http://induecourse.ca/lessons-for-the-left-from-olivia-chows-faltering-c...
Interesting take on Oliva Chow's campaign. I've heard from some people she's running too "centrist" of a camaign, this guy claims she's running too "left" of one. Thoughts?
Lessons for the left from Olivia Chow’s faltering campaign
Sun, 2014-09-28 16:24
#1
Lessons for the left from Olivia Chow’s faltering campaign
Sun, 2014-09-28 22:22
#2
montrealer58
We all look up to "The leader" to solve our problems, which is a basic flaw in our system. People refuse to get involved, and then complain when things don't go their way. The Liberals and the Conservatives have all the money behind them, so they don't need to do much to get free publicity. The money is not going to like things which would cost it, so they are always going to try and marginalize the Left.
People on the Left need to up the ante. If we are not in their faces, we will be ignored.
Mon, 2014-09-29 04:39
#3
The Liberals have nowhere near as much money as the Conservatives.
Mon, 2014-09-29 07:46
#4
Let's not derail the thread. Let's keep on Olivia Chow and the authors stipuations as to why her campaign is faltering.
Mon, 2014-09-29 09:28
#5
Steve Paikin wrote a blog post two months PRIOR to Olivia announcing her run for Mayor, and why she would be the underdog in the race.
This was when she was topping the polls.
He wrote she would have a very tough time and explained why.
http://theagenda.tvo.org/blog/agenda-blogs/why-olivia-chow-underdog-toro...
Mon, 2014-09-29 11:07
#6
That blog piece from the opening post by Heath is interesting. I hope to digest it later, but the Chow campaign is just an illustrating point. In other words, the blog post is probably overkill for talking about the Chow campaign, and may also divert attention from the essentials.
I think Paikin hit it on the money. Here's a perhaps more expanded/hopeful way of putting it:
If you are a straight up left politician, you can make it in local politics just as you are. But on a bigger stage, you are going to have to expand your appeal. "Going centrist" is one way of doing this. The left tends to see amything that even looks like it [to themselves] as proof of the 'sell out".
This leads them to some robotic thinking that if said politicians would just be true to being left, the New Jerusalem would be within reach. [As if proof that Path A (going centrist) does not work, means Path B is going to work. Right!]
To my mind, at a minimum, whatever else is also required, left politicians must have a lot of talent and or charisma to broaden their appeal. Jack Layton had that. Olivia does not.
I met Jack Layton when he came to Nova Scotia very early in his leadership bid. I got to watch him for hours. In fact, I asked almost no questions so I could just watch. [And others were asking the kind of questions required to put him through the paces.]
I came to the conclusion that I didnt think he was some I would like as a friend [which based on things I heard later may have been premature], but that he had what was required to connect and move people.
Mon, 2014-09-29 11:35
#7
In our hyper-partisan media-driven non-democratic electoral system, people aren't allowed to do anything except respond to pollsters, give money, and vote every few years.
That's why we need to talk about things like the charm, charisma, accent, attitude, in short, marketability of the leader or candidate.
That's why what politicians are perceived as promising is more important than what they actually do.
That's why pundits (like the genius who wrote the OP) never question why policies and platforms are cooked up (and changed) in secret, and presented full-blown to the masses - and why, in a supposedly modern society, without a hint of shame or irony, they can write things like this:
... appealing to people’s altruism does not provide a very strong basis for building an electoral majority.
What a poor excuse for "democracy".
So, that's my lesson for the left. Get out of the game. It's rigged. Organize from below. Let people meet, decide what they need, and start working for it in a myriad of ways - electoral politics unfortunately being one of them. Then representatives will emerge from those struggles, as will demands and goals and methodologies. That's the only way real change has ever happened in history.
Oh yeah, and don't underestimate people. Don't assume you're the bigshot leftist and no one else gets it. The truth is often the opposite.
Mon, 2014-09-29 12:56
#8
I just read Steve Paikin's piece, posted above, for the first time. He articulates nicely what I feared would be Chow's problems. Shallow support based on recognition, placing too much emphasis on being not Ford, asssuming most of the elctorate was with her on the issues, and inability to articulate her positions convincingly.
Regrettably, this all looks prescient at the moment.
I expressed the hope that Chow wd stay put. I thought she would lose for mayor and leave her seat vulnerable in the by-election (deja vu Judy W -L in Winnipeg). I suspect she was flattered into running by people with designs on her federal seat.
Although I will vote for her it is without much enthusiasm. She seemed to think the election would simply fall into her lap. Toronto has never had a leftist majority so it was inevitable that a more right-wing alternative would emerge.
I really question her tactical ability. She did everything she could to deliver the nomination to a particular candidate without obvious standing in the community and then chose to remain neutral in the by-election when it looked like he was a loser.
This killed my enthusiasm for her, such as it was. I know it also bothered a number of other New Democrats of my acquaintance.
Candidacies based on name recognition and shallow qualifications often stumble. Let's hope Justin Trudeau has a similar experience.
Mon, 2014-09-29 13:17
#9
Huffington Post has just written "Why Olivia Chow Will Lose in October"
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/jordan-whelan/olivia-chow-election_b_589762...
Mon, 2014-09-29 13:54
#10
Lesson: Don't do whatever [url=https://twitter.com/globalnewsto/status/516645742962679808]this[/url] was.
Mon, 2014-09-29 13:58
#11
I remember a more than a few people mentioning (before the 2011 breakthrough) that they would have preferred Olivia as leader over Jack (while recognizingthat she doesn't speak french).
Mon, 2014-09-29 14:15
#12
Tory, Chow Diverge on Funding Pride if QuAIA allowed to March
http://www.cjnews.com/canada/tory-chow-diverge-funding-pride-if-quaia-al...
"Until the issue of city funding for the annual Pride Festival and its tolerance for the group Queers Against Israeli Apartheid (QUAIA) came up, a Sept 19 debate between Toronto mayoral candidates John Tory and Olivia Chow, hosted by The Friends of Simon Wiesenthal Center for Holocaust Studies, (FSWC) was quite subdued.
But when asked whether the city should continue funding Pride despite numerous Jewish groups' objections to QuAIA's participation in its parade, the two candidates diverged. Tory said he's side against funding Pride if QuAIA is allowed to take part, while Chow said she wouldn't vote to yank funding.
Chow said that, while she doesn't support QuAIA, it isn't fair to pull Pride's funding...
Held at the downtown law firm Dentons Canada LLP, the debate was moderated by FSWC president and CEO Avi Benolo and featured questions posed by Benolo and members of the audience, consisting of senior FSWC members, its boards of directors and governors, and the organization's top donors.
Tory pledged to ensure that the Jewish community gets a lot of support from Toronto Police when it comes to dealing with security in places like synagogues.
Chow talked about the importance of calling out hate speech for what it is, instead of using the excuse of 'freedom of speech'. In addition to issues concerning human rights and anti-Semitism, the candidates fielded questions about more general city issues...
On a more personal note, Benolo said, 'I'm looking for a mayor who will speak out when there's an Al Quds Day rally or a Queers Against Israeli Apartheid march or when you see hate on University campuses...someone who will step out and speak against it. I think that's really important and has not been addressed sufficiently."
Mon, 2014-09-29 15:26
#13
She deserves more credit than being prone to flattery or that it would fall into her lap.
There are lots of other reasons for choices besides politics per se. Not leat among them for Olivia would be that given a choice, there a hundred personal reasons to get out of federal politics. and simply the necessity to be in Ottawa for someone still very rooted in Toronto.
And just living with Jack's shadow rather than Jack. Yes, they did the Toronto scene togehter too, but not like it was on the national stage.
And those are classic mistakes she made before and during the by-election, she has lots of company in that.
Last of all and most of all- Olivia's qualifications are not shallow. And she was not just running on name recogntion. With the benefit of hindsight- it was maybe a bit late in life, or not good for someone not at 100%, to expect to pull everything together. Maybe it was only going to work for a tireless campaigner. I do not personally think she is to be faulted for not being a tireless campaigner, or for not knowing that would be required for this battle.
Mon, 2014-09-29 18:06
#14
I suspect she was flattered into running by people with designs on her federal seat.
You mean Joe Cressy? Because he certainly seemed to feel entitled to her seat.
Candidacies based on name recognition and shallow qualifications often stumble. Let's hope Justin Trudeau has a similar experience.
Yes, let's hope that the one person who can beat Stephen Harper fails so that we can have the Conservatives in power for even longer.
Mon, 2014-09-29 18:28
#15
Debater, could you not turn this into another Trudeau vs NDP thread? Thanks.
Mon, 2014-09-29 18:53
#16
Might as well tell the sun not to shine, Tirade.
Mon, 2014-09-29 18:59
#17
Debater, could you not turn this into another Trudeau vs NDP thread? Thanks.
It's not me that did that. It was nicky that brought in the attack on Justin Trudeau. I just responded to what had already been posted.
Mon, 2014-09-29 19:45
#18
Debater, could you not turn this into another Trudeau vs NDP thread? Thanks.
It's not me that did that. It was nicky that brought in the attack on Justin Trudeau. I just responded to what had already been posted.
Trudeau is a big boy, I'm sure he can handle a few negative comments on a message board, so you don't need to impulsively respond and derail another thread.
Mon, 2014-09-29 20:24
#19
Lesson: Don't do whatever [url=https://twitter.com/globalnewsto/status/516645742962679808]this[/url] was.
That was truly cringeworthy.
I started as a staunch Olivia supporter, and I still will vote for her. But I've been dodging her people. i don't want a lawn sign.
Tue, 2014-09-30 07:20
#20
Lesson: Don't do whatever [url=https://twitter.com/globalnewsto/status/516645742962679808]this[/url] was.
Tue, 2014-09-30 09:19
#21
Olivia Chow made some mistakes in her campaign.
First, she didn't have a main set of issues that matched the priorities of Torontonians. On transit, she blew it when she originally gave the Downtown Relief (Subway) Line proposal a low priority. That decision released some transit supporters to look elsewhere. She eventually did put it back as a priority only after realizing that she was losing support from transit advocates.
Next, other issues she advocated such as providing funding for breakfast programs, after school programs, and tree canopies; were not priorities among many Toronto voters.
She had a smorgasbord of issues whereas John Tory had prioritized his issues. There are flaws in Mr. Tory's transit proposals. However, he has organized them and other main issues that voters can understand.
One of Ms. Chow's campaign volunteers, Warren Kinsella, made a comment that John Tory's SmartTrack proposal was segregationist. Perhaps, Mr. Kinsella's choice of word was not appropriate, it was Ms. Chow's handling of the situation that created more problems for her. If Mr. Kinsella or his Daisy Group company were being paid by the Chow campaign, she should have come up front about it. She insisted on describing Mr. Kinsella as some volunteer (like someone who licks envelopes for the campaign).
Her language difficulties did become evident in the debates and other places on her campaign. Yes, people do make grammatical mistakes. However, her lack of confidence when speaking at the debates and her over-use of notes displayed her hesitancy to voters. Unfortunately for her, people will vote against her for the minute reasons.
Unfortunately for progressive supporters, people latched onto Olivia Chow before other left-of-centre candidates had a chance to throw their hats into the mayoral race.
Tue, 2014-09-30 10:12
#22
It's a little disheartening in the broader political context, but Toronto amply confirms that a person can be a complete buffoon and still enjoy a measure of support, with or without having a little populist charisma going for them. It’s on the federal scene that this rule of thumb couldn’t be made more explicit.
Tue, 2014-09-30 11:23
#23
It's a little disheartening in the broader political context, but Toronto amply confirms that a person can be a complete buffoon and still enjoy a measure of support, with or without having a little populist charisma going for them. It’s on the federal scene that this rule of thumb couldn’t be made more explicit.
And the voters who are supporting Ford would label Slumberjack one of the 'elitists' that they fight against. These voters that the Ford camp aligned with generally don't vote in municipal elections, and tend to be lower educated and a lower economic status.
It is a Us against Them theme that the Fords have exploited so successfully, against statements like Slumberjack have written.
Tue, 2014-09-30 11:38
#24
Why the third person? I'm right here. Is is your argument that the statement is without merit?
Tue, 2014-09-30 12:24
#25
Slumberjack I'm just using your statement as an example, Anytime the Fords are critized they successfully use it as a wedge issue of them against the elitist. As they say they are for the real people.
I'm not saying YOU are an elitist. But the Fords label everybody and anybody as an elitist who critize them.
Tue, 2014-09-30 12:55
#26
Catchfire
Hahahaha SJ was talking about Chow, terry!
Tue, 2014-09-30 13:28
#27
Hahahaha SJ was talking about Chow, terry!
but Toronto amply confirms that a person can be a complete buffoon and still enjoy a measure of support, with or without having a little populist charisma going for them.
You mean Slumberjack thinks Olivia Chow is a buffoon?
Tue, 2014-09-30 15:30
#28
Catchfire
That was the implication from the napkin stunt. Although personaly I found it pretty funny.
Tue, 2014-09-30 15:54
#29
When someone mentions the words 'buffoon' and 'populist' I assume they are talking about the Fords!
Tue, 2014-09-30 16:19
#30
Catchfire
I think that was the undergirding of SJ's wry joke.
Now that I have killed humour through overexplaining, as is my job, I will go back to my usual practice of censorship and suppression.
Tue, 2014-09-30 16:22
#31
Shes resorting to buffoonery to steal away Ford supporters I guess
Tue, 2014-09-30 17:26
#32
Just as the NDP 43 wrote an open letter to Andrea Horwath, Now Magazine has written an Open Letter to Olivia Chow with advice on how to boost her flagging campaign.
Tue, 2014-09-30 17:39
#33
Wed, 2014-10-01 11:02
#34
Just as the NDP 43 wrote an open letter to Andrea Horwath, Now Magazine has written an Open Letter to Olivia Chow with advice on how to boost her flagging campaign.
There is no comparison - the column in NOW magazine has constructive advice from people who clearly think that Olivia Chow is the only acceptable choice for mayor and that Tory/Ford would be catastrophic for the city.
The so-called "NDP 34" (about 29 of whom have never even had any connection to the NDP) where just shitting on Andrea Horwath and openly trying to rpmote the Ontario Liberals
Wed, 2014-10-01 11:06
#35
First, she didn't have a main set of issues that matched the priorities of Torontonians. On transit, she blew it when she originally gave the Downtown Relief (Subway) Line proposal a low priority. That decision released some transit supporters to look elsewhere. She eventually did put it back as a priority only after realizing that she was losing support from transit advocates.
Well actually Chow's policies are about 100% in lockstep with what "transit advocates" have been pushing for (ie: LRTs, Transit City, more buses, no to Scarborough subway white elephant) - the problem is that the transit policies that experts and stakeholders and advocates know make the most sense don't always lend themselves to demagogic slogans or back of a cocktail napkin maps favoured by john Tory.
Wed, 2014-10-01 11:12
#36
Just as the NDP 43 wrote an open letter to Andrea Horwath, Now Magazine has written an Open Letter to Olivia Chow with advice on how to boost her flagging campaign.
And Olivia Chow has replied:
[url=http://www.nowtoronto.com/news/story.cfm?content=199837]Olivia Chow responds to NOW editor and publisher Michael Hollett’s open letter[/url]
Wed, 2014-10-01 16:00
#37
More bad news for Olivia. The most recent Forum poll shows she is even losing ground to traditional NDP voters, and they are going to Doug Ford!
Those polled who identify as NDP voters, the majority say they will back Ford, at 36%. While only 31% of NDP voters say they are backing Chow. 25% of NDP voters say they support Tory
http://poll.forumresearch.com/data/TO%20Horserace%20News%20Release%20%28...
Wed, 2014-10-01 16:13
#38
More bad news for Olivia.
But good news for NDP/Chow-hater "terrytowel" whose sole raison d'etre in life is gloating over bad news for progressives and getting excited at the idea of Toronto electing a rightwing conservative mayor.
Wed, 2014-10-01 16:19
#39
Stockholm again had to flag above post as a personal attack against me.
Wed, 2014-10-01 16:51
#40
I consider your constant gloating and gushing over rightwing John Tory leading the Toronto mayoralty race and your bizarre personal hatred of Olivia Chow constitutes a personal attack on the people of Toronto...but if you want to go crying to the authorities because I hurt your feelings - go right ahead "Frankly Scarlett, i don't give a damn!"
I actually care about some substantive issues - not just gloating about progressives losing and rightwing conservatives winning.
This is an online community for PROGRESSIVES - so I'm not sure why you are shocked that people react negatively to the constant promotion of a rightwing conservative politician like John Tory
Wed, 2014-10-01 17:02
#41
I think Tory is more centrist than right wing, he certainly wasnt right wing enough for the Provincial PC party
Wed, 2014-10-01 17:13
#42
He was rightiwng enough for them to make him leader in the first place and he was rightwing enough to campaign for and support Stephen harper and Mike Harris and he was rightwing enough to have made hefty donations to both Rob and Doug Ford in 2010 and support their entire agenda without question until the day Ford was caught smoking crack. Look back at Tory's platform when he ran for Premier in 2007 - it was pretty orthodox rightwing stuff you would expect from a conservative.
There is a mythology being put forth that Tory is somesort of cuddly moderate...just because he grew up in Rosedale and is a corporate CEO and attends the odd play or foreign film - people figure he must be patrician with a sense of noblesse oblige.
Wed, 2014-10-01 17:14
#43
*shrugs* Maybe hes changed, much like the NDP has moved to the centre
Wed, 2014-10-01 17:29
#44
if you want to go crying to the authorities because I hurt your feelings - go right ahead "Frankly Scarlett, i don't give a damn!"
You are not hurting my feeling, but you are violating the basic rules of this board with these personal attacks against me.
Again for the fifth time I have had to report your post to the mods as a personal attack.
I consider your constant gloating and gushing over rightwing John Tory leading the Toronto mayoralty race and your bizarre personal hatred of Olivia Chow constitutes a personal attack on the people of Toronto.
For the SIXTH TIME please come up with examples where I gush over John Tory policies.
I've asked you SIX TIMES to come up with quotes I've said anything positive about his policies.
All I get from you is silence.
So either put up of shut up.
Wed, 2014-10-01 17:36
#45
*shrugs* Maybe hes changed, much like the NDP has moved to the centre
Why give him the benefit of the doubt - he supported Rob Ford for mayor very recently and he pledges that if elected mayor he will contract out city services and destroy decent payoing jobs and his transit plan is complete garbage - what more does someone have to support to be considered rightwing - or have the Ford's succeeded in making people who used to be considered extremly rightwing look just moderately rightwing.
Wed, 2014-10-01 17:40
#46
For the SIXTH TIME please come up with examples where I gush over John Tory policies.
I've asked you SIX TIMES to come up with quotes I've said anything positive about his policies.
If you vote for someone and urge others to vote for that person - you are expressing support for their policies and everything they stand for. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming that you support the policies of the people you vote for. I will refrain from insulting you by implying that you would vote for someone whose policies you reject.
Wed, 2014-10-01 17:45
#47
For the SIXTH TIME please come up with examples where I gush over John Tory policies.
I've asked you SIX TIMES to come up with quotes I've said anything positive about his policies.
If you vote for someone and urge others to vote for that person - you are expressing support for their policies and everything they stand for.
Again I said whoever is leading the polls come election day has my vote.
My ballot question is Ford. Yes or No. And I say NO.
For me it is not policies, it is about getting the Fords out of office once and for all.
Chow or Tory, I don't care which one. As long as it is not Ford.
And I haven't changed my narrative.
Plus I told you a few weeks ago if Chow manages to get herself at the top of the polls, she has my vote.
I'm not the only one in the city who is voting strategically. Almost 45% of Toronto is voting for the person best to stop Ford.
Next.
Wed, 2014-10-01 17:47
#48
I don't believe you. I think your only goal from the start has been to express contempt for Olivia Chow (for some inexplicable reason) and if it was a close race between her and Doug Ford - I think you would secretely vote for Ford to stop Chow. The only thing that seems to motivate you politically is defeating progressive politicians with any link to the NDP and then gloating about it.
You post on a progressive board and then you openly say that you "don't care" whether Toronto elects a rightwing conservative like John Tory or a progressive like Olivia Chow...why do you bother posting here at all if progressive politics and issues are so irrelevant to you?
Wed, 2014-10-01 17:50
#49
I don't believe you.
But my narrative hasn't changed since day one. I am part of the 45% of Toronto that just wants the Fords out of office, and are willing to vote for anyone who can do it.
I would vote for the 19 year old running, I'd vote for the dominatrix, I'd vote for the clown. I'd vote for ANYONE, as long as it is not Ford.
And my narrative has not changed since the start of this election.
You post on a progressive board and then you openly say that you "don't care" whether Toronto elects a rightwing conservative like John Tory or a progressive like Olivia Chow...why do you bother posting here at all if progressive politics and issues are so irrelevant to you?
ANYBODY would be better than the Fords. I would NEVER vote for any of the Fords.
Wed, 2014-10-01 17:51
#50
YOu were dead silent for six months when Chow was the leading candidate to defeat Ford according to the polls - then the moment one poll came out showing Tory ahead all of a sudden you popped up like a jack in the box drooling with glee and gloating over Tory's surge and hissing like a serpent that everyone now HAS to vote for Tory to stop his identical twin Doug Ford...and this after months/years of spreading rumours and innuendo about Olivia Chow...so sorry if i question your motives.
Here is a tough question for you to answer honestly - what if Olivia Chow and John Tory were the only two candidates on the ballot - who then?
Wed, 2014-10-01 17:52
#51
YOu were dead silent for six months when Chow was the leading candidate to defeat Ford according to the polls
Because I was too busy commenting on the provincial election and the federal by-elections. The mayors race back then was non-exsistent.
Once that was over, I started commenting on the mayors race.