not promoted very much by the party brass. A similar discussion may well be happening within the LPC, I certainly would not know and I suspect that Arthur Cramer would not know either. What I do know is that aside of Boulerice's statement which is really quite mild, there has been no condamnation by the NDP brass (Paul Dewar, Tom Mulcair) of the war crimes committed by Israel in Gaza. This is not about the opinion of Arthur Cramer on this issue, this is about the deafening silence of our great NDP  leaders. It seems that Arthur Cramer feels that since the LPC is craven, the NDP should get a free pass.

currents wrote:

Maybe there is a real discussion being attempted by part of the constitiencies of the NDP but such discussion certainly is not promoted very much by the party brass. A similar discussion may well be happening within the LPC, I certainly would not know and I suspect that Arthur Cramer would not know either. What I do know is that aside of Boulerice's statement which is really quite mild, there has been no condamnation by the NDP brass (Paul Dewar, Tom Mulcair) of the war crimes committed by Israel in Gaza. This is not about the opinion of Arthur Cramer on this issue, this is about the deafening silence of our great NDP  leaders. It seems that Arthur Cramer feels that since the LPC is craven, the NDP should get a free pass.

 

Currents, who are you? The fact is NDP Youth is out with a statement; other NDP MPs more or less have come out with statements, and Mr. Boulerice has come out with a statement. From the LPC, except for its LEADER and his BLINDLY PRO ISRAEL statemetn (and again, I remind you, I am Jewish, and hence it isn't about the religion of Israelis but the actions of THEIR leaders), the silence from the rest of the party is DEAFENING.

There won't be any major criticism of Israel by any of the main federal parties or their leaders.  Harper has become so stridently pro-Israel that he smears and intimidates everyone else into silence.  There's not much chance of that changing before the next election.  Hopefully we can get Harper out of office in 2015 and then gradually return Canada to its previous position of having a more balanced foreign policy.

Conservatives lash out savagely at anyone who dares question anything that Israel does.  A few weeks ago, former Liberal MP Omar Alghabra (who is running in 2015) expressed concern for the civilian casualties in Gaza and was raked over the coals by the CPC and the CPC HQ also used it to accuse Justin Trudeau of being anti-Israel.

In the 2011 election, the CPC & their Mount Royal candidate Saulie Zajdel even tried to smear Irwin Cotler of being anti-Israel to try and win the Mount Royal riding.

Harper & the Conservatives have become completely unhinged on this issue.

Unionist wrote:

Chantal Hébert: [url=http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014/08/08/unease_growing_in_thomas_m... growing in Thomas Mulcair's NDP ranks[/url]

 

Oh and Debater, if Justin continues to slavishly follow Harper's ass-licking love for Netanyahu, I pray that he fucks off and dies. In either order.

My words may have been spoken in anger. People were being slaughtered. But I'm still waiting for some scintilla of progress in Canada's policy. Anything would be better than nothing.